The Reason Most Pirates Don't Go Legit

BBA said:
Just reading the narrative was funny.

Interestingly, my own study (of no research) shows thast most bank robbers would also prefer the convience of having someone elses money given to them when ever they chose.
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I earn over $100k a year. It has nothing to do with the money and everything to do with ease of use.
 
Again, there is a vast market of consumers being ignored because people seem to beleive that people only pirate for monetary reasons.

I surely cannot be the only one that would pay good money for a legal and easy to use service offering scene quality bluray rips, and fast downloads.
 
snowcrash said:
Why do people pirate?

Because they can get it for free.

It's ok though. Karma will eventually get these idiots.
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This. Claim to want easier access all of you want, or that it's supposedly overpriced, but the truth is you want a product for nothing and you feel entitled to make your own custom offering even when it isn't legally available. Narcissism and greed on the pirates' part. If you don't buy it, you don't deserve to have access to it. Basic society 101.
 
Mchart said:
Again, there is a vast market of consumers being ignored because people seem to beleive that people only pirate for monetary reasons.

I surely cannot be the only one that would pay good money for a legal and easy to use service offering scene quality bluray rips, and fast downloads.
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If someone came out with a Steam like platform for TV and Movies, I'd already have spent a few hundred on it.

But no one has. Netflix is alright, and close, but it's not there.

If someone were to combine Netflix like distribution with XBMC like user interface, someone would be raking in SERIOUS cash.

I wonder...
 
Mchart said:
I earn over $100k a year. It has nothing to do with the money and everything to do with ease of use.
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Then buy them. Rip them to your hard disk yourself. Your line of claiming "it's not the money, lolol" is bull... Just because someone doesn't offer the exact version and product you want doesn't entitle you to go rip them off. Prove you would have paid and do so.
 
Mchart said:
As you allready know you only get channels like NBC over the air HD. The vast majority of content I want to watch is not on these channels. A nextflix subcription doesn't 'fix' the problem either.
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I never claimed the arrangement would be perfect. Basic cable was certainly never perfect, was it? Not since I've been alive, anyway.

I just don't understand where the sense of entitlement comes from. If you don't like the offerings, don't pay the price. How do you go from "I'm not satisfied with the price" to "I'm just going to take it without paying"? Is it just low moral fortitude, or is there something more to it?
 
GoldenTiger said:
Then buy them. Rip them to your hard disk yourself. Your line of claiming "it's not the money, lolol" is bull... Just because someone doesn't offer the exact version and product you want doesn't entitle you to go rip them off. Prove you would have paid and do so.
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You are right. I'm not entitled to download free versions of their product.


But guess what?

I am.

They have the choice of either offering a service that makes sense in the year 2012, or continue offering shitty service that people like me will continue giving the finger.

Or just lame out and sue people because they are so thick headed that they refuse to utilize the internet.
 
And also, your statement about me buying them and ripping them to my disk is flawed by the way.

It is illegal to rip DVD's/Bluray's/Whatever to ones disk even if you own said disk. Some movies include the legal 'rip it' feature, but that is a very small number of movies.
 
wonderfield said:
I never claimed the arrangement would be perfect. Basic cable was certainly never perfect, was it? Not since I've been alive, anyway.

I just don't understand where the sense of entitlement comes from. If you don't like the offerings, don't pay the price. How do you go from "I'm not satisfied with the price" to "I'm just going to take it without paying"? Is it just low moral fortitude, or is there something more to it?
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I've never said it was about the price. Stop putting words in my mouth.

I've always said i'm going to take it without paying.

The point that matters is that i've given a clearly defined method in which they could capture the market. The PC Gaming industry mostly got the hint. The music industry has done an almost complete change in the past couple of years as well. They get it.

Meanwhile, the movie industry is missing out on millions of dollars of profit because they refuse to change.
 
Mchart said:
I've never said it was about the price. Stop putting words in my mouth.
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Considering you've brought up pricing several times in this thread, obviously it has something to do with price. You said you wouldn't pay $30 for a Blu-ray; you said you'd pay $30 for the services you've defined as being desirable. Don't tell me it has nothing to do with price.

