The state of VR - Lost it's steam?

Discussion in 'VR & Head-Mounted Displays' started by Factum, May 31, 2019.

  1. Lifelite

    Lifelite 2[H]4U

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    The thing with Elite is the fact it's basically a "Space Pilot" sim...and all the boring grind that comes with it. That being said, I fucking love that game.
     
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  2. RazorWind

    RazorWind 2[H]4U

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    The thing that really boggles my mind is that the deathmatch fighter mode is SO much fun, yet nobody plays it. :(

    The fighters aren't terribly useful in the main game, but they're a blast to fly in VR. I wish the whole game could just be that.
     
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  3. Lifelite

    Lifelite 2[H]4U

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    Fucking queue times...UGH
     
  4. RazorWind

    RazorWind 2[H]4U

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    Indeed. I've actually gotten into a match exactly one time, and it was fun as hell. Maybe because I absolutely wrecked my singular opponent. :D I don't understand why no one plays it.

    I hesitate to try the team modes because... Generally not having to deal with people is one of the things I like most about Elite. That said, my CMDR name is TheChafing. I'd be totally down to play the CQC mode, if you care to team up.
     
  5. NamelessPFG

    NamelessPFG Gawd

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    I only recently got to learn this the hard way, as I'm still using the same GTX 980 that I had shortly before I got the Rift CV1 in 2016 - back when it cost $600, and another $200 for the Touch controllers, and another $80 per IR camera sensor. Yeah, I'm kicking myself hard in hindsight.

    It was adequate enough for a lot of VR stuff, but DCS World is hell on my framerate. Can't even maintain 45 FPS doing a free flight in the AV8B Harrier, let alone doing anything interesting like aerial refueling or blowing up stuff.

    Then I got to bring home an RTX 2080 for diagnostics purposes, popped it in... holy shit. I'm talking double the framerate here, night and day, not quite a solid 90 FPS, but consistently above 80 FPS without changing a single other thing in my system. Too bad it wasn't mine to keep.

    Thing is, I don't have $700 to blow on one graphics card (I only paid $315 shipped for the GTX 980 back in late 2015, when you'd normally only get a 970 for that much), and most people aren't like me, already packing a desktop with an i7-4770K jacked up to 4.6 GHz or better, 32 GB of DDR3-2400, and a PCIe slot ready to accept a decent GPU. Most people are stuck on laptops with integrated graphics and no Thunderbolt 3.0, and "VR ready" laptops are still firmly in the $1,000+ range. That is what limits VR adoption for the sort of AAA gaming we're used to.

    And of course, the Rift CV1 still only provides 1080x1200 per eye, a lot of which is wasted on the periphery of each eye buffer. I dare not imagine the kind of GPU load it'd take to do 4K or even 8K per eye. VR's high-framerate, low-latency requirements make flat 4K gaming look like easy mode by comparison.

     
  6. SuperSubZero

    SuperSubZero 2[H]4U

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    The old MS game Allegiance was the closest I ever got to that utopian massive space battle with fighters buzzing all around and exploding and capital ships and just unadulterated chaos of war. It only had like what, 36 players, but made battle inevitable in a tight space so it was really fun. I bought a joystick just for that game.

    If they could scale that experience up to thousands of players in VR I'd be in my happy place.
     
  7. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It's has definitely dropped out of the mainstream news.

    Mainstream GPU reviews don't bother testing VR performance.

    IMO is that it will always be a small niche, never really breaking through.

    High novelty factor, but high irritation factor, novelty wears off for most people, irritation doesn't.

    I bet a lot of VR rigs are gathering dust 6 months after purchase, much like the pattern described here:

    I Am Already Starting To Regret Buying An Oculus Quest
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  8. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I wonder how many people said that very same thing about an item, and it grew to be used worldwide. Hmmmm.

    Also VR is not only for gaming or watching movies. The applications for business and such is growing as well.
     
  9. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Depends if it was something like a novelty entertainment device that had a irritant factor, like 3D TV with 3D glasses, or something that was actually useful.
     
  10. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardForum Junkie

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  11. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 2[H]4U

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    Ha! I'm browsing/viewing this on a Quest right now using the Firefox Reality browser that's free with the Quest.
    No dust here...
     
