The Secret World "Should've Been More Commercial"

piscian18

piscian18

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The lead designer of The Secret World says the game took too many risks to be a commercial success.

The Secret World bombed pretty badly, selling just 200,000 copies and dragging Funcom's share price down from $17.70 in early July to around $2.00 today. Reviews have been "mixed," as they say, but our own Paul Goodman gave it a very solid 4/5 review and the general consensus is that it's a pretty solid game. So what went wrong?

A big part of the problem, in the opinion of lead designer Martin Bruusgaard, is that the game deviated too far from conventional MMO norms. "I think we probably should've gone for something that was maybe a bit more familiar," he told Penny Arcade. "No classes, no levels, different weapons, and you have the skills. Yes we have quests, but some of the quests are weird, where you look up on the browser to get the solution... it's all familiar, but with a twist, and I don't think we should've twisted that many things."

"I have to stress I really like the game the way it is now, but if I'm thinking about making the game a more commercial success, I think we should've gone more commercial," he said. "This may be a radical thing to say, but I think it would have helped if we actually had levels in the game. I'm sort of ashamed to say it, but I think that might've made things feel more familiar when it comes to players tracking their own progression and telling how strong they are, and knowing where to go. I think people got lost because they don't have this number telling them how strong they are."

He acknowledged that competition from other MMOs and potentially inadequate marketing contributed to The Secret World's failure, but concluded that game makers must ultimately put commercial considerations ahead of artistic aspirations if they want their games to be successful. "I think it's very, very few cases where you can sit down and make the game that you really want to do, and it turns out to be a success," he said. "Unfortunately I think that in order to be a success in today's market, you need to make the game a bit more commercial."

Bruusgaard, along with just about everyone else in Funcom's Oslo office, was put on "forced leave" after the launch of The Secret World, and has since left the company.
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http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/120023-The-Secret-World-Shouldve-Been-More-Commercial

I never got around to playing it despite it supposedly being close to my Survival Horror Heart. Now I'm ashamed to say I avoided it in the $25 steam sale because I'm told the game is all but dead.
 
They basically tried what SOE did with the original version of Star Wars Galaxies, where everything was skill based and took massive amounts of time, but was very rewarding to those who actually got the Jedi title.. The problem was that kind of fan is very loyal to your game, but you won't find 10 people in 1000 that are willing to play that way. I really give them kudos for trying to make an "adult" MMO, but they won't lure any of the big numbers of subscribers they need to be profitable. They will end up retooling the game with a more standard class/level system and alienate their original player base, while being too late to the party to get enough new subscribers. This was a game I was excited about, but after my first hour playing it just didn't grab me the way I was hoping. Oh well.. if it survives, I might give it another go in a few months.
 
piscian18 said:
The lead designer of The Secret World says the game took too many risks to be a commercial success.



http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/120023-The-Secret-World-Shouldve-Been-More-Commercial

I never got around to playing it despite it supposedly being close to my Survival Horror Heart. Now I'm ashamed to say I avoided it in the $25 steam sale because I'm told the game is all but dead.
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Its really not dead though, give it a play.

And to do the dungeons on normal mode, you don't need to have a huge amazing skill set list by farming tons of quest. You will have enough points from doing normal quest and using gear drops from normal mobs to be able to start through the dungeons and progress easily. I've got a dps build and tank build and I've just done the normal questing through to transylvania.

The big issue with the game is they marketed it like shit and released it at a bad time. They should of waited sometime between this November/Feb and built up a good marketing campaign with it. Would of avoided GW2 and WoW:pandas
 
I still say they need to revamp the fighting system as it feels very clunky in many ways. But if you really think about it everyone wants to play WoW so I guess it fits. Just seems weird to have a shotgun and pushing 1, 2, 3... 1, 2, 3... 1, 2, 3, 4.

I'd rather have left click as free aim, right as free aim block. 1, 2, 3, etc as leg sweep take down, swing gun in circle, swing butt of gun, fire both barrels, etc.

But like the creator of the game mused people don't want that. They want more 1, 2, 3, 4 combo building action.
 
Not surprised. I didn't think this game would do very well.
 
In other words: "We should have dumbed down the game so that it's both unique but caters to WoW-like MMO gamers out there. Actually, let's make it like the majority of the MMO games on the market today and not try something new."

What is wrong with trying something new?! There isn't!

