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2[H]4U
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True, but a lot of folks dont like redundancy. Not only that, you can usually sell your old system to help pay for the new one.
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The Xbox One Wont Play 360 Games Even Digitally
- Thread starter CommanderFrank
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True, but a lot of folks dont like redundancy. Not only that, you can usually sell your old system to help pay for the new one.
1. Because its a massive library
2. Because it would've been a way for MS to set itself apart from Sony, which as it stands right now it hasnt really done aside from being able to change channels on your cable box
It was a missed opportunity is the bottom line.
Your point would be valid if Microsoft had changed in the last 20 years. You know why Xbox360 controllers are not straight bluetooth? M$. You know why we PAY for peer to peer matchmaking? M$. Nothing has changed to drop the M$ save for the fact people got sick of seeing it.
In addition any emulator developed by MS or Sony directly would work a ton better than anything a few developers on the Internet could manage. Unless we are talking Sega Genesis or SNES the chances of a fully functional emulator that plays everything you have are slim. Once you move to Sega Saturn, and PSX1 (and even more so with PS2 games) the compatibility decreases sharply.
Generally speaking backwards compatibility is a good idea. If not, then from the additional perspective of being a gamer that would like to maintain access to the games he/she has purchased over the years. If all games came to PC this wouldn't be an issue. But unfortunately this isn't the case and most of them don't.
The good thing for 360 owners is that the 360 will retain its value because the XO does *not* play 360 games. Same goes for the PS3.
next-Jin
Supreme [H]ardness
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What serious consoles actually had backward capability to play every game from the previous generation?
Playstation 2?
Playstation 2?
Phoenix333
2[H]4U
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Hooray for Dosbox. 
This! - It's probably the biggest reason why I didn't pick up a Vita. If I had my existing PSP library to lean on, I'd have an incentive to get it while the new native A titles started to be released.
Nice hardware, no games to play, and then the company cries about people not buying.
MS and Sony really need to be working closely with developers to get good titles out the door at launch with this strategy.
perplexical
n00b
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was the backwards compatibility the reason why they were that expensive? i didn't think that it would be that costly to play older generations of games.
Ashbringer
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It may have added to the cost, but probably Blu-Ray was the major contributor to the high price. Remember, the PS2 did the same thing, but it wasn't nearly as expensive. The PS2 even used the PS1 chip for IO, which didn't make the old hardware useless. A lot of consoles did this. The GameBoy Advance has a Z80 in it as a coprocessor, but serves as backwards compatibility for GameBoy games. The Nintendo DS also used two ARM chips, and one was for backwards compatibility for the GB Advance, as well as drove the second dispaly in the machine.
So in a sense Microsoft could have easily left out the TV hardware in the Xbox One, for the Xenon chip from the 360. It could do what the PS3 did, and it would be for backwards compatibility, or even be used for other things.
Though to be honest since the Xenon chip is a PowerPC, and the AMD chip is x86, it would complicate things worse for developers. At which point MS should just make a software emulator. Which they most likely already have, but have their reasons for not including it.
Could it not be $60 for some games and $10 for others?
I wouldn't assume that the fee would be the same for every game or that it has to remain the same over time.
That;s false. There will be no charge. This has been confirmed. Geez misinformation in this internet world moves crazy fast.
I'm with that. I'm planning on doing just that. Now in my particular situation, I only have about 10 games in my library and only play 2. I'm a PC gamer at heart. So most of the console issues aren't really issues for me.
I can understand how some things can be issues for others, but this BC stuff is trivial. Because if it REALLY means that much that a person wants to play his/her old games, then they can keep their old system. But to most people it doesn't. Of course if the vocal minority has anything to say about it (they do) they'll keep shouting to anyone who'll listen how bad they have been effed over by the big bad greedy companies.
They have to include the older chips and stuff on the machine and dedicate a team to keep tweaking stuff so that they'll work. Sony realized this and dropped it.It just wasn't cost effective. especially now with such a major architectural change in HW.
Dammit forgot to post the link about the used games fee mis-information:
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...a-fee-will-require-authentication-checks.aspx
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...a-fee-will-require-authentication-checks.aspx
Then you have no games to worry about not being compatible.
But if you wanted to play older games not available on Xbox One, you can't. I don't get what confused you.
