The State of VR in 2018

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by cageymaru, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard as it Gets

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    Blurbusters has an article on the state of VR in 2018. It touches on the current VR trends as the market shifts from wired headsets to wireless HMDs powered by the latest Snapdragon processor. Bela discusses upcoming options in 2019 to rid ourselves of the wire, and their experience with lesser known VR headsets such as the PIMAX and StarVR HMDs. Finally the screen-door-effect (SDE) has been defeated by the Samsung Odyssey+, but it only ships with Windows Mixed Reality setups. 4K VR gaming is now available on PIMAX, but it is only upscaled due to the Displayport 1.4 connector.

    Tethered VR headsets sales have also declined by 37%, despite price rebates to Sony PSVR, Oculus Rift, HTC Vive and Windows Mixed Reality headsets. Each one of these companies sold around 100,000 headsets in 2018. However, a bright spot in sales is coming from Standalone VR headsets, like Oculus Go (3DOF) and Xiaomi Mi VR, which grew over 400% in the same period with over 200,000 units sold. Oculus Quest, coming out early 2019, will provide inside-out tracking and six degrees of freedom for both headset and controllers, to capitalize on these trends.
     
  2. James Robinson

    James Robinson Limp Gawd

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    Can't wait for the buzz words to finally die off and we can get back to what's important: better frame rates at lower cost in regular gaming.....
     
  3. Jagger100

    Jagger100 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Not while crypto specutaion is a thing.
     
  4. Joust

    Joust 2[H]4U

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    There's a market for SDE-less tethered VR. Pimax gets their interfaces right and that may easily be the next step for me.
     
  5. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    As the article said, Pimax isn't #1 for that, currently the Samsung Odyssey Plus is (though the Pimax are supposed to have a very sharp picture):
    930b2388f18285e59f07a48b513e3c09d570b90d.jpg

    I've read there's a config tweak that allegedly makes the image sharper since it could have some filtering on it by default.
     
  6. Gorankar

    Gorankar [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I love my vive, but I used it far less b4 I went wireless with it. A lightweight wireless solution is really what I am wanting. The tech is getting there.
     
  7. Wiffle

    Wiffle Limp Gawd

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    I think that graph speaks for itself...

    You can clearly see where the "early" adopters have stabilized by the end of the Oct 2017, and by Oct 2018 usage doubled...

    This is one of those times where I really wish I had some money to blow on stock... cause yeah this ain't going nowhere but up.

    And if I did have money to buy up stock, I clearly wouldn't be posting this because I wouldn't want to be accused of anything. But then again, I don't think anybody who starts investing into VR now will be disappointed.

    Also have to remember, this is the internet and 60% of it is "most likely" fake... such a confusing time we live in.
     
  8. Dekoth-E-

    Dekoth-E- [H]ardness Supreme

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    You can clearly see saturation of a niche product. As someone who actively invests in stocks, anyone who invests in VR stocks is a fool. The hype is gone and while a few of the companies will indeed continue to grow, this isn't an investment that is going to be anything other than a slow gainer. In reality many of these companies are going to fade into irrelevance unless they realize that gaming has zero future in VR. They need to be focusing on the medical and aerospace industries as well as a couple other key industries if they want to have a serious future. A company announcing they are investing heavily in R&D for turning their VR hardware into those types of applications would be a very sound stock investment unlike games.
     
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  9. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Why does the Odyssey look better than the Pimax 5K? The 5K has a 170 degree FOV, maybe the graphics have to the toned down?
     
  10. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    "Zero future" for gaming is obvious hyperbole. It's clear to me VR isn't saturated yet, though where that point will be is debatable. What we are in agreement on is that it will be niche. Maybe VR levels out at 2%, maybe it makes it all the way to 10%, who knows. For now it's growing and will stabilize at some point in the future. The analogy I make would be similar to steering wheels. Most people don't use steering wheels in games, but it's a large enough niche that there are multiple manufacturers in that space with a dedicated userbase. I would argue VR is similar, though probably bigger.

    Then again, I'm talking total long term adoption rate, not individual company profitability, I can't predict that stuff at all. VR is very much a field where one company could die while another one takes its space.

    Two reasons:

    1. The resolution for the same FOV is higher. The Pimax 5k+ is two 2560x1440 panels, the Samsung Odyssey is two 1440x1600 panels. The Pimax has a much wider FOV though, 200 v. 110 for the odyssey. So even though the 5k+ is driving more pixels, if you were to chop off the sides to match the Odyssey's coverage, it would be less total.