Mchart said:
The point that matters is that i've given a clearly defined method in which they could capture the market.
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They own the market. How does one re-capture a market one already owns?
 
1. POS game, with a crappy port with crappy keyboard and mouse assignment.
2. Way Overpriced for the content run time
3. Can't do co-op
4 Can't set up your own LAN (I refuse to play online with screaming foul mouthed 12 year old cheaters)
5 Lack of a Demo?

Last game I bought was MaxPayne 3. (On Sale) I liked it and it ran pretty good. Playing it on hard it lasted quite some time. Just for drill I let the credits run at the end looking for a teaser if you sat through them. Holy Crapola, 4 days and 3 nights later it made it to the end. The amount of people involved in making this thing is incredible. If all those people are on the payroll no wonder they have to sell a billion copies to make money
 
wonderfield said:
Considering you've brought up pricing several times in this thread, obviously it has something to do with price. You said you wouldn't pay $30 for a Blu-ray; you said you'd pay $30 for the services you've defined as being desirable. Don't tell me it has nothing to do with price.


They own the market. How does one re-capture a market one already owns?
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By re-capturing it from illegal distribution. They have to re-capture it. That is the entire point. That is why they are loosing money.
 
Different people pirates for different reason.

But it is a fact that the ease of access to a media is beneficial to everyone, and it encourages people to pay for your content. I don't care if those people would otherwise pirate or not buy at all. The important thing is to get people to pay for your product or service.

The problem is the large corporate are backing each other instead of putting the customer first. Movie studios don't want their content to go on streaming services early to protect the theater business for example. Had they allow people the choice of watching a new movie at the theater or at home through streaming services, I'm sure more people would be willing to spend money to see the movie on release.

And that long running joke about having to watch countless warning and ads on a DVD is only funny because its true. People do get annoyed with crap like this.

Companies focus too much on the pirates which IMO is pointless. Instead, they should be asking themself what can they do to get more people to buy their product. Focus on the paying customers or potential customers.
 
I'd pay for Dish or Direct TV if it was "pay per channel" instead of their packages. I think they would do rather well with a $1 per channel per month setup. As it stands, Ill stick with sickbeard and sab. As for movies, ease of use is the biggest factor along with a price point that makes sense. Something like Steam for movies would work well. Throw in those "Steam deals" for movies or boxsets and they would probably pull most pirates away like Steam has for those that used to pirate games. Those saying that pirates are just stealing blah, blah, blah...I buy the stuff I really want and pirate all the crap I can never justify buying in the first place. Pirating has been going on since the VCR/cassette days. I certainly dont recall companies complaining about using those formats to "pirate".
 
ScottSwing said:
You believe in Karma, but go around calling people idiots. Karma will eventually get you.
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Not to mention he acts as if pirating movies is some sort of big hit to 'karma'. Pretty sure I do things on a day to day that are positive that vastly outweigh any 'negative karma' from pirating.
 
collegeboy69us said:
Bottom line I will spend my money on something if it's worth it.

Movies/TV/Games/Women/Cars -- i don't care what category or what conditions are attached, the bottom line is it has to be WORTH it.

I haven't had an actual TV or cable/sat service in 2+ years because it's not worth it to pay upwards of 1000 dollars a year so I can sit and watch commercials.

Same with movies -- I flat refuse to pay 10-20 dollars for a bluray pop it in and not be able to watch my movie for 5 minutes because of the warnings/ads. Actual movie theaters? It has to be a DAMN good movie for me to fight the copious amounts of retarded people that are there.

I will happily go and drop 10 bucks to see batman in the theater here once the initial rush calms down. Before the days of steam a large majority of the games I played were pirated. Now? almost totally reversed.

