The Wii U is done

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wow. You think I said your uneducated, or implied even? Way to take things over the edge there friendo.

I don't see these as questions, maybe statements?

1. The Wii U was/is going to sell horribly and its limited library and support = done. Maybe not done for a Nintendo fan but for the market as a whole and the consensus no one cares.
Again, what is your definition of done? Having a system already paid for out the door, games that are all GotY games with high replay-ability over any library the PS4 and the XBone have right now, that makes a system done? I'm sorry, if you take the games out of that list, that can be played on a PC, I don't see many games at all that are original games on their own. In fact, if you take the games away from PS4 and XBone that can be bought on PC, Wii-U has a bigger library.

2. Nintendo has seen generation over generation declines in its base. Every generation the average loss is 15 million. They will only sell >15 million this generation, that's a problem. Nintendo knows it and are breaking into other markets because they have nothing to fall back on. = Short term Nintendo is fine, long term they have serious problems relating to gaming. (This discussion in this forum)
Again, all consoles going out the door from Nintendo are paid for already. Yes, there may be less consoles going out the door each generation, but so far, that's also the same with Sony and with Microsoft. Also, this comment has less to do with the Wii-U and more on Nintendo, again, making your statements flip-flopity.

3. Nintendo's attitude towards third parties and the West is terrible and has caused both 1 and 2 to a point. They have done nothing to fix this and their next console will have the same problems as the Wii U. While I agree with the opening part with their attitude in the West, I do not agree that this caused problems 1 and 2. Problem 2 is more related to bad marketing on Nintendo's part. There best sales came during Mario Kart 8 and SSB, which were both highly marketed on TV and even on YouTube. As for not doing anything to fix their attitude, I still have to point you toward indie dev's who are working on titles for Wii-U and even some release titles already done. At the beginning of the Wii-U lifespan, there would have been none, but they are really garnering a backing for the system.

/bow
 
next-Jin said:
No I've been pretty much on point with 1-3 for a year now. No one have even attempted to comment on any of them in depth other than third parties which were just bad attempts to respond tbh.
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1. The Wii U was/is going to sell horribly and its limited library and support = done. Maybe not done for a Nintendo fan but for the market as a whole and the consensus no one cares.

Wii-U will be profitable(returned a profit last quarter). Thus not done.
Wii-U only needs Nintendo software everything else is icing on the cake. Thus not done.
Wii-U had the most highly rated exclusives of all consoles. Thus not done.
Wii-U isn't in the Market you reference that is what PS4 is for. Thus not done.

2. Nintendo has seen generation over generation declines in its base. Every generation the average loss is 15 million. They will only sell >15 million this generation, that's a problem. Nintendo knows it and are breaking into other markets because they have nothing to fall back on. = Short term Nintendo is fine, long term they have serious problems relating to gaming. (This discussion in this forum)

First - I thought this was about wii-u only.
Second - Every Generation has been profitable. If Wii-u Sales >15 Million (which you state as fact) it will still be profitable.
Third - Nintendo is breaking into other markets because that is what companies do. Nintendo Profits on hardware so they are going to do that as long as possible. Fall back on? They have some of the best software and brands in the industry and profit on their hardware they aren't going to need to fall back on anything. ShortTerm Nintendo = Fine and nothing suggest the future will be any different but nobody knows.


3. Nintendo's attitude towards third parties and the West is terrible and has caused both 1 and 2 to a point. They have done nothing to fix this and their next console will have the same problems as the Wii U.

Nintendo could probably be profitable without any third party support. People buy Nintendo for their first line and top of the line products. This is a pro not a con. Nintendo is the only company that can tell a 3rd party to fuck off if they wanted too. What did Bayonetta 2 release on again?
 
FrEaKy said:
wow. You think I said your uneducated, or implied even? Way to take things over the edge there friendo.

I don't see these as questions, maybe statements?

1. The Wii U was/is going to sell horribly and its limited library and support = done. Maybe not done for a Nintendo fan but for the market as a whole and the consensus no one cares.
Again, what is your definition of done? Having a system already paid for out the door, games that are all GotY games with high replay-ability over any library the PS4 and the XBone have right now, that makes a system done? I'm sorry, if you take the games out of that list, that can be played on a PC, I don't see many games at all that are original games on their own. In fact, if you take the games away from PS4 and XBone that can be bought on PC, Wii-U has a bigger library.

