They just need to shut ANITA down before we confuse ourselves any worse

KD5ZXG

Gawd
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Mar 24, 2017
Messages
538
I love science! Especially all the well thought through half baked conclusions.

Apparently this baloon thingie sees atmospheric showers thrown by heavy particles.
Some of those showers are of unexpected polarization, and hard to explain. Unless
like neutrinos, they came through the Earth from below? But heavy neutrinos seem
an even harder mystery for theorists to explain. Not going to stop them from trying.

Last week, prevailing theory was all about them holes.

https://www.universetoday.com/146095/high-energy-neutrinos-are-coming-from-supermassive-black-holes/

Now its some backwards univere. Yeah sure, whatever.

https://nypost.com/2020/05/19/nasa-...lel-universe-where-time-runs-backward-report/

Sais the Post, quoting the Star, quoting some dude named Safa who
"also worked on the experiment." Which of course, makes it all fact.
 
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M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
10,663
I love science! Especially all the well thought through half baked conclusions.

Apparently this baloon thingie sees atmospheric showers thrown by heavy particles.
Some of those showers are of unexpected polarization, and hard to explain. Unless
like neutrinos, they came through the Earth from below? But heavy neutrinos seem
an even harder mystery for theorists to explain. Not going to stop them from trying.

Last week, prevailing theory was all about them holes.

https://www.universetoday.com/146095/high-energy-neutrinos-are-coming-from-supermassive-black-holes/

Now its some backwards univere. Yeah sure, whatever.

https://nypost.com/2020/05/19/nasa-...lel-universe-where-time-runs-backward-report/

Sais the Post, quoting the Star, quoting some dude named Safa who
"also worked on the experiment." Which of course, makes it all fact.
I don't understand therefore it is stupid!
 

pendragon1

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 7, 2000
Messages
18,139
tech news or random shit you found on the internet? ps: dont trust anything on the nyp, its mostly lies.
 

KD5ZXG

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
538
Since real science is entirely made up as we go, let me take a crack of my own at it:
Those antennas have both horizontal and vertical ridges and maybe two connections.
If someone hooks one up backward, circular polarization appears to twist backward.

-edit-

I've now seen the pre-amp boxen but forgot to save a link or photo. Definately were
separate N style connectors for horizontal vs vertical. And 40 antenna opportunities
to get one end or other hooked up wrong while wearing mittens the size of roadkill.

I occasionally have to crawl and contort behind a rack to connect I and Q in a poorly
lit space where I can't even turn my head sideways. Can't imagine doing that 160 times
out in the bitter cold on some wierd balloon and get them all right, or properly inspect.

Of course the next time I do get them wrong, backward parallel universes make a
strong plausible defense I'll be sure to use. Hole theory was only good for last week.
 
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KD5ZXG

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
538
And just when I thought the matter closed, Forbes weighs in to basically agree with me.
Wait, what... Forbes agrees with me??? Maybe there is a backwards universe after all...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiec...ows-backwards-the-truth-behind-the-headlines/

Has Forbes been lurking the [H] to plagiarize us? As we quote the Post, quoting Star,
quoting New Scientist, quoting some dude named Safa, who now denies everything.
What exactly did the Weekly World News do wrong to get left out of this grand loop?

More to the point, what ever happened with Atilla (AKA Dr Shrinker) and his 5th force?
Elbone connects the nebone, so sais the standard model...

tech news or random shit you found on the internet?
Only the most random shit I could possibly find!
You mean there's a difference?
 
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THRESHIN

2[H]4U
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Sep 29, 2002
Messages
3,086
So in our universe, if you were to approach the speed of light, we all know time slows down for you. It's like time travel into the future only.

But if you were to reach relativistic speeds in the backwards universe, would you start going backwards in time?

If you could enter either universe at will and go fast enough, you could have a time machine.

But would you have to go backwards to do it? Do you poop before you eat? You could predict what you're going to have for lunch by the smell of your poo.