Movies and TV are a different story - why do I have 10TB worth of space? I love my HD movies and tv collections, and until that industry joins the 21st century in terms of distribution and use they can suck it. I can't tell you how nice it is to download an episode of futurama in 5 minutes, and then be able to watch it on my huge ass monitor, or watch it on my tablet or phone while taking a dump or laying in bed (steam over my network) with no commercials, no loading, and no 3rd party software.

People don't wake up in the morning and think "oh man I can't wait to see what I can steal online today". You will always have cheap skates, but if a company is failing it's because either 1) your product sucks or 2) you are distributing/charging the wrong price.

I generally have no interest in windows 8 - but you can't ignore the fact that MS is taking the smarter approach of only charging what? 30-40 dollars? If I ever decide to jump into it, I'd happily pay that for an OS. I could see why in the past WinXP/Win7 was pirated out the ass, 200-300 dollars for an OS is hard to swallow if you are having to upgrade every 2 or 3 years.
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Took the words right out of my mouth. I completely agree with this 100%, have a very similar setup, and justify it the same way.

I would gladly pay more for a netflix like service that doesn't have shit content. If netflix had access to all tv shows/movies I would glady pay more for that type of service. 50$/mo would be nothing if they had that kind of service. Look at steam for games and spotify for music. I don't pirate ANY music or games at all, period. I have easy legal access that works perfectly so why would I waste my time downloading a potentially shit copy or virus etc.
 
i'd love to be able to pay to watch a movie on release day at home instead of going to the theater. because you don't have the middle man of the theater involved it would be a lot cheaper, and i wouldn't have to wait for a quality rip of a newer movie that i actually want to watch.
 
Not to mention having some kid asking "what's a nut?" when watching Ted.
 
That's the thing - I have no interest in buying DRM'd movie downloads. But as a consumer - at least I can get a BD which has minimal annoyance DRM (with no remote servers) and resellability.

I've had a very, very limited amount of funds in the last year or two to spend and I'm not spending it supporting DRM.

On the positive side - some companies / folks get it.

Louis CK got it with his un-DRM'd download-show recently.

Tor (the fantasy/sci-fi division of Macmillan) just went DRM-free with their ebooks this week.
I've got a ton of suddenly DRM-free, completely portable ebooks on my wish list. I want to support the authors. But I'm not 'buying' DRM'd ebooks with all these limitations - not being able to share with a friend/wife, not being able to copy/move around without some B.S. Adobe DRM software, etc.

The funny thing is, removing the DRM is basically a one-click process at this point - but I hate supporting it. I don't do it. I'm more likely to buy the hardcover book for $14 and pirate the ebook to go with it, versus paying a few bucks less for the DRM'd ebook.
 
snowcrash said:
Why do people pirate?

Because they can get it for free.

It's ok though. Karma will eventually get these idiots.
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I buy CDs (and digital music if the price is right). Only non-RIAA and DRM-free stuff. I buy way more music and books (the physical kind) than average users.
Yet I never paid for a movie or TV series for the last ten years.

I *pay* for piracy. I've donated time and money to pirate communities, uploaded stuff myself, paid for servers with a lot of bandwidth.

You have to be an idiot to believe it's about getting things for free.
 
GoldenTiger said:
you feel entitled to make your own custom offering even when it isn't legally available.
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What about the entitlement of copy"right"?

I also spent hundreds on Firefly merchandise, watch it every year or so, yet I have no DVD and Bluray of it.
Explain that.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Then buy them. Rip them to your hard disk yourself. Your line of claiming "it's not the money, lolol" is bull... Just because someone doesn't offer the exact version and product you want doesn't entitle you to go rip them off. Prove you would have paid and do so.
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piratedvd.jpg


This quote comes to mind:

I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do -Heinlein

Treating me as a criminal whether or not I pirated their content isn't going to gain any brown nosing points from me for any company. My $ doesn't support garbage and never will.
 
wonderfield said:
What about it?
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It's not a right, it tries to be property on things that can't be property.

Same as with patents, the "right" holders feel entitled to be paid for it.