Yes it affects everything. There hasn't been any announcements that if they get re-released on xbox one will the user still have to purchase the title or not.
cannondale06
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not everyone wants to fool with 4 or 5 consoles you know. and its stupid that the digital games wont even work.
It's a completely different architecture and adding the hardware to allow backwards compatibility would be expensive. I'd suggest 6 words to replace "Dumb": Could be disappointing to some buyers.
Red Machine D
Gawd
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Back to Slashdot with you, troll.
You know that the games were built on the same engine regardless if they were downloaded or on a disc. You DO know that right?
At first I was shocked and then I went back in history and people definitely complained a lot when PS3 removed the support. But just like PXC said. It's not dumb, just disappointing for some buyers. I'm surprised so many of you are so invested in the older games seeing how most people here snub their noses at anything related to console gaming. It's not that serious. You'll get over it.
Oh yea and Serpent, I agree with you that the situation where a person who didn't have an xbox360 wanted to buy the new one but wanted to play some of the older games does suck. From what we know so far, they'd have to buy both systems. But I just don't see many people in that position. I think there are far more people who wouldn't pay the extra cost associated with BC than those in that situation.
Someone in a different thread mentioned that there could be a software based emulator but a theory was made that MS wouldn't release that for fear of piracy and extra cost/effort required to make that work. I think a decent compromise would be for a software emulator to be put in place just for arcade games.
I also said before that maybe they'd release the popular arcade games on X1 and you'd just pay some sort of money to play em. My point was that hey it's indy dev's, they need the money more than the big conglomerates like EA. But I would like to walk back on that and hope there is some sort of offer given to any re-released game that you already owned. Who knows. Maybe we'll hear something when both companies release concrete details at E3 on June 10th. *shrug*
cannondale06
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um you do know there are original xbox games that you can dl and play on the 360. same goes for the ps3 where there are really really old games that you can dl and play just fine. so something is wrong if the xbox one cannot play digital games.
Sigh.... apparently you don't understand the architecture change that the new gen consoles have compared to the last one. I mean this is [H] right? Where people learn about the hardware inside the machines? But hey, that is your opinion. You are more than welcome to it. I just think you'd find more peace if you understood the architecture more.
I would complain about the developers not recoding it to work on x86 then.
cannondale06
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lol you can sigh all you want. the point is that games that are not compatible with the current systems can still be played digitally. so it seems like that could do what needs to be done to have the digital games still be able to play on the upcoming systems...Sigh.... apparently you don't understand the architecture change that the new gen consoles have compared to the last one. I mean this is [H] right? Where people learn about the hardware inside the machines? But hey, that is your opinion. You are more than welcome to it. I just think you'd find more peace if you understood the architecture more.
cannondale06
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so I am supposed to plug in a 360, xbox1, ps3 and ps4 along with any other consoles I have. hmm well I have other things taking HDMI too so that means not enough slots so its a bitch to have to reach around and unplug stuff just to play one of the games that I have downloaded. and again its sad that they cant figure out a way for the digital games to work. so really the whole online store catalog just gets wiped out this fall?
Godmachine
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I don't care if it plays 360 retail games. I cared if it played all my digitally paid for Arcade games , which it won't which is fucking terrible since I'm going to have to keep my 360 just to play them when I want or discard them entirely for the new Xbox which I won't do.
Fucking mind numbingly stupid bullshit MS loves to pull.
Fuck the next generation consoles , seriously.
Fucking mind numbingly stupid bullshit MS loves to pull.
Fuck the next generation consoles , seriously.
Many of the xbox games were supported on the xbox 360. Xbox was x86 and the 360 is PowerPC. Now its back to x86. There's also quite a case to believe that people have a larger investment to lose going from 360 to One than from the original xbox to the 360. Yet Microsoft is deciding to be indifferent this time.Sigh.... apparently you don't understand the architecture change that the new gen consoles have compared to the last one. I mean this is [H] right? Where people learn about the hardware inside the machines? But hey, that is your opinion. You are more than welcome to it. I just think you'd find more peace if you understood the architecture more.
Is it really a smart move? Its like handing customers a clean break to go to the PS4. They lose nothing now if they do, now.