    2. The Odyssey Plus uses OLED displays with a specific focus on pixel arrangement to not have SDE. The Pimax 5k+ uses a more traditional striped RGB arrangement.


    Both sets have their pros and cons, just that if no SDE is your #1 priority, the Odyssey Plus comes out ahead.
     
  11. Dekoth-E-

    Dekoth-E- [H]ardness Supreme

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    In the context I said it, yes that was a bit hyperbolic. I meant to type "Zero future in gaming Mainstream". You are 100% correct in that it will be somewhere in the Steering wheels and flight sticks market. We will hit a point where there will in reality be 1-3 manufacturers actively producing hardware. As for the rest, as I said they will either fade into irrelevance or switch to an industry that VR actually revolutionizes.
     
  12. joobjoob

    joobjoob Gawd

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    Sold my release day vive. 1/3 games made me nauseous. Rest of the time it was just too much pita to get it setup and running. Modern games giant patches and layers of sign ins (console and pc) are bad enough.

    Maybe we need to update this classic for gaming?

    DVDs_vs_streaming.jpg
     
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  13. meme

    meme Limp Gawd

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    VR is the future of gaming, and of movies, and many other things.

    There's an intensity to VR that you can't get any other way. You don't watch a movie, you're in the movie. You don't watch a game screen from across the room, you're in the game. Everyone is going to want this, it's just going to take time for people to figure that out.

    You don't see it yet because when VR means buying $2000 in computer equipment and bolting cameras to your walls and running wires all over your living room, not many people are going to do it. The future of VR is wireless, with inside out tracking to eliminate the need for cameras on the walls. Eye tracking and foveated rendering will allow high resolution graphics with a fraction of the processing power needed today.

    It doesn't matter what some particular company does or what consumers think of a particular headset. There's no stopping VR, any more than the mainstream adoption of automobiles or cellphones could have been stopped just because some little detail went wrong along the way.
     
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  14. Dekoth-E-

    Dekoth-E- [H]ardness Supreme

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    Lol, no it isn't.
     
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  15. dreadcthulhu

    dreadcthulhu [H]Lite

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    There are plenty of examples of technologies that were hailed as the next big thing, only to end up dying. Think about when the Nintendo Wii came out, and motion controls for games were all the rage, with Sony and MS throwing money to come up with their own versions. Only for gamers to get bored of that gimmick and go back to regular controllers, mice, and keyboards. 3D televisions were a technology that all the manufactures were pushing hard for awhile; but nobody really used it and it faded away. Predicting what technologies will catch on, and which will fizzle is hard game. I've tried a fancy VR setup one of my friends has; it was fun for about an hour, but novelty factor wore off and the whole thing seemed pointless after. Even my friend says he got bored of it and tried to get me to buy it from him recently. Overall, I think VR headsets will end up like racing wheels & flight sticks; a small, dedicated fanbase will keep a small market of them alive, but overall most people just won't bother.
     
  16. [21CW]killerofall

    [21CW]killerofall Aliens...

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    The biggest problem with VR is the cost to entry. Not only do you have to pay for an expensive headset but you also have to have a high end computer to play it. And then there is the additional problem of a certain percentage of people can't handle VR due to it making them feel sick. Honestly I would be shocked to see VR ever get above 2% in Steam. There are literally twice as many people with 1080 TI's as there are those with VR headsets. Personally, until you get to the level of immersion of The Matrix or Sword Art Online (with out all of the death, obviously), I am not interested.

    The only place that I see VR taking off in is in the business world where costs like this are much easier to swallow. The areas I see this taking off in are in manufacturing, job training (things like this [H] thread are what I am talking about), and R&D. My company is investing in VR and AR fairly heavily as the costs for doing R&D and manufacturing are so high, the VR & AR hardware costs are like 0.01% or less (not an exaggeration) of the budget for those areas.
     
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  17. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I also believe it is. 2D games are boring as hell. There is 0 immersive qualities and that really gives "life" to games.
    There is also much more to VR than gaming. The business world is a good place as well. VR for taking tours of houses for sale, learning, just so many.

    This is just my opinion but once hardware starts to catch up it will really boom. The resolution could be better but the hardware isn't there to run dual 4K-8K with all the tweaks to make it look awesome.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  18. spine

    spine 2[H]4U

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    I wouldn't put too much stock into that graph.

