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"They Wonder Why People Don't Make PC Games Any More"
- Thread starter Netrat33
- Start date
I pirated COD4 for the PC. But before I leave it at that let me explain a bit. I bought COD4 for the X360. I am a PC gamer. I got up to like level 45 on 360, and decided I wanted to try the PC version out, see if there was any difference. Logically if you buy a game, you should be able to play it on any system, you shouldnt have to buy it twice just so you can play THE SAME GAME on a different system. Anyway, I downloaded it, and I played the single player. I ended up liking the PC version so much aim wise (mouse and keyboard is so much better) that I bought that copy too. Looking back I think its stupid I had to buy COD4 twice. But I did, just so I could get a valid key to play the PC version online.
Moral of this story? Sometimes, pirated copies of games, can lead to game sales. Its like an extended demo. In this case, it was exactly that. Infinity ward made 2 COD4 sales off of one customer. This customer did pirate the game. I dont think piracy is as cut and dry as many would like to believe.
Moral of this story? Sometimes, pirated copies of games, can lead to game sales. Its like an extended demo. In this case, it was exactly that. Infinity ward made 2 COD4 sales off of one customer. This customer did pirate the game. I dont think piracy is as cut and dry as many would like to believe.
WarMace
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In college I was broke, now I'm not, so I went piracy free. I even went and purchased some of the games I pirated in college.
I only condone piracy is if you want to try before you buy and borrow a friends copy.
I only condone piracy is if you want to try before you buy and borrow a friends copy.
Canadian in Berlin
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I also pirated one game because the only copy I could find around here was in german or polish. :S
4saken
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Ive had my share of piracy back in college when i was broke as well. But now ive gone back and bought even little programs that ive used for years on the free because i felt they deserved my money now that i could afford it. Now that i buy games, i definitely dont play as many because I only buy games i really want. If i dont really want a game i just ignore it altogether. Piracy has always been rampant and used to actually help the industry, eg Quake 1 multiplayer explosion was definitely helped by piracy. But now it is so absolutely easy and rampant, it is just killing the industry.
You are stealing from them, why are you having such difficulties with this concept? I don't care if a game company puts out a steaming pile of shit in a box, pirating it is still wrong. It is still a product. This is how capitalism works. Yes the game companies are out for profit, of course they are. The only thin they owe you for your $50 is to help get it running in the case that it doesn't - you knew what you were buying before you bought it. Game demos, reviews, forums, etc... all provide insight into whether or not a game is a good buy - it isn't the game developers fault that some people who bought the game didn't take the time to determine if it was worth it. So no, it is not false advertisement, and game developers are not ripping off consumers.
Pirating games is wrong, always.
considering this game has a heavy online component, how does this guy know that alot of people are pirating it? considering that pirated games are near impossible to play online anywhere decent, so you really just got the single player, and i'm not sure how you cull stats on that.
I don't have CoD 4, so I don't know specifically what it does. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be too effective.
I think mandatory online validation is the way to go to reduce the PC piracy problem. I can name a few games off the top of my head that have a piracy-resistant model:
1. MMOs, obviously.
2. Hellgate London. Hellgate London requires you to connect a Battle.Net-style service to play multiplayer, and the game is designed so that single player is pretty pointless. There's also no way to locally host games.
3. Guild Wars. Also a Diablo-style game that requires you to log in to a server to play.
4. Games on Steam. I don't know what the piracy statistics are for Steam games, but I imagine they can't be too high. Steam is effective because: it makes buying games easy, there's added value (ex. achievements and stat tracking), and games are sufficiently tightly linked to Steam that pirating them is more trouble than most people will bother with.
TheGooch69
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because its impossible to pirate console games.
I forget which torrent site it was, but the top ten most downloaded pirated games from their site were console games. Only 4 were PC.
And the number of downloads for each game were in the millions. Sad.
Actually, there is. Never heard of the ESA (Entertainment Software Association)? Just like the RIAA is the meeting of EMI, Sony, Universal, and Warner music divisions along with numerous smaller companies the ESA is the meeting of EA, Epic Games, Activision (there's WoW), Ubisoft, Microsoft, ID software, Eidos, Capcom, Konami, and numerous smaller game companies. What's the goal of the ESA according to their own site? "The ESA works with government at all levels to make the voice of its members heard on a wide range of crucial legislative and public policy issues, including intellectual property protection, content regulation, and efforts to regulate the Internet."
Wow you people simply don't understand sarcasm when it slaps you in the face do you?
