The World May Be Headed For a Fragmented "Splinternet"

rgMekanic

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Countries around the world are passing laws regarding social media and search results. The growing issue is several of these country-specific laws are written so they must be enforced globally. Vivek Krishnamurthy, assistant director of Harvard Law School's Cyberlaw Clinic, goes into great detail on how these laws could end up sanitizing the internet.

This is a seriously disturbing trend. We covered when Germany passed the law that orders social media companies to delete hate speech within 24 hours or face a fine of $57 million. What I was not aware of is the dozens of other cases all over the world. This global overreach of national laws is a very real problem; a problem to where a dictator could potentially censor the internet globally if this precedent is set. The other outcome being the "World Wide Web" may become not so world wide.

"The way the trend is going, there is a lot of pressure directed at breaking the internet, this global network, into a national network with interconnections It could change what the internet looks like in five or ten years."
 

Ur_Mom

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First off, I only read a little bit of that article.

Fuck that. Don't like it, censor it at the ISP level in your country.

If it's a German website hosted in Germany, fine them. Your country, your rules. If it's a US website hosted in the US, go pound sand. You connected to a network, what's on it could be anything. I don't think website owners need to adjust their shit to satisfy every known market or request in the world.
 

Bandalo

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First off, I only read a little bit of that article.

Fuck that. Don't like it, censor it at the ISP level in your country.

If it's a German website hosted in Germany, fine them. Your country, your rules. If it's a US website hosted in the US, go pound sand. You connected to a network, what's on it could be anything. I don't think website owners need to adjust their shit to satisfy every known market or request in the world.

If it's a US website hosted in the US, they have to follow US law. If they want to do business in Germany, they have to follow German law while in Germany.

That's not unique to the internet, that's true for any global company. The laws are just finally starting to catch up with the internet. Just like how state tax laws are finally catching up with internet sales. It sucks, but it's a fact of life.

Every big company will bend over and take it, because the alternative is just closing up shop in that country.
 

Ur_Mom

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If it's a US website hosted in the US, they have to follow US law. If they want to do business in Germany, they have to follow German law while in Germany.

I can access a site that is illegal in the US but legal in their country. Why isn't the US shutting them down? Copyright law from Russia is different than in US, for example.

The internet is a global network. I'm doing business in the US. Yet, if my site is accessed in Germany, I could be breaking their laws. If I were to put a German swastika as an attachment here, would I violate German law (say it was a law in Germany)? If someone accessed this site from Berlin, would I be liable for it? Shit, would I have a warrant for my arrest in North Korea if I were to say Kim Jong-Un were a fat piece of shit with a fucked up haircut on HardForum and someone there read it?

Now, if Facebook has a presence in Germany, selling German ads, focusing on German people, then I can see it. Facebook.de or something.
 

J3RK

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I'd actually love to see what would happen if a company like Facebook or Google just shut off their services in a country that's complaining about them (like Germany). Might not have even mattered a few years ago, but now, there'd be outright panic probably. It's not that I condone hate-speech or anything like that, but these arbitrary fines that they impose for things that aren't fully in the company's control are just stupid. The problem was caused by the person posting hate-speech, not the company that made it possible.
 

B00nie

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I can access a site that is illegal in the US but legal in their country. Why isn't the US shutting them down? Copyright law from Russia is different than in US, for example.

The internet is a global network. I'm doing business in the US. Yet, if my site is accessed in Germany, I could be breaking their laws. If I were to put a German swastika as an attachment here, would I violate German law (say it was a law in Germany)? If someone accessed this site from Berlin, would I be liable for it? Shit, would I have a warrant for my arrest in North Korea if I were to say Kim Jong-Un were a fat piece of shit with a fucked up haircut on HardForum and someone there read it?

Now, if Facebook has a presence in Germany, selling German ads, focusing on German people, then I can see it. Facebook.de or something.

Ironically enough there is a law in Germany prohibiting the display of any national socialist symbols. The country is locking down defensive talk and bowing down to the muslims.
 

Bandalo

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I can access a site that is illegal in the US but legal in their country. Why isn't the US shutting them down? Copyright law from Russia is different than in US, for example.

The internet is a global network. I'm doing business in the US. Yet, if my site is accessed in Germany, I could be breaking their laws. If I were to put a German swastika as an attachment here, would I violate German law (say it was a law in Germany)? If someone accessed this site from Berlin, would I be liable for it? Shit, would I have a warrant for my arrest in North Korea if I were to say Kim Jong-Un were a fat piece of shit with a fucked up haircut on HardForum and someone there read it?

Now, if Facebook has a presence in Germany, selling German ads, focusing on German people, then I can see it. Facebook.de or something.

