The "What's your Water-cooling System's Flow Philosophy" Poll

What's your Water-cooling System's Flow Philosophy?


  • Total voters
    138

Cathar

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This is a crazy little idea that I had to attempt to bring us all together more as a community to better understand our philosophical positions when it comes to our water-cooling loop setups. There seems to have been too much time spent nit-picking on high-flow/low-flow, and this and that, when it's my personal perception that sometimes we're really splitting hairs.

So I thought that this little questionnaire might be a way to assist people to understand what philosophical category that their water-cooling loop sits in purely in terms of the components that directly affect flow rate. There are some inaccuracies and necessary generalisations to keep the ranking system simple, but I think overall it does a pretty decent job of ranking one's system.

It's a short 6 question test, and you add up the points from your answer from each of the 6 questions. Find your total and look at the poll options and that will be the philosophical flow-rate category that the components that make up your water-cooling system falls into.


Point-based Questionnaire

Important: If you are using multiple cooling loops, then just answer for the cooling loop that your CPU is cooled with.


Question 1 - What is your pump's rated peak flow rate?

N.B. If you are using multiple pumps in series, then use the rating of the pump with the highest flow rate. If you are using multiple pumps in parallel, then add all the pump flow ratings together.

Choose a single most applicable answer.

[+30 points] - Less than or equal to 1LPM or 60LPH or 0.26GPM or 16GPH
[+20 points] - Less than or equal to 2LPM or 120LPH or 0.53GPM or 32GPH
[+13 points] - Less than or equal to 3LPM or 180LPH or 0.80GPM or 48GPH
[+9 points] - Less than or equal to 4LPM or 240LPH or 1.06GPM or 64GPH
[+6 points] - Less than or equal to 5LPM or 300LPH or 1.32GPM or 79GPH
[+4 points] - Less than or equal to 6LPM or 360LPH or 1.60GPM or 95GPH
[+3 points] - Less than or equal to 9LPM or 540LPH or 2.34GPM or 143GPH
[+2 points] - Less than or equal to 14LPM or 840LPH or 3.70GPM or 222GPH
[+1 points] - Less than or equal to 20LPM or 1200LPH or 5.3GPM or 317GPH
[+0 points] - Greater than 20LPM or 1200LPH or 5.3GPM or 317GPH


Question 2 - What is your pump's rated peak pressure head?

N.B. If you are using multiple pumps in series, then add all the pump pressure ratings together. If you are using multiple pumps in parallel, use the rating of the pump with the highest pressure rating.

Choose a single most applicable answer.

[+8 points] - Less than or equal to 0.6m or 2'
[+6 points] - Less than or equal to 1.0m or 3.3'
[+5 points] - Less than or equal to 1.4m or 4.6'
[+4 points] - Less than or equal to 1.8m or 6'
[+3 points] - Less than or equal to 2.4m or 8'
[+2 points] - Less than or equal to 4.0m or 13'
[+1 points] - Less than or equal to 6.0m or 20'
[+0 points] - Greater than 6.0m or 20'


Question 3 - What is the tubing inner diameter (ID) size used in your setup?

N.B. If you are using multiple tubing types, use the smallest tubing ID size in your answer.

Choose a single most applicable answer.

[+20 points] - Smaller than 4mm or 5/32"
[+10 points] - 4mm or 5/32"
[+8 points] - 5mm or 3/16"
[+6 points] - 6mm or 1/4"
[+5 points] - 7mm
[+4 points] - 8mm or 5/16"
[+2 points] - 9mm or 10mm or 3/8"
[+1 points] - 11mm or 12mm or 7/16"
[+0 points] - 12.7mm or 1/2" or larger


Question 4 - How many waterblocks are in your loop?

Choose a single most applicable answer.

[+8 points] - 6+ blocks
[+7 points] - 5 blocks
[+6 points] - 4 blocks
[+4 points] - 3 blocks
[+2 points] - 2 blocks
[+0 points] - 1 block


Question 5 - What are your fitting types?

