"They Wonder Why People Don't Make PC Games Any More"

Discussion in 'PC Gaming & Hardware' started by Netrat33, Jan 15, 2008.

  1. Netrat33

    Netrat33 [H]ardness Supreme

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  2. Monkey God

    Monkey God Mangina Full of Sand

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    because its impossible to pirate console games.

    :rolleyes:
     
  3. Space_Coyote

    Space_Coyote Gawd

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    Not true.
     
  4. FadedSpark

    FadedSpark [H]ardness Supreme

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    He knows that. Hence the :rolleyes: :p
     
  5. aFive

    aFive 2[H]4U

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    Funny, it's easier than you think. My buddy who used to own an Xbox bought pirated games from some website. He paid $5 per CD, was pretty dang good quality if you ask me.
     
  6. arr4ws

    arr4ws [H]ardness Supreme

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    and its goddam easy to pirate almost anything... but for the pc its ''easier'' since you do not need no special hardware...

    to stay on topic , do you not need a legit cd key to play online in COD4?
     
  7. Netrat33

    Netrat33 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I think it's funny you all miss his sarcasm heh.

    However piracy on a console is a lot smaller than it is on a pc. Plus it's easier to cut a user off from the WHOLE network on a console from ever gaming online.
     
  8. Netrat33

    Netrat33 [H]ardness Supreme

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    apparently not. don't even need the dvd to play the multiplayer part (that part I do know)
     
  9. Monkey God

    Monkey God Mangina Full of Sand

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    ROLLEYES = SARCASM

    "have IQ's suddenly dropped while I was away?" - Ripley
     
  10. arr4ws

    arr4ws [H]ardness Supreme

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    well... i remember buying the first call of duty .... and returning it because i didnt like the online play... but i was still able to play online without the dvd.

    this is pretty stupid on their part , most game you now need to register them online with a legit cd key to have acess to multiplayer... a simple server could have done that easily.
     
  11. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster [H]ard|Gawd

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    Note to Devs: Welcome to 199x - Copy a’ floppy. *sigh*


    Why do you think Nintendo tried to made use of propriety CD's on the Gamecube? It slows the process of piracy. If they think PC’s are the only system prone to rampant piracy, they’re literally turning their cheeks to the issue. As soon as public media such as CDs were used for home consoles in the mid-90’s people were ripping discs left and right. My roommate in college had tons of PS1 games - all bootlegged. In this day in age, it's going to be a catch 22 for the developers. End users are way to tech savvy and crafty. Plus it’s a human trait to get the most out of the least amount of resources – thus piracy.
     
  12. mwin

    mwin 2[H]4U

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    The game requires a valid CD key to play online, but the CD doesn't have to be in the drive.
     
  13. Revenicus

    Revenicus Limp Gawd

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    2 things to understand(which go hand in hand) why piracy hurts PC gaming more than it does console gaming

    1. There is naturally a larger percentage of users in the PC gaming community that are wise to how to pirate games. This makes sense as to be a PC gamer you have to have technical know-how..at least more than someone who is a strict console gamer.


    2. With pirating on consoles, it takes more effort(modded hardware + the know-how on a PC to do it) as opposed to a PC where its a simple download and mounting.

    Also another reason why people tend to pirate on the PC more, and something I've witnessed with friends of mine personally, is that after buying a $2000 PC, people tend to not want to spend even MORE on games. yeah some might say, well hey if you dropped $2000 you can drop another $50. well, not true for many people. They are thinking, my pocket book hurts right now, I've paid my dues, I'm going to pirate this game.
     
  14. Frosteh

    Frosteh 2[H]4U

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    CD key systems for online games have been foolproof for a long time now, if poeple are playing CoD4 online and havn't bought it, either they're playing on cracked servers, which are easy to get shut down (hosting companies don't allow illegal use of their services) or they've stolen a CD key from a legitmate buyer.

    The only other option is that they screwed up the auth system, in which case, that's their fault.
     
  15. Netrat33

    Netrat33 [H]ardness Supreme

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    It's their fault people are pirating games....ok :rolleyes:
     
  16. stoney_titan

    stoney_titan [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yes, but you have to emit, console pirating is a hair on an elephants ass compared to the other medias getting raped.
     
  17. aFive

    aFive 2[H]4U

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    Bullshit, YES YOU DO need a legit CDKEY.
    You can play on un-punkbustered servers with a fake one though.
     