I would never steal something and feel bad for people who get robbed, no matter if "rich" or "poor". But for copyright and patents, I feel nothing.
 
pankkake said:
It's not a right, it tries to be property on things that can't be property.
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The idea of personal property rights is as an arbitrary a construct as the idea of copyright. They're both constructs we as a society have seen fit to create, define and adhere to. You do believe in personal property rights, I'm guessing?

pankkake said:
II would never steal something and feel bad for people who get robbed, no matter if "rich" or "poor". But for copyright and patents, I feel nothing.
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Create something of value and then tell me if you feel the same way about copyright.
 
If the entertainment industry hadn't dragged its feet into the internet age, the pirate culture would have been less established. And, if the entertainment age didn't insist on keeping all the benefits to modern technology in their side, I might be a little more appreciative of their position.
 
Stone Cold said:
If the entertainment industry hadn't dragged its feet into the internet age, the pirate culture would have been less established. And, if the entertainment age didn't insist on keeping all the benefits to modern technology in their side, I might be a little more appreciative of their position.
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They charge the same for a hard copy as they do for a digital download and riddle them both with ads. This extends past movies and into books and video games.

Seriously-meme.jpg
 
KayossZero said:
piratedvd.jpg


This quote comes to mind:

I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do -Heinlein

Treating me as a criminal whether or not I pirated their content isn't going to gain any brown nosing points from me for any company. My $ doesn't support garbage and never will.
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I was about to reply saying [ INSERT FAMOUS MATRIX DVD PICTURE ]

The article isn't 100% right, in that a factor that is not accounted for is that you can go straight to the movie. Convenience is the fact that you don't have to get up and go to the store and pay - but being able to skip the retarded commercials no one wants to see for the millionth time is more along the line of customization of the experience. You can remove what you don't want, you can add what you do want.

Instead the media wants to control you - and people like us say FUCK THAT. If I'm paying for it, I want to control the product I pay for. If I buy furniture, I can fuck around with it and smash it with a sledge hammer if I want to. I understand we aren't "buying" the actual movie, but we want to view the movie. We don't want to view previews from 1998 in 2012.
 
wonderfield said:
The idea of personal property rights is as an arbitrary a construct as the idea of copyright. They're both constructs we as a society have seen fit to create, define and adhere to. You do believe in personal property rights, I'm guessing?


Create something of value and then tell me if you feel the same way about copyright.
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He has created a something of value. He created a textual representation of his thoughts. You copied it.:D
 
wonderfield said:
In this thread: people justifying copyright infringement.
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You don't even have to justify it. There is nothing just, right, or really inherently rational about either side of the argument. Copyright is nothing more than an agreement made between industry and government and as such it is or at least should be a living conversation to represent the will of the people.

If you don't agree to it, there is absolutely no natural, religious, or otherwise sacred law that says copyright is well.. anything. It's a very poorly shoehorned-in crutch to make unscarce items work in Capitalism. There is no moral basis to copyright to begin with so really justification depends solely on your relationship to other laws - speeding, jaywalking, etc. Most people speed a little and jaywalk without apology. There's no need to particularly justify either. Life isn't Crito.

More importantly, as copyright is a construct designed to promote artificial scarcity, it's something that in the next 10-20 years will become a major problem as control is rightfully lost over the ability to reproduce simple physical goods and digital items. It's not much of a discussion now, but it will be when you can start printing door handles, panels, and physical goods from your home.
 
wonderfield said:
You guys really need to get with the times.
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If this is what you honestly beleive then you really are clueless as to how 'good' iTunes service currently is. The worst part of it is that they are the 'best' currently when it comes to digital entertainment downloads.

The picture comes nowhere close to what reality is.

First off, let me begin with the first upper half of the picture describing 'pirating'.

Hardly anyone who is in this discussion in this thread purchases illegally copied DVD/Bluray's from some dude at an illegal shop stall in Taiwan. That is what this is positing with the picture.

Now let me move to the bottom half and move back to how I opened this reply.

You can't just 'download' from iTunes. Why?

-Many movies aren't even on iTunes
-Most that are are not offered as 'HD' downloads