Choose a single most applicable answer.

[+4 points] - Quick Disconnect (ones that don't leak water when disconnected)
[+1 points] - Barbed or Compression
[+0 points] - Push-fit


Question 6 - What is your radiator type?

If you are using multiple radiators, choose the answer that gives the highest point value.

[+3 points] - Continuous looping-tube style radiator
[+0 points] - Heater-core style radiator (multiple parallel flat tubes)


End Of Questionnaire

Add up the point totals from each of your 6 answers and refer to the poll options to find your flow philosophy category.
 

Top Nurse

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I likes it! :D

I have a nice solid Aqua Computer setup and I scored a 10. So that puts me in the moderate flow category. Don't believe everything those water cooling manufacturer's tell you about whether their products are low flow or high flow systems. Sometimes they cheat ;)
 

madmat

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I picked first without reading the post (oops) and picked moderate/high flow then tallied up my setup and scored an 8 which fits in with my choice so I don't feel quite as foolish for jumping the gun.

One thing though, the PQ curve for my pump is actually pretty impressive, it's rated at 6' head but according to it's rating at 4' head it's still pushing 200GPH and at 5' it's at over 100GPH which is (to me at least) pretty damned impressive.


That's the advertised curve.
 

madmat

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I'm just wondering, Bio-Hazzard, have you ever considered running your rads in parallel rather than in series? It would slow down the flow through each rad a bit as well as lowering the flow resistance seen by the pump which should in turn provide you with faster flow through the rest of your loop.

Just kind of curious since I'm running both of my rads in series as well and I've been hassled by my friends about it.
 

Cathar

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madmat said:
One thing though, the PQ curve for my pump is actually pretty impressive, it's rated at 6' head but according to it's rating at 4' head it's still pushing 200GPH and at 5' it's at over 100GPH which is (to me at least) pretty damned impressive.
<snip image>
That's the advertised curve.
That's actually a decent moderate-highish powered pump. What pump is it?

Just for comparison, here's the PQ curve for the pump that I use, although I don't normally run it at full speed ('cos it is overpowered otherwise), and I can over-volt it up to 25% beyond its rated curve shown below.

http://www.employees.org/~slf/images/rd30pq.png
 

Cathar

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condac said:
Got 15, but I don't realy understand the rating.
Okay, my thinking on it was this.

Ignoring the specific resistance of the waterblocks you install, what are the base componentry of the water-cooling loop condusive to allowing in terms of a range of flow rates.

Ultra Low Flow is <0.5 LPM
Very Low Flow is 0.5 - 1.0 LPM
Low Flow is 1.0 - 2.0 LPM
Low-Moderate Flow is 2.0 - 3.0 LPM
Moderate Flow is 3.0 - 4.5 LPM
Moderate-High Flow is 4.5 - 6.0 LPM
High Flow is 6.0 - 12.0LPM
Very High Flow is >12LPM

Now of course if you stick a super-restrictive block into your loop your actual flow rates may be less than your componentry rating, but that's your choice to stick that block in there and has nothing to do with what the pump, fittings, tubing, and radiator are capable of supporting in a general sense.

i.e. not considering the resistance that your blocks offer, what is the inherent flow-philosophy of the componentry that makes up your water-cooling loop? Is it a "high flow" condusive loop with free-flowing components? Or is it more moderate? Or is it really low flow?
 

Bio-Hazard

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madmat said:
I'm just wondering, Bio-Hazzard, have you ever considered running your rads in parallel rather than in series? It would slow down the flow through each rad a bit as well as lowering the flow resistance seen by the pump which should in turn provide you with faster flow through the rest of your loop.

Just kind of curious since I'm running both of my rads in series as well and I've been hassled by my friends about it.
RoboTech over at System Cooling suggested that I try the samething, he says that it may drop temps down a bit, in theory anyway. I might try it after I get my replacement PSU and the system is up and running again............ :eek:
 

madmat

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Cathar said:
That's actually a decent moderate-highish powered pump. What pump is it?

