Thinking of a wet summer. Have $220 and need advice. (Water Cooling)

S

StrongBadia

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I just sold this semester's books and got about $220. I've been thinking for awhile about going to water cooling. I'm a complete newbie when it comes to anything other than air cooling. Is it worth it to go into water cooling with only a $220 investment? Will I get much better temps than I have now (~12C over ambient case idle, 22C load)?

If the answer to my question above is yes, than what parts are recommended and where should I buy them? Instructions would be nice too :) . Keep in mind I have a VERY crowded Lian Li PC60, so it would have to be able to fit with that setup. I'm not opposed to external setups though if done right.

My only other consideration is if I should save up and go with Phase Change cooling.

Thanks.
 
You can get a VERY nice setup for $220 I think. In terms of parts heres what I recomend. Either a White Water, or a RBX CPU waterblock (I would go with the WW, but thats just me).

Eheim 1250, or Danner Mag 3 pump

I would recomend a heatercore, but being new to this maybe you'd prefer to stick with a commercial watercooling radiator. In that case I would recomend D-Tek Procore.

You'll need a fan for the heatercore/rad. I would suggest a Panaflo 120mm fan, there are many opinions on this however, I just happen to like the panaflo's :)

When it comes to res's you have two options, either to buy a res, or to go with a T-line setup. I would suggest the T-Line because res's CAN leak, and they also cost money, where a T fitting will cost maybe $2.

For tubing, Tygon is the best, but also at a high cost premium (~2.50 per foot). Clearflex is almost just as good (its only disadvantage to the tygon is that it is not as flexible) but much cheaper, and I would recomend it.

You're going to want to buy a clamp for every connection in your setup. You have the options of nylon clamps, or steel worm drive clamps. I would recomend the steel worm drive clamps as they are made of steel, much more durable, and give me more piece of mind then the nylon counterparts. They can be found in any hardware store.

Other optional components include a GPU and/or Northbridge waterblock. If you want to overclock your video card, you might want to think about a GPU waterblock (Maze 4). I would recomend against the northbridge block, they are unnecessary, and will just result in reducing the flow to the other more critical waterblocks.

As for the case scenario I too have a Lian Li PC60 so let me attempt to give you some pointers with what I found. First off decide where you want to put your radiator. I have opted to put it at the top because my drive cage at the bottom is full of HD's heh. If you can, the bottom might be a better choice, whatever you do decide, take dimensions of that area in your case, and compare the dimensions of your prospective radiators to what you've measured to ensure it will fit when you buy it. Another reason I would suggest you opt for the no resevoir route is because of your space constraints. As for pump, personally I opted for a Danner Mag 3 because they are considerably smaller (lengthwise) then the Eheim 1250
(12.7x9.65.10.67cm vs 18x9.65x11.94cm, LxWxH)

When it comes to the size of tubing you want to use its a hard choice when using a small case like that (your options are 1/2" and 3/8" Inner diameter). 1/2" provides higher flowrates, but takes up some more space, and not as flexible. 3/8" has reduced flowrates, but is more space efficient. Its a judgement call here. If you have any questions about my suggestions just PM me, otherwise just get reading, there are many tutorials out there to explain what these parts are, how they work, how to set them up. I am sure you will enjoy this project though.
 
This makes the upgrade to a PC70 sound all the more appealing. Thanks for the advice. Anyone else with some opinions?
 
Since your case is tight you might want to think about building your own external box out of lexan or plexiglass.
 
i'm not sure if acascianelli is promoting kits or not there but IMHO they are a WASTE OF MONEY!!!!! The best kit still performs worse then the best air cooling solution. If you buy all the parts yourself though, and they are quality parts, you'll have a very cool CPU :)
 
Look on the for sale boards here and on anand.
Here's what I got:
Maze3 + hose clamps + assorted hose
Z-Chipset block
DD Radeon block
Heatercore
Water wetter
Algae stopper

I spent $139. I already had a pump, but for what's left you can get a very nice one. I think Imma have to buy a couple hold-down kits, and I'm researching a for better pumps. Other than that It'll be totally finished.
You could just check these these out.
 