2. Nintendo has seen generation over generation declines in its base. Every generation the average loss is 15 million. They will only sell >15 million this generation, that's a problem. Nintendo knows it and are breaking into other markets because they have nothing to fall back on. = Short term Nintendo is fine, long term they have serious problems relating to gaming. (This discussion in this forum)
Again, all consoles going out the door from Nintendo are paid for already. Yes, there may be less consoles going out the door each generation, but so far, that's also the same with Sony and with Microsoft. Also, this comment has less to do with the Wii-U and more on Nintendo, again, making your statements flip-flopity.

3. Nintendo's attitude towards third parties and the West is terrible and has caused both 1 and 2 to a point. They have done nothing to fix this and their next console will have the same problems as the Wii U. While I agree with the opening part with their attitude in the West, I do not agree that this caused problems 1 and 2. Problem 2 is more related to bad marketing on Nintendo's part. There best sales came during Mario Kart 8 and SSB, which were both highly marketed on TV and even on YouTube. As for not doing anything to fix their attitude, I still have to point you toward indie dev's who are working on titles for Wii-U and even some release titles already done. At the beginning of the Wii-U lifespan, there would have been none, but they are really garnering a backing for the system.

/bow
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The original thread definition of done was early on easily defined as last place with no support.

No, overall decline in sales has nothing to do with my point. I've said it a million times already. Nintendo has seen losing market share on average of 15 million every generation (Wii excluded). This dates back to the release of the SNES over the NES and onward. That's well before any industry decline.

• please don't point to the Wii as some argument to refute this. I've already covered it in detail not even 50 posts back.

And again no. You're using one indie title and a Nintendo backed game to argue that third parties are coming back. That goes back to our earlier discussion of asinine because it is.

I wasn't the only one to call that an illogical argument either.

What's sad is that I have said this many times already and covered all of these responses. You're responses are exactly like stevedave s iirc talking about overall decline in 4 years and my response mentioning generational declines.

If you take a snapshot of 4 years it proves nothing on what I'm talking about you'd need a 25 year chart to show it. Or you could simply look at sales figures for each console sold, put it on paper and just stare at it for an hour.

Might have to let it sink in a minute or 60.
 
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next-Jin said:
The original thread definition of done was early on easily defined as last place with no support.

No, overall decline in sales has nothing to do with my point. I've said it a million times already. Nintendo has seen losing market share on average of 15 million every generation (Wii excluded). This dates back to the release of the SNES over the NES and onward. That's well before any industry decline.

• please don't point to the Wii as some argument to refute this. I've already covered it in detail not even 50 posts back.

And again no. You're using one indie title and a Nintendo backed game to argue that third parties are coming back. That goes back to our earlier discussion of asinine because it is.

I wasn't the only one to call that an illogical argument either.

What's sad is that I have said this many times already and covered all of these responses. You're responses are exactly like stevedave s iirc talking about overall decline in 4 years and my response mentioning generational declines.

If you take a snapshot of 4 years it proves nothing on what I'm talking about you'd need a 25 year chart to show it. Or you could simply look at sales figures for each console sold, put it on paper and just stare at it for an hour.

Might have to let it sink in a minute or 60.
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Do you read?

In my last response I didn't mention Shovelknight or Bayonetta 2, I said simply, that Nintendo IS working with some indie devs and third parties now, they are FIXING a problem they had before, stop jumping over it like its the only grenade.

Stocks, really? If you compare Nintendo, to MS, to Sony, yes, they have declining stocks, they are a game company and a game company alone, so yes, there stocks will drop because its not like their releasing software, a line of tv's, some cell phones, etc.

Im not looking at a 4 year CHART, you know, those pieces of paper with lines on it, I dont look at those, I look at news feeds, quarterlies, Nintendo IS NOT LOSING money. They are making money on everything they sell. Sony and MS cannot say that yet when it comes to their console / gaming divisions.
 
FrEaKy said:
Do you read?

In my last response I didn't mention Shovelknight or Bayonetta 2, I said simply, that Nintendo IS working with some indie devs and third parties now, they are FIXING a problem they had before, stop jumping over it like its the only grenade.

Stocks, really? If you compare Nintendo, to MS, to Sony, yes, they have declining stocks, they are a game company and a game company alone, so yes, there stocks will drop because its not like their releasing software, a line of tv's, some cell phones, etc.

Im not looking at a 4 year CHART, you know, those pieces of paper with lines on it, I dont look at those, I look at news feeds, quarterlies, Nintendo IS NOT LOSING money. They are making money on everything they sell. Sony and MS cannot say that yet when it comes to their console / gaming divisions.
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Give some more example of third parties then, give me some articles or something that says they will even have a fraction of the support anyone else does.

What about stocks? I've never used them like I told him, someone else brought them up for whatever reason and he said the Wii made their stock go sky high. What he basically clarified to everyone was what I had been saying about the Wii. It's an outlier and the Nintendo we see with the GameCube before it and Wii U after it is the real Nintendo. Read his post, he summed it up extremely well while somehow still disagreeing with me.