It's very likely that the US COULD shut those sites down, or block your access. They just haven't enforced those laws yet. Someone's gotta squawk loudly enough first.

On your second point, you wouldn't have any problems, because what you did as a US citizen on a US network on a US server was legal. That German person may have violated German law by accessing it though, but he's in trouble, not you. Now if you did it flagrantly, and encouraged Germans to come to your site and break their laws, the Germans might be rightfully upset and block access to your site from their country. I doubt they'd file charges against you, or try to extradite you or anything though, since you likely couldn't be charged. Now if you're taking German money for those things, then there might be some trade laws you'd be violating, and then they MIGHT file charges of some kind.

And you might have a DPRK arrest warrant issued for you for going after the Dear Leader, but it's not enforceable outside the DPRK.

Amazon.de, Facebook.de, etc are why those sites exist. It's not just to keep the servers closer to the users and save bandwidth. It helps those companies comply with local laws and collect funds and sell advertising easier if you can focus on a particular country.
 

Biznatch

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We don't need a law like this when we can just rely on CNN to dox people who don't conform

CNN kept that douchebag racist trolls name out of the news, and even if they didn't, it would not have been a case of doxxing.... Look up the definition.....



Back to topic. Hopefully this starts advancing satelite internet tech so we just have global coverage that can't be blocked by individual countries.
 

NeghVar

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From a hypothetical standpoint, if all counties must abide by one country's cyber-laws, could Muslim countries demand the extradition of people in other countries to be executed for posting parody or satire of Islam or Mohammad online in the other country?
 

Zion Halcyon

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CNN kept that douchebag racist trolls name out of the news, and even if they didn't, it would not have been a case of doxxing.... Look up the definition.....



Back to topic. Hopefully this starts advancing satelite internet tech so we just have global coverage that can't be blocked by individual countries.

It would have, and as some online have pointed out, CNN actually committed a Felony for violating 135.60 under New York's criminal code filed under "coercion".
 

faugusztin

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Now, if Facebook has a presence in Germany, selling German ads, focusing on German people, then I can see it. Facebook.de or something.

Facebook Germany is located at Kemperplatz 1 (Bellevuestr.), 10785 Berlin. And obviously they are selling german ads etc. On facebook.com.
 

cthulhuiscool

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CNN kept that douchebag racist trolls name out of the news, and even if they didn't, it would not have been a case of doxxing.... Look up the definition.....



Back to topic. Hopefully this starts advancing satelite internet tech so we just have global coverage that can't be blocked by individual countries.
 

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Ur_Mom

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From a hypothetical standpoint, if all counties must abide by one country's cyber-laws, could Muslim countries demand the extradition of people in other countries to be executed for posting parody or satire of Islam or Mohammad online in the other country?

But, that'd be illegal by our laws. That's what I don't get. The internet is a global network. You're plugging into a huge network. No one is forcing others onto their servers, their sites, etc.. It's all voluntary. Fining someone $57M for hate speech is dumb, if the speech is legal in another country where it originated.
 

Mugato

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Ironically enough there is a law in Germany prohibiting the display of any national socialist symbols. The country is locking down defensive talk and bowing down to the muslims.

Damn right they are scraping their knees as hard as ol' BHO did. This is like some jerk painting anti-safe-space speech on a hmm Prius is a good example (from Portland recently LOL, Califonians) and fining the owner for leaving it there 24 hours! WTF! Pike off Germany, just in it for the easy cash.

You know what I don't doubt in the least? They have government or contracted or black ops people creating facebook accounts simply to post that stuff. Rake it in boyz!
 

Angry

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CNN kept that douchebag racist trolls name out of the news, and even if they didn't, it would not have been a case of doxxing.... Look up the definition.....

They obviously said something to the dude, he wouldn't have come out like he did with the lengthly apology.
It was shared in a part of reddit that is nothing but dudu posting....purposely poop posting.

Plus, CNN itself among many other "news" outlets are far from credible anymore. I mean...they went after a poop post from reddit.
Really?
 

BlakLanner

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The real question about where this is headed: What happens when two countries have conflicting laws? It may be impossible to follow all the laws from every country simultaneously.
 

Tengis

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Sounds like an easy solution, "What? We didnt delete what you wanted to in time? Cool story bro".
 
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Just a step towards a one world order.
Does anyone know of any books or anything that outline the pros of a "new world order" and censorship and control? I have always wondered what the people enforcing these very much terrible ideals and changes actually think they're doing. Also the more biased and propaganda filled the book, the better.
 

Dead Parrot

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Ultima99

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Does anyone know of any books or anything that outline the pros of a "new world order" and censorship and control? I have always wondered what the people enforcing these very much terrible ideals and changes actually think they're doing. Also the more biased and propaganda filled the book, the better.