Originally posted by HiTech-Hate
i'm not sure if acascianelli is promoting kits or not there but IMHO they are a WASTE OF MONEY!!!!! The best kit still performs worse then the best air cooling solution. If you buy all the parts yourself though, and they are quality parts, you'll have a very cool CPU :)
Click to expand...

a kit from swiftech, dangerden, or dtek performs much better than any air cooler. my koolance system performs at the same level as sp94 with a high cfm fan and im cooling the cpu/gpu/nb.
 
I would suggest the Swiftech MCP600 pump. It compact, quiet, and best of all, takes 12V power from a standard hard-drive connector. It'll save you the time and hassle of wiring an A/C pump into your setup.

For the block, WhiteWater is the only way to go.
 
Swiftech kits aren't all that bad. I started with one.

Basically the basic kit (with 80mm rad) is only good for non-OC cpu only cooling. The extreme kit (dual 120mm rad) might be better for OC'ing, but the rad looks kinda cheap.

Either way if you get a swiftech kit, one nice upgrade is moving to a heatercore. The DTek JR-120 or ProCore is a good choice.

Either way, i found the swiftech blocks to be decent, their only downside being 3/8ID tubing. It's not as bad as many make it out to be...on a bright side, 3/8 tubing is often easier to work with. Swiftech also has a new block that they just came out with. I might have to try it out :)

Koolance is basically quick and easy. Nothing great, but you also have retail chains handling them. Swiftech, DTek, and Dangerden all have better products, but often have to be bought online.
 
I'm a newb and am just finishing my first WC setup, having spent about $210.

I went Dangerden RBX, Hydor L30, Double Heatercore from DDen for the main components.

I made an external enclosure out of a tupperware-type bin at Walmart and used a smaller tupperware thingy for the reservoir. I have 2 x 120mm fans exhausting out of the main enclosure and drawing air through the heater core. I just finished the leak test and will assemble it tonight to start OCing my XPm2600+.

Costs:
$180 from DDen for the main components plus tubing and connectors
$14 at the Menards (hardware store) for extra tubing, hose barbs and Goop (watertight glue)
$6 at Walmart for reservoir and enclosure
$10 at Radio Shack for an in/off switch and wire to connect fan speed sensors back to the MB

I've put in about 10 hours of work putting it together (plus a couple of nights of leak testing) and have about 2 hours to go.

My advice?
#1 Do it. It is damn fun.
#2 Don't spend the whole wad up front. There will be 2-4 trips back to stores to buy extras that you will forget upfront. (As you can see above, I spent an added $30 going back to stores.)
 
SvdSinner,

Will you post pics of your setup, maybe in a new thread, I am on the verge of doing something like this and would love to see it.
 
It's a little overwhelming getting started when you have no background with the equipment. Is it as hard to setup as it sounds? The install sounds very complicated.

So basically, I will need to do an external setup because I have NO room inside my case for anything else. I know the exos is considered crap and will be a downgrade from what I have now, so what are my other options?
 
Strong, I started last year and I'm all into it. First of all, take it with patience, leak test the hell out of your system, and hold it at a relative position as it might be inside that case, i'm working with a PC68 and i actually did have an external unit worked fine, but now i'm "moving up" and going internal. Just have patience in everything, it's fun :).

As far as external, grab some plexiglass, want an external reservoir? I'm actualy selling one and a blue tube if you wanted to make one yourself. I've got pics if you want an example, lmk though, i'll have to go find em.

flip
 
I'm thinking I may get a new case and then go water instead of buying a stop-gap water solution. The new Lian Li PC-V2000 looks really swank.
 
Hmmm....

I'm always amazed at how people like sticking a knife into the Koolance product. Simple fact is that it DOES work extremely well. It puts all the heat outside the box, changes easily from system to system, and is extremely easy to install. If you can put together a system from scratch you will find it a piece of cake to install.

The issue of 1/4" tubing is a farce because the system was designed to work, from the ground up, with a small diameter tube. The reason they use bigger tubes in other systems is because it is difficult to get a pump with small tubing. Aquarium pumps are designed to move a lot of water at low pressure. Thus they are designed for 3/8-1/2" tubes.

The Koolance system is designed to run a high turbulence and a lower flow. You really can't compare apples with oranges here because the Koolance and the other systems on the market were not designed to run on the same parameters.