  18. MrFace

    MrFace 2[H]4U

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    admit
     
  19. arr4ws

    arr4ws [H]ardness Supreme

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    thanks for the clarification
     
  20. TwistedMetalGear

    TwistedMetalGear [H]ard|Gawd

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    I've always wondered, why do key generators generate so called "valid keys" and yet they don't work for multiplayer? Is it impossible to create a multiplayer key generator or what?
     
  21. mwin

    mwin 2[H]4U

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    The game installer uses a formula, basically, to see if a key meets it's rules for validity. That's how key generators work, they just create a random number (or letters + numbers) sequence that meets the rules. The game publisher, however, has a list of actual keys they have, or intended to, sell. So unless you just happen to generate one on the list, they can determine if you've got a real key, or not.
     
  22. Xrave

    Xrave [H]ardness Supreme

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    Multiple people registering the same CD key = ban the CD key.
     
  23. arr4ws

    arr4ws [H]ardness Supreme

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    could that leave the owner of the valid cd with a ban? Im pretty sure a cd key generator could generate a cd key that exist .
     
  24. PopeKevinI

    PopeKevinI 2[H]4U

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    They pass the software's test for being a valid key, but won't validate with the server because that particular number was never actually generated.

    The number of possible keys in a typical alphanumeric sequence numbers in the tens of trillions (or higher). If they designate 10,000,000 of those combinations as valid multiplayer keys, your odds of generating a valid multiplayer key is LITERALLY one in million. So while it passes the pattern test that the installer uses, it's not actually registered with the server and so cannot work.

    At least that's how I've been *told* it works.

    It's a pretty good system. The people most likely to pirate games are the people most likely to want multiplayer. So you can "try before you buy" and see the gameplay in singleplayer and/or LAN play, but to get online you need to buy the game.
     
  25. PopeKevinI

    PopeKevinI 2[H]4U

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    See my post. The odds are strongly against it, but I'm sure if it hasn't happened already it will soon. It's going to be so rare (for now) that companies will be able to handled such cases on an individual basis. Hopefully they'll do the right thing and work it out so that a customer can easily resolve the issue without jumping through hoops.
     
  26. Kaos_Drem

    Kaos_Drem Gawd

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    I find it interesting that a lot of pc gamers like to use the phrase "try before you buy" but i know a lot of people that will play a game they pirated for a long time and then won't buy it because the pirated copy worked fine.

    There are also those that think its fine to pirate single player games because they offer no replayability.

    I personally started out with a pirated copy of COD4 because i wanted to see how well it would run on my computer, a few days later one of my friends had bought it and didn't end up liking it for whatever reason so i bought the copy off of him and now i have a legit copy.
     
  27. NKDietrich

    NKDietrich [H]ardness Supreme

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    I have yet to see anyone explain to me what harm is being done if I were to theoretically pirate a game that I either cannot afford, or would not have purchased in the first place.

    Can anyone explain what harm is being done in that situation? And by harm I don't mean "Its technically illegal.", I mean actual tangible monetary loss for the company who made or published the game.

    I am not a person who believes that every law is to be obeyed. I've always believed that as long as no one is being even remotely harmed by what you are doing, it cannot be wrong.
     
  28. Elipsn

    Elipsn Limp Gawd

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    You know, I realize I'm going to get flamed to all hell for this, but here goes:

    I consider the video game industry a lot like the movie, and music industrys.

    They demand profits that far exceed the value of their product. When a game is priced at 50 bucks or so no wonder people say to hell with that, it should be 5. I view this as a fault of the publishers, not the developers..

    The video game industry is a racket. Lets create one copy of intellectual property, and sell rights to use copy's of that original copy, regardless of the fact that it cost us practically nothing to produce more copy's...That system is FUBAR! It looks attractive when you're the one making the profit, but the profit isn't justified. The fact is, until reasonable prices for games are charged (and by reasonable, I'd say 2-3 bucks for the cardboard and media, and then perhaps another 2-3 bucks for the game/software/intellectual property.) piracy will continue to occur - and it should.

    The belief that its alright to MASSIVELY overcharge the end user of intellectual property, be it games, movies, or music - is flat out wrong. The only reason its still done today is because publishers have gotten away with it in the past.

    Treat your customer fair, and they will treat you fair, by actually paying you for the product.
     
  29. Xrave

    Xrave [H]ardness Supreme

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    How about theoretically stealing a car that you either cannot afford or would have not purchased in the first place?

    Queue the argument: It's only 1s and 0s and it's not like anyone is missing a copy.
     
  30. NKDietrich

    NKDietrich [H]ardness Supreme

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    You nullified your own argument.
    I asked what harm was being done, not for a poorly hatched analogy.
     
