The Samsung QLED q90a will be released in a 43" model.

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Any of your Neo QLED owners notice PWM flickering? I am thinking of getting a QN85A but I have been mainly using monitors that are flicker free right now. I guess either you can set brightness to 100% or turn on VRR to reduce PWM flicker, is that what you guys usually do?
 

Senn

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The issue I'm talking about is little artifacts around text. It should be easily noticeable unless it was isolated to only that panel. Check with hdr on & 100 scaling on windows and browser. Not sure how this could be just on my sample i had because everything else worked perfectly especially gaming was spectacular & sharp but then on browsing there were artifacts everywhere.
You should have taken photos. You know how hard it was to get people to understand the FV43U (and other 43" panels) bug, yourself included.

You kept trying to persuade me it was BGR text rendering issues.
 

Nenu

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Any of your Neo QLED owners notice PWM flickering? I am thinking of getting a QN85A but I have been mainly using monitors that are flicker free right now. I guess either you can set brightness to 100% or turn on VRR to reduce PWM flicker, is that what you guys usually do?
Assuming the problem exists, its "back light" to 100%. This gives effectively max output on SDR. HDR is usually used at max backlight or near it.
Brightness is used for tuning the colour space.
 

SoCali

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You should have taken photos. You know how hard it was to get people to understand the FV43U (and other 43" panels) bug, yourself included.

You kept trying to persuade me it was BGR text rendering issues.
I don't have another BGR display to compare with it but to my eyes text quality is noticeably worse on this Samsung vs my CX which I thought was poor to begin with.

I think the BGR text quality and lack of sRGB clamp are legitimate deal breakers for many. The text maybe less so but the saturation and orange skin tones are really bothering me.
 

kasakka

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Sharpness was default. I never touched sharpness meter.
That might be it. The defaults are not always "sharpening off". Samsung may also have weird settings for these. My Samsung CRG9 has the value 56 as "no sharpening" because that makes sense, right? It defaults to the next step 60 which gives just enough sharpening to cause clear artifacts in small fonts.
 

Senn

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I don't have another BGR display to compare with it but to my eyes text quality is noticeably worse on this Samsung vs my CX which I thought was poor to begin with.

I think the BGR text quality and lack of sRGB clamp are legitimate deal breakers for many. The text maybe less so but the saturation and orange skin tones are really bothering me.
I don't know exactly how Windows deals with text but setting the subpixel rendering to BGR on Linux with KDE makes any BGR display I've seen show text perfectly. Or I can set it to plain anti-aliasing without the coloured subpixel magic involved and it still looks fine.

I find the conversation surrounding RGB vs BGR somewhat overblown from a personal perspective. It gets the blame for so many display flaws that are fundamentally something completely different.

Fortunately I'm not too bothered about sRGB but it would be preferable to have the option.
 

xDiVolatilX

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So any qn90a owners check entertain mode, game mode, hdr on in osd & os, brightness 100, local dimming high, contrast enhance on high, hdmi black level normal, ultra hd checked, everything else default in pc mode in 2160p input fastest, vrr on, gsync on.

Check dark text on white background. Look closely do you see any artifacts above & below text?
 

SoCali

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F4C22B2C-8AA4-4ACC-9DA4-90409604C143.jpeg



I think you’re imagining things. This is black text on a white background.
 
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xDiVolatilX

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View attachment 398466


I think you’re imagining things. This is black text on a white background.

No I am not imagining things. My display was thrashed for whatever reason maybe the update ruined mine or maybe mine was just defective.

Either way that looks ok so it might have been isolated to only that open box monitor I had. Will consider getting another panel, or maybe not. We'll see.

Also at first I didn't notice it. I noticed it after the update. Also this was in HDR with the fancy settings on high. Was a mystery for sure. Oh well It's returned now.
 

Senn

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Seems you may have jumped the gun a little with that return. Still surprised you didn't take photos given how adamant you are to get others to see it. You even recite the specific settings.

Good luck if you try again though.
 

xDiVolatilX

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Seems you may have jumped the gun a little with that return. Still surprised you didn't take photos given how adamant you are to get others to see it. You even recite the specific settings.

Good luck if you try again though.
Cause I'm kinda bummed about it i loved the big beautiful qn90a. And like you I want to see if it was just mine or other have this issue also. Not sure if the update did it. Or hdr settings etc. Was really odd and caught me by surprise late in the game. Was last day so I rushed to return it that's why I couldn't take pictures because I had disconnected it hooking up the Predator to see that the Predator was flawless. At that point I didn't want to hook it back up it is huge.