The latest Koolance blocks are made out of copper, are 21K gold plated, and have a very large amount of surface area (relative to their size) to conduct heat out of them. You can also put makeup on (or shave I suppose) with them due to the excellent finish applied before plating. In addition they also have swivel connectors and no longer use those metal clips, but rather use a compression fitting. Due to the design of the blocks they also cause a large amount of turbulence which is also quite beneficial in maximizing the amount of heat transferred to the H20 coolant medium. It doesn't get much better than that for a choice of thermal conductance materials :p
 
Yeah but from what I understand (and correct me if I'm wrong) the EXOS does not cool all that much better than good aircooling.
 
WRONG...

I'm currently running about 2.4ghz on a 2600+ in my ASUS A7N8X-Dlx board. I'm running the cpu about 1.9v, the AGP bus at 1.8v, the memory at 2.8v, and the NB and SB are running on a diet of 1.7v if memory serves me correctly. The CPU power supply chips got so hot I had to glue heatsinks on and eventually had to fashion an 80mm fan to directly blow on them! I also glued a HSF down to the SB to keep things copasetic.

I suppose the 2 WD Raptor drives running a RAID 0 array also help with the heat problem as well. It's going to be even more fun this weekend when I change over to 4 Raptors running a RAID 10 array. Unfortunately, pumping all that data through the CPU makes for more heat :eek:

I currently run the CPU and the NB on the EXOS, but am planning on adding the 9600 Pro this weekend into the circuit because it runs kind of hot (see stats in signature). When you start stacking 40-50 digital photographs at a time and manipulating them into one image it really loads the system down causing lots of heat.

With the EXOS running I get about 80-86*F on the LED readout and the BIOS reports about 90-96*F. That is a far cry from a stock 2600+ (with a custom made HSF) that ran at about 140*F on a nice day...
 
I'd recommend my setup to you,(see my sig) but not my rad housing, as it cost me as much for the housing unit for the rad as it did for my MB. The RBX,NB VGA Waterblock solution works well for me. The Rad cost me more 'cause I live in the wastelands/hinterlands of the earth (northern NY where everything gets trucked in from somewhere else far away...) but I understand that the '77 bonneville heater core can be had for as little as $18. I paid $28. The dannermag pump is working flawlessly. Temps at idle are 37 - 39 C depending on ambient air temp. Full load is 42C. There is a '77 bonneville guide that was posted here in a forum somewhere, But instead of desoldeing the tubes and soldering in barbs, I just cut the tubes short and clamped to them.
I had my rad housing built custom by a sheetmetal shop - so that's why it was so expensive (but looks soo good.. :) ). I went outside the case, which was an Antec SX1200 I had around.
 
Top nurse, just to let you know, I have seen plenty of 2400mhz overclocks with bartons on air....and I Seriously doubt that your custom heatsink performed as good as a thermalright sp-94 with a 92mm tornado on it......

And even if it is I get the same temps as you with a p4 @ 4ghz, 1.75vcore with a voltmodded video card putting out way more heat than a 9800xt with 1.85v running through its core.
 
buy parts, dont buy a kit from ANYONE, its a waste. you can do it, we are here to help, dont take the lazy/dumb way out.

Also, I have a PC601 which is even smaller than a PC60 and I did it no problem. Find my pics in the CC Gallery to see my top mounted rad.
 
Originally posted by Jiffylush
SvdSinner,

Will you post pics of your setup, maybe in a new thread, I am on the verge of doing something like this and would love to see it.
Click to expand...
Will do this evening. I just fired it up last night, and it is working GREAT. The only recommendations I would make is to buy a higher quality tupperware reservoire that keeps the lid on tighter. A couple of times during leak testing the lid popped off and made a mess while initially filling the system. My initial temperature readings are incredible but I haven't started harcore overclocking.
 
Koolance - Sorry - If you want an external kit go with a Corsair Hydrocool 200 E. Less money than the EXOS and works better.

Biggest reason for a kit is to get the monitoring system if your pump doesn't run of your power supply. You can trust your motherboard temp monitor to shutdown your system, but I don't recommend it. There are monitoring boards available for a DIY kit.

Kit - easy but only work a little better than air cooling. But they do work.
DIY - Patience, Quality, Preparation and Research are the keys to success.
AIR - SP-94 with Tornado is great if you want to keep your neighbors awake... But it does work.

Next time I build a system from scrath I will go with a DIY - but that is also because of how easy and effective the kit i have now was to install and use. Nothing wrong with a kit if you know what your expectations are. I wanted quiet, easy and reliable for a decent overclock - that's what I got and I am happy about it. I don't have to worry about leaks or my wife or dog trashing it. I don't worry about leaks or failures. And I don't need earplugs...