Just for comparison, here's the PQ curve for the pump that I use, although I don't normally run it at full speed ('cos it is overpowered otherwise), and I can over-volt it up to 25% beyond its rated curve shown below.

http://www.employees.org/~slf/images/rd30pq.png
That pump is crazy!! What is it?? I'm running a Rainbow Lifeguard Quiet One 1200, it's rated at 296GPH at freeflow but the upper head figures are what attracted me to it.

At the price it's a good pump, with the pump, shipping and fittings it runs about $30 U.S. and it has a nice feature in that unlike a pump with a modded vane assembly it will fire up and run as soon as power is supplied to it and the vanes are already locked to the stator so it doesn't clatter.
 

Top Nurse

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madmat said:
That pump is crazy!! What is it?? I'm running a Rainbow Lifeguard Quiet One 1200, it's rated at 296GPH at freeflow but the upper head figures are what attracted me to it.
LOL! I used to have a Rainbow Lifeguard pump 15 years ago in my 60 gallon salt water tank.
 

Ultragamma

Weaksauce
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Jan 28, 2005
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I have a DDC, cpu block + gpu block, 2x 120 rad, and 3/8" tubing, which yields me at 11 points. So i guess i am in the Moderate flow cat. However, i am scratching my head so hard not figuring out how did TN get a 10??

Aquastream pump
300-500lph? 1.2-2.1M head?
cpu block+ gpu Block, and NB block
8mm tubings?

No way that equals 10 unless you want to lie about your low flow ac setup.
 

wwparrish

Limp Gawd
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Nov 18, 2004
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4 /cry I drilled out those barbed fittings for nothing ! hmmm that valved fill line doesnt really NEED to be there.
 

Ultragamma

Weaksauce
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and your point is????



Aquastream is 300-500lph --->> 4 pts,
head is 2.1m max->>> 4pts.
6mm tubing -->> 6pts.
I see someone just slap herself right on the mouth.
 

Top Nurse

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Ultragamma said:
and your point is????
Aquastream is 300-500lph --->> 4 pts,
head is 2.1m max->>> 4pts.
6mm tubing -->> 6pts.
I see someone just slap herself right on the mouth.
Question 1 - What is your pump's rated peak flow rate?

N.B. If you are using multiple pumps in series, then use the rating of the pump with the highest flow rate. If you are using multiple pumps in parallel, then add all the pump flow ratings together.

Choose a single most applicable answer.

[+2 points] - Less than or equal to 14LPM or 840LPH or 3.70GPM or 222GPH

Question 2 - What is your pump's rated peak pressure head?

N.B. If you are using multiple pumps in series, then add all the pump pressure ratings together. If you are using multiple pumps in parallel, use the rating of the pump with the highest pressure rating.

Choose a single most applicable answer.

[+3 points] - Less than or equal to 2.4m or 8'

Question 3 - What is the tubing inner diameter (ID) size used in your setup?

N.B. If you are using multiple tubing types, use the smallest tubing ID size in your answer.

Choose a single most applicable answer.

[+6 points] - 6mm or 1/4"

Question 4 - How many waterblocks are in your loop?

Choose a single most applicable answer.

[+0 points] - 1 block


Question 5 - What are your fitting types?

Choose a single most applicable answer.

[+0 points] - Push-fit

Question 6 - What is your radiator type?

If you are using multiple radiators, choose the answer that gives the highest point value.

[+0 points] - Heater-core style radiator (multiple parallel flat tubes)

Whoops! I was off by a point! What can I say...it was really late last night when I did that and I must not have been seeing right :eek:
 

Cathar

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C'mon guys - this is meant to help us all to see somewhat more eye to eye.

