Thief Demanding PC Gets Pummeled Instead

DudeItsMe

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I wonder how many of you guys would REALLY attack a burglar. It's too easy to beat your chest and say bring it on, and when it actually happens, you'll be under your bed sucking your thumbs. :p

Somehow threads like this turn into, "I would have done _________!!!!!!!11!!1!"

Seriously guys.... you didn't get robbed. We don't really care how many rounds you would have shot with him, with what gun, what type of ammunition you would have used, and what areas of the body you would concentrate your fire on :rolleyes:
 

Antonius

Limp Gawd
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Feb 9, 2004
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Well, I don't live in Texas, so I am not defending any Texas-centric argument but...they are correct. People who break into your home are not there for tea and cookies...and the TRUTH is..crime is based on opportunity. Are they going to rape your wife and kill you and her after they steal your shit for sure? No. Is it a VERY REAL possibility? Yes it is. I am not going to wait around for the CRIMINAL to explain why he is committing a felony and whether or not he is planning on restricting his activities to property crime based felonies only or if he is going to go with violent/crimes against person felonies.

Also, you do not shoot to injure someone. That is basic, fundamental firearms training. If that is how you think or will act, you are better off without a gun. One of the 4 fundamental rules of firearms is never point it at anything you are not ready to destroy. Destroy...not injure, destroy. If they live, that is fortunate for them, but you do not pull that trigger unless you are prepared to kill. Also, if you are TRYING to injure only, you are likely going to have a problem, because shooting people is not like the movies, where they fly through plate glass. A handgun is a terrible weapon for incapacitation and often requires several rounds. Further, as I said earlier, people are often "dead" from a wound that will be fatal, but they do not know it yet, and keep fighting. Not a situation I want to be in.
 

whrswoldo

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Somehow threads like this turn into, "I would have done _________!!!!!!!11!!1!"

Seriously guys.... you didn't get robbed. We don't really care how many rounds you would have shot with him, with what gun, what type of ammunition you would have used, and what areas of the body you would concentrate your fire on :rolleyes:

Don't care? Move along...:rolleyes:
 

Monkey God

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Actually "shooting and killing a robber is undue use of lethal force" is pretty much the argument here, which is what I said, if you really read it all.

Well, I say "argument", a couple of free-thinkers getting shouted down by the good ol' boys.

I read it, I just think you are completely wrong.
 

whrswoldo

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Actually "shooting and killing a robber is undue use of lethal force" is pretty much the argument here, which is what I said, if you really read it all.

Well, I say "argument", a couple of free-thinkers getting shouted down by the good ol' boys.

Texas circle-jerk? Good ol' boys? If you can't have a discussion without petty name-calling feel free to GTFO.

The [H]ard|Forum Rules:

(1) Absolutely NO FLAMING, NAME CALLING OR PERSONAL ATTACKS. Mutual respect and civilized conversation is the required norm.

Disagree? Feel free to state your argument in an intelligent adult manner, and maybe someone will take what you say seriously.
 

Monkey God

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Somehow threads like this turn into, "I would have done _________!!!!!!!11!!1!"

Seriously guys.... you didn't get robbed. We don't really care how many rounds you would have shot with him, with what gun, what type of ammunition you would have used, and what areas of the body you would concentrate your fire on :rolleyes:

then GTFO and unsubscribe
 

SPARTAN VI

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Actually "shooting and killing a robber is undue use of lethal force" is pretty much the argument here, which is what I said, if you really read it all.

Well, I say "argument", a couple of free-thinkers getting shouted down by the good ol' boys.

Nah, you didn't say that at all. Let's review.

First you threw an ad hominem:

This isn't going to get through to people because this thread is just a Texas circle-jerk, but anyway...

Then threw up this straw man argument about being fortunate with our HDTVs and nice jobs doesn't mean we have the right to kill robbers. It's a straw man argument because it misrepresents our position and only serves as a distraction. If you have meant to say "shooting and killing a robber is undue use of lethal force," you could have just said so. Instead you choose to roll with two logical fallacies. :)
 

Monkey God

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Nah, you didn't say that at all. Let's review.