I suppose I'd eventually be cured of herpes in that backwards universe too.
 

tybert7

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Aug 23, 2007
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It's when you discover things that don't neatly fit into existing theories that you really start learning.
Yeah but the depressing thing about theoretical physics is there is no pathway to test too many things, it just seems like an entire dead end.

We may have to wait for AI that is vastly smarter than any human to tackle these problems to see if there is any new physics to be found we can tap into. Or if we are stuck with the current slate.
 

sfsuphysics

I don't get it
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Jan 14, 2007
Messages
14,025
Not sure I'd take a science article form the NY Post (or any standard journalism) with too much faith.

Principal ANITA investigator Peter Gorham, an experimental particle physicist at the University of Hawaii, suggested that the only way the tau neutrino could behave that way is if it changed into a different type of particle before passing through the Earth and then back again.
And the first thought were neutrinos traveling backwards in time from a parallel universe where time works the reverse way?

https://neutrinos.fnal.gov/types/flavor/
Neutrinos are strange particles, and scientists were quite surprised to find that the flavor of a neutrino changes as it travels. Imagine purchasing a carton of chocolate ice cream at the store, driving home, and opening it only to find it was vanilla! So you put a scoop of vanilla in your bowl and walk into the other room to eat it, where you are surprised to find it is now strawberry. That’s what happens with neutrinos. A particle might start out as an electron neutrino, but as it moves, it morphs into a muon neutrino or a tau neutrino, changing flavors as it goes.
I'd say this is a much more feasible hypothesis, electron neutrons travel through Earth before changing into Tau neutrinos.

That or their detector is miscalibrated/faulty data. I know on the Big Bang Theory they fucked with Sheldon by turning on something to give him a signal making him think he discovered magnetic monopoles :D

Not exactly sure how two universes created at the big bang led to one going backwards, I mean some sort of mathematical symmetry argument? I just can't feasibly understand how that would work, so it was created full sized (where our Universe is going towards?) and simply shrinking to a singularity?
 

kju1

2[H]4U
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Mar 27, 2002
Messages
3,124
So in our universe, if you were to approach the speed of light, we all know time slows down for you. It's like time travel into the future only.

But if you were to reach relativistic speeds in the backwards universe, would you start going backwards in time?

If you could enter either universe at will and go fast enough, you could have a time machine.

But would you have to go backwards to do it? Do you poop before you eat? You could predict what you're going to have for lunch by the smell of your poo.

I suppose I'd eventually be cured of herpes in that backwards universe too.
I always make sure to poop before I eat. Clears out space for the massive amounts of food I am about to shove down my gullet.

On a serious note who's to say time even exists there? But if It does it probably seems to flow "forward" to anyone in it. Which is reverse for us.
 

CraigHB

Weaksauce
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May 12, 2020
Messages
80
Since real science is entirely made up as we go, let me take a crack of my own at it
True in a sense, it all comes down to the consensus of the scientific community, which is basically an opinion. But we need it and without it we would not have our modern lifestyles. Though it seems people are forgetting more and more about the importance of science, especially our politicians who now seem to be basing decisions mostly on presumption and myth.
 

sfsuphysics

I don't get it
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Messages
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True in a sense, it all comes down to the consensus of the scientific community, which is basically an opinion.
I gotta say, I don't like this. Science is don't due to a consensus, and it's not an opinion. Sure when you're floating around the hypothesis stage you have "unproven" stuff, but ultimately all of that needs to be tested, and the testing needs to produce repeatable results, and all of this leads to theory. This is the scientific method in a nutshell, but none of this is based on consensus other than perhaps when someone "goes off the reservation" the community does look down on them to an extent but the ultimate way to get back do some experiments to show you're right, document it so others can also do those experiments. Now sure how do you prove the backward universe exists, short answer you don't you make up some shit and people say "yeah ok sure whatever" but that's not science just because a scientist came up with the idea, hell that barely is a hypothesis.
 

