This Game is a Star Wars Themed Online Casino

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by FrgMstr, Nov 22, 2017.

  1. dreadcthulhu

    dreadcthulhu [H]Lite

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    If in-game loot boxes are gambling, wouldn't the same also apply to various collectible card games, like Pokemon or Magic the Gathering? Both are pay money to receive a random item(s) out of a set of possible items. And certain cards in those games make winning easier, just like some "pay-to-win" items you can get in loot boxes. Honestly, I think better protections against children being able to spend money without their parents knowing, or better refund policies, would make more sense than considering loot boxes to be gambling.
     
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  2. jedijeb13

    jedijeb13 Limp Gawd

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    "Hawaii State Representative Chris Lee"

    You would think that Count Dooku would know how to properly say the phrase.
     
  3. chaos4u

    chaos4u Limp Gawd

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    they already have a fix for this , any game that has loot box mechanisms or other similar gambling type of progression just slap the ol ESRB Adults Only 18+ rating on it . bam problem solved .

    if companies want to do loot boxes in their games then they will have to take the appropriate hit to the rating and suffer the loss of sales ( but hey the loot boxes will make up for the loss of sale) and the public will look twice at the box wondering what makes it 18+
     
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  4. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo [H]ardness Supreme

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    The Kid - "The gun was just laying in the street. It was there so I just picked it up. My friends and I were playing with it and it just accidentally went off and one of my friends was shot in the head" Cop - "You know Son, it's all about "personal responsibility" ... you shouldn't have picked the gun up." So not the best example but the point remains. If the gun wasn't in the street the kids would have never found the damn thing in the first place. And that's why this Hawaiian Press Release and greatly needed regulation / legislation is needed to keep those loot boxes off the street.

    This bad press alone is going to have absolutely incredible positive effects and will no doubt cause many companies to abandon these plans. Thank god.

    If the loot boxes are not in the game .... kids cannot steal their parents credit card to buy loot boxes. People that are not as responsible as maybe you or I would not be tempted to spend bill money or Christmas money on loot boxes. Game developers can build a much better system to make additional income. Blizzard and World of Warcraft come to mind. I've read they make an incredible amount of additional money selling Pets and Mounts, Name Changes, Cosmetic items, and other additional services all from within and outside the game.

    There was literally nothing stopping those predatory greedy bastards over at EA from selling weapon skins, cosmetic addons, game services such as titles or other perks that leave the core game alone but allow customization and individuality within the game. Loot boxes just allows them a MASSIVE amount of money upfront. In a way, EA is cheating at their own game instead of grinding out good will with their customers.

    Personally responsibility starts with these game companies. Not the parents or the children or the end user. They don't get to make a system that relies on gambling, pass that buck and then blame it on everyone else after the fact. that's not how any of these works.

    These predatory loot boxes are destroying IP, public trust, the very fabric of what it means to play and enjoy a video game. Everyone here remembers how this cancer spread into mobile games. Amazon, Apple, others have had to refund millions and millions of dollars to Families that fell victim to these practices. They are such radical changes taking place within the gaming industry that over night all of our games become money hungry casinos with a "video game" built around it. We all know this is true. And there is no way any of want this. For ourselves or for our Family, Friends, Children or for future generations.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
  5. mbelue

    mbelue Limp Gawd

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    I was thinking about that before and the difference I see is as follows.
    The Pokemon company can basically print as many cards as they want, although at some point there are diminishing returns. So at the end of a printing run there is a hard number of Commons Uncommons and Rares.
    Roughly calculateable by watching circulation.

    The loot boxes don't really have physical limitations on production. They can be produced indefinitely. So the rate at which any Star Card drops isn't finite and can be changed at any time.

    In these systems without oversight the drop rate can be manipulated like the CSGO skin gambling website. They can feed you the same 40 worthless duplicates forever and it's practically impossible to "prove" they are intensionally nerfing drop rates.

    Likewise they can see PewDPie streaming to a couple thousand people and flip a switch and make his drop rate extremely successful. Manipulating a system like this for public interest is beyond easy, is designed to be done as such.
     
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  6. otherweeb

    otherweeb Gawd

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    2 pages and no 'it's a tarp' meme pic? Have we all grown up?
     
  7. shad0w4life

    shad0w4life Gawd

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    Wtf

    My phone etc all require me to put in my credit card, don't give 5 year olds credit cards....

    Why the heck did he save is CC info on his phone anyways, phones are for calling and texting, what the heck do you need to buy so often you have your CC saved for instant purchases.
     
  8. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard as it Gets

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    It was saved to his Google Store account as he uses Project Fi as his cell service. He also does Android Pay and buys movies from the Google Store. She didn't have to enter a CC as it was already there.
     