Nevertheless if others notice it it will reveal itself, if not then everyone has nothing to worry about. Cause other than that it was a monster I loved it so much.
 

Senn

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Looks like the 50" without the ultra wide angle filter to me, correct me if I'm wrong!
 

SoCali

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That picture is from the 50" and yes the 55" would not be as clear a shot of the pixel structure due to the wide angle filter.

I don't see any anomolies with text other than what's caused by BGR and Windows.
 

Senn

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And like you I want to see if it was just mine or other have this issue also.
I totally get that, obviously. I had a hard enough time explaining my case with test patterns and photos to back it up though. Perfect case of pics or it didn't happen.
 

xDiVolatilX

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I totally get that, obviously. I had a hard enough time explaining my case with test patterns and photos to back it up though. Perfect case of pics or it didn't happen.
Believe me if I hadn't unhooked it I would have. Pics weren't on my mind at the moment. Returning a defective panel over $1100 dollars was i was at the end of the 14 day return period.

If other 50 owners can confirm their text is clear with hdr on with the latest (auto update) firmware (not manual usb) then it should be ok. Let's see. Even if I did take pictures which i didn't, others would be able to see these artifacts even without pics to notice. Like I didn't need pics. I noticed them on my own. That's why I want 50 owners to check text with hdr on.
 
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xDiVolatilX

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USB. It hasn't been available OTA for me.
Ok maybe the manual update done with a USB drive would have either fixed it, or the firmware before that messed something up. Because I only noticed it after the auto update firmware. I'm sure I would have noticed it before the update I had my face up to the screen when I first got it. After the update I noticed it 3 feet away.
 

Nenu

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I dont see a reason to suspect his testimony, I trust he saw what he did.
Nothing tells me he is a BS'er.
The question is whether this has value in the long run, which is something he is trying to establish.
But its difficult without other people using the same display.
 

Senn

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View attachment 398466


I think you’re imagining things. This is black text on a white background.
That pixel structure had me interested so I did some peeping on both the FV43U and my old 55" 1080p Sony W9 from 2012.

FV43U
20211004_163557.jpg


Sony W9
20211004_110245.jpg


Definitely some differing pixel methods here. The FV is more what you'd expect visually, as the darker rows between physical pixels denote where the rendered pixels are. The W9 (and the QN90A) seem to have the black row within the rendered pixels giving what looks like an overlapped pixel structure. It's strange looking up close like this but comparing the two I vastly prefer text on the W9 (despite being 1080p at 55"!) because it doesn't have any pixel row interference to speak of, unlike the FV.

There's not much point to this post, just found it interesting and thought I'd share my display snobbery of the day. (y)

Buuut saying that it might explain why Windows' subpixel rendering techniques don't play ball with it at all times. Again, on Linux/KDE with BGR mode on, it's totally fine. Now I just need to order a QN94A and see if I can get along with it.
 

pclausen

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Picked up a Q90A today from Crutchfield, and everything is fuzzy on the screen. I'm on HDMI4. GPU is a 3090. Using a Ruipro certified 8K60Hz/4K120Hz HDMI cable.

Info on the TV shows the following:

input_info.png


HDMI4 is set to PC mode and game.

Nvidia display panel shows PC mode and 3840 x 2160 as well. Color settings as follows: (actual screenshot showing how bad it looks)

color_settings.png


Another actual screen cap with green which really shows how bad things look:

mining.png


TV Info:

IMG_2811.JPG


Note how much clearer text produced by the TV itself looks compared to what the 3090 is sending.

Any idea what might be going on here?
 

Nenu

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Picked up a Q90A today from Crutchfield, and everything is fuzzy on the screen. I'm on HDMI4. GPU is a 3090. Using a Ruipro certified 8K60Hz/4K120Hz HDMI cable.

Info on the TV shows the following:

View attachment 400840

HDMI4 is set to PC mode and game.

Nvidia display panel shows PC mode and 3840 x 2160 as well. Color settings as follows: (actual screenshot showing how bad it looks)

View attachment 400842

Another actual screen cap with green which really shows how bad things look:

View attachment 400844

TV Info:

View attachment 400845

Note how much clearer text produced by the TV itself looks compared to what the 3090 is sending.