pendragon1

Fully [H]
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I gotta say, I don't like this. Science is don't due to a consensus, and it's not an opinion. Sure when you're floating around the hypothesis stage you have "unproven" stuff, but ultimately all of that needs to be tested, and the testing needs to produce repeatable results, and all of this leads to theory. This is the scientific method in a nutshell, but none of this is based on consensus other than perhaps when someone "goes off the reservation" the community does look down on them to an extent but the ultimate way to get back do some experiments to show you're right, document it so others can also do those experiments. Now sure how do you prove the backward universe exists, short answer you don't you make up some shit and people say "yeah ok sure whatever" but that's not science just because a scientist came up with the idea, hell that barely is a hypothesis.
he's from cali, do they even teach science there anymore?!
 

kju1

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 27, 2002
Messages
3,124
I gotta say, I don't like this. Science is don't due to a consensus, and it's not an opinion. Sure when you're floating around the hypothesis stage you have "unproven" stuff, but ultimately all of that needs to be tested, and the testing needs to produce repeatable results, and all of this leads to theory. This is the scientific method in a nutshell, but none of this is based on consensus other than perhaps when someone "goes off the reservation" the community does look down on them to an extent but the ultimate way to get back do some experiments to show you're right, document it so others can also do those experiments. Now sure how do you prove the backward universe exists, short answer you don't you make up some shit and people say "yeah ok sure whatever" but that's not science just because a scientist came up with the idea, hell that barely is a hypothesis.
The only consensus that matters is that when you repeat the experiment correctly you get the same results.
 

M76

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True in a sense, it all comes down to the consensus of the scientific community, which is basically an opinion. But we need it and without it we would not have our modern lifestyles. Though it seems people are forgetting more and more about the importance of science, especially our politicians who now seem to be basing decisions mostly on presumption and myth.
In a sense? That's exactly how science works. We make it up as we go. The more you know the more accurate you can define reality. How else would you make it up?
You observe reality, make predictions, then test those predictions with experiments. If your predictions are correct then congratulations you just forwarded science. It's not the ultimate truth just the best we know up to now.

Just like newtonian physics don't actually describe reality to the full extent, but they are good enough in most cases.

It is not just about having consensus. It's not like a dozen scientists make a deal in a back room, saying this is how it is. There is a consensus because nobody is able to disprove a theory. As soon as somebody reliably and repeatably demonstrates that a theory is wrong it is discarded, that's the magic of science. It is not based on hearsay whims and myth, it is based on observation.
 

dub77nj

Weaksauce
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Messages
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True in a sense, it all comes down to the consensus of the scientific community, which is basically an opinion. But we need it and without it we would not have our modern lifestyles. Though it seems people are forgetting more and more about the importance of science, especially our politicians who now seem to be basing decisions mostly on presumption and myth.
You mean whoever pays them the most.
 

CraigHB

Weaksauce
Joined
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Messages
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I gotta say, I don't like this. Science is don't due to a consensus
Anything you believe as true or false or accurate or inaccurate is still an opinion. My sense of reality is my opinion. Granted there are better or more true opinions and worse or more false opinions. Scienctific theory (fact) is simply a consensus of opinion based on repeatable observations. Any hypothesis has to meet peer review before it's considered theory. That review is still opinion. Much as we like to think scientific theory (fact) is an immutable pillar of truth, any theory can be challenged.

he's from cali, do they even teach science there anymore?!
I got my degree in science in California a long time ago when California used to produce some of the best scientists and engineers. Now we produce few. That's a whole other beef I have with our society in the US now, the devaluation of science. I feel the USA is getting left in the dust technologically and scientifically by the rest of the world, makes me sad and disappointed. We used to lead the charge. Good job younger generations.
 
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M76

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Much as we like to think scientific theory (fact) is an immutable pillar of truth
It seems to me that only science deniers think that. If you understand how science works you cannot believe that.
They cannot accept the answer: "We don't know", so they fill in every question with myth, superstition, and horse sense and then they stop asking questions.
And when someone challenges one of their "answers" they get mad.
 
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