Shottah_king
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I'm not going to lie, I use to play pirated games, but when I saw that PC Gaming was almost dead, I couldn't do it anymore. I buy all my games now, I just look for ways to find discounts and sales.
Games I've bought in the last year:
WIC
COD4
Orange Box
UT3
GOW
Bioshock
CC3
Stalker
I hope others can stop pirating games, soon there won't by any games to pirate as developers stop developing for the PC platform.
Games I've bought in the last year:
WIC
COD4
Orange Box
UT3
GOW
Bioshock
CC3
Stalker
I hope others can stop pirating games, soon there won't by any games to pirate as developers stop developing for the PC platform.
brucedeluxe169
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I dunno about that one.... I've seen pretty much all of the Orange Box games available on the torrents to try out before I bought them (and I did). Seemed pretty easy to me.....
I WILL say that the slowdown in PC gaming really can't be too much of a bad thing actually. There will ALWAYS be games made for the PC... that is a given, and so the slowdown will probably mean a much slower pace in graphics advancement and gaming PCs will probably last longer and be less costly.
/thread
I am familiar with the ESA, and the ESA is not a governing body. It does not manage licenses, it does not set prices, it does not do marketing and promotions. Also according to their site, "The ESA offers a range of services to interactive entertainment software publishers including a global anti-piracy program, business and consumer research, government relations and intellectual property protection efforts. ESA also owns and operates the E3 Media & Business Summit." Again, it is not governing anything.
TheGooch69
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Yes. It's easy to misinterpret someones tone from simply reading his WRITTEN words.
I wasn't trying to rude in anyway either.
stoney_titan
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When I can afford the games, I'll buy em'.
When I can afford a movie theater ticket, I'll go.
When I can pay for DVD's, I will.
~ College Freshman
I hope you enjoyed the poem.
When I can afford a movie theater ticket, I'll go.
When I can pay for DVD's, I will.
~ College Freshman
I hope you enjoyed the poem.
brucedeluxe169
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CPU: E4300@ 3.47
MB: Gigabyte DS3 Rev 1.3
RAM: 2x1gb of G. Skill DDR2 800
HDD: 160gb Wester Digital 7200rpm
GPU: 8800 GTS 320mb 675/995
PSU: Xclio 500w psu
OS: Vista 32bit
you could afford a pretty expensive PC though
I'll admit that I buy titles that I think are worth it. For the rest that I'd barely look at, let alone purchase I may be inclined to go pirate it.
Then there's the whole matter of "continent" exclusives. Some games will never see the light of day in NA. Yet they have a fan base sometimes double that you'd find in NA. Culture differences I know, but considering the whole globalization concept, you'd think that bring a clue. Those games for the most part I have no choice but to pirate. To purchase an alternate console simply to play another continent's game is ridiculous.
The DS and the PS3 get a nod of approval for being region free. Thus I've purchased games I really wanted for them.
Then there's the whole matter of "continent" exclusives. Some games will never see the light of day in NA. Yet they have a fan base sometimes double that you'd find in NA. Culture differences I know, but considering the whole globalization concept, you'd think that bring a clue. Those games for the most part I have no choice but to pirate. To purchase an alternate console simply to play another continent's game is ridiculous.
The DS and the PS3 get a nod of approval for being region free. Thus I've purchased games I really wanted for them.
There should be an entity which governs the use of metaphors on the internet. Like, you should have to be licensed before you attempt to make one.Similar situation: Movies are much easier to pirate, all you need is a camcorder. They cost at least a couple million to make, and they only charge $9.50 for admission. They must be going bankrupt, why do we still have movies?
TheGooch69
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Similar situation: Movies are much easier to pirate, all you need is a camcorder. They cost at least a couple million to make, and they only charge $9.50 for admission. They must be going bankrupt, why do we still have movies?
I really don't want to get into it, but you are very wrong but also right. The Hollywood studios barely make back their investments with most films. They spend 100+ million dollars on a movie will only make a few million profit from ticket sales. It's the big summer blockbusters that break first weekend records that they make the real money. Most studios only consider their films a success if they can make back their investment in the first weekend, or as close to it as they can. Sad but true, and it hardly happens.
It's sort of a broken system that is going to fail eventually if it doesn't change. The cost to make films needs to go down.
TerranUp16
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Thats the dumbest shit Ive heard in a long time..Another BS justification for sneak thieving bastards..So.if you drop $50k on a BMW,you should be able to steal gas because your pocketbook is hurting??Get real..How about not spending 2k on a computer,buy a console and have plenty left over for games..
