The Truth about OEM Vista and alternate install media

C

Catweazle

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Jan 20, 2004
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I've been thinking about posting this for a couple of days or so, since yet another "I have 32-bit Vista OEM and want to use 64-bit instead" topic appeared. That question gets posted quite a bit, and every time it does it is met with a helluva lot of misunderstanding and misinformation. So here's the 'truth' of it all. The following is fact, not opinion :D


If you have 32-bit OEM Vista, and want to use 64-bit Vista instead, you are most likely screwed for legality and legitimacy. If you want your 64-bit install to be 'legal' you're most likely gonna have to buy another license.

The ONLY circumstance in which you can legitimately change from 32-bit Vista OEM to 64-bit Vista OEM (or vice versa) is if you got your OEM license in the form of pre-installed Vista on a prebuilt system, and the manufactuer of that system has a licensing arrangement which allows them to provide you with the alternate install media! That's it. Any other means of changing from one to the other will not have full legality/legitimacy. If you purchased an 'OEM System Builder Pack' to get your Vista license (which is what most people posting here will have done) then you are screwed because you are not legitimately entitled to use the alternate.

Why? Read on....




Licensor or End User?

Most people who try to tell you that "Yes. It is legal." will quote you stuff from the Vista EULA. (End User License Agreement). Wrong document, I'm afraid.

When you purchase a Vista OEM System Builder Pack to use on your system you acquire a split personality. You become both licensor (as soon as you open the pack) and end user after you install and start using the thing. There are differing legal rights and responsibilities attached to those roles, and you are obliged to meet the conditions of both roles. That's because, as a person purchasing and using Vista OEM for your rig you are deemed to be the 'System Builder' whose responsibility it is to (first) assign that license to a device and (second) provide product support for the end-user's usage of it. In addition to the EULA, you have to adhere to the conditions of the Microsoft OEM System Builder's license.




So why does that stop me?

As the System builder/licensor you are the person who 'distributes' the license to an end user and also the person who has to provide product support for it. And you can only legitimately distribute what you got in the pack! If your System Builder pack was 32-bit Vista then that's what you are allowed to distribute, in your role as System Builder/licensor. And as the person responsible for product support, to remain a 'legal' installation for the end user that alternate install media has to come from you, rather than from Microsoft. Kinda hard to legitimately distribute something you didn't get and aren't entitled to get, isn't it?




But I got my 64-bit disk from Microsoft so it must be legal!

I'm sorry, but "I got it" and "I was entitled to get it" aren't always the same thing.

Microsoft provides an 'OrderMedia' facility on its website for the benefit of Retail Vista customers (who purchase the right to use either install) and Software Assurance customers (who also purchase that right). OEM System Builder customers get rights to use one or the other install, in accordance with which was in the pack they purchased. The install keys attached to that licensing arrangment are not supposed to even work with the ordermedia website. If, by some fluke of luck, your OEM install key gets accepted by the ordermedia website then that's an error, not an indication of legitimacy.




So does that mean I can't use 64-bit Vista if I've purchased 32-bit OEM?

Nope. It does not mean that at all. It simply means that you cannot legitimately/legally use it.

In actual fact, if you use your OEM install key with either a 32-bit or a 64-bit Vista install disk, it'll still 'work'. It'll put a fully functional Vista installation in place. The checks and balances in place cannot adequately ensure that every aspect and nuance of legality is met in every installation. It is up to your own honesty and honour to ensure that you are meeting all the requirements of 'legality'.

You can easy enough get it 'working', if you get your hands on the alternate install disk. But if you've swapped over, you just plain ain't 'legal'. Those who'd try to convince you otherwise are wrong!

.
 
True, but does it really matter? MS cares that you bought a key, that they got their money, but do they really care if you install 64bit Home Premium oem instead of 32 Bit Home Premium oem? I personally don't think they do so long as it is a one key, one pc scenario. That is just my opinion however. I only have Ultimate and Business retail keys, so I am good however I go.

You do have a point though, like with some Xp: vlk, oem, and retail keys passed around on the warez sites, I can see MS at some point down the line possibly invalidating them with a WGA check, or by tweaking how and what activation looks at, or just black listing keys in a service pack. I doubt it would be specifically aimed at 32 bit oem keys used on 64 bit oem installs, but some of those might still get caught up in it. And that, might leave some people that bought 32bit oem wondering how to explain things when trying to reactivate their 64bit install over the phone. Without a legit leg to stand on at that. Would MS help them out in that situation? I don't know but, they prolly would not be obligated to.
 