First you threw an ad hominem:



Then threw up this straw man argument about being fortunate with our HDTVs and nice jobs doesn't mean we have the right to kill robbers. It's a straw man argument because it misrepresents our position and only serves as a distraction. If you have meant to say "shooting and killing a robber is undue use of lethal force," you could have just said so. Instead you choose to roll with two logical fallacies. :)

You sound smart, therefore you must not be from texas

/sarcasm
 

JosiahBradley

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I don't feel very safe walking around my area with my laptop and that's why I purchased one of those damage plans for it. So if someone tries to steal it I'm OK breaking it while smashing their face in (repeatedly) .
 

Dan_D

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This isn't going to get through to people because this thread is just a Texas circle-jerk, but anyway...

Just because your parents could afford to get you into a good college and you used your daddy's contacts to land a cushy well-paid job, doesn't mean you're entitled to shit like 60" HDTVs and $5000 stereos. Get over yourselves, robbers don't deserve to die. The wife-rape card is just scaremongering NRA propaganda bullshit.

How the fuck do you know what the intruder is there for? I'd rather kill him then let him rape my girlfriend, rape me, kill her or kill me or any combination of those things. If I had children their lives might be endanger as well. You think thieves never do anything besides steal? You need a reality check.

And I didn't get where I am on anyone's coat tails. I worked for everything I have and these pieces of shit do not deserve to come in and take what myself or anyone else has earned. If they try they will get what they deserve. From my gun their reward commeth.
 

CopyCat

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This has nothing to do with the argument.

I am just curious as to other than saying "I would have defended my home/property with any and all force required" why a bunch of you guys made sure to mention all the guns in your bedrooms, how many rounds you would have put into his body, the fact that you would have shot his lifeless body more times to make sure he was dead and so on and so forth?

Does that actually do anything other than show off how many guns you have and how manly you are for how at the point you would be to kill someone, even with a justifiable cause?

Just curious....
 

Monkey God

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This has nothing to do with the argument.

I am just curious as to other than saying "I would have defended my home/property with any and all force required" why a bunch of you guys made sure to mention all the guns in your bedrooms, how many rounds you would have put into his body, the fact that you would have shot his lifeless body more times to make sure he was dead and so on and so forth?

Does that actually do anything other than show off how many guns you have and how manly you are for how at the point you would be to kill someone, even with a justifiable cause?

Just curious....

How is it any different than e-bragging about how big our PC's are? Some of us have more hobbies than computers, guns, cars, whatever.
 

Orangey

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Nah, you didn't say that at all. Let's review.

First you threw an ad hominem:



Then threw up this straw man argument about being fortunate with our HDTVs and nice jobs doesn't mean we have the right to kill robbers. It's a straw man argument because it misrepresents our position and only serves as a distraction. If you have meant to say "shooting and killing a robber is undue use of lethal force," you could have just said so. Instead you choose to roll with two logical fallacies. :)

I doubt you even know what "ad hominem" and "logical fallacy" means, most likely you're just parroting off the flavour-of-the-month terms that get thrown around on forums. I'm surprised you didn't throw in an "asinine" or two.

"shooting and killing a robber is undue use of lethal force" is EXACTLY what I said with "robbers don't deserve to die". Keep spinning, though.
 

Dreaz

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I'm glad the student was able to repel the attacker without resorting to over-the-top violence. Either way I cut it, robbing someone of property or protecting your own property, a human life is always more important.

An aside, I do find it funny with everyone bragging about their arsenal. If these people claim to be as tough as they say they are, why do they feel the need to stop someone with a baseball bat with a gun? Surely if this Geek can wrestle someone to the ground and take them out of commission, they could as well? Unless, of course, they're scared? ;)
 

Atamido

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I don't feel very safe walking around my area with my laptop and that's why I purchased one of those damage plans for it. So if someone tries to steal it I'm OK breaking it while smashing their face in (repeatedly) .
Best. Plan. Ever.


I think it is a matter of the danger myself or other innocent people are in. If someone was running away with one of my monitors, then I can't see shooting them, but I can see trying to track them down to send them to jail (though I doubt jail would help in the long run).

In my book, if someone pulls a weapon on anyone I know, then that is their method for declaring their life forfeit. They have absolutely no claim to continued life at that point.

If someone enters my home while I am in it, then I am suddenly in danger. I would try to announce my presence while being out of range of them, and if they didn't leave immediately I would have to assume I am in danger and act accordingly. If they leave immediately, then I do what I can to help the police track the person down as they may become a threat to someone else at some point.