Or spend $900 and play Crysis on High settings
Anyway, console gaming isn't actually cheaper- if the price of games is really hurting you, you're probably buying a decent amount. Therefore, the (at least) $10 you save on each PC game should easily make-up the difference (and, hell, if price is really that much of an issue for you, just put together a PC that can perform almost exactly on-par w/the Xplodebox 360- it won't cost you much at all and you'll get a better mechanism of control (and you can always get a 360 gamepad for those games that don't lend themselves well to m/k) as well as cheaper games).
Spaceman_Spiff
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Don't mean to jump on you specifically, as you were referring more to imports, but I hear this type of rhetoric a lot and quite frankly, it doesn't make sense to me. Since when is it the consumer's right to play a damn game? A private company makes it in order to make money, its not a public service or inalienable right for you to play it. If it sucks, guess what, don't buy it, but don't steal it either. The quality of an individual game or the industry as a whole has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the legality of pirating games.
The RIAA doesn't set the prices on things or do the marketing for its member companies. The Record Industry Association does for the record industry what the Entertainment Software Association (even their websites have similar design) does for the videogame industry. It's just the RIAA goes after the individual people they think are breaking copyright law (and this site's bias is definitely towards considering the RIAA 'evil' for doing so, just look at the posts saying leave the accused pirates alone in the other topic about copyright that was also posted today but about music) while the ESA largely focuses on going after the big guys (the piracy groups themselves).
Look at the thread created by Steve named: An Interview with the Misguided RIAA. In it almost everybody is against the RIAA and all for the "little guy"; there are no antipiracy posts on the entire first page. The two threads have both gone right to the topic of discussing piracy yet have wildly policies on what is ok. Over there they say music costs too much, so they deserve piracy. Over there they say "I'm a poor college student; I can't afford to pay for it but they'll make money off me LATER if they don't upset me now". Over there they say piracy is ok because they don't pay the artist who "made" the music enough. But here - when we're talking about videogames - if you don't want to pay the prices then you don't deserve to play the game. With videogames if you don't have the money you still shouldn't pirate. When talking videogames nobody says "It's ok to pirate because they didn't pay the designer of the game millions."
dark_reign
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Game reviews can be misleading since they rarely play the entire game through, which in that case they wouldn't wouldn't run into any game stopping bugs or other BS. The game demo is a very small part of the game. Usually one level or part of a level. There's no way of telling if the game will get better or worse, or if performance will suffer on another level.
People tend to exaggerate in gaming forums, be it for good or bad. And, telling me to do a ton of research before buying a PC game is like saying I've got a lot of time on my hands to do it. But finding out the game has bugs is a given. Someone saying they think the game sucks or say that it kicks ass is just THEIR opiniion. Opinions are nice and all but are meaningless when it comes down to paying $50+ for something. No one can tell you that you'll like it or hate it, run into the same problems, etc.
Games publishers lie all the time to get you to buy their games. That's why they pay a lot of money to advertisiting agencies to sugarcoat the design of the game box and online/magazine ads. It's their job to make you WANT to buy the product and they'll come up with the biggest line of BS to do it.
The gaming industry is just as corrupt as the movie and music industry. When the bottom line is all about profits then there's some lying and deception involved. Capitalism at its finest.
I still buy games from the store or on Steam but admit I also pirate. But I can only count on one hand how many games I've pirated and actually played all the way through. Most of the games I pirated rarely make it past an hour of gameplay. And, yes, I researched the game and it looked like I might possible want to buy it but didn't. I didn't enjoy them and saved myself a load of cash. Boo hoo if some game publisher didn't get my money.
I don't know if this has been mentioned but:
Good games will make more money than crappy games.
Simply because no one wants to buy crap for $50 and get screwed. people pirate because they want to experience the game play and then buy. If they like the game they will buy it, if it sucks they will not. Again, good games make more money than crappy games. Crappy developers can go make console games...and I hope it stays this way!
On another note. PC game makers will never die out...it's simply Darwinism! You make crap and you will die...you make good games and you will thrive.
Good games will make more money than crappy games.
Simply because no one wants to buy crap for $50 and get screwed. people pirate because they want to experience the game play and then buy. If they like the game they will buy it, if it sucks they will not. Again, good games make more money than crappy games. Crappy developers can go make console games...and I hope it stays this way!
On another note. PC game makers will never die out...it's simply Darwinism! You make crap and you will die...you make good games and you will thrive.