  9. mbelue

    mbelue Limp Gawd

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    Reoccurring purchases. YouTube Red, YouTube TV, Play music. Just part of Google play.
    I'd guess Apple has an overly expensive inferior version of the same.;)

    All joking aside every parent does something that someone else can nitpick and criticize them for.

    It's easy to sit back and say buyer beware but circumstances do matter.
     
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  10. Aireoth

    Aireoth 2[H]4U

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    It is not dumb, you have no idea what your talking about. These systems are designed to take advantage of the same reward mechanisms as gambling, companies like EA hire specialists to insure their games are as addictive as possible, they study the amount of reward required to create a cycle of repeat customers, this is absolutely gambling, its targeting children, and it stinks.
     
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  11. bugleyman

    bugleyman [H]ard|Gawd

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    Developers aren't overworked because games don't cost enough. Developers are overworked because corporations demand ever-increasing short-term profits with no regard for sustainability or human well-being.

    Which really just means that developers are in the same boat as most of the rest of us.
     
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  12. Gigus Fire

    Gigus Fire 2[H]4U

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    What you're saying doesn't make any sense.
    No one is saying that the kid in the story should have personal responsibility. It was the parent's fault for handing a phone to a kid to be a babysitter while the phone had direct access to his credit card. That's where the personal responsibility comes into play. It would be the same as if a parent handed a loaded gun to a kid. It's an awful idea and you should just never do it. The consequences for both are awful.

    You do not need the government to determine if loot boxes should be in a game or not. The market should do that. The parents on the other hand should make a decision to buy these games or not. That's where personal responsibility comes into play. If you buy these shit games for your kids, you'd better know about what the game is about. You'd better know that the game encourages the kid to buy extra crap. No one forces you to buy these games.

    You know what would make these "predatory practices" go away? If people stopped buying into them and refused to play. That is literally the only way for this shit to stop.
     
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  13. viper1152012

    viper1152012 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Funny, everything published I have seen and the industry insiders I know basically point to the marketing budget swallowing up over half the game cost.

    If it was a well built enagaing game it would sell great anyway.

    They could also try marketing to the most effective outlets instead.

    Plus from what I have heard BF2 is a good and is worth the dollars.
     
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  14. c@Nc3r

    c@Nc3r Limp Gawd

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    The market will not fix itself. I vote with my wallet and so do tons of others but the children are who EA and others are banking on. Kids will not vote with their wallet. Kids do not want to be the last one to have a game even if that game is filled with bugs and pay walls and micro transactions. Plus when every company has gone public they will all do the same things to appease the share holders. So if it is legal you can bet they are all doing it. It sucks watching a hobby/pastime degrade to appoint where you have to give it up. And the companies don't give a damn if they lose a sell from you because they know every day another consumer is born and will replace you soon enough.
     
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  15. bugleyman

    bugleyman [H]ard|Gawd

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    Those who know a little -- but not a lot -- about economics often appear to believe the market will fix everything. But if one goes beyond the basics, one quickly understands that a free market isn't a panacea. In practice, the best system we've found is a (mostly) free market with its worst excesses held in check by regulation. This used to be commonly referred to as a mixed economy, and while I was growing up, it was generally understood that was the system we had in the United States. Of course, nowadays it seems you're either a pedal-to-the-metal, 100% ideologically pure capitalist, or you're socialist scum. (What can I say? We're not fond of nuance here in the USA. =P)

    That isn't to say that in this case the government isn't going too far. Personally, I'm inclined to believe it is, because I just don't see why the government needs to get involved.

     
  16. mavrocket

    mavrocket [H]ard|Gawd

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    This is getting out of hand. Just ambulance chasing politicians and the sheep that follow in their wake. Personal responsibility people!

    Mario Bros. 3 had "gambling" via the Toad houses along the way to the castle in each world.

    Nobody was bitching about those... oh right, we weren't a culture of victims back in those days!
     
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  17. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    I don't have a problem with DLC. I buy them when I think a given DLC will be worth the money. This is admittedly a rare occurrence. However, the gambling boxes for money are horseshit.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
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  18. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    Wow. That is the dumbest defense of loot boxes that I have ever seen. I did not think it was possible to make such a stupid and totally oblivious defense.
     
  19. mavrocket

    mavrocket [H]ard|Gawd

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    Wow, that was the dumbest statement about a post that had nothing to do with defending lootboxes...

    Where was I defending lootboxes again?
     
  20. Logan321

    Logan321 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Considering the bulk packs of virtual currency frequently cost significantly more than the whole game, maybe "micro" is the wrong word? ;)
     
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  21. drklu

    drklu 2[H]4U

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    I don't really care if they want to include DLC or even loot boxes, its when they change the game in order to push those sales that piss me off. I wish more publishers just put out a good game that can be sold on its own merit versus using these kind of tactics to push sales. Witcher 3 comes to mind.
     
