The US Claims It Doesn't Need a Court Order to Ask Tech Companies to Build Encryption Backdoors

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Montu, Dec 6, 2017 at 9:40 AM.

  1. Montu

    Montu [H]ard DCOTM x4

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    According to documents released over the weekend, intelligence officials told the Senate Intelligence Committee there's no need to use the court system to ask tech companies to build backdoors into their products. Furthermore, they also said the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act allows them to force service providers to provide backdoors in their systems. Sounds like Big Brother is alive and well.

    In its answers, the government said it has "not to date" needed to ask the FISC to issue an order to compel a company to backdoor or weaken its encryption. The government would not say, however, if it's ever asked a company to add an encryption backdoor.
     
  2. gxp500

    gxp500 Limp Gawd

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    The American people say otherwise...
     
  3. trudude

    trudude [H]ard|Gawd

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    Literally every major OEM in the datacenter space has some kind of back door installed that allows the NSA and NRO full access. Major telecoms actually have entire floors in their facilities where people with up to Cosmic Crypto TS/SCI NOFORN work. I know this from first hand knowledge.
     
  4. katanaD

    katanaD Limp Gawd

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    Actually, sadly, they dont.

    At least not enough
     
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  5. BSmith

    BSmith [H]Lite

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    So much for checks and balances. Police state anyone? Here we come!

    Oh wait,...that probably wreaks of hyperbole. Then again, playing the apathy card may not be the best thing to do either.
     
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  6. Spaceninja

    Spaceninja Gawd

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    Communist-era Russia is so jealous of the spying technology the rest of the world has over it's citizens now. Everyone is guilty of some crime, no matter how small.
     
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  7. Retronym

    Retronym Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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  8. Nolan7689

    Nolan7689 Limp Gawd

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    I mean, honestly just from headline it makes perfect sense. Hell I could request companies to send me their backdoors. Nothing is stopping me, just like nothing would stop them from saying “up yours”.

    Compelling companies to put in a backdoor, without a court order though is fucked up. Wait, scratch that, compelling them with a court order is just as fucked up as well. Something something 4th amendment?
     
  9. Ultima99

    Ultima99 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I agree. Reek btw.
     
  10. ob1

    ob1 2[H]4U

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    Then you shouldn't be speaking about it on open forums...
     
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  11. Madoc

    Madoc Gawd

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    If people don't think this is already happening, I have a bridge to sell them.
     
  12. trudude

    trudude [H]ard|Gawd

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    I should absolutely be talking about it. Keeping secrets is dangerous for governments. They risk losing the confidence of the people if they constantly keep getting caught in lies.
     
  13. the-one1

    the-one1 2[H]4U

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    What is this 4th admendment thing you speak of? Is it some kind of soda pop flavor?
     
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  14. BSmith

    BSmith [H]Lite

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    Hehe. You know the only time a politician is telling the truth, while speaking in public?
    When he/she has stopped talking to take a drink from a glass of water. :)

    Nah, it is the 4th attempt to mend this leaky boat we are all trapped in.
     
  15. vegeta535

    vegeta535 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I think the government already lost the confidence of the people. They just don't care and we really can't do anything about it. We let the government get too big and now can do whatever they want.
     
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  16. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    This makes me so mad. :mad:

    The intelligence community just needs to be shut down completely. Their negative impact on society far outweighs their benefit at this point.
     
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  17. arnemetis

    arnemetis [H]ard|Gawd

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    If a backdoor is there for the NSA, it's there for anyone else who can find it. One day the complete list of backdoors will be released. Every single device on the planet will be fully accessible to anyone, and impossible to close. It will be complete chaos, everything will shut down. This is the only direction this can possibly go.
     
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  18. Grimlaking

    Grimlaking [H]ard|Gawd

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    That's like cutting off your arm because you keep whacking your funny bone on something. Sure you won't have that funny bone problem.. but you also won't be able to do anything else with that arm ever again.

    On topic though... the amount of money our Alphabet agencies... (federal not private) spend on gathering and collecting data on it's citizenry is just INSANE.

    But there are private companies that do things like.. Keep a copy of the internet....
     
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  19. jardows

    jardows Gawd

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    But what about the children?!?! We need this access so we can stop molesters and terrorists! Don't you want to feel safe in your own neighborhood??? That's all we are trying to do! Trust us - we're the government. We're only looking out for your best interest!!!
     
  20. triwolf

    triwolf Limp Gawd

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    Where are my fourth amendment rights? Idiots.
     
  21. tgom222

    tgom222 n00bie

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    Big difference between "ask" and "force."

    Hopefully companies are saying no when being asked, but they probably aren't....
     
  22. triwolf

    triwolf Limp Gawd

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    Traitors all of them. What a travesty of logic this world has become. So much retard it hurts.
     
  23. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I can't say I have ever heard of COSMIC.