I know I was speaking in the most general terms. Big blockbusters do often cost in the 100M+ to make. Comedies usually cost between 20-30M depending on who is starring, based on my wife's Entertainment Weeklys that I read in the bathroom
According to whom?
You wouldn't be saying that if were in the business yourself.
At the end of the day, all you're doing is justifying your illegal acts. You don't like the product, so it's okay to not pay for it, even if you use it partially or fully. The games cost too much. The publishers lie (about what, exactly?). The industry is corrupt. Blah, blah, blah...
Let's face facts here. You're cheap; you don't want to pay to play, so you come up with half a dozen excuses why you're entitled to the software you pirate. It's pretty much that simple.
You're akin to the guy who walks into a strip club, gets a lap dance, then says, "Eh. I personally didn't like that, so I'm not going to slip any twenties in your g-string. In fact, I probably wouldn't have done so even if I did like it. So long!"
TerranUp16
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I went to see Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem. I'd seen AvP on Cinemax for free a few years after its release, and it was more or less meh. However, I read a great deal about AvP: R- new directors, better setting, etc... and watched promo materials (one of which included a 3+ min scene that was, in that context, pure awesomeness). I saw the movie, and it stank. I payed $9 to see it. I didn't get that $9 back. I didn't expect to get it back. I took the chance that I thought the movie would be good and that I would like it, but I also knew that in taking such a chance, I opened myself to the possibility that the movie might not be as good as I'd hoped it would be. The latter was the case, but I'm not complaining- I knew the risk when I spent my $9. And, despite the fact that I did not like the product, the product was rendered to me nevertheless. I payed $9 to experience Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem, and I did. Whether I liked that experience or not is irrelevant. Games really are no different in this respect.
dark_reign
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Yep. After several years of buying games that got played for an hour or less you eventually realize you are getting screwed. Something you thought was going to keep you entertained for a few days, weeks or months just went down the toilet. Enough is enough.
dark_reign
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Basically if I don't like a product I BUY I should have the option to get my money back. If I don't like food at a resturant I have the right to refuse to pay for it. And I can go on and on.
Not every game reviewer plays the entire game through. But even so, you are trusting someone else's opinion. A glowing game review doesn't mean I will like the game.
Being cheap and getting ripped-off go hand-in-hand. I've been down that long road of bought and paid for shitty games--both PC and console--and am not playing their 'game' anymore. It really comes down to liking the game enough to pay for it. The value of a game is what I think it's worth, not them.
TerranUp16
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Why should you be able to refuse to pay for food? Have you not ingested it? The only reason you should not have to compensate the restaurant for the food is if the food was not served as advertised- if there was some kind of error in the cooking or preparation of it. But if the food was provided to you as advertised it would be, and you did not like it, you do not have the right to simply not pay for it.
I think you need to do some research on life.
CPU: E4300@ 3.47
MB: Gigabyte DS3 Rev 1.3
RAM: 2x1gb of G. Skill DDR2 800
HDD: 160gb Wester Digital 7200rpm
GPU: 8800 GTS 320mb 675/995
PSU: Xclio 500w psu
OS: Vista 32bit
you could afford a pretty expensive PC though
I won my CPU, and the motherboard and video card were subsidized with gift certificates. Just coz he's a college student doesn't mean his roomy didn't help with the purchase or his parents bought it... The only thing of value in that system is the video card anyway (depending on when it was acquired may not have been so much). I don't see your point judging where he decides to spend (their?) money.
Wish I could get my money back for Gears of War. The demo worked so I went and bought the game. My pc played all my other games fine, but this one would not even start. I was due up for a new computer so I waited two weeks then tried installing GoW on my new pc (all new hardware, and vista x64). It still does not work. Two months later their support staff is unable to figure out what is wrong. They still won't give me a refund, nor pay me for the hours I spent trying to get this piece to work. Who is getting the shaft here?? Wish I had access to the full version before plunking down that cash... This is only ONE example in many purchases. Trying to go "legit" often leads to getting screwed. Now that they have my money, they will use it to make GoW2... so the next person can get screwed.