GORANKAR said:
..but does it really matter?
Click to expand...


Topic has been posted for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, accuracy of information. Whenever this question arises we almost invariably see some people handing out comment which suggests that the toipic poster is 'allowed' to use either install. That's incorrect. "Able to" and "allowed to" aren't the same thing, and some people asking questions genuinely are concerned about remaining legitimate with their Windows installs.


Secondly, avoiding potential problems. Consider the scenario:

Somebody comes here and is told they are allowed to use the alternate install. Activation fails for them (it often does), so they need to telephone activate. They turn to the call centre operator and say they need to activate because they've changed from 32-bit to 64-bit. What's the outcome?

Truth is that the call centre person has been put on the spot in such a scenario. He or she is kinda obliged to say "No" to the activation, because the scenario described isn't a legitmate one. And the person trying to get their install activated has unknowingly made it hard for themself because they've volunteered unnecessary information based on wrongful advice.

I don't really think Microsoft would care all that much either. They aren't likely to be sending the 'piracy police' to break your door down over something like this. But there's no point either to being blase about it, or generating unnecessary inconveniences. Better to not put those call centre people on the spot, don't you think?


People didn't already know this?
Click to expand...
Ya think?

I guess that's why the umpteen thousandth time I've seen the question asked (and not very well answered) on this board was only a day or two back!
 
When I participated in the Windows Survey program, MS sent me 2 CD's of Ultimate 64 one 32bit and one 64bit. Each had their own key and they were different. so that would back up what the OP is saying about x32 and x64
 
Why not just buy the x64 version in the first place?

Personally though, I buy retail version. So far, It's saved me about $300, as OEM is bound to hardware.
 
the laptop I had did not come with x64 windows and unfortunately dell does not offer it to non enterprise customers. now having x64 was not going to deter me from buying dell's vostro 1400 as the good points definately outweigh not having x64
 
Hey, Weazle. Add to that, some Academic purchases are bound the same as an OEM, though the disks are different. I wish I knew exactly how that one works, though.
 
I'm glad to see the OP clearing up a lot of this as the number of threads regarding it are somewhat annoying.

Personally, I don't think it should matter whether the person installs 32 or 64 bit. It's basically the same OS and I don't think there is a difference in price between the OEM versions of the two (as I've never looked it up). However, that is just my opinion on the matter which has nothing to do with how MS has stuff setup.

 
Kil4Thril said:
Hey, Weazle. Add to that, some Academic purchases are bound the same as an OEM, though the disks are different. I wish I knew exactly how that one works, though.
Click to expand...

'Academic' can be a bit of a minefield, because there are so many different types of 'Academic' offers, but the general gist of it is this:

The Retail 'Academic Upgrade' packaged software, which comes in full blister case, works exactly the same way as all other Retail Microsot OS software in that it is a migrateable license (can be transferred to a new machine) and in that it entitles you to both install disks.

Retail Academic Upgrade software is pretty much the same as any other Retail software license. It's only available for Vista Home Premium. 'Eligibility requirements' apply only to right to purchase, not right to use. (And they vary from country to country, because the legal definition of 'Home Schooling' varies from country to country.) The only restriction placed on 'usage' is that the license doesn't cover commercial usage. You are supposed to use it for personal usage only, not in the workplace or on a machine where a home business is managed.

All other 'Academic' schemes in one way or another come under the complex umbrella of Volume Licensing. In some arrangments you don't actually ever become the license holder (even if the uni allows you to continue using after graduation) and are thus (legally) stuck with what you were initially provided. In some other arrangements the license actually does transfer after graduation, in perpetuity, but under those arrangements the University selling it to you is doing so because it has been deemed an 'Authorised Software Reseller' and those arrangements don't provide the capacity for you to be provided with alternate install media.

Like I said, it gets complicated. We explored it a while back, in another thread about access to 64-bit install disks, and I didn't cover it in this one mainly because I haven't mastered all the nuances of it.

SmokeRngs said:
I'm glad to see the OP clearing up a lot of this as the number of threads regarding it are somewhat annoying.

Personally, I don't think it should matter whether the person installs 32 or 64 bit. It's basically the same OS and I don't think there is a difference in price between the OEM versions of the two (as I've never looked it up). However, that is just my opinion on the matter which has nothing to do with how MS has stuff setup.
Click to expand...