I prefer games to be both fun, challenging, and most important unique.

In the world of MMOs, if you've played one WoW-clone or WoW-like game, you've played them all. And, I've played and beta-tested many of them. Even SWTOR didn't deviate too much from that even right down to the controls and quest system. TERA tried to change the combat system a bit and that was fun, but the quests and missions system is very WoW-like in nature. Majority of Korean F2P MMOs are WoW-like. Heck, even Allods Online is nothing more than an F2P version of WoW.

The only other unique MMO I can think of that's been successful has been EVE Online. No fantasy. No swords. No classes. No jobs, technically.

I'd like more diversity in the MMO market. If Secret World can fix its combat system, which honestly needs to be overhauled and market it better, then it should find some more unique users just like EVE Online has for the last seven, eight years.
 
octoberasian said:
What is wrong with trying something new?! There isn't!

.
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My problem with TSW was the exact opposite. Other than the setting, they didn't do enough new.

There's "no classes" sure, but what that really means is there's 1 class. 1 set of mechanics: the wow rogue. Stand there and spam combo points and use finishers with laser beam homing attacks.

It's really a shame I followed the game for so long but it just didn't deliver on what it should have after 5+ years of development and a reasonable budget from a company who has made MMOs for a long time.

If only they had kept the free aim combat system they ahd back int he day, the game would have been completely different. But they didn't, they actually made the game MORE like a WoW combat type than it was before, not the opposite.
 
Try something new, don't, either way the outcome is the same. Nothing that is a paid subscription based MMO can compete with WoW. There are games like Diablo 3 and GW2 that have done well because they are free after the initial purchase price, but for MMOs it's becoming almost a guarantee that a game is going to bomb even if it has a successful release. Look at SWTOR, Game sold around ~2million copies, yet is going F2P to keep up...
 
octoberasian said:
In other words: "We should have dumbed down the game so that it's both unique but caters to WoW-like MMO gamers out there. Actually, let's make it like the majority of the MMO games on the market today and not try something new."

What is wrong with trying something new?! There isn't!

I prefer games to be both fun, challenging, and most important unique.

In the world of MMOs, if you've played one WoW-clone or WoW-like game, you've played them all. And, I've played and beta-tested many of them. Even SWTOR didn't deviate too much from that even right down to the controls and quest system. TERA tried to change the combat system a bit and that was fun, but the quests and missions system is very WoW-like in nature. Majority of Korean F2P MMOs are WoW-like. Heck, even Allods Online is nothing more than an F2P version of WoW.

The only other unique MMO I can think of that's been successful has been EVE Online. No fantasy. No swords. No classes. No jobs, technically.

I'd like more diversity in the MMO market. If Secret World can fix its combat system, which honestly needs to be overhauled and market it better, then it should find some more unique users just like EVE Online has for the last seven, eight years.
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I agree with this whole heartily. The combat system in TSW really is like a WoW rogue for everything. I really didnt' care too much for parts of it, but other aspects I thought it was great. I didn't care for the combo point healing though, it kinda made me go meh.

DPS and tanking was fine, and being a caster/ranged dps worked ok with the combo points cause there were abilities that were castable and than you could use the 5 points for a big hit. Kinda like WoW Mage arcane spec was for a time
 
He is ABSOLUTELY correct.

I mean it worked for SW:TOR, Warhammer Online, Aion, Tera.......need I go on? Making a game "just like wow" is the quickest and sure fire way to have it bomb. There's aa reason for that, why would players leave wow for a game just like it? They won't, they may "try" your game, but once that free month is up and they see it's the "same ole thing" they'll go back to WoW where they've already invested hundreds of hours into it and have friends there.

People in the mmo genre want osmething NEW and something different, not the same old damn thing. The problem is NO ONE wants to give us that.

What this guy is saying is the EXACT reason most people that played it liked it. The "detective" style missions and the FREEDOM to build your character is what makes it stand out/fun.

The problem WAS NOT These things, the problem (and you can see this on the forums and about ANYWHERE the game is talked about) is the mind numbingly bad combat system. It's even worse then most "usual" mmo styles. It just boils down tno pressing 1, 1, 1, 1 to build up your pool, then pushing your 2 finishers, it's the same thing over and over and over.