Purchased Orange Box. Horrible map designs which can only be balanced by making everybody twiddle their fingers for 20 seconds on death. The game is horribly unbalanced from different classes, and keeps changing every patch. The hitbox issues Valve has had since CS:Source makes this game cater to people who suck at aiming and frustrating to people who know they scored a headshot. How about getting sniped after you walk behind a wall? Another game I would have skipped had I been able to know beforehand. Sure, give me a demo to play one map. Either I will get bored before I get to experience the fun of the game, or feel enough to make the purchase to play a little longer and find all the issues I noticed. Frustrating game. Thank gawd I held out long enough to get it for $25. Even if it were $5 I wouldn't have bought it had I known. Portal was less than 2 hours, and already owned HL. Demos often don't give you a "feel" for the game, plus only highlight the best parts. Reminiscent of movie trailers - show all the highlights then be let down how boring the rest of the movie is. Oh, and they give refunds if you hated the movie.
CoD4 was great - played it at a lan party for a few hours. I hated it at first on how poor the targeting system was, but after a few hours I got the "feel" for the game and also learned about the perks to improve accuracy and such - a demo I may not have figured this out. Another example where the full install gave them another purchase than no money from a demo. Will need to find somebody to borrow it from to see if it runs on my system before purchasing... such a hassle to possibly save me from getting bent on another purchase.
I guess renting is an option (locally in my area), but overall adds cost to the total equation.
Steam is a steaming pile. Will never buy through there, nor register a game again. I don't care to go into much detail. Offline was broken until recently, must register online to even install a game let alone play a single player, even when online it still wouldn't let me install Orange Box unless I manually downloaded and installed their crappy client, can't give your copy when done to a friend or relative (or college student), invasion of privacy - tracking playtime, stats, hardware (even if you say "no"), software, and ... ugh the list goes on! And what if Steam goes down or the company gets bought? No guarantees you get to keep your purchases.
I appreciate all the responses in this thread from both sides. I have swayed back and forth from both perspectives over the years and respect everybody's opinion. There needs to be a better system in place to protect the buyer from getting screwed, because for the most part that is the real issue here. There are people who never pay for anything, but in the end they will get what's coming to them. I don't yell or scream or threaten them because it doesn't do any good, in fact it makes it worse. It makes both sides look stupid.
TerranUp16
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Oh, and they give refunds if you hated the movie.
My friend tried. They didn't. Regardless of whether we liked it or not, the movie theatre- and even the movie- did the job they were payed to do- to render the experience of AvP: R upon myself and my friend.
No you don't, you have no such right at all - nor anything close to it. Look its simple, you give company XYZ $$, they give you a product. If you don't like the product, tough shit. Sounds to me like you believe the whole BS about "the customer is always right".
dark_reign
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Been there, done that. If the food sucks from the first bite (it's cold or tastes bad) I should not have to pay for it. In most cases I'll get a new order.
When we talk games, we're hoping that it will be good but can never be 100% sure. Most of the time we're just relying on a game review or playing the demo--both of which can be deceiving. In the case of the game reviewer, they just tell what their experience was and point out the good and bad. They can't give too much away about the game (like spoliers) because game publishers would be suing. So, you're still left wondering if I will enjoy this game or will it suck? So, you take a chance (gambling?) and put down $50 in hopes that you will be entertained. Maybe you will but maybe you won't.
You do not need a valid key to play online. Obviously you can't just type in a bunch of random numbers, but one single working key can be used by many many people, even on the same server. Even fully configured PB and PsB servers allow it the same key to be in use over and over.
I was suprised as hell about this. That one warez copy floating around that was made from a $50 legit purchase of COD4 is probably used by millions of thievers. Even back in 2001 with SOF2 (similar game engine), you couldn't play with the same CD unless the server operator turned off the PB GUID check. Why in COD4 this is allowed is beyond me.
Most of the ticket cost (especially opening night) goes to the movie producer, not the theater. Now that I think about it, it may have helped that was one rare night I chose to treat ourselves to extra large popcorn and drinks. Maybe when the manager saw that he didn't mind so much.
I rarely go to theaters any more because of the price. Which is kind of ironic because of how much I've spent on home theater equipment. hehe. The pros far outweigh the cons though.For a very basic comparison, if the game you purchased likes to crash every hour or has numerous bugs that are obvious despite the reviewers giving it rave or fake reviews (see Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2, Kane and Lynch).
It's like having a freakin fire drill or power outage in a middle of a movie (happened to me in both situations), then you get a refund.
Going to a restaurant and you order a steak with mash potatoes and gravy. You get your order but inside the steak is pieces of fish bones.
It's like having a freakin fire drill or power outage in a middle of a movie (happened to me in both situations), then you get a refund.
Going to a restaurant and you order a steak with mash potatoes and gravy. You get your order but inside the steak is pieces of fish bones.