In the case of the guy in the article, it's pretty likely that his mental safety was closely tied to keeping his notes safe. Just being robbed is enough stress to snap a lot of people, but being a law student that would lose all his work up to that point? I could definitely see him using deadly force at that point.
 

XLeezardx

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I wouldve taken out my Samurai sword and slab him in the throat. Thats not against the law in Texas is it?
 

SPARTAN VI

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I doubt you even know what "ad hominem" and "logical fallacy" means, most likely you're just parroting off the flavour-of-the-month terms that get thrown around on forums. I'm surprised you didn't throw in an "asinine" or two.

"shooting and killing a robber is undue use of lethal force" is EXACTLY what I said with "robbers don't deserve to die". Keep spinning, though.

Ad hominem, an informal fallacy, is attack on character, and you just happen to be doing it again. I aready explained the straw man fallacy. As to it's greek or latin roots, can't honestly say I remember what its literal translation is, so if you were trying to catch me there.. ya got me!

And no, I get to "parrot" my notes from my logic class I took a couple years ago. Who'da thunk I learned me-self sumthin in the colledge?

Ad hominem, ad populum, appeal to emotion, slippery slope, red herring, and straw man arguments are the ones I see on the boards all the time. It's fun pointing them out. :)

Notice I'm attacking you, by the way, just your arguments. Please don't take it so personal.
 

SPARTAN VI

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Ad hominem, an informal fallacy, is attack on character, and you just happen to be doing it again. I aready explained the straw man fallacy. As to it's greek or latin roots, can't honestly say I remember what its literal translation is, so if you were trying to catch me there.. ya got me!

And no, I get to "parrot" my notes from my logic class I took a couple years ago. Who'da thunk I learned me-self sumthin in the colledge?

Ad hominem, ad populum, appeal to emotion, slippery slope, red herring, and straw man arguments are the ones I see on the boards all the time. It's fun pointing them out. :)

Notice I'm attacking you, by the way, just your arguments. Please don't take it so personal.

Even took a minute to copy a part of my transcript for you! Imagine that, someone actually backing up their claims with hard evidence!

transcript.jpg


Try to transfer to cal state fullerton, so I have my transcript handy.
 

Gorankar

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Old America is real America by my standards. It is rather, this new Amerika some seem to live in, that does not relate to the rest of us.

Countering idiocy with idiocy. The irony.
 

AVT

Supreme [H]ardness
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obviously. But Texas is part of old America. So what goes on there really isn't relative to the rest of us.

Texas has it right. If you're being robbed, you can never be sure that the guy isn't going to decide to shoot you point-blank right before leaving to avoid getting caught.
 

TOOL1075

Gawd
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Good lord.... a lot has been said. (I apologize for not posting back in the fray- I was at the gym).


I apologize that I incorrectly explained something in my first post in this thread.

I incorrectly stated that the 2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution gives us a right to defend ourselves.

That is a common misconception.

The 2nd Amendment of our Constitution preserves our rights as human beings to defend ourselves.

It doesn't give us the right. It protects the inherent rights that we all have, as human beings.


This is not:

"hiding behind laws"

or

being a "good 'ol boy"

This is being an American. This country has laws in place to protect our rights as human beings.

Texas, a state in America, has made the decision to preserve these laws.

Some states, have not.

If that makes Texas part of "old America," fine.

I'll take the old America any day. You can have the "new one."

Free thinkers my ass....
 

Dan_D

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I wouldve taken out my Samurai sword and slab him in the throat. Thats not against the law in Texas is it?

No, it isn't. Not in self-defense.

I'm glad the student was able to repel the attacker without resorting to over-the-top violence. Either way I cut it, robbing someone of property or protecting your own property, a human life is always more important.

An aside, I do find it funny with everyone bragging about their arsenal. If these people claim to be as tough as they say they are, why do they feel the need to stop someone with a baseball bat with a gun? Surely if this Geek can wrestle someone to the ground and take them out of commission, they could as well? Unless, of course, they're scared? ;)

Having an arsenal of weapons doesn't make you tough. I don't think anyone said it did. Though I can see how you'd get that impression from the boldness of many of the firearm owner's statements.