  31. cesium666

    cesium666 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Did you know that it actually costs money, yes, real money, to produce a video game?
     
  32. Sanitarium

    Sanitarium [H]ard|Gawd

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    The piracy issue is the same as the drug issue. Nobody likes it but nobody can stop it, so why complain?
     
  33. Netrat33

    Netrat33 [H]ardness Supreme

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    NKDietrich, Elipsn

    You know a LOT of money and time goes into making a game right? There are a lot of hands that go into the creation of a game, the actual rent for space, the distrubtion, advertising and so on. If a game fails, the company gets closer and closer to closing studio. And all those profits help a company go to its next project. They don't just sit in profits and relax and had no new development strategies. They have to move on because: They have to pay a lot of people who work in a company and sitting on profits ends up drying up. No company out there goes "We're gonna work hard to always break even" Much like your own pocket books, your not supposed to just live paycheck to pay check. You're supposed to save for all other situations that develop.
     
  34. Kalabalana

    Kalabalana [H]ard|Gawd

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    The average PC gamer is imo a bit more tech savvy then the average console gamer, so the piracy might be up because of that.
    TBH though, there's been this wicked massive system for making people buy your game, and it's called online multiplayer, if you do it right, most people will be buying, and won't download.
    Steam is a good example with where it's taken it's catalog.
     
  35. TopGun

    TopGun Gawd

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    It's their problem to fix, not ours.
    I actually bought Call Of Duty 4...Kinda don't think it
    was worth $50 as with every other game. I'm not a
    lets do everything legit 24/7 and kiss ass so all the companies
    get their money, but if it's a good game and you downloaded it
    and play it often you should buy it to help support the developers,
    If it's a shitty game then uninstall it after trying and there you go.
     
  36. NKDietrich

    NKDietrich [H]ardness Supreme

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    I am well-aware. I never said anything about the games not taking money to make. I asked what harm would be done if I were to download a game that I otherwise would not have purchased anyway. If they are not losing any money from me, I am not harming their ability to keep producing games, and I am not helping it either.
     
  37. Slade

    Slade 2[H]4U

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    I think it's a little odd that their authenticated servers would be allowing pirated users to play on said servers. I doubt that's the case...

    I think that the game pirated or not, is informing the authenticated server of it's status and at the very least is recording each individual IP that authenticates as a stat... if that's the case, then the number may be skewed. Most high bandwidth users work off a dynamic IP that changes ever so often, over time, a pirated user may be playing off 3-4 different IP's in the time they are messing with the game.

    The other possibility is that regardless of whether the pirated user is using multiplayer or not, it's broadcasting it's cd-key each time it plays... That would rack up stats nicely too.
     
  38. Elipsn

    Elipsn Limp Gawd

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    I understand it cost money to produce a game - However, the business model that is used in the production and distribution intellectual property is flawed.

    The only reason the idea of "lets charge a lot of money per copy" is accepted, is that its the way its always been done. As I stated before, thats totally, utterly fubar.

    First and foremost, the publisher (ubisoft/activision/etc) sees the majority of the profits, not the developer.

    Secondly, profits can easily be made by lowering the cost of the game to a reasonable level. If I were to be able to walk into a store, and pickup a copy of cod4 for $5 I would do it, as it would be fair.

    It would be fair for two reasons:

    1. I wasn't overcharged.
    2. The developer and the publisher both made a profit, because the cost of game reproduction and distribution, as well as intitial production investment could be covered by the $5-10 dollar figure (actually, their total profits would likely increase, due to economics of scale and the fact that as cost go down, total units sold will increase)

    Heres the problem:

    The publisher is greedy. 5 bucks isn't enough. They want more. They want 8000% profits. This is the kind of shit that needs to stop. Its wrong to assume that its alright to charge the end user a fixed, inflated amount of money for a copy of a game, that cost practically nothing to copy/distribute. Especially once the cost of initial development is covered.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't make any money for developing/publishing the game. I'm just saying it should be reasonable. $50 per game copy, is totally unreasonable, greedy and downright wrong.
     
  39. [LG]BLaRG

    [LG]BLaRG [H]Lite

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    I'll admit, I did download CoD4..

    But after I saw how much of an AWESOME game it is, I went out and bought it!
     
  40. Xrave

    Xrave [H]ardness Supreme

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    Are you doing physical harm? No. However you are taking advantage of someone's time and effort without paying them for their services. The game developers didn't make the game pro-bono, if they had and didn't want compensation for their time, then it would have been free.