Ultragamma, the AquaStream is an over-volted Eheim 1046 that behaves somewhat like an Eheim 1048.
 

plywood99

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I'm a nice solid 11. Although I think closer to a 10 since I use 1/2" barbs with 3/8 tubing stretched over them.

I think as more people take the pole, we will see things a little different. By that I mean the so called high flow folks and low flow folks will meld together so to speak. Appears at the moment most folks are on the moderate flow side.

Granted poll is not perfect but is does give us a common ground to work from...
 

ikellensbro

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I got a 7, my 1048 loves being in such a simple loop with 1/2" tubing :D

Before I get into the rest of my post, here's a P-Q Curve chart from ProCooling:


TN, sorry, but I did much of the same calculations as you (assuming your Aquastream is set to 1048, maybe slightly higher flow), and your numbers are just a little bit too optimistsic:

#1: We both make the 2 point cutoff, as the 1048 has about 160gpm free-flow.
#2: The 1048 has 4.5' of head, a little on mine probably from being used, but let's give AC the benefit of the doubt and say the Aquastream can give more head than the 1048, and make the under 6' 4 point cutoff.
#3-6: Looks like you're correct, as you admitted to using 1/4" tubing, only a Cuplex XT, all push-fit fittings, and if you have a single pass BIP and not an old double pass, then that gives you a total of 2+4+6+0+0+0=12 points, putting you in the low-moderate flow category.
Yes, I'm on summer vacation right now, so I have time to be nitpicky with TN and do this poll's calculations 3 times (1 for the Good/Bad Radiator Aqua Computer Airplex Evo Radiator 160 thread post) :p

Back on topic, great idea Cathar, after reading your earlier posts where you theorize that a true low-flow kit might be 4*C hotter than a high flow kit, then perhaps could one theoretically compare their setup to be (their polled score)/10* hotter than a very high flow setup, assuming the same radiator and modern components?
 

Cathar

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ikellensbro said:
then perhaps could one theoretically compare their setup to be (their polled score)/10* hotter than a very high flow setup, assuming the same radiator and modern components?
No, I certainly would not go that far. The score system has nothing at all to do with temperatures and should not be used to draw that sort of conclusion.
 

madmat

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The only way that you could compare temps based on flow would be to use the same loop and vary the flows through it.

Trying to determine temps based on my setup and anyone else in my catagory won't have any validity due to different rads, airflow geometery, items being cooled and more importantly attitudes. What I might be willing to sacrafice for a good mix of sound to cooling someone else might not. So they'd have lower temps even though mine might be capable of them but I choose to forego the noise the higher fan settings will require.

Sorry to play in your sandbox Cathar, just thought I'd point out some flaws in trying to compare temps amongst the flow rates indicated here.
 

Cathar

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madmat said:
Sorry to play in your sandbox Cathar, just thought I'd point out some flaws in trying to compare temps amongst the flow rates indicated here.
No, that's quite alright. This thread is hopefully about encouraging a greater understanding of the design decisions between different systems and your post shows exactly why attempting to use a flow-regime category to define temps can't be done.

Happy that it's encouraging some sharing and productive thought.
 

CAD OC'er

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what are push-fit fittings and why would that denote less a point than that of barbs?
 

ikellensbro

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Sorry madmatt for getting Cathar to respond to my wishful thinking. That was just a coincidence, but this polling method should give us all some common ground for discussion, although it is very far from covering everything flow related in a loop. For example, the 1/2"od threaded barb I used on my 1048's output connection had 1/8" wall thickness (1/4"id, not good!) around the threaded connection, which would have cause more resistance than a normal 1/2"od barb with 1/8" walls (3/8"id). Still, great idea Cathar, maybe this can spread to any other forums where low flow vs. high flow tubing wars are happening ;)
 

Bio-Hazard

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Top Nurse said:
Because push-fits don't use any of the ID of the tube to hold onto the hose barb or compression fitting. It seals on the OD of the tube.

http://www.legris.com/website/v_en.nsf/vuid/Con32
That's 100% true on push fitting I must agree.............. :eek: But there are those of us with 1/2 inch setups that have drilled out the 1/2 barbs so there is no ID loss and I also use 5/8 barbs where space permits so there is zero ID loss.................. :D

5/8 barbs on dual heater core................;)
 

Cathar

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Unless you drill it out and then taper the inlet to a razor's edge, there will still be a lip-based transition between the tubing around the barb OD, and the barb ID.