I don't need stocks and never use them for most any discussion I have ever used while using the Internet.

They are finally making money because it took them years to get the Wii U costs down with the 3DS picking up its slack. Their profits in the interim have absolutely nothing to do with what I'm saying anyway.
 
And to clarify with the exception of R&D Sony is indeed making money, with the amount they have sold and PSN subs I'd imagine that division will have good earnings when they release their quarterly figures. We'll see I have no idea how that will pan out but I know for sure they are making money on the console side.

All I know is that they have sold through to consumers 18.5 million units and probably shipped 20-21 million to retailers. That's about in line with the Wiis first year and the PS4 won't be sitting in millions of closets in 4 years so take it for what it is.
 
next-Jin said:
What about stocks? I've never used them like I told him, someone else brought them up for whatever reason and he said the Wii made their stock go sky high. What he basically clarified to everyone was what I had been saying about the Wii. It's an outlier and the Nintendo we see with the GameCube before it and Wii U after it is the real Nintendo. Read his post, he summed it up extremely well while somehow still disagreeing with me.
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That was me. I disagreed with you because you say every console is worse then the previous console and I pointed out that the stock price 2 years after the Wii-u is higher then the stock price 2 years after the game cube. Thus providing 1 more piece of evidence to disprove your downward spiral claim.
 
stevedave said:
That was me. I disagreed with you because you say every console is worse then the previous console and I pointed out that the stock price 2 years after the Wii-u is higher then the stock price 2 years after the game cube. Thus providing 1 more piece of evidence to disprove your downward spiral claim.
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You said the stock price was inflated during the Wii era and not inline with norms.

Right or wrong?

You said to never use stocks.

Right or wrong?

I never have, and you're using them now to disprove a point I'm making.

Right or wrong?
 
next-Jin said:
You said the stock price was inflated during the Wii era and not inline with norms.

Right or wrong?

You said to never use stocks.

Right or wrong?

I never have, and you're using them now to disprove a point I'm making.

Right or wrong?
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And?
Wrong
Right. Its one of the many points but stocks alone doesn't mean jack.

You should include everything when making a claim like Wii-u is done. Sales, Stocks, games, hardware, marketing, brand, momentum, market, audience, strategy, profitability, goals, ect ... All of this should be taken into account.

But looking at 1 figure and running with it works too I guess.
 
Can this thread please be something that isn't

- Troll posts
- Person feeds troll
- Troll demands more food
- Dump trucks of food poured into troll lair

Please?
 
stevedave said:
And?
Wrong
Right. Its one of the many points but stocks alone doesn't mean jack.

You should include everything when making a claim like Wii-u is done. Sales, Stocks, games, hardware, marketing, brand, momentum, market, audience, strategy, profitability, goals, ect ... All of this should be taken into account.

But looking at 1 figure and running with it works too I guess.
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You proved my point from an earlier conversation saying you can't count the Wii when talking about historical norms. The Wii was a "fluke" and came out prior to the smart phone and tablet explosion we have now.

You're right, I was wrong you never said to not use stocks. You said they just can't always rise, my apologies.

From your own post the only one that they have done is release good games and recently profitability though it's certainly not where they want to be. Everything else is surely a failure.

I guess audience could be debated depending on the meaning but I see it as shrinking. Goals is absolutely a failure in every since of the word. Hardware is a failure considering the sales results, initial costs, and power compared to previous generation consoles, strategy is not working (moving to other markets), momentum is dead in the water and their brand has been shrinking forever.

In respect to goals, most companies will adjust their goals but Nintendo is insane in their figures. 9 million in year one making a fraction of that and changing the goal 4 days prior to the earnings call is hilarious.
 
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Terpfen said:
Can this thread please be something that isn't

- Troll posts
- Person feeds troll
- Troll demands more food
- Dump trucks of food poured into troll lair

Please?
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Oh I'm sorry I didn't know saying the Wii U is done or discussing problems at Nintendo HQ was trolling when they are valid claims in a thread called the Wii U is done.

You can always go hang out in the Wii U thread that doesn't suck thread. There is a handful of people going off topic and posting random gifs there with the side discussion on cool Nintendo stuff every few months.
 
Can we please just get this thread locked? It's obvious that the Wii U isn't "done" until Nintendo announces that they are no longer producing/supporting the console. Until that time comes, this whole thread is just pointless.
 