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  12. NamelessPFG

    NamelessPFG Gawd

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    I think some people still play Allegiance today, and it's even up on Steam somewhere, but the community's a bit serious business about it, like having to go through a training program and pass an exam or something before you can join up with the usual groups.

    There is a learning curve involved, though, given that it's an RTS/space sim mashup. You still don't see a lot of that today, and Enemy Starfighter - er, House of the Dying Sun is the only other one I've seen that really attempts that fusion, although it's only singleplayer.

    As for the multiplayer experience, you may want to keep an eye on Infinity: Battlescape, which seems to have the "massive space battle with fighters and capital ships everywhere" bit down pat, complete with fleets duking it out for control over stations and planets, and plenty of NPC ships to fill in for any low player counts. It's still in the alpha stages, though, and I didn't pledge enough for early access.
     
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  13. funkydmunky

    funkydmunky 2[H]4U

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    I bought in to VR late last year. I will say from experience of myself and others it is the future. I have bought 10x more games on Steam in 6 months then I had in a decade all together. ALL VR! The industry loves us.
    I waited for a HMD with no screen door effect, no base stations and an affordable price. It was the Samsung Odyssey+ and I do not regret that purchase.
    The one thing that holds VR back atm is the GPU price. I choose a RTX2080 as it was the best at what I could afford. That said it cost me $1150 CAD total, while extreme, it was about $200 CAD shy of what they were going for. I am a good shopper. VR isn't going to explode until a GPU/HMD of good quality can be had for $500 total + PC.
    I am hopeful for eye tracking that will lower resolution where you aren't focusing and of course wireless. These will be big.
    Anyways right now I am enjoying the hell out of it, and those who I introduce it too as their first ever VR experience. The enjoyment and wonder they express is very gratifying for sure.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
  14. Hakaba

    Hakaba Gawd

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    Thank you, I never heard of this game until today.
     
  15. nanotube

    nanotube [H]Lite

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  16. Oniigumo

    Oniigumo Limp Gawd

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    I doubt it'd have to drive both layers if that's what you mean, but that's some really neat and novel tech. From the sounds of it, the only drawback is the viewing angle (and tbh I have no idea how viewing angle would play out in a VR scenario, as it seems it wouldn't be a problem at all, but then the lenses come into play and I really have no idea how they'd interact with eachother.) It still seems promising.
     
  17. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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  18. dgz

    dgz [H]ardness Supreme

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    I kind of like my Valve Index. Resolution and latency are problems that are still largely unresolved but the implications, once the technology becomes good enough, are massive. It will be used for evil, no question about it, but also good. It's just technology. Until we get to the holo deck, VR is going to be it. Who is going to want or need big clunky displays on their desk when they can spawn an arbitrary amount of virtual screens? Almost no one, that's who.

    That said, Theater Mode sucks. I love the concept and the way it's done but running regular non vr games in it utterly destroys performance. Quake Live is barely playable at 50 fps or so. Once that's fixed, if ever, and resolution is 4 or 9k per eye, there's no going back.
     
  19. Youn

    Youn [H]ardness Supreme

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    what kind of latency are people people experiencing? I have heard zero complaints about it... except for the above... is it not set up correctly or is it something only a trained eye can notice?
     
  20. RazorWind

    RazorWind 2[H]4U

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    The Index uses LCD screens instead of OLED, so it has a little bit of smearing. Maybe that's what they mean?

    The only lag of any kind that I notice with my Vive Pro is when the GPU can't keep up and it starts using reprojection, which is super obvious in the games I play, even with a 2080 Ti and relatively conservative settings.
     
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  21. dgz

    dgz [H]ardness Supreme

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    I don't think reality runs at 120 Hz. Everything seems smoother on my old 120 Hz screen. That and my 2500k / 1070 setup can't keep up anymore.
     
  22. OFaceSIG

    OFaceSIG [H]ard|Gawd

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    VR will never be mainstream for the same reason 3d movies are dieing/dead.

    Nobody wants to put on an implement of some kind to experience whatever it is. They just want to see it.

    Super annoying to wear headsets and special glasses to use something.
     
  23. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    What volume is main stream? Hundreds of thousands? Millions?
     