Everything worked out perfectly in Demolition Man, right? :rolleyes:
 

Zion Halcyon

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By the way, this new censored internet is courtesy of handing the internet over a foreign body instead of keeping it under US control.
 

m_isom

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chenw

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From a hypothetical standpoint, if all counties must abide by one country's cyber-laws, could Muslim countries demand the extradition of people in other countries to be executed for posting parody or satire of Islam or Mohammad online in the other country?
I hereby found the state of Chenw-land, and I declare that the first article in my constitution to be "All connections to non-Chenw-land media and people are prohibited, violation is a capital offense".

I'd like to apply for banning the internet please!
 

Galvin

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Looks like we'll end up just having internet local to your country in the near or far future.
 

Stimpy88

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We are on the brink of losing the Internet as it stands. It's already being censored to a small degree depending where you are located. And the EU's right to be forgotten turned into a law protecting criminal behaviour among the rich elite, and not protecting innocent members of the public as intended.

We dont have many years left before it will be a sanitized search engine, and sites about gardening and health.
 
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faugusztin

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But, that'd be illegal by our laws. That's what I don't get. The internet is a global network. You're plugging into a huge network. No one is forcing others onto their servers, their sites, etc.. It's all voluntary. Fining someone $57M for hate speech is dumb, if the speech is legal in another country where it originated.

The laws apply to these companies because they have actual, physical presence in the country.

For example Facebook has offices in these European countries :
  • Ireland
  • Germany
  • UK
  • Spain
  • Italy
  • France
  • Sweden
And that means, they are subject to law of these countries.

It is actually mainly US which is exporting their law without the need for physical presence of targetted company/individual. US can take away you .com domain, even if you live in let's say India, never left India, server is hosted in India.
 

AK0tA

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Good, shut the whole damn thing down. Maybe people will get back to real lives and do something instead of posting selfies and walking in traffic.
 

Spire3660

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I'd actually love to see what would happen if a company like Facebook or Google just shut off their services in a country that's complaining about them (like Germany). Might not have even mattered a few years ago, but now, there'd be outright panic probably. It's not that I condone hate-speech or anything like that, but these arbitrary fines that they impose for things that aren't fully in the company's control are just stupid. The problem was caused by the person posting hate-speech, not the company that made it possible.

Neither of those companies are required to use the internet. We would route around it like normal.
 

HoffY

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I'd actually love to see what would happen if a company like Facebook or Google just shut off their services in a country that's complaining about them (like Germany).
Germany is in bed with Fecesbook. Didn't you catch the hot-mic slip up between Mother Merkel and the sellout that is Zuckerberg?

Talk about history repeating.
 
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Shit that the EU does will be useless, going after posters that vanish hourly is useless and social media sites simply can't manage to police the volume of vomit that arrives on their doorstep every second.

The US is the only country that knows how to destroy freedom properly, they go after the credit card companies and financial institutions and strong arm them into black listing websites that encourage "moral decay". In fact it was the Bush II administration that gave crypto currencies such a huge boost in their brave fight against un-Christian thoughts and un-American ideals.

Now nobody can access porn or crazy ultra conservative Islamic propaganda.

Oh wait.
 
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Simplyfun

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The US has been interfering with the rest of the worlds internet since it's inception via direct meddling and financial tools. Now they're going to have to take it. It's that simple.

When you're first and biggest you kind of get to lead, when everyone else piles on you get to FIFA .
 

nysmo

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The obvious solution is for companies to refuse service to countries that pass censorship laws. However the problem is if Google or Facebook pulls out of Europe entirely, then some other competitor will gladly step up to the plate, abide by ALL rules (and then some) and become an immediate dominant player worth billions. You think domestic companies are going to give up that kind of market just to appease some sense of moral superiority over censorship nations? If Bill Gates offered you a billion dollars to cleanse your home of all offensive material would you not take it?
 

Wierdo

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Considering the stuff we're doing - ex. Microsoft European server access demands, shutting down/Seizing Dotcom's business by twisting broken national laws on a global stage, shutting down a Spanish music site that's serving Spain and ruled legal to operate there etc - is this really a surprise?

No leg to stand on here, the net will probably get balkanized down the road and we played our role in that.
 

jasondhsd

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Free speech needs to be protected. No government should be the arbiter of what is or isn't allowed to be said. No one has the right not to be offended. Protecting speech isn't meant to protect only speech the majority agrees with. I hope facebook, google, etc pull their presence out of these countries and stand up for our most basic right, to use our voices, they don't have to stop people from those countries for accessing their services that would be up to those countries governments to force their ISPs to block their citizens.
 
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