I have one big issue with Koolance - a kit comes complete, not get a kit and get the waterblock extra.
 
At least the koolance "kit minus block" idea works well now that they have a few different model waterblocks.

It's better than paying for one you will just end up ebaying.

Either way, I think everyone likes the koolance due to how nice it looks. The corsair is pretty much a basic box shape. If it's sitting in plain view, it should at least look good :)

Either way, I love how folks saw some $30 retail kit and think all W/C kits are like that....Swiftech 22xx series kit....highly doubt any aircooling would even touch that...the phrase needs to be reworded to "kits that have these specific features are worse than ______".
 
I noticed you said save for a phase-change. The $220 you have is very close to what I spent to set up my phase-change system.

When I decided to move away from high end air, I decided to skip water altogether. I knew I would be happy with it forever, so why not move directly to phase-change and save some money.

If you were willing to spend $300, and you didn't mind a cooling system that sits outside your case, phase-change could be done very easily, provided you have access to torches for brazing.

It does take some time and research, but the results can't be argued with. It took my average overclocker (3.0 @ 3.5) and turned into a 4+ GHz machine.
:D
 
Alright, I think I'm definately going WC. 2Fresh's rad's look really nice (http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=730863). I also think I can clear some space at the bottom of my case by removing the HD cage and putting the HD's in the upper mounts.

P1010014.jpg


Ok, so I can put the radiator at the top of the case in a shroud. I can have the radiator at the top and the pump at the bottom of the case, right? The consensus is no reservoir, correct? If we can figure out how to make this work in my case then I will make the switch this week. The wire mess will get better once I remove three of the fans and the fanbus.
 
Originally posted by Jonsey
I noticed you said save for a phase-change. The $220 you have is very close to what I spent to set up my phase-change system.

When I decided to move away from high end air, I decided to skip water altogether. I knew I would be happy with it forever, so why not move directly to phase-change and save some money.

If you were willing to spend $300, and you didn't mind a cooling system that sits outside your case, phase-change could be done very easily, provided you have access to torches for brazing.

It does take some time and research, but the results can't be argued with. It took my average overclocker (3.0 @ 3.5) and turned into a 4+ GHz machine.
:D
Click to expand...

another fan of garage-built phase change. nice. :D
*warning - minor thread jack approaching*
what refrigerant did you use? direct die or waterchiller? pics of the setup? put up a post with some pics dammit! lol.
I have 2 single stage phase change systems in the garage that are good to go and just about all of the parts for the weapon cascade have arrived (2 stage classic cascade - one 1hp compressor, one .5 hp compressor, a mega-copper tube in shell heat exchanger, temprite oil separator, parker accumulator, weapon built evaporator, etc. etc.....this might be the coldest summer yet. :)

back to the H2O question at hand.
pick your parts - don't buy a kit. with the case size you are dealing with, an external box makes a lot of sense but if you really want it all in your case it can be done.

I built my system pretty much from bare copper plates
+ this and that from the autostore and it kicks the ass of any prebuilt kit - internal or external. well, it owns the internal kits...it fricken completely owns the external crap that is on the market. :p
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=700169

if at all possible, go with a shrouded dual 120 Heatercore. they rock. trust me....
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=706562
;)

block - rbx or whitewater
tubing - clearflex is good, 1/2" ID tubing if it will fit
pump - swiftech 600 is getting good reviews - several heavyduty overclockers are sticking with it.
rad - one of the heatercores.
 
I have a dual 120 core with a weaponized shroud I am going to sell after I finish testing it. This is much like the one in my dual 120 thread but it has a solid steel one piece shroud (latest rev of the weapon shroud) with brazed seams (alloy used for brazing is rated in the 50,000psi area). it doesn't have the flat side panels but it has a schweet paint job.

test results with the modded design coming soon. it should roXor. :)
 
idk about not having a res, i too have a PC60 with a D-Tek Heatercore mounted in the top of the case with a DD round res and its makes easier for me to fill and bleed, from what i heard t-lines can be harder to bleed but never actually used one
i'll post pics later tonight of my setup
right now its a D-Tek WW and a swiftech video WB and hydor L30 pump with clearflex connecting it all
 
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