    I say that because I sold my Vive last year and so am no longer a VR gamer, but does steam/valve know that? o_O
     
  19. Dekoth-E-

    Dekoth-E- [H]ardness Supreme

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    I've said repeatedly VR's real future is in industries not gaming. However as for gaming it is nothing more than a niche experience that a very small minority enjoy. The reality is VR is too immersive for how most people game. Most people don't want to be 100% cut off from everything for lengthy periods of time. Your argument held water in the days of single monitor setups being the Norm and people not linking their mobile devices to apps on the game they are playing or watching guides etc. However gaming habits have changed and people are multitasking while they game more commonly than they are simply playing a game only. As such VR while certainly offering the superior experience for full immersion simply doesn't fit in to how people play games today. VR for most people is a fun experience for a couple hours and that is really about it. It is something that will be hugely popular at places like Dave and Buster's and similar establishments. There is little to no reason for the average gamer playing your average game to bother with it. The overwhelming majority of game genres don't benefit at all from that level of immersion.
     
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  20. meme

    meme Limp Gawd

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    Computer technology gets better, computer technology gets cheaper. Exponentially.

    Within a few years, you'll be able to buy a very powerful VR headset which will run off whatever the latest playstation or xbox consoles are, and it will be wireless. You'll also have standalone powerful headsets which don't need a playstation or xbox or computer at all. We already have the Oculus Go and the upcoming Oculus Quest, which are standalone wireless units.

    Porn will be heavily driving the adoption of VR. If this were all anyone wanted in VR it would still result in exponential growth in the number of headsets sold.
     
  21. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardForum Junkie

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    So you are guessing the same as I am. You don't think it will be, I think it will. Your not going to change my mind.
    Lengthy periods of time? It's the same for any gamer, they might only play a little or a lot. The majority of games do not benefit? Well if you are playing poker then I would agree with you.
    You also did not cover the cost of the setup. If VR could play on any system, then what? VR isn't niche because people do not want it, it's price, IMO.
    Multitasking while gaming? Why? Because it isn't immersive and semi boring. ;)
     
  22. steakman1971

    steakman1971 2[H]4U

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    I've tried VR and think it's awesome. In my past, I would have dived right in and probably bought the Rift and Vive. However, I'm no longer an early adopter do to other responsibilities/life changes (married with children!)
    My rig is on the low end of the spectrum. It would work, but not be great. I'm upgrading sometime this year - that issue that has held me back will be taken care of.
    I'd likely buy the Vive (maybe the Pro) if I were getting into VR today. There are a handful of games I'd like to try out. Yet, I don't know how much I'd use it right now. There are a few games I'd play, but a lot of the games I play do not support VR. Not sure I'd get my moneys worth.
     
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  23. Dekoth-E-

    Dekoth-E- [H]ardness Supreme

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    It isn't price. That is the barrier to entry, but not the hold back. I own Two rifts and I know dozens of people who own various VR setups. We all love them, but none of us play anything on them. I've seen this same story repeated hundreds of times across many forums. People buy it, they love it and they get bored or annoyed with it because it is just more hassle than it is worth. I stand by the majority of games not benefiting and no I'm not talking about poker. I own and have hundreds of hours in probably one of the single best examples of what VR gaming can be "Subnautica". I have over 460 hours played in the game, only 8 of which are in VR. Why you ask? Because while it is cool, being that isolated from my environment doesn't work for me for long periods of time and nor does wearing that cumbersome damn thing on my head and face. When I sit down to play, I sit down to play for hours if I can get away with it. VR isn't friendly to that type of gaming as even fairly light devices start getting irritating over that duration. Heck people can barely keep on a decent headset for a normal gaming session and you think people are going to wear what amounts to a half helmet for those periods of time? Please...Again it is great in small doses, it is amazing for short periods of "Ohhing and Ahhing" it just falls on its face after that. You very clearly fit in that small niche of people I'm talking about that will be the primary demographic that keeps it alive. Again I'm not trying to change your mind for you personally, I'm just pointing out that you are in the extreme minority. Sorry but for video games VR is and will remain a very Niche experience that for most will be experienced at a friends house or a D&B. It will not "revolutionize" gaming and become mainstream.
     