They basically make the world, quests, player freedom all GREAT but then left the combat (Which is what you'll be doing the majority of the game, it's the "meat" of the game like most mmo's) as the worst thing.

They should have taken a bigger risk imo, made combat full out action, have to aim guns, melee combat that plays more actiony like M&B/Jedi Knight or something.

Then on top of this the advertising for teh game was almost non existant. I tried to get some people into it when it first came out and they were mostly like "wtf is that?"
 
Langly said:
I agree with this whole heartily. The combat system in TSW really is like a WoW rogue for everything. I really didnt' care too much for parts of it, but other aspects I thought it was great. I didn't care for the combo point healing though, it kinda made me go meh.

DPS and tanking was fine, and being a caster/ranged dps worked ok with the combo points cause there were abilities that were castable and than you could use the 5 points for a big hit. Kinda like WoW Mage arcane spec was for a time
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No offence but when MMO players talk like this it makes me want to run in the other direction.

Just seems like it's what perpetuating the whole generic mmo fad when all you guys seem to talk about is your gear dps tank spec yadda yadda yadda. Why does every game have to be in the frame of an excel workbook? Just seems like balancing and gear and PVP is taking over the MMO genre and no one is allowed to care about anything else.
 
after playing tera for 4 months during CB and through launch, i refuse to play another mmo until they are truly next-gen, and not just WoW clones. mmo's have gone really stale
 
piscian18 said:
No offence but when MMO players talk like this it makes me want to run in the other direction.

Just seems like it's what perpetuating the whole generic mmo fad when all you guys seem to talk about is your gear dps tank spec yadda yadda yadda. Why does every game have to be in the frame of an excel workbook? Just seems like balancing and gear and PVP is taking over the MMO genre and no one is allowed to care about anything else.
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These new MMO's have all the pretty visuals and not nearly enough storytelling, interesting characters that drive the story and you truly care about, etc. To be more specific the storytelling in older single player RPG's is miles ahead the average MMO. TSW is the closest thing to that besides WoW. That's why fans of TSW really love it even though the combat is so so.

When you add in things like PvP into your game your focus immediately switches from story, atmosphere, and so forth to balance, gear, levels, etc. PvP requires a complete revamp and even a dumbing down of ideas. TSW pvpers complain about "too many skills" and not being able to determine another persons spec because of the large skill set that people can choose from. They want set in stone choices that they don't really have a say in. And this is true of most MMO players for the most part and extends to other games such as Diablo 3. People just want ease of use and less challenges.

Would say more but really this is enough. :)
 
"the game took too many risks to be a commercial success." Are you kidding me?

Or maybe it was that the game is another shallow theme-park with horrible mechanics, trivial content, based on over-done zombie cliche, stupid cut-scenes and instances, with zero PvP to speak of. No, that couldn't be it!
 
I used to be friends with a guy that worked at Funcom. This was nearly 13+ years ago. I think they are in Oslo, Norway.

They've been making games for awhile now but nothing they've ever produced has had major commercial success as far as I know.

I know a lot of them are old Amiga / Atari ST guys that were into the demo scene / cracking crews. They've always tried not to take the same old path like all the other companies out there to try and differentiate themselves.

When I saw Secret World, I knew it would be a failure commercially. I appreciate their hard work and vision, just wish they would try something normal for a change and just make it super fun and polished.
 
Pleeeeeease.....

Just another excuse for another Funcom failure.

The game is a failure exactly because it is ALREADY too dumbed down. How do I know this without even playing it? It is yet another linear themepark game with no outstanding innovative features in an industry saturated with linear themepark games. It is is a failure for precisely NOT taking enough risks (creating something altogether different).
 
piscian18 said:
No offence but when MMO players talk like this it makes me want to run in the other direction.

Just seems like it's what perpetuating the whole generic mmo fad when all you guys seem to talk about is your gear dps tank spec yadda yadda yadda. Why does every game have to be in the frame of an excel workbook? Just seems like balancing and gear and PVP is taking over the MMO genre and no one is allowed to care about anything else.
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No offence, but you completely misinterpreted what I said. I did not mention min/max's for stats or pvp. I mentioned the similarities between the combat system in TSW and how it compares to a familiar mmo for most people, WoW (yes I'm sorry I referenced it).

I am a huge proponent of skill points and items in MMO's being more neutral for all players. What I mean with that is you don't have things like Valor/Resilience what have you for pvp etc. MMO's and RPG's are about progression. Levels and skill gains are inherent to the genre.