  24. OFaceSIG

    OFaceSIG [H]ard|Gawd

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    Mainstream is in our case, is us, the pc gamers. I know 2 poeple with VR headsets and I've been building computers since 1989. Guess, what, both of them never touch them anymore so they have areally expensive paperweights. It's a fad! It's stupid, it's the fidget spinner of the entertainment world. Nobody is going to giveAF in 3 years.
     
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  25. dany man

    dany man Limp Gawd

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    I had a VR set back in the 90s that were very light and somewhat comfortable. I have to laugh at today VR sets, they are far bigger and clunkier then some of the sets we had in the 90s
     
  26. Youn

    Youn [H]ardness Supreme

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    yes let's go back to the 90s please

    vrheadset.jpg
     
  27. Youn

    Youn [H]ardness Supreme

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    ok, so you're saying VR isn't popular for the curmudgeons among us... gotcha ;)

    but I hear ya on the bulky thing strapped to my head, I don't want it either... I don't like headphones, hats or even sunglasses for similar reasons. if you haven't check out retinal projection systems, they may likely be the answer and don't require anything to really sit on your face?
     
  28. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Funny you use the terms nobody and never, but you use things everyday that some people thought would never take off. ;)
     
  29. dany man

    dany man Limp Gawd

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    Virtual-IO-I-Glasses-First-VR-setup-from.jpg

    I had one of these, very light and had motion tracking too.
     
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  30. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    I disagree considering they are still selling millions / year.
     
  31. Youn

    Youn [H]ardness Supreme

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    "mainstream" is just a bad word, could mean different things in different scenarios... many don't consider "gaming" to be mainstream :/

    VR only has to be sustainable to endure some longevity and continued usage to be successful IMO, like flight sticks or steering wheel controls. who cares if it remains a niche product or not?
     
  32. OFaceSIG

    OFaceSIG [H]ard|Gawd

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    Millions where? globally? Considering how long I've been in the PC world as a consumer, 1989, and in the IT business in general since 2004, It's still a very niche product at best. I've met and know countless people who are into tech in general. Compared to almost ANY other tech product these things don't sell. You just don't see them in the wild.

    Facebook *may* sell 1 million headsets this year:
    https://variety.com/2019/digital/news/oculus-quest-sales-data-1203239945/

    Motorola sold more cell phones in 1992:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_mobile_phones#2018

    Bro, nobody cares. Sorry, the facts don't support your claim.
     
  33. Youn

    Youn [H]ardness Supreme

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  34. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardForum Junkie

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    https://www.viar360.com/virtual-reality-market-size-2018/

    It's growing so not sure what facts you are using. ;)
     
  35. OFaceSIG

    OFaceSIG [H]ard|Gawd

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    Even with updated numbers for Motorola to sell 4 million phones in 19 friggin 92 versus facebook selling 1.7m oculus to this point doesn't impress me. VR is a whiz bang buzz word right now.

    Augmented reality through cell phones is already a bigger field and that's only because of friggin the unbelievable huge phenomenon that is pokemon.

    Nobody cares about VR.
     
  36. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Not sure what world you live in, but if 1 unit is sold, that means the use of the word nobody is wrong. So again, you are wrong.
    Also VR is still being hindered by GPU's, even so, it still rocks. How people can play on 2D screens is so archaic. *throw up in mouth.gif*
     
  37. OFaceSIG

    OFaceSIG [H]ard|Gawd

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    Don't be a teenager.

    You know what I mean.

    And yes, it's ALL GPUs' fault.

    No, one, cares.
     
  38. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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  39. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Then use your big boy vocabulary and use the correct terms. So you do not read good, so show me where I said it was all the GPU's fault?
    You tell me to stop being a teenager and you are acting much younger with the same mentality as well.

    We get it, you hate VR? Why not post why you hate it so much instead of making false claims.
     
  40. OFaceSIG

    OFaceSIG [H]ard|Gawd

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    I don't hate VR. I do think it's easily one of the most overrated and over-hyped technologies in quite some time.

    If there is actual content in the future, and less bulky and more comfortable equipment it will change the game.

    But right now? It's a toy, apparently for people like you, that are really interested in it, and that's really where it ends. Far from mainstream, far from "popular".
     
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