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  24. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardForum Junkie

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    More hassle than it's worth? It's not price? That's subjective like pretty much all you have said. Right now it isn't big because it's still new, hardware is trying to catch up, HMD's are still growing. Yes, sit on your ass and play. If you are handicapped, it makes sense. I have played for hours and hours, and no problem here. I am also talking the majority of demographics. It will continue to grow. People who want to stare and a 2D screen and watch tv and play on their phone at the same time are more than welcome. I want a game that will engage me in most senses.(Not going for the smell crap) VR isn't just a game, it's an escape into the game.

    It will not "revolutionize" gaming and become mainstream? Either you are psychic or giving your opinion. :)
     
  25. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 2[H]4U

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    What many fail to realize or simply overlook when it comes to VR is that it is very much still an evolving technology. And with that continued evolution comes lots more capability, continued usabilty improvements and features. VR is not a static thing. Things like limited FOV, SDE, lack of resolution, hard-wired connections, weight, comfort, etc. that folks are lambasting as to why it isn’t all that great or will not succeed are all things that are going to rapidly receded in the rear view as the tech continues to progress.

    And I really have to address Dekoth-E-'s earlier comments in at I am floored with the degree in which I find myself wholeheartedly disagreeing with them:

    While I respect that you have an opinion and a position on this, it is almost laughable to me at how diametrically it is opposed to the one that I hold. I'm a life long computer gamer - I've been gaming since the late 70's, starting with an Atari 2600 and then home computers (TSR-80, TI 99/4a) and then moving into the PC world with the advent of the IBM PC. I’ve been gaming on a console/PC for well over 40 years now. Saying that VR is “too immersive” is completely laughable. In gaming, that is exactly what I want - as much immersion as possible. The more immersion, the better. If I am playing a game, be it a MMORPG, FPS, Sim, or just a simple strategy game, I WANT to be fully in that world - not looking at an approximation of it on a 2D monitor. Gaming is all about escapism - not about checking your texts/Facebook page/sports scores.

    Also, what you describe is NOT a PC gamer. You are describing a large class of millennial mobile phone users that have to check their phones every 30-45 seconds as if they are obtaining oxygen from them in order to survive. Yes, I can see how such individuals simply aren’t wired to enjoy/use VR. They are the same individuals that are on their phones in a theater while “watching” a film. They simply don’t have the ability to focus on gaming as an entertainment pursuit.

    There is no one "real future" for VR ala industry as you propose. That's like saying there is only one real future for a PC monitor. That’s nonsensical. VR's real future is everywhere - industry, gaming and home computing. VR tech, given another half a dozen years or so to evolve will begin to start replacing the ubiquitous PC monitor as the primary visual interface that we use to seriously interact with a computer. I’m not saying that it’ll happen overnight, but it will start by then. Your not being able to see this as an eventuality and where VR is truly headed simply boggles me.
     
  26. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    I love VR gaming, but no. VR's ability to be "immersive" loses a lot when a game isn't in first person or if the style of game works better with traditional controllers. It's awesome tech and will only continue to get better, but in the gaming realm its likely always going to remain as a nice. I doubt we'll see frame rate, resolution, and fov hit an ideal level at reasonable prices in the next decade. Ultra high-end headsets and several thousand dollar computers will be able to show off ideal set ups before then (probably long before) but that's about it. When we're talking that length of time then the tech is unlikely to ever have a chance of being more than niche.

    The only exception to this would be if both Sony and MS heavily push VR in their next consoles and give it a ton of big budget support. By that I mean getting AAA-level games on VR hardware and making the tech reasonably priced with great performance. None of this 60fps, low ass resolution stuff seen with PSVR.
     
  27. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardForum Junkie

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    VR is not for everybody. It's a niche is being over used. It's new. The tech won't take that long. I think the 2080ti successor should be able to run VR 4K pretty good.(I believe the Pimax 8K can run 8K native res, but the HP isn't there for 90 fps.
    Looking at a screen is 0 immersive, so not sure that is valid. Me personally, when I am playing VR, lots of the little details, go away since it's so immersive.
    It's also good exercise. Also as Supercharged_Z06 said, the ability for it to be a monitor/tv will continue to grow.
    Nobody knows what the future will be, one can only hope that VR will progress faster.
     
  28. BitMaster

    BitMaster Limp Gawd

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    I cant get over this nausea, trying for a year now.

    Still, I think for some niche games like DCS or other flight sims, VR opens the door to a new world, that great it is to dogfight in VR or fly formation, Air-Air-Refuel etc.. this is a different level of experience beyond 2D, if there wasnt this stupid nausea.