You can gain levels and thus wear better equipment to slay the bigger beastier dragon (sense my sarcasm here?).

Or in TSW's case, you can earn skill points to spend on the ability tree to define yourself for a particular role or hybrid if you want. I played a tanky support character when I first started and it was great fun. Having abilities to heal myself when I did certain damage was great fun.

One downfall however has the need for two weapon types and BOTH these weapons you equip use a combo point type system that is FAR too similar to rogue classes in most MMO's. I dislike that TSW's combat system as a whole pigeon-holed itself into this system, no matter how you want to play the game. The only difference really is does your weapons points bar generate more points while out of combat or do you generate points with your builder when you first get into combat.

TSW did the atmosphere very well, a unique skill wheel which is cool, but the combat system you combine into the skill wheel is atrocious. I also didn't like the 14 combined abilties you could only use to start with 7 actives/7passives. I would of liked a little more variety (which they added just a tad bit more with the auxiliary weapon wheel)

Investigation quests are AMAZINGLY fun the first time around. That said, this game possibly should of been released as a single player rpg with co-op enabled as the MMO aspects just don't mesh for me.

Regardless of how MMO's are done today, TSW was a game worth the $25 to play at least one month. Its sad funcom did fail with aspects of the game in regards to marketing and some bugs that were atrocious (chat bug at release). But, they made a healthier showing in my mind than when AoC came out and I immensely enjoyed playing through the Illuminati quest line all the way through Transylvania.
 
Udgnim said:
GW2 happened and people are already looking for the next best thing
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Yeah. It's anecdotal of course, but no one I know is still playing GW2.

Here's the thing: The potential MMO player base isn't as big as it looks. Most "MMO players" are just game-jumpers with no loyalty. WoW brought in a lot of people who don't want to invest any time or effort into a game, or learn anything new.

Basically, WoW sets a false standard for what an MMO can accomplish. It is a fluke, not a measuring stick. Developers need to stop sinking so much money into the titles and think a bit more modestly. Market to a niche like EVE Online does.
 
NKDietrich said:
Yeah. It's anecdotal of course, but no one I know is still playing GW2.

Here's the thing: The potential MMO player base isn't as big as it looks. Most "MMO players" are just game-jumpers with no loyalty. WoW brought in a lot of people who don't want to invest any time or effort into a game, or learn anything new.

Basically, WoW sets a false standard for what an MMO can accomplish. It is a fluke, not a measuring stick. Developers need to stop sinking so much money into the titles and think a bit more modestly. Market to a niche like EVE Online does.
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And, even if it has a small playerbase, EVE Online is a very successful niche. Heck, I still play it since I started in 2007.

As for GW2, it's funny how four of my friends that said they'll be playing GW2 that three of the four have stopped playing already because it didn't feel... "different" from other MMOs. One complained that endgame armor was no different in stats than other endgame armors. This was also similar to TERA as well, where you'd get that Tier 12 armor for your Archer or Slayer, and it was the only endgame armor for your class. You could only vary its looks and sometimes its stats if you had the gold. If I were to compare it to FFXI, at least in FFXI the endgame armors varied in both textures (even if using the same 3D mesh & models) and stats. That way each armor varied and had a purpose and a situation to use them, and the armors felt and looked different. In other MMOs outside of FFXI, this isn't the case. You get that one uber-armor from some uber-hard instanced dungeon, and armor is no different than what 1,000 other drones are wearing for your class. (That's if the game doesn't have a costume system like TERA, Elsword, or Dragon Nest.)

Another friend complained that once you get past all the "shine" of GW2, it gets boring. World Events are fun for a while according to him, but it didn't feel any different or unique.

If I were a game developer trying to make a unique MMO, push hard to make it unique and take the risks that no one else is willing to take. Polish it, refine it, get it right, and market it properly. And, if it needs to improve, stick to the game, fight for it, and continuously improve it. CCP has been doing that since EVE was launched back in 2005, and have continued to do it. Sure, they stumbled with Incarna right out the gate, but they picked themselves right back up.

"Why do we fall, Bruce?" "So, we can pick ourselves back up."

That holds true in this industry and any industry for that matter. If you are not willing to fail and learn from it, and fix your mistakes, then you have no place in doing business. If you aren't willing to listen to your customers (or in this case, your playerbase) and the criticism, don't expect to succeed.