As for wrestling or fighting with an intruder, do so if you must but shooting the guy is the safest way to go. I'm fairly large and I don't care what the guy looks like or what he is or is not armed with. The fact is I'm smart enough to know that I might lose a fight and even if I don't I might be seriously and or permanently injured during the struggle. I'm going to air on the side of caution and shoot the bastard. I've got no idea what he may or may not be armed with and I seriously have no idea what he's capable of physically. So training or not, large or small, I wouldn't suggest any home owner/renter or anyone engage in hand to hand combat with an intruder. Ever. Shooting the guy is safer for me and safer for everyone in the house. It also means that the threat will be dealt with faster and more decisively. Past that, if there are more than one intruder, thinking you've got a chance going two on one is foolish. I don't care what you see in the movies, two on one is not good odds.
 

Dan_D

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If someone enters my home while I am in it, then I am suddenly in danger. I would try to announce my presence while being out of range of them, and if they didn't leave immediately I would have to assume I am in danger and act accordingly. If they leave immediately, then I do what I can to help the police track the person down as they may become a threat to someone else at some point.

Announcing yourself or cocking your gun, or things like that may scare off the intruder, but if it doesn't, you've lost the element of surprise. Which is always a tactical error.
 

Azhar

Fixing stupid since 1972
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I'm guessing you're not a death penalty advocate? ;)

whats the death penalty have anything to do with this? This is burglary ffs.

I'm all for the saying "an eye for an eye". You kill someone, you're going to get a death sentence.

What you quoted was me rolling my eyes at the bloodthirstiness of forum posters who seem to think real life is like a FPS video game.
 

Derangel

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whats the death penalty have anything to do with this? This is burglary ffs.

I'm all for the saying "an eye for an eye". You kill someone, you're going to get a death sentence.

What you quoted was me rolling my eyes at the bloodthirstiness of forum posters who seem to think real life is like a FPS video game.

And who gave you the right to decide what the people in this thread are thinking? Are you psychic? Can you read people's thoughts and intentions over the internet? And don't give me that shit about "based on what they wrote". Unless you're a psychology student, psychologist, psychiatrist taking (having taken) classes dealing with writer or a writer yourself with an understanding of the complex nature of the English written language, you have no right to say what people think based solely on the written word.

Defending your home, your own life, and the lives of your family and friends has NOTHING to do with being bloodthirsty. It has NOTHING to do with thinking life is like a video game. It has everything to do with the human instinct of survival. Whether its the survival of yourself or of those you love, it comes down to this. I'm a pacifist and yet I perfectly understand why people would kill to protect their homes. I'm damn well sure I would do the same thing if it came down to me feeling like it was either the life of some piece of shit or myself and those I care about. I don't care about human life enough to give a second thought to the safety of other people over my own and that of those I care about.
 

alg7_munif

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The first thing that came in my mind: the geek certainly didn't get a letter from RIAA or else he would offer the laptop voluntarily.
 

xdivenx

[H]ard|Gawd
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I would just roundhouse the intruder and shatter his face at 299,792,458 meters per second.
 

Kahnvex

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This isn't going to get through to people because this thread is just a Texas circle-jerk, but anyway...

Just because your parents could afford to get you into a good college and you used your daddy's contacts to land a cushy well-paid job, doesn't mean you're entitled to shit like 60" HDTVs and $5000 stereos. Get over yourselves, robbers don't deserve to die. The wife-rape card is just scaremongering NRA propaganda bullshit.

What the fuck?

What are you even talking about? How old are you? Is the world a soft gentle place for you?

Who gives a shit if someones parents paid their way to college or not? Why are you defending people who would seek to enter a law abiding citizens home and take their stuff? Entitlement has nothing to goddamn do with it, and for the record sir, I'm entitled to whatever I want to buy with the money I legally earn from my tax paying job. I've worked since I was 16, and besides the occasional helping parental hand in a tough spot from middle class hardworking parents, nobody has hand-out'ed me shit.

So I'm entitled to to keep whatever I want in my house however I choose, and I'm entitled to feel safe in my home, and not have my wife or baby disturbed by some midnight burglar.

I think all you people with these fucked up "the burglar isn't the problem you not being able to part with your material shit is" attitudes need to post your address here on the net. That way the next time I feel like I need to upgrade my TV, I can just come browse your shit first to see if it's better than mine.