    Maybe, with some ARM chip and no-wires along with 8k and super smoothness nausea will become less of a problem. The more perfect your eyes get fooled the less chances for nausea/epilepsy arise.
     
  29. Dekoth-E-

    Dekoth-E- [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm a PC gamer first and foremost and while to some degree I am describing the younger generations, I am still describing my generation as well. I've been gaming just as long as you, my first system was an Atari 400, then 800, 1040ST, 2600 etc etc. PC is my platform of choice and has been ever since I built my first one. Again my primary point is that people like you are a very small group relative to gaming as a whole. Like it or not, the younger generations represent a far bigger market then you or I will ever be at this point. They aren't on board with VR for the exact reasons I stated, they are the future no matter how much you disagree. Again I own and have enjoyed and will continue to enjoy VR, but that doesn't stop me from recognizing that isn't how I want to play the vast majority of my games the vast majority of the time. If I hated it, I would have sold the hardware a long time ago.
     
  30. wdtiger

    wdtiger Limp Gawd

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    I freaking love vr. Everytime i've had a chance to play with it, it's been some of the best gaming i've ever experienced, and i'm an og gamer. The immersion factor is like nothing else. Honestly, i'm too far into rl cars and racing to spend the money on upgrades and a vr setup. I'm excited to see when the headsets improve and start to come down in price some.
     
  31. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardForum Junkie

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    So you are speaking for the young people? Weird. I go to play Rec Room and probably 75% are at least 12 or under. Guessing on the sound of their girly voices.
    So do you have numbers to back that up about the younger generation not wanting/using it?
     
  32. Dekoth-E-

    Dekoth-E- [H]ardness Supreme

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    Do you read NPD? I'm guessing not. While the numbers for this season aren't in yet, VR wasn't in the discussion leading up to it. If you want to know what the younger generations want, you simply look at the sales data. The sales data on gaming of which the younger generations are the Major driving force, isn't exactly setting records for VR. It isn't being discussed as a must have item because the demand isn't there. Are you seriously going to try and argue that kids want it but the parents just can't afford it? Because I sure as heck have never seen any actual sales analyst saying that.
     
  33. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    They will the next time you get selected form the HW survey.
     
  34. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    Valve is able to put out charts showing how many people are playing games with specific controllers and can even pinpoint it down to exactly which games are being played with those controllers. If you're no longer using your Vive, don't have VR games installed, and don't have Vive drivers installed they probably know.
     
  35. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Of course not. Every parent in the world can afford a computer with the HP to run VR, and buy a VR system. (That is what you said, not me)
     
  36. SeaFoam

    SeaFoam [H]ardness Supreme

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    I bought a Vive, was stuck in it all the time when I first got it.

    Then I just kinda quit using it, not sure why to be honest.

    Then I used it in sim racing. HOLY SHIT. I love it again, I was about to get a pair of new monitors to update my triple screens, not anymore. There's just no comparison in any type of sim. Sure, the SDE sucks, but you can look past that. I'm waiting for an Odyssey plus sale/discount (I missed the last one), that should be good enough for a while.

    Now I just need a motion sim setup.
     
  37. Dekoth-E-

    Dekoth-E- [H]ardness Supreme

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    No it isn't, there are tons of flavors of VR that don't require a high HP PC. None of it is in demand. Don't even hit me with that false equivalence nonsense of the lower end stuff not being good enough either. Mobile gaming is the most popular gaming medium and its quality is absolute shit compared to consoles and PC so quality isn't the reason and neither is cost.
     
  38. Hagrid

    Hagrid [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Since you have no numbers, it is unclear which.
    My guess is cost.
     
  39. Youn

    Youn [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm excited about VR unlike "3d tv" and motion controls (although in VR it makes sense)

    Mostly waiting for some more kickass games/apps to make it worthwhile. I'll probably buy quest to start arch viz and industrial design production at work. I've not seen one serious dev who says it isn't super early tech still, just excited folks trying to solve issues and experiment with content. No harm in that and no need for argument.
     
  40. Youn

    Youn [H]ardness Supreme

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    I dunno... I think VR is making software and hardware devs more seriously look at framerate and performance issues and those lessons are being applied to regular gaming. Maybe it's not the sea change many of us wanna see... just go ask Tim Sweeney if VR has hurt or distracted the development of other things ;)