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  22. HeadRusch

    HeadRusch [H]ard|Gawd

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    Your Wish Is Granted

    4b726dfb-2a74-4d86-b27d-f79532da90dc_1.e24a33c39657dfa95b50a292f1d8acc1.jpeg
     
  23. Clovis559

    Clovis559 [H]Lite

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    I think the real problem is all these kids with credit cards... because there's no way there is a parent involved in their bad decisions.
     
  24. HockeyJon

    HockeyJon [H]ard|Gawd

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    I don't disagree. As a gamer, I don't like the pay-to-win model. How do I respond? I don't play pay-to-win games. There are plenty of games out there that I enjoy playing that don't use this model. If Star Wars Battlefront decides to use this model, I won't buy the game. If gamers decide they won't buy the game, the model disappears. The model exists because people are willing to pay. That's all I'm saying.
     
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  25. HockeyJon

    HockeyJon [H]ard|Gawd

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    Oh ok, I didn't realize that loot boxes in a video game were the same thing as heroin. Thanks for setting everyone straight that heroin and Battlefront II loot boxes are, in fact, the same thing.
     
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  26. kring

    kring Limp Gawd

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    This is going to break the gaming community. I'll toss in my 2 cents.

    1.) it's a shame this is storming and rallying around SWBF2 - It's an amazing game worth ever penny of $60, and it's just released. People are having trouble separating the game from the politics
    2.) Please - is this really what we need government spending a billion on chasing? is there absolutely no better way to spend their time?
    3.) Since when is "progression" in a game bad? it's been this way since the first PC games after Pong... Ever heard of "Leveling Up"
    4.) Every single person complaining about micro transactions are the ones who actually buy micro transactions for purposes of pay-to-win. Since they are not required to unlock 100% (or level up) they are purely optional.
    5.) Since when have crappy games succeeded because of microtransactions, and when have good games failed for it? none that I'm aware of? if the game sucks, people don't buy it.. sure some pre-orderers loose a bit - but most inteligent and active gamers wait for the first round of reviews, or if they are commited they pre-order really early for $32. rather then pay $60
    6.) Why isn't Blizzard getting dragged through this crap-storm, they basically took loot to the next level.
    7.) Remind me again what the difference between a loot box and a reward for getting to the next level is? I have to click a box to get the reward? that all the fuss????

    Again, it's a great game, one of the best I've played in 10, maybe 20 years... it's simply fun, beautiful, creative and satisfying.

    and I don't mind having to "Level Up" for free.... as it has always done.
     
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  27. Vercinaigh

    Vercinaigh Gawd

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    Addiction, look it up, it's a thing and they are preying on it.
     
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  28. SomeoneElse

    SomeoneElse [H]ard|Gawd

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    You miss the whole point of PAYING to level up versus just playing the game. This is the PAY-TO-WIN model. If you don't pay extra money they made it insanely long to get the unlocks. The "old model" you speak of was based on achievements which anyone can obtain if they so choose BUT don't have to pay in order to do so. That is a big difference.
     
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  29. SomeoneElse

    SomeoneElse [H]ard|Gawd

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    You didn't pay real money to "play the slots" in the game....now real money is involved and that changes the whole discussion. Apples and oranges.
     
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  30. otherweeb

    otherweeb Gawd

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  31. Jumpy-B-L

    Jumpy-B-L n00b

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    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-brain-gets-addicted-to-gambling/

    The brain is a helluva thing. Video game publishers are targeting the same pleasure centers and they KNOW it.
     
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  32. HeadRusch

    HeadRusch [H]ard|Gawd

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    The rate at which you ac
    ...add in the insult that it will take the average gamer more time to unlock the entire game than EA is likely to actually keep the game up on their servers to play.... :)
     
  33. Dillirium

    Dillirium Limp Gawd

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    nah, no one would buy it. Very limited folks at least. They made a profit before.
     
  34. Ur_Mom

    Ur_Mom I'm Not Serious

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    Rebel scum. I grew up part of the Galactic Empire.

    I'll easily pay for a great game. I don't buy DLC or use microtransactions. I miss out on part of the game that way, they fragment their user base. There are many times when I'll skip a game and come back to it when it's GOTY edition with all included DLC. Buy it used for $5-10. That's a missed sale by EA, which is what they fear about piracy.

    There are games that I will buy day 1, full MSRP. Last of Us (can't wait for the new one), Doom, Elder Scrolls (not the 15th release of Skyrim, though...), etc.. They are just great games that I know won't disappoint.