On a 'personal opinion' level I have to agree. It defies all reason to effectively 'discourage' the more widespread adoption of 64-bit Windows in today's world, and I'd have thought it'd be more sensible to have the alternate install media not only available for all license holders but also freely and easily available via download.

But opinion regarding what 'should be' does not alter the reality of what 'is' :)
 
Yeah, that was me having issues. It wouldn't surprise me if that U32 license I have worked with the 64 bit media I now have retail. I'll try it when I need it.
 
Kil4Thril said:
It wouldn't surprise me if that U32 license I have worked with the 64 bit media
Click to expand...

That's an example of just what I posted this thread for. Careless wording which isn't accurate, and which can lead to misunbderstandings being fostered.

You 'license' is a contractual arrangement. If you have a 'license' to only use a 32-bit installation then it's not something which can 'work' with anything else.

The physical proof of license which you have is the COA sticker and your install key. Your install key almost certainly will 'work' with 64-bit install media to put a working installation in place, but that doesn't necessarily give you 'license' to use that installation.
 
Catweazle said:
That's an example of just what I posted this thread for. Careless wording which isn't accurate, and which can lead to misunbderstandings being fostered.

You 'license' is a contractual arrangement. If you have a 'license' to only use a 32-bit installation then it's not something which can 'work' with anything else.

The physical proof of license which you have is the COA sticker and your install key. Your install key almost certainly will 'work' with 64-bit install media to put a working installation in place, but that doesn't necessarily give you 'license' to use that installation.
Click to expand...

That's where it is odd as I can't find any mention in licensing or EULA's that specify this one either way. That's why I purchased a retail package- so I know exactly what I have. Why does MS make the licensing confusing anyway?
 
Kil4Thril said:
That's where it is odd as I can't find any mention in licensing or EULA's that specify this one either way. That's why I purchased a retail package- so I know exactly what I have. Why does MS make the licensing confusing anyway?
Click to expand...

If you buy a retail copy, you can use 32 or 64 bit with your key. As it is, store bought retail copies only have the 32 bit disc. You have to contact MS for the 64 bit disc or get the 64 bit disc some other way with the exception of Ultimate.

It's only OEM copies that are locked to 32 or 64 bit.

 
Kil4Thril said:
That's where it is odd as I can't find any mention in licensing or EULA's that specify this one either way. That's why I purchased a retail package- so I know exactly what I have. Why does MS make the licensing confusing anyway?
Click to expand...

The EULA is merely your rights and obligations as an end user/ It isn't the entirety of everything.

The real 'problem' here isn't that MS 'makes it confusing' (although I'll happily admit that they do). Instead the 'real problem' is that we have people buying (and advising others to buy) OEM System Builders packs under the misapprehension that they're just another, cheaper way to get Windows, and not otherwise different to the retail package/license. But with OEM System Builder packs you're not just 'buying Windows'. By purchasing and deploying an OEM license you are also incurring the responsibility of product support, and that includes unravelling the intricacies of licensing arrangements. You're supposed to be cluey enough to work it all out, if you're gonna take on that responsibility!


Want everything all worked out for you? There's an alternative available for that, but it costs a bit more. It's called a 'retail license'.
 
AVT said:
Why not just buy the x64 version in the first place?

Personally though, I buy retail version. So far, It's saved me about $300, as OEM is bound to hardware.
Click to expand...

Sorry AVT. I meant to respond to that but kinda 'missed it' on the way past :)


There are some circumstances where that sage advice just doesn't 'fit' the realities.

For starters, if the OEM license is one which has been acquired preinstalled on a prebuilt rig, the system manufacturer just may not provide alternate install media for you. In that circumstance, whilst yes,alternate install media will work with your install key, if you can somehow get your hands on it, it don't make the install legal. And whilst to some people (me included, to be quite honest) that "wouldn't matter", to other people retaining legality/legitimacy is an important consideration. Their views and wishes deserve to be respected. It's a shame that the only options available to those people are either cpmpromising their sense of marality or purchasing a new license!

There's also the circumstance of a 'naive shopper' who has purchased the product not realising that it doesn't meet the intended purposes, and then not used it until such time as it is too late to go get it replaced or get a refund on it.