Mabu said:
Can we please just get this thread locked? It's obvious that the Wii U isn't "done" until Nintendo announces that they are no longer producing/supporting the console. Until that time comes, this whole thread is just pointless.
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Stop reading lol, I think you're confusing EOL/Dead with Done.

Though as someone said earlier done was probably a bad term. The OP should have said irrelevant or last, done appears to be difficult for people to grasp as an alternative word.
 
Here is a video from Colin (formally from IGNs Playstation team). He used to host Beyond which is a PS Podcast with Greg Miller. I guess his opinion is irrelevant since he worked the PS side of the house but take it as you will.

He cares about them, but even he knows it's just bad. Obviously he doesn't get into huge detail and iirc he says the Wii attach rate was poor and I'm not entirely sure I think it was about average. I'd have to look into it after I get the kids down.

http://youtu.be/apLgPIMfDG4
 
next-Jin said:
Oh I'm sorry I didn't know saying the Wii U is done or discussing problems at Nintendo HQ was trolling when they are valid claims in a thread called the Wii U is done.

You can always go hang out in the Wii U thread that doesn't suck thread. There is a handful of people going off topic and posting random gifs there with the side discussion on cool Nintendo stuff every few months.
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The fact that you immediately felt offended by a post that did not name you speaks volumes as to how you believe you conduct yourself in this thread.
 
Terpfen said:
The fact that you immediately felt offended by a post that did not name you speaks volumes as to how you believe you conduct yourself in this thread.
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Oh I've had the term tossed my way by the same 5-6 people for a year now. There are a lot of people who stopped by to express their opinions on Nintendo failings but they didn't stick around.

The same people here demanding a thread lock or calling me a troll are the same people who post in the Wii U thread that doesn't suck.

All 6 or 7 of them.

Besides I find it hilarious to see the direction the thread goes. If you read from like 1700 and on almost no one has anything good to say about Nintendo other than they make good games so they aren't done. (Or to clarify the Wii U isint done)

Never mind not answering questions or answering questions with the same statements over and over after having been addressed without a rebuttal.

Leaving all but insults, demands for a thread lock, or calling for a handful of people to finally stop posting and just revive a dead Wii U that doesn't suck thread.
 
next-Jin said:
Oh I've had the term tossed my way by the same 5-6 people for a year now. There are a lot of people who stopped by to express their opinions on Nintendo failings but they didn't stick around.

The same people here demanding a thread lock or calling me a troll are the same people who post in the Wii U thread that doesn't suck.

All 6 or 7 of them.

Besides I find it hilarious to see the direction the thread goes. If you read from like 1700 and on almost no one has anything good to say about Nintendo other than they make good games so they aren't done. (Or to clarify the Wii U isint done)

Never mind not answering questions or answering questions with the same statements over and over after having been addressed without a rebuttal.

Leaving all but insults, demands for a thread lock, or calling for a handful of people to finally stop posting and just revive a dead Wii U that doesn't suck thread.
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next-Jin said:
If you have examples I'm all ears.

Wii U sales are up YoY in Dec though.
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I like how you simply ignored the content of the whole fucking thread yet continue posting in it.

You have no real points to make just keep asserting bullshit with no substance behind it to keep trying to piss people off. But no, you are not trolling. :rolleyes:

Its just you saying the same shit over and over again.

Clearly the Wii U is not dead. Its still has active development and its still selling. No its not a huge runaway hit but come the hell on... They cant release a runaway hit like the Wii every damn generation.

The games that it DOES have are for the most part top notch blowing away most of the crap the Xbone and PS4 has. The games coming are looking great and people are still buying the thing so what exactly is your argument that its dead?

Still selling, still has active development, is now pulling in a profit. It could be better, it could use more/better third party support but its not dead by any stretch of the imagination.

Now, move along and go get your attention elsewhere.
 
Disposed said:
...Clearly the Wii U is not dead...
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You should refer to the original post. Or http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041351374&postcount=3210

Most of this thread has been the equivalent of:
"the sky is blue"
"No, the ocean is wet"
"The sky is still blue"
"No, squares have four sides"
"That does not change the fact that the sky is blue"
"No, four quarters is worth the same as one dollar"
...
 
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Lets try something. Consider one already has a gaming PC. Lets make a list of Wii-U, PS4, and Xbone exclusives. Lets tally up which system has more awesome games. Keep in mind you have a gaming PC. GO.
 
Mozex said:
You should refer to the original post. Or http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041351374&postcount=3210

Most of this thread has been the equivalent of:
"the sky is blue"
"No, the ocean is wet"
"The sky is still blue"
"No, squares have four sides"
"That does not change the fact that the sky is blue"
"No, four quarters is worth the same as one dollar"
...
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That post is a crock of shit. You don't get to change the definition of a word to suit your argument. Again it's not dead and he can go seek his attention elsewhere and take you with him. It's not our job to convince him of anything and he's not the fucking authority on whether or not a console is dead.