The auto industry is a great example during the peak of the economic crisis a few years ago. My boss at my tax preparation work said it best during our continuing tax education course:
"They should have been allowed to fail and not be bailed out. That's how free enterprise systems work. You don't baby companies around and hold them by the hand. If they can't learn from their failures and why they couldn't succeed against Japanese and Korean automakers at that time, then they shouldn't be allowed to do business in the first place. And, believe me, before the bailout, they were making pretty shitty cars for most of their models."
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If Funcom is unwilling to listen to criticisms, listen to its playerbase, and unwilling to fight for it or improve it, they shouldn't be making games in the first place. They should have just went with another WoW-clone (which some here say it already is) and a traditional combat, quest and mission system, and make it F2P. At least they'll be getting customers.

But, if they took this route, then fix the game, improve upon it, see what you originally intended the game to be and let it grow. EVE Online has been doing that continuously, religiously, and rather consistently. What is preventing other companies from doing the same who probably have more operating revenue than CCP has? I'd honestly like to know.

I believe that's one of the core issues with many major game companies nowadays. They're either trying too hard or are not trying hard enough. And, no company is willing to take the risks to try something different. Just slap a generic story, make it either an FPS or a third person game, and market it as the "next big thing in gaming" at E3 or Gamescon. I have probably bought twice more indie games than from major companies such as Ubisoft, EA, and others these past two years than I have done before. Indie games are willing to be unique. If major game companies followed that same drive and energy, and creativity, then maybe, just maybe, no one would be prophesizing the death of computer and/or console gaming.
 
NKDietrich said:
Developers need to stop sinking so much money into the titles and think a bit more modestly. Market to a niche like EVE Online does.
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I'd like to see more of this too. WoW set a ridiculous bar where anything less than about 10m subscribers is now considered a "failure", but it didn't set it in the current climate for new MMOs where fewer people are willing to pay a recurring subscription at all (something which GW2 was prepared for, but TSW wasn't apparently).
 
Udgnim said:
GW2 happened and people are already looking for the next best thing
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Yep... FranklyShankly continuously posts on TSW forums to bash it though, since he got a registered account back before they required purchase to post there, to this day. I don't know why.

GW2 had its 15 minutes of fame, already... people indeed are looking for something better now.

TSW released at a bad time, right before GW2 and WOW: Pandaria, with its relatively unique gameplay and non-standard design systems (good as they are), it hasn't caught on commercially. It is still very much alive and populated in-game and on the forums, but sales numbers weren't exactly what anyone was hoping for.

I'm still unsure how anyone thinks WOW and TSW are anything alike other than that they're both online Role-Playing Games... that's like saying Quake 3 Arena is similar to ARMA 2 or Day-Z.

Langly said:
Its really not dead though, give it a play.

And to do the dungeons on normal mode, you don't need to have a huge amazing skill set list by farming tons of quest. You will have enough points from doing normal quest and using gear drops from normal mobs to be able to start through the dungeons and progress easily. I've got a dps build and tank build and I've just done the normal questing through to transylvania.

The big issue with the game is they marketed it like shit and released it at a bad time. They should of waited sometime between this November/Feb and built up a good marketing campaign with it. Would of avoided GW2 and WoW:pandas
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Well said, and completely correct.
 
Udgnim said:
GW2 happened and people are already looking for the next best thing
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my list of all the full or heavy load GW2 servers disagrees with you. Oh, I take that back there is ONE medium pop GW2 server...the people that left that one must be the ones looking for the next big thing I guess
 
Stiler said:
He is ABSOLUTELY correct.

I mean it worked for SW:TOR, Warhammer Online, Aion, Tera.......need I go on? Making a game "just like wow" is the quickest and sure fire way to have it bomb. There's aa reason for that, why would players leave wow for a game just like it? They won't, they may "try" your game, but once that free month is up and they see it's the "same ole thing" they'll go back to WoW where they've already invested hundreds of hours into it and have friends there.

People in the mmo genre want osmething NEW and something different, not the same old damn thing. The problem is NO ONE wants to give us that.

What this guy is saying is the EXACT reason most people that played it liked it. The "detective" style missions and the FREEDOM to build your character is what makes it stand out/fun.