    If games are getting more expensive to make and they can't bring in as much money, lower development costs. Go for a different voice actor, lower marketing costs, etc.. At my work, we can raise prices a little bit, but you can price yourself out and people won't buy your shit. This is what MT and DLC is doing. It's an added cost, and it's pricing some people out. They just don't want to buy the half baked game and have to pay to buy the rest of it.
     
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  35. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    I don't think DLC is a problem by itself. You can't expect game expansions to be released without monetary gains to incentivize companies like EA to produce them. I don't agree with paid DLC for multiplayer games as it does fracture the player base. However, single player DLC is an add on for a game you wouldn't ordinarily get and it's totally optional. I'm fine with that. DLC doesn't "ruin gaming" anymore than traditional expansion packs for games did. Microtransactions are another thing entirely. If it's cosmetic shit, then I don't care. I think many of us can agree that people should just vote with their wallets there. The biggest problem is gambling, which frankly I'm surprised hasn't become a bigger topic for law makers before now. I guess that's Star Wars' mass market appeal for you.
     
  36. kring

    kring Limp Gawd

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    But it's not paying to Level up or paying to win, you can pay if you want.. but you don't have to and it's still the same great $60 game.

    And for years it was about make progression so it lasts and I get a lot of time out of my game... that's what everyone begged for when AAA games were coming in at 6 hours of content..... so now there's a year of content and people are complaining? the progression system is to long and hard.... you want instant gratification or ability to "Pay"... making you a hypocrite.

    Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE who is up bent out of shape about this are hypocrites, chronic cheaters, pay-2-win supporters, band-wagon riders and ambulance chassing supporters.


    99.95% of all gamers are not the top level... most of us who have gaming history have hours a week, some hours a day... but the reality is we can't compete with those <1%'s who game for 20 hours a day. and we can't maintain that pace... WoW is the ultimate manifestation of it... and it's praised.. why is SWBF2 taking the heat for WoW's establishing the standard....the dedicated hardcore gamer dominate. I and all of you have to accept that. their hard effort and long hours, get them something to be proud of that they earned... higher levels, loot, rare items, dominance in the game..etc...

    WHY IS THAT BAD?

    SWBF2 came out 4 days ago - I put a lot of hours in and am like level 16... there are people at level 27, 35, 42 that I've seen out there fully loaded with all the gear... I still like and enjoy the game, and kill them just as much with my non-upgraded gun.


    Sorry but I'm calling all of you out - You are hypocrites and ill informed.... so enjoy the ride on this band-waggon, it's going straight to the outhouse for lunch... and thank you for dragging in politics and wasting our valuable tax dollars while you ride your crap-house ride.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
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  37. mavrocket

    mavrocket [H]ard|Gawd

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    You can buy boxes (once they turn it back on), but you don't have too. You get a daily login crate and earn them through playing otherwise.

    So it's not that different, they just added in the pay shortcut for the silly rich kids.
     
  38. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

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  39. mbelue

    mbelue Limp Gawd

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    Well that's an interesting perspective. Others disagreeing with you doesn't mean you can't like the game anyways.

    I was very excited about SWBF2 early this year. I could profess my enthusiasm for Star Wars and claim I would have bought it sans Pay-2-Win, but its a nothing argument.

    After the new came out there was ANY ability to purchase in game advantage for actual money not just in game currency, I swore it off.
    So did many others.
    EA wants to wait out the outcry with removal of real money transactions, which they admitted was a temporary measure.
    Its just not enough for people like me. I won't be purchasing this game until AFTER the micro-transactions come back AND there is ZERO in game advantage. Even then I'm likely to just skip it because as a consumer I've lost confidence in EA as a brand(truthfully that happened years ago) and can't believe whatever I purchase will be safe from these shenanigans.

    Sitting on the shelf next to me I've an original copy of Q3A, which I can pop in today and(after ALOT of work) play. I can set up my own dedicated server and play with other people. Same with my copy of Tribes or UT or a number of other games. I'm under no delusions of ownership, but I do have a very certain control over my experience.

    The critical difference I see with Battlefront 2 is the multiplayer isn't operable without EA's servers. I can't setup my own server without micro-transactions. I cannot lock myself away into a level playing field, so that portion of the game is useless to me. They wanna make people happy and shut folks like me up, give dedicated server software to users. Let us play outside the system of Pay-2-Win.

    I'm voting NO with my wallet, and if that makes me a hypocrite or ill-informed by some estimates fine but I'd rather you just called me biased, obsessive, or pedantic. Which'd be more accurate.
     
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  40. ZodaEX

    ZodaEX 2[H]4U

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    Wow is praised, sure. However it's hated and bad-mouthed just as much so I don't understand your point.