Since you aren't entitled to it, you won't care if I take it, right?

goddamn some of you are stupid.
 

xdivenx

[H]ard|Gawd
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This isn't going to get through to people because this thread is just a Texas circle-jerk, but anyway...

Just because your parents could afford to get you into a good college and you used your daddy's contacts to land a cushy well-paid job, doesn't mean you're entitled to shit like 60" HDTVs and $5000 stereos. Get over yourselves, robbers don't deserve to die. The wife-rape card is just scaremongering NRA propaganda bullshit.

Lol wut?
 

w1retap

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Man, I never knew there were so many anti-gun anti-self-defense pansies on these forums.

If someone breaks into my house, they're getting a few hallow points shot through them.

When someone steals or destroys your property, that's one of the biggest threats to freedom there is. That was one of the biggest principles the founding father's put major emphasis on. Nonetheless, when someone forcefully enters your residence, they're up to no good and deserve anything they get. I'm not giving my life or property to a criminal. Up here near Detroit you hear every week about individuals or families getting killed by criminals breaking into houses. Sometimes they don't even break in.. they'll knock on the door and when you come near the door they'll shoot you through it and then break in.
 

whrswoldo

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whats the death penalty have anything to do with this? This is burglary ffs.

I'm all for the saying "an eye for an eye". You kill someone, you're going to get a death sentence.

What you quoted was me rolling my eyes at the bloodthirstiness of forum posters who seem to think real life is like a FPS video game.


What do you mean "this is burglary ffs"? First of all, this is not burglary, it is robbery, and there is a big fucking difference.

Burglary (also called breaking and entering and sometimes housebreaking) is a crime the essence of which is entry into a building for the purposes of committing an offence.

Robbery is the crime of seizing property through violence or intimidation.

This is a serious offense we are talking about which carries very stiff criminal penalties. When someone is robbed they are deprived of very basic, fundamental rights. How someone can dismiss this is beyond me.

When someone is given the death penalty, they have to be killed by an executioner. Should the executioner get the death penalty? No! Why? Because they killed someone as an act of justice. If someone breaks into my house and tries to rob me and I kill them, that's fucking justice. By justice I am not necessarily referring to what you or I think is right but what the law says is right. This has nothing to do with bloodthirstiness or a video game, this is about protecting my personal liberties to the full extent of the law.
 

Ricey

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Personally, I'm against unneeded violence but I agree, if someone breaks into my house I will act and kill if necessary. I don't care so much for the stolen property or anything, those are just objects that can be replaced if need be. What would make me act is that the robber could potentially hurt or kill my loved ones. Dan is right, you never know what the robber is thinking. So many times people get murdered or raped during a robbery, you never know what they are thinking so you never know what will happen. The only defense against it is to act upon said intruder.

Those who think otherwise are just living in their own fantasy. The world is not a nice place full of flowers and sunny meadows. The problem is degenerate humans, aka burglars, will take whatever opportunity that arises for them. They see your stuff and see your not going to do anything to them, they take it. They see your wife or girlfriend sitting there helpless and see you aren't going to do anything, they take advantage of the situation. I'm only 24, but yes, I WOULD KILL if theress even the TINIEST RISK of my girlfriend getting hurt or worse.
 

gaspah

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if someone tryed to steal one of my baby's (PCs) they'd get a shit load more hospitalisation than a few stitches...

stealing my pc is right up there approaching 'trying to hurt my mother' on the 'things that would make me crack and turn psycho' list...
 

Ricey

Limp Gawd
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I should add, those of you who think there is a non-violent answer to a robber, I can guarantee you, if a robber breaks into your home and see you doing nothing and start going for your children, wife, or girlfriend, YOU WILL SNAP and find whatever you can grab to attack them. I don't care if your saying you won't right now. That's human instinct. If you don't and you value your life over your loved ones, your no better than the robber.
 

Manaknight

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But yes, Manaknight, if your goal is to kill them, and you fail - they can sue you (our legal system seems to be broken).

That's one of the reasons I practice my shooting skills :)

Insurance :)

i understand what you said, i understand deadly force, but i was simply stating that sometimes its more fitting for them to have to live with their choice everyday when they are dead from the neck down.... without being liable yourself.
 
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