Ashbringer
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You do know that the PS2 outsold the PS3 for a number of years. I think only in the past 2-3 years has the PS3 begun to out sell the PS2.
There's a lot of people who haven't played a lot of games on that machine. A lot of people also haven't played games on the Xbox 360 and PS3 as well. These people will go out and buy these machines for dirt cheap, and buy used games for like $1, what used to be $60 games.
By including backwards compatibility, you might be able to convince some of those customers to buy a Xbox One instead. Using the compatibility as a bridge. Once enough have crossed over, you don't need the bring. Nintendo did this with the DS, as they removed compatibility with Advance games. The DS eventually had a big enough library that it didn't matter.
As PC gamers we don't care, cause we have the best backwards compatibility. If I want to, I can run DOSbox and play Doom. We're tech geeks, so we like to produce constructive criticism. It's fun to predict things as watch it unfold. If I were betting on the fate of the Xbox One, I would say the following would happen.
#1 It'll likely be an expensive machine, costing at least $500. While the PS4 will obviously be cheaper. Then there's the PC, and the Steam Box. The Xbox One will likely be the most expensive gaming device around, and will fail because of this.
#2 It's best competitor will be the Xbox 360. Once the Xbox One goes on sale, prices of Xbox 360's will drop in price. This is what happened to the PS3 with the PS2, and will likely happen with the One. Even Nintendo knew the Wii U would be outsold by the Wii for a while.
#3 It will be hacked, and that'll be a huge problem. If not for games then to prevent phoning home, or just to install Linux. It could become a very cheap HTPC for modders. It's x86, and people know their way around x86.
kbrickley
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Consoles never used to be compatible before so I am not sure what the big deal is now (when I upgraded my Nintendo to a Super Nintendo years ago there was 0% backwards compatibility) ... this seems more like high maintenance consumers ... if they want 100% backwards compatibility they should be gaming on a PC
You should read Trimlock's response. But it is obvious that you refuse to see a different point. So we'll have to agree to disagree.
That is just as dumb as Windows users that hate windows 8 talk about going to mac. Going to a PS4 does not solve their issue of BC, so it's really a dumb move. FTR, not all xbox games were BC compatible with xbox360. Ashbringer brings(lol) a good point below about buying old system/games dirt cheap once the new machines launch.
Yea I know it did. I also know it was 1/4 of the price of the PS3 at a that time so, thats a "no duh" thing. A person that doesn't have a xbox360 will most likely be wanting to buy the new one with the new games it has. We don't know about enough details yet to really take a hard stance here.
I want my new system to use 100% of its resources to push the genre forward and I agree with that reasoning MS gave for it. People want to play the old stuff, buy the old system. Like you said it'll be dirt cheap. I'm selling mine right about the time when the launch is a couple weeks away. I would do it sooner, but there are 2 games that I just can't stop playing.
I doubt that either system will be more than $50 away from each other price wise. But I could be wrong and you could be right. I just don't see it happening. We'll see on June 10th right?
I will agree with you, well mostly, on the fact a big competitor will be the older system. Like you said history has shown that. But the PS4 will be it's biggest competitor.
I'm interested to see how it will be hacked. I used to chip the first Xboxes, but then with the 360 MS took away like 80% of the reason to chip the xbox by including so much of the features the modding community showcased. The only reason at that point was to play pirated games. And since you can't go online with them, well... meh.
Exactly. And some of these people are gaming on a PC and still getting up in arms about this console stuff. You have a PC. I hate redundancy as much as the next guy. But I'm prepared to sacrifice what I have to get what I want. I had my NES for awhile when I got my SNES. Well, my younger brother got the NES. And after a while maybe less than a year, that NES started collecting dust.Consoles never used to be compatible before so I am not sure what the big deal is now (when I upgraded my Nintendo to a Super Nintendo years ago there was 0% backwards compatibility) ... this seems more like high maintenance consumers ... if they want 100% backwards compatibility they should be gaming on a PC
It is really amazing how quickly fanboys start making excuses for companies making terrible decisions.