Yes - you can greatly reduce that effect though by modding the barbs, in which case they may as well be +0, and this is generally referred to as "porting". It's just a general questionnaire, of course you can go nuts either way with 1/8" wall thickness 1/2" OD barbs (highly restrictive) or fully ported 1/2" OD barbs.

The barbs that I use on my stuff all have 1mm walls, so they're quite a deal better than the regular 1/2" OD barbs that have 3/8" ID.

Again, can swing it slightly either way - but as a guideline the rating system generally holds true.
 

Bio-Hazard

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I know porting all to well........this is the type of project where I do most of the porting.............. :eek:



Sorry about the off topic, thought people could use a break............. :D
 

Cathar

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Incidentally, what's the model description of that Thermaltake fan there. It looks at a glance to be very similar to the Tricod Science/Yate-Loon/Nexus fan-alikes, which all have excellent flow/noise characteristics.
 

Bio-Hazard

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It's a A1225L 12S 0.30 amp 1400 RPM @ 21 dba. I'm not sure of the CFM any more as it's not listed by TT anymore. It's made by Hong Sheng in China.
 

DFI Daishi

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should be no real supprise where i land on this poll.

interesting little commentary on barbs. the local fitting supply shop does not stock any barbs with thin walls, and since i was already looking at maybe getting some barbs that don't need thread adapters to work in my system, i might go for it if they can order some that are reasonably priced.
 

Cathar

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Bio-Hazard said:
It's a A1225L 12S 0.30 amp 1400 RPM @ 21 dba. I'm not sure of the CFM any more as it's not listed by TT anymore. It's made by Hong Sheng in China.
Yep. I have one here too than came with something else - it's the exact same fan as the Yate-Loon/Tricod-Science fans that I keep ranting about. The fact that it's sold by Thermaltake means nothing, as it's just an OEM rebadge.

Any idea what model it is sold separately as? I wasn't able to find them sold separately here in Australia, but they are really really nice quiet-computing radiator fans
 

Bio-Hazard

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As far as I know they only come with cases and such, I've tried to find then regular retail but haven't had any luck yet. I got the ones I have from take offs from customers computers when they want some sort of LED fan and most let me keep the stock fans.............. :eek:
 

Cathar

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Bio-Hazard said:
As far as I know they only come with cases and such, I've tried to find then regular retail but haven't had any luck yet. I got the ones I have from take offs from customers computers when they want some sort of LED fan and most let me keep the stock fans.............. :eek:
These fans are pure gold as far as near-silent water-cooling radiator fans go. If I were you I'd collect a whole bunch from customers and use them.

At 12v they aren't exactly silent - just quietish, but as you get below 10v they really quieten up nicely while still offering good air-flow.

These are the sorts of fans that I model my near-silent radiator cooling designs on.
 

Top Nurse

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So I am curious as to why you guys don't use push-fits? Seems you could really get some flow gains by actually having a true 1/2" ID. Also makes me realize that a 1/2" ID tube may only be seeing say 3/8" ID...so a 3/8" ID setup with push-fits may be a better way to go in that scenario?
 

DFI Daishi

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Top Nurse said:
So I am curious as to why you guys don't use push-fits? Seems you could really get some flow gains by actually having a true 1/2" ID. Also makes me realize that a 1/2" ID tube may only be seeing say 3/8" ID...so a 3/8" ID setup with push-fits may be a better way to go in that scenario?
availability, cost and what the equipment ships with has a pretty big impact on what users stick with.
 
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