So again the console is not dead by any definition of the word.
 
Don't shoot the messenger. If two people can't agree what they're arguing about it isn't actually an argument ...
 
Picked up Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze today.. Holy shit.. An actual modern CHALLENGING, controller tossing platformer that isn't Rayman.
 
Mozex said:
Don't shoot the messenger. If two people can't agree what they're arguing about it isn't actually an argument ...
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What the fuck are you talking about?

It's not a matter if agreeing it's a matter of him twisting the definition of words to fit an argument. Frankly it's just trolling at this point. He's just out to piss people off. There's no argument for him to win no misunderstanding of what's being argued. Buy a dictionary, look up dead and move the fuck on.
 
5e8.jpg
 
Disposed said:
What the fuck are you talking about?

It's not a matter if agreeing it's a matter of him twisting the definition of words to fit an argument. Frankly it's just trolling at this point. He's just out to piss people off. There's no argument for him to win no misunderstanding of what's being argued. Buy a dictionary, look up dead and move the fuck on.
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But the key word is not dead, it's done. Inkarnaris definition at the start of this thread was low sales, distant third place and irrelevancy in the market.

Iirc Stevedave (or someone) gave a broad definition of Nintendo or the Wii U as a whole and other than Nintendo makes good games every other point they listed was a negative actually and not a positive.

They are done in every imaginable way other than they release a good game every quarter. The problem is that is not doing anything to change the situation for the Wii U.

Nor is it changing my overall three talking points of which no one has actively tried to seriously debate. Freaky tried, but unfortunately he regurgitated the same responses that have been dismissed.

Done=/=Dead

I even said 18 months ago that Nintendo has to keep supporting the Wii U and those who have already purchased the console will have a modest Nintendo library before it goes EOL.
 
TheToE! said:
Lets try something. Consider one already has a gaming PC. Lets make a list of Wii-U, PS4, and Xbone exclusives. Lets tally up which system has more awesome games. Keep in mind you have a gaming PC. GO.
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What if you're one of the 270 million console base of people that don't like Nintendo games?

*its about 259 million people at this stage.
 
Let's just all agree the next-Jin is right and acknowledge his expertise on the topic. Then, maybe, he'll STFU and go away.
 
next-Jin said:
What if you're one of the 270 million console base of people that don't like Nintendo games?

*its about 259 million people at this stage.
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That's not what we're talking about. I am simply asking for a list of exlusives on each console, to tally them up, and then see which has more awesome games.
 
next-Jin said:
But the key word is not dead, it's done. Inkarnaris definition at the start of this thread was low sales, distant third place and irrelevancy in the market.

Iirc Stevedave (or someone) gave a broad definition of Nintendo or the Wii U as a whole and other than Nintendo makes good games every other point they listed was a negative actually and not a positive.

They are done in every imaginable way other than they release a good game every quarter. The problem is that is not doing anything to change the situation for the Wii U.

Nor is it changing my overall three talking points of which no one has actively tried to seriously debate. Freaky tried, but unfortunately he regurgitated the same responses that have been dismissed.

Done=/=Dead

I even said 18 months ago that Nintendo has to keep supporting the Wii U and those who have already purchased the console will have a modest Nintendo library before it goes EOL.
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They are done in every imaginable way? What the fuck us wrong with you? Sales are picking up, games are still being released and they are bringing in a profit. It's not done by any definition.

Again, buy a fucking dictionary and move on. I'm not going to engage your argument and try and price you wrong because it's bullshit rugby of the bat.

You're taking your OPINION of the console and trying to argue that OPINION as though it's a universal fact. That's not an argument worth engaging because it's stupid. Beyond that the way you word everything and carry yourself here is pure troll.

You don't want an actual discussion you just want to bash the thing you don't like. You keep telling people to price you wrong when you're just arguing your opinion ave clearly have no desire to change your mind. So cut the shit, you've said your peace now move on and cut the pretense of pretending to want a discussion.
 
Disposed said:
You're taking your OPINION of the console and trying to argue that OPINION as though it's a universal fact.
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It's the neogaf way, don't waste your time. Nintendo will be fine but they are just biding their time to re-enter the console market with a machine that appeals to 3rd party devs. They don't really have to worry about that in the handheld market since they are the only real option (vita sucks) and the slow decline of handhelds due to smartphones/tablets still gives them some time to come up with a solution.
 
Holy shit...

Swype, making me look stupid since 2011. Not even going to try and fix that mess.
 
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