Some of you don't seem to understand a simple concept. Xbox isn't the only thing on the market and it isn't just about BC. It is the fact that the WiiU has full BC and is competition even if it does suck. It is the fact that the PS4 while it doesn't have direct, has announced Digital BC through the streaming service Gaikai. Now while we don't have all the details on this and while it may or may not be great. The fact is the major competitor to the 360 is at least offering Limited BC instead of MS's Attitude of "Go fuck yourselves". Not Everyone wants to have multiple console generations connected to their TVs. Nor do they want to have to drag the old one out just to play a game.While the lack of direct compatibility is understandable due to the architecture change, the absolute lack of trying on their part puts them at a competitive disadvantage.
Being completely blunt though, MS has just made the Xbox One as Anti-consumer as they possibly could. I fail to see at this point how anyone could justify buying the thing.
1) No form of BC in the face of direct competition who offers it.
2) Unnecessary requirement of forcing kinect to be conected and the always on Camera and Mic privacy issues.
3) Absolutely unreasonable requirement of connecting to the internet once a day to "Prove you aren't a criminal".
4) Hardware lockdown and prevention of replacing the internal hard drive and the option to expand is USB which is an utterly stupid choice.
Seriously, who in their right mind willingly buys into that? Whoever you are, thanks for screwing everyone else and encouraging this kind of anti-consumer behavior.
Some of you don't seem to understand a simple concept. Xbox isn't the only thing on the market and it isn't just about BC. It is the fact that the WiiU has full BC and is competition even if it does suck. It is the fact that the PS4 while it doesn't have direct, has announced Digital BC through the streaming service Gaikai. Now while we don't have all the details on this and while it may or may not be great. The fact is the major competitor to the 360 is at least offering Limited BC instead of MS's Attitude of "Go fuck yourselves". Not Everyone wants to have multiple console generations connected to their TVs. Nor do they want to have to drag the old one out just to play a game.While the lack of direct compatibility is understandable due to the architecture change, the absolute lack of trying on their part puts them at a competitive disadvantage.
Being completely blunt though, MS has just made the Xbox One as Anti-consumer as they possibly could. I fail to see at this point how anyone could justify buying the thing.
1) No form of BC in the face of direct competition who offers it.
2) Unnecessary requirement of forcing kinect to be conected and the always on Camera and Mic privacy issues.
3) Absolutely unreasonable requirement of connecting to the internet once a day to "Prove you aren't a criminal".
4) Hardware lockdown and prevention of replacing the internal hard drive and the option to expand is USB which is an utterly stupid choice.
Seriously, who in their right mind willingly buys into that? Whoever you are, thanks for screwing everyone else and encouraging this kind of anti-consumer behavior.
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I'm confused as to why it won't even run Xbox Live Arcade titles. They couldn't even be bothered to make it run Pac-Man and 2D beat'em ups?
Here's one incentive. If those are must-haves, you'll be expected to buy them again.
sfsuphysics
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Is it really too much to ask that people have TWO consoles? The new, and the old which they have a "large investment in". Or have gamers turned into minimalistic beings where they want one box next to their TVs? Don't most TVs come with 4+ HDMI ports? Is there some reason other than not wanting two boxes where one would work that people with such a large investment can't continue to use both systems?
If it keeps the cost down, then yeah it's a smart move. However there's also a segment that don't care about any of the other shit that it does, they just want to play the latest and greatest games, but still have to pay for the hardware that does all that other junk (or R&D in the software market)
Ashbringer
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Consoles never used to be compatible before so I am not sure what the big deal is now (when I upgraded my Nintendo to a Super Nintendo years ago there was 0% backwards compatibility) ... this seems more like high maintenance consumers ... if they want 100% backwards compatibility they should be gaming on a PC
By including your best game with your console, you don't need backwards compatibility to entice customers.
NES -> Super Mario Brothers
SNES -> Super Mario World
N64 -> Mario 64
The Sega Genesis though did at least have an adapter for the Master System compatibility. Companies back then weren't worried about becoming irrelevant like they are today. They weren't worried about tablets and smartphones, or services like Steam. It's been predicted that the next console generation might not be able to survive, so every small detail would go a long way.
Two of the same? Yes it is, especially when you have one of each brand, plus things like Stereo equipment, Cable dvr boxes etc. It all starts to add up quite quickly and not everyone wants to have 50 things crammed into one cabinet. It has little to do with number of hdmi ports on the TV.