And then, of course, there are the people who've gone shopping armed with the 'informed advice' they've obtained from message boards such as this'n, only to find later that the advice they were given was misleading or incorrect :D
 
My belief is that the primary reason that they did not, from the get go, allow for alternative media for OEM keys is one that no longer really applies. MS and the OEM's were most likely afraid people might jump on the 64bit wagon. On it's face that sounds like a good thing. And it is imo, as long as the OEM build or laptop actually had 64bit drivers available. At Vista's launch that was not the case for everything on the shelves. Especially in the laptop market of the time. (Of course, now, just about everything has Vista 64bit drivers and that reasoning no longer really applies.) MS and the OEM's would have caught the bad rap on that, had they just handed out 64bit media to people that had 32bit OEM pre-installed on a laptop or OEM pc that did not have Vista64 drivers. The OEM's and MS did not want the tech support mess, or bad press that would cause.


Cat is correct, it is prolly a problem waiting to happen if you choose to go that way. Easier to avoid the issue by buying 64bit from the start. Or insuring that any OEM pc or laptop you buy already has 64bit installed. Or at least knowing you are not totally legit when you do so and that there may be problems later.

Again, I do not believe MS will intentionally try to prevent anyone from doing the switch. But they don't have to help you with it either. Do what you want, accept the consequences.
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
When I participated in the Windows Survey program, MS sent me 2 CD's of Ultimate 64 one 32bit and one 64bit. Each had their own key and they were different. so that would back up what the OP is saying about x32 and x64
Click to expand...

Those were actually full retail versions and both keys were allowed to be used on either 32bit or 64 bit (of course the one install per key rule still applies). At least that's what the MS rep said in the original thread discussing the issue.


For those that want it, here's the link to the System Builder's license that you agree to when you open the package.

http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/2008_SB_Licenses/FY08_SB_License_English.pdf

The relevant terms that this thread discusses are:
1. Defnitions.
b. “Distribution” and “distribute” mean the point in time when a Customer System leaves your control.

e. “Pack” means this package of Microsoft Software or Hardware.

f. “Software” means the Microsoft software inside the Pack. A unit of Software includes any software media,
documentation, certifcate of authenticity (“COA”) label, end user license terms and security devices.
Click to expand...
5. Distribution.
a. Software Preinstallation.
i. For each unit of Software in the Pack, you must pre-install one copy of the Software on a Customer System prior
to distribution. If the Software includes more than one language version, you must install only one language
version.
Click to expand...
 
GORANKAR said:
... Or at least knowing you are not totally legit when you do so and that there may be problems later.

Again, I do not believe MS will intentionally try to prevent anyone from doing the switch. But they don't have to help you with it either. Do what you want, accept the consequences.
Click to expand...

There will be no problems later. I've yet to hear of a single case where someone who actually made an attempt couldn't get a 64bit copy of Vista activated with a key originally used to install a 32bit OEM licensed copy, and once you're activated... you're home free. Point me to a single case where a legal key has been deactived because it was found to be in use with the wrong installation media.

Calling this piracy is scaremongering, and suggesting that people spend another $90+ on what is for all intents and purposes the same software to "be legit" as per a few clauses in an EULA is irresponsible and foolish. Microsoft does not care. They've proven this on occasions innumerable. That should be good enough for you -- after all, they wrote and distributed the software, not you. Were they at all concerned, they would've locked the keys to 32bit or 64bit media.

(This is directed more at the OP than GORANKAR.)
 
silent-circuit said:
There will be no problems later. I've yet to hear of a single case where someone who actually made an attempt couldn't get a 64bit copy of Vista activated with a key originally used to install a 32bit OEM licensed copy, and once you're activated... you're home free. Point me to a single case where a legal key has been deactived because it was found to be in use with the wrong installation media.

Calling this piracy is scaremongering, and suggesting that people spend another $90+ on what is for all intents and purposes the same software to "be legit" as per a few clauses in an EULA is irresponsible and foolish. Microsoft does not care. They've proven this on occasions innumerable. That should be good enough for you -- after all, they wrote and distributed the software, not you. Were they at all concerned, they would've locked the keys to 32bit or 64bit media.

(This is directed more at the OP than GORANKAR.)
Click to expand...

No one is calling this piracy. In fact, it was even mentioned that Microsoft probably didn't care. It was also said that this topic was aimed for those individuals that for various reasons do care if their install is legitimate. Just because it activates doesn't mean that MS can't turn around and crack down on license legitimacy.


The problem is, people on here are saying switching an OEM install from one media type to another is perfectly fine when the fact is it's not. It's up to the individuals that are asking these questions how legitimate they want or need to be. If they don't care than I don't, but I and others here are not going to give blatantly false information just because MS hasn't taken action up to this point.
 
Speaking of licensing and such...