    But, because the DoD does use commercial telecoms to support communications, it makes sense that as a defense contractor, (and that does make them a defense contractor), they would have cleared areas and workers just like Raytheon does for building missiles, etc. If a telecom wants to pursue work for sensitive military communications, they would have to meet all the requirements of a classified commercial work space. That doesn't mean necessarily that they are also conducting Intelligence gather operation within that facility although that too is a possibility.

    I did find this reference, but it's wrong, still I'll link it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._security_clearance_terms
    I say it's wrong because there is nothing "higher" than Top Secret. CRYPTO isn't a classification level, it's a compartment. It does make sense that communications related secrets involving encryption would bear this name. The communications channels we use for classified work are pretty much the most closely guarded secrets because with those people might could get everything else. It's why during the cold war the Soviets made huge efforts to compromise communications channels. It's the equavelant of what the US did in gaining access to the German's Enigma Machine in WW2.

    But this article gets something wrong.
    This statement isn't even close to true. There are fast areas of Intelligence collection that has nothing at all to do with FISA. If someone is only talking about the specific parts of the Intel community that is impacted by FISA, then this is not a bad statement. It's just that there is so much more, FISA covers a fraction of the action.
     
  24. bigthoughts

    bigthoughts [H]Lite

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  25. Simmonz

    Simmonz 2[H]4U

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    Still the land of the free there ? Seems like it's just the land of "corporations and the government are free to fuck you up the ass".
     
  26. umeng2002

    umeng2002 Limp Gawd

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    Spy on everyone, prosecute the people you don't like... Terrorists, Trump administration members, etc...

    The deep state is real. It seems like they choose who runs the government, not the people. Everyone has dirt, they choose who to expose for their own agenda.
     
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  27. Hakaba

    Hakaba Limp Gawd

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    Makes me wonder if you have informed your SO/agency that vetted your clearance how you feel.

    Especially since it seems that it won’t take much for you to let info out since “keeping secrets is dangerous”.
     
  28. trudude

    trudude [H]ard|Gawd

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    There are differing opinions within compartmentalized special access groups. Some want the people to know others don't. At the end of the day it is a wash.
     
  29. ob1

    ob1 2[H]4U

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    You are right, there should be no clandestine operations in the world. So show us these back doors you viewed directly and first hand. Let use see them, because frankly, they could be normal stuff. If you aren't part of an ops crew for the NSA/NRO, then show us what you have seen. Lets talk about it openly.
     
  30. trudude

    trudude [H]ard|Gawd

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    I didn't say there should be no clandestine operations in the world. If I speak specifically about backdoors I will be sued. Many of the backdoors exist on director networking appliances on the backbones of entire datacenters and operate over non-standard protocols. ;)
     
  31. trudude

    trudude [H]ard|Gawd

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    I will put some of your minds at ease though because the backdoors are not really meant for spying on average Joe. The backdoors are for corporate espionage. Government connected corporations stealing intellectual property from their competition.
     
  32. Hakaba

    Hakaba Limp Gawd

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    Regardless people’s differing opinions, the underlying rule is to not disclose information to people who do not have a need to know and are not cleared.

    Your opinion or coworkers opinion is irrelevant.

    Seeing the above post now, not engaging with you anymore on the subject.
     
  33. trudude

    trudude [H]ard|Gawd

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    Haha ok.
     
  34. viper1152012

    viper1152012 Limp Gawd

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    Sounds like they are getting desperate to violate citizens security
     
  35. OnceSetThisCannotChange

    OnceSetThisCannotChange n00bie

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    We more at the stage of Evil Dead II, where your hand is trying to get you, even after you cut it off, it won't stop attacking, and it will get away.
     
  36. triwolf

    triwolf Limp Gawd

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    No offense, but that doesn't make me feel any better. They still could use it against us average Joes, if and when they do no one knows. It's just so wrong, except the world really is not a good place, so it doesn't surprise me. The worst part is companies will say how secure their products are, full well knowing it's a lie.

    It's just like selling your soul even if you don't believe such things. No person should ever feel like they can do this to others, they deserve to be punished in this world and the hereafter if you ask me.
     
  37. __hollywood|meow

    __hollywood|meow [H]ard|Gawd

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    truly funny analogy - but in all honesty it needs to be razed to the ground & rebuilt, as their focuses have jumped the shark of their established intent for decades now...exactly like the tax code.
     
  38. theBrownLlama

    theBrownLlama [H]Lite

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    you leave those backdoors in, and you can be certain that not only the gov are the ones exploiting them
     
  39. naib

    naib Gawd

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    They are right, they can ask all they like.
    If they want to force they need a court order
     
  40. Olle P

    Olle P Limp Gawd

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    And these are the same ones that think Kaspersky AV is something to be worried about...
    If this gets approved I'll do my best to initiate a boycott against US software! Everything has to be rated as spyware until proven safe.