Any idea what might be going on here?

Drop to 30Hz.
If that looks good, the problem is lack of bandwidth, ie faulty cable or bad connection. Possibly a problem with the TVs HDMI port settings.
This results in either upscaling to UHD even though it is set as UHD res (Had a strange thing like this using an HDMI 1.3 cable on a CRG9 Widescreen, it was set to full res but it was clearly much lower res which the display must have upscaled.) ,
OR Windows is changing from 4:4:4 colour to 4:2:2 or 4:2:0.

I cant see your images to confirm, my internets a git.
 
Last edited:

Wiz33

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Picked up a Q90A today from Crutchfield, and everything is fuzzy on the screen. I'm on HDMI4. GPU is a 3090. Using a Ruipro certified 8K60Hz/4K120Hz HDMI cable.

Info on the TV shows the following:

View attachment 400840

HDMI4 is set to PC mode and game.

Nvidia display panel shows PC mode and 3840 x 2160 as well. Color settings as follows: (actual screenshot showing how bad it looks)

View attachment 400842

Another actual screen cap with green which really shows how bad things look:

View attachment 400844

TV Info:

View attachment 400845

Note how much clearer text produced by the TV itself looks compared to what the 3090 is sending.

Any idea what might be going on here?

What screen size did you get? If you're using one larger than 50", then it might be the Ultra Viewing Angle layer affecting the clarity. What length cable are you using. Have you tried a different HDMI 2.1 certified cable?

This is what my Q90T looks like

IMG_9066.jpg
 
Last edited:

kasakka

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Picked up a Q90A today from Crutchfield, and everything is fuzzy on the screen. I'm on HDMI4. GPU is a 3090. Using a Ruipro certified 8K60Hz/4K120Hz HDMI cable.

Info on the TV shows the following:

View attachment 400840

HDMI4 is set to PC mode and game.

Nvidia display panel shows PC mode and 3840 x 2160 as well. Color settings as follows: (actual screenshot showing how bad it looks)

View attachment 400842

Another actual screen cap with green which really shows how bad things look:

View attachment 400844

TV Info:

View attachment 400845

Note how much clearer text produced by the TV itself looks compared to what the 3090 is sending.

Any idea what might be going on here?
Check your sharpness settings. It might be something like sharpness at zero is not actually off but just blurs the image.
 

pclausen

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It was indeed sharpness being set to zero!

So what sharpness value should I use to disable it completely? I'm currently at 10, which seem like a decent compromise.

What are you guys settings for everything else under Expert Settings? I currently have:

15 Brightness
50 Contrast
10 Sharpness
30 Color
0 Tint (G/R)
Standard Local Dimming
Off Contrast Enhancer
Warm1 Color Tone
0 Shadow Detail
0 ST.2084 Gamma
 

kasakka

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It was indeed sharpness being set to zero!

So what sharpness value should I use to disable it completely? I'm currently at 10, which seem like a decent compromise.
I would check what the default is. It is either with sharpening or no sharpening. If you can see artifacts in especially small font text then you have sharpening on so try reducing the value. If you have a second monitor you can use for comparison that would help.
 

pclausen

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I checked out the rtings review here:



And they said to set sharpness to 0 to disable it, but that is clearly not working for me.

I have several other monitors/TVs that are all pixel perfect as follows:

Samsung Odyssey G9
Lenovo G27Q
Samsung JS9000 (49" curved) I followed the guide here to set it up way back in 2015: https://hardforum.com/threads/2015-samsung-4k-tv-as-a-monitor-set-up-guide.1869675/
Samsung QN85Q80T
LG 84UB9800 (2015 model pre HDR)
LG 55CX

The first 2 are of course real monitors so it makes sense those would be pixel perfect. The last 3 are rarely connected to a computer except for occasional gaming when friends are over. But they have no "fuzziness" in text at all.

I'll see if I can clear some space on my desk to have the G9 hooked up alongside the QN90A to compare them. The QN90A replaced the G9 as my primary display and at first it seemed like the center part of the screen of the QN90A was curved TOWARDS me as opposed to being flat. I guess I had gotten so used to the extreme curvature of the G9. Funny how the mind plays tricks on you like that.
 

kasakka

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I checked out the rtings review here:



And they said to set sharpness to 0 to disable it, but that is clearly not working for me.