If I have an OEM key from an OEM manufacture, can I use other media then what was provided to do a fresh install? Say I bought a dell and I want to do an install from "clean" media and use the key from my COA on the bottom of the laptop. Can I do that?
 
sc0tty8 said:
Speaking of licensing and such...

If I have an OEM key from an OEM manufacture, can I use other media then what was provided to do a fresh install? Say I bought a dell and I want to do an install from "clean" media and use the key from my COA on the bottom of the laptop. Can I do that?
Click to expand...
If it's an OEM disc.
 
Wrong, bigdogchris. A Vista installation disk can be used with an install key from a different license type or even with an install key from a different version type. The disk contents are the same - only the printed labels are different.

It is quite possible that AFTER installation automatic activation might fail with a "Key already in use" error message, but then that can also happen when you re-use your same disk to reinstall. It only takes a phone call to the activation people to get fixed, if that happens.

There are lots and lots of people who have used a retail Vista disk to reinstall prebuilt laptops and desktops, because they wanted an installation without all the proprietary manufacturer preinstalled software present.
 
Catweazle said:
Wrong, bigdogchris. A Vista installation disk can be used with an install key from a different license type or even with an install key from a different version type. The disk contents are the same - only the printed labels are different.

It is quite possible that AFTER installation automatic activation might fail with a "Key already in use" error message, but then that can also happen when you re-use your same disk to reinstall. It only takes a phone call to the activation people to get fixed, if that happens.

There are lots and lots of people who have used a retail Vista disk to reinstall prebuilt laptops and desktops, because they wanted an installation without all the proprietary manufacturer preinstalled software present.
Click to expand...

I did it on my Dell and Gateway desktops, and my Toshiba laptop. Also work with my mom's Sony, and other friend's HP, Dell, and Gateway laptops.
 
Is there a way to DL the media from MS legally? I really don't want to pay for it, I am cheap like that, and I don't want to warez it. I know MS has win2k8 server so you can DL it, but I wasn't abl to find any vista thing like that.
 
sc0tty8 said:
Is there a way to DL the media from MS legally?
Click to expand...

No. Not for general usage purposes, anyway. Those people who have TechNet subscriptions can, of course, dowload installation image files for all the software they are entitled to access to, but Microsoft does not make such downloads generally available.

If you've purchased retail (and didn't get Ultimate which has both disks already in the pack) Microsoft will send you a 64-bit install disk for only postage and handling costs. Other license types don't entitle you to one, though.
 
If you purchased Vista online from Microsoft's digital store, you can create install media from the resulting files; I've done it before.
 
Catweazle said:




Licensor or End User?

When you purchase a Vista OEM System Builder Pack to use on your system you acquire a split personality. You become both licensor (as soon as you open the pack) and end user after you install and start using the thing. There are differing legal rights and responsibilities attached to those roles, and you are obliged to meet the conditions of both roles. That's because, as a person purchasing and using Vista OEM for your rig you are deemed to be the 'System Builder' whose responsibility it is to (first) assign that license to a device and (second) provide product support for the end-user's usage of it. In addition to the EULA, you have to adhere to the conditions of the Microsoft OEM System Builder's license.




So why does that stop me?

As the System builder/licensor you are the person who 'distributes' the license to an end user and also the person who has to provide product support for it. And you can only legitimately distribute what you got in the pack! If your System Builder pack was 32-bit Vista then that's what you are allowed to distribute, in your role as System Builder/licensor. And as the person responsible for product support, to remain a 'legal' installation for the end user that alternate install media has to come from you, rather than from Microsoft. Kinda hard to legitimately distribute something you didn't get and aren't entitled to get, isn't it?


.
Click to expand...


So what if I order my PC from a build to order store? Then I am not the system builder, only the end user, which accroding to you, means I am not bended by the conditions of the Microsoft OEM System Builder's license. So that means I can run the visit 32 bit even if I ordered 64 bit version with my computer?
 
There's no "according to me" about it at all. what I've laid out above is the fact of licensing legalities, not my supposition or opinion of it.




In the example above - a corner 'pooter shop selling a prebuilt system to you:

Depends if the OS is preinstalled or sold to you as an unopened System Builder Pack, really, but either way you're still likely SOL. If it's preinstalled then the vendor is licensor, and you (legally) gotta get the alternate install media from there. Good luck! Here's me betting they'll say "No, we don't do that!" If you've been sold an unopened SB Pack to accompany the not-preinstalled OS-less box then you'll become both licensor and end-user, as described.
 
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