The problem WAS NOT These things, the problem (and you can see this on the forums and about ANYWHERE the game is talked about) is the mind numbingly bad combat system. It's even worse then most "usual" mmo styles. It just boils down tno pressing 1, 1, 1, 1 to build up your pool, then pushing your 2 finishers, it's the same thing over and over and over.

They basically make the world, quests, player freedom all GREAT but then left the combat (Which is what you'll be doing the majority of the game, it's the "meat" of the game like most mmo's) as the worst thing.

They should have taken a bigger risk imo, made combat full out action, have to aim guns, melee combat that plays more actiony like M&B/Jedi Knight or something.

Then on top of this the advertising for teh game was almost non existant. I tried to get some people into it when it first came out and they were mostly like "wtf is that?"
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honestly if they kept the combat system age of conan uses and used it in secret world I would be playing Secret World right now. Everything else about the game is fine but the combat just puts you to sleep.
 
I can't say anything about the gameplay, but the fact that this game has a $50 price tag, a monthly subscription fee, AND microtransactions, completely turned me off to the game. The concept looks very interesting but the cost is just way too high when there are plenty of MMO-like games with no subscription fee these days.
 
MavericK96 said:
I can't say anything about the gameplay, but the fact that this game has a $50 price tag, a monthly subscription fee, AND microtransactions, completely turned me off to the game. The concept looks very interesting but the cost is just way too high when there are plenty of MMO-like games with no subscription fee these days.
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Just to note, while it has a $50 box fee (which can be found for 25 on sales), and a sub fee (you can also just buy lifetime service for the equivalent of ~13 months of sub fees, which is what I did ($200)), the microtransactions are NOT gameplay-impacting in any way, shape, or form, as other games have done (even WOW lets you buy a free in-game mount for real cash, while having a box fee & sub; GW2 has many gameplay-impacting microtransactions and a box fee). TSW's microtransactions are *PURELY* cosmetic and optional, and there are tons of in-game-money options for cool cosmetics still.

Also, for those looking for more info about where they're going...

http://www.thesecretworld.com/news/game_director_joel_bylos_reveals_his_plans_for_the_secret_world

Big news about new features coming. Also, they'll be going into PVP systems in a live podcast through MMORPG.com on Friday.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Just to note, while it has a $50 box fee (which can be found for 25 on sales), and a sub fee (you can also just buy lifetime service for the equivalent of ~13 months of sub fees, which is what I did ($200)), the microtransactions are NOT gameplay-impacting in any way, shape, or form, as other games have done (even WOW lets you buy a free in-game mount for real cash, while having a box fee & sub; GW2 has many gameplay-impacting microtransactions and a box fee). TSW's microtransactions are *PURELY* cosmetic and optional, and there are tons of in-game-money options for cool cosmetics still.

Also, for those looking for more info about where they're going...

http://www.thesecretworld.com/news/game_director_joel_bylos_reveals_his_plans_for_the_secret_world

Big news about new features coming. Also, they'll be going into PVP systems in a live podcast through MMORPG.com on Friday.
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Still shilling for this failure of a game huh? just admit that you got ripped off and move on man.
 
I saw my brother playing this game in beta and it looked boring. As much as people rip on WoW, I always felt like you could truly explore in that game, and the environments and zones were interesting and fun. The parts of TSW I saw looked like a midwestern town, no thanks.
 
darkstarcow said:
Still shilling for this failure of a game huh? just admit that you got ripped off and move on man.
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Why I didn't agree with what Goldentiger did in the GW2 thread, you're just as bad coming in here and posting this.

I enjoyed both games for what they were and wish both succeeded.

TSW released at a terrible time, right before GW2 (which had huge hype behind it) and MoP for the other mmo crowd. It didn't have nearly the marketing push either of those had but it was different from both in many good ways, but terrible combat hurt it.

GW2 released and was fun, but it was lacking thati "Gw1" feel, and even though the game wanted to be "different" a lot of it's structure is built like usual mmo's with just slight tweaks. The whole "go to this heart and then complete any of these objectives" is bascially the same old mmo style questing without the lore or writing to back it up and it gets super repeitive and boring. It did some things great, some events were memorable, the weapon swapping was nice, and the exploration rewards were good, bu the "heart" questing and the end-game gear-grind focus ruined it for many people. People are already starting to tire of GW2 and looking for the next mmo.
 
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