Samsung may have weirdness like offering a different scale in PC mode vs TV mode where in PC mode say 50 is no sharpening and in TV mode 0 is no sharpening. My CRG9 uses an insane value of 56 for no sharpening with 60 being the default where it clearly has enough sharpening to show up as artifacts in small text.
 

Senn

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I finally got my hands on the 50" QN94A in place of the FV43U as my primary monitor.

Most importantly for me it has fixed any and all pixel interference trouble (did pleeeenty of tests) that was pissing me off on the FV. It has also made me realise just how yellow tinted the sides and especially the corners on the FV are. The QN is almost completely devoid of DSE and tinting, to the point I can only see drops in uniformity when staring at all-grey tests. A definite positive as the FV's corner tinting was visible on pretty much all content if you knew it was there.

I'm running local dimming on low for desktop use, anything else likes to hide my cursor on black backgrounds which is a little odd. But even on high it's not as obnoxious as the more primitive LD on the FV43U - when I could get it working on the FV without the screen turning into an acid trip. I will have to test it in some games.

As for the mentioned sharpening settings, using the PC mode means sharpening set to 10 is off. 11 starts sharpening, 9 is slightly softer. 10 definitely looks like the untouched signal and looks perfect in any sharpness test.

Tried the PS5 (only in menu, haven't had the chance to test out the HDR on this thing yet), sharpness was again set to 10 by default but it was obviously over sharpened. Pulling it down to 0 made it look normal, no obvious softening so I think kasakka is right - different scales for different modes. Misleading but it can at least be set to off still.

I've only had it a couple of days but I'm pretty happy with it so far. Barring any failures I think I'll keep hold of it and consider this my current end-game until display tech really moves on (micro LED, hopefully).

I thank this thread and its residents for pointing me towards the QN. :D
 

pclausen

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Yep, I agree that Sharpness = 10 is correct in PC mode.

Below is 120Hz with VRR HDR and UHD:

IMG_2812.JPG


The artifacts on those bottom 2 lines are from my iPhone X. When I put my eyeballs up to the screen they look perfect.

I'm using 32-bit color depth 10 bpc RGB and Full dynamics range. I tried output format YCbCr444 as well, but I couldn't detect a difference and both pass the above test just fine.
 

Senn

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Probably the only thing I'd pull over from the FV43U are the overdrive level settings. I used "Balanced" which gave a decent subjective response time boost, but it was at the cost of a lot more overshoot than I'm seeing on this panel.

Most of the time the slight reduction in apparent response is probably a worthy compromise to get rid of that overshoot honestly. This QN94A feels closest to the "Picture Quality" overdrive level on the FV43U but again with less overshoot.
 

SoCali

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You should manually update to the latest firmware. LD on high properly illuminates the mouse cursor in most situations outside of a mostly black screen.
 

Senn

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You should manually update to the latest firmware. LD on high properly illuminates the mouse cursor in most situations outside of a mostly black screen.
Yeah it definitely seems better after doing this, though I'm certain I keep running into the infamous LD bug. Might do the equally infamous instant-on switch off thing.
 
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Picked up a Q90A today from Crutchfield, and everything is fuzzy on the screen. I'm on HDMI4. GPU is a 3090. Using a Ruipro certified 8K60Hz/4K120Hz HDMI cable.

Info on the TV shows the following:

HDMI4 is set to PC mode and game.

Nvidia display panel shows PC mode and 3840 x 2160 as well. Color settings as follows: (actual screenshot showing how bad it looks)

View attachment 400842

Another actual screen cap with green which really shows how bad things look:



TV Info:



Note how much clearer text produced by the TV itself looks compared to what the 3090 is sending.

Any idea what might be going on here?

Interesting yours says limited color 4:4:4? I wonder if that's the issue, or maybe you need to switch to RGB.

For me no matter what cable I use, my QN85A only supports 8bit color. Even if its 120hz, 60hz, 30hz, whatever. For whatever reason I can't get 10 bit color on my TV. Using an RTX 3080.


1633718051445.png
 

SoCali

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Yeah it definitely seems better after doing this, though I'm certain I keep running into the infamous LD bug. Might do the equally infamous instant-on switch off thing.
Yeah I ended up buying a IR remote to disable that and prevent the issue all together.
 

Senn

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Fortunately the QN94A here in the UK came with two remotes.

20211008_213535.jpg


My 9 year old Sony W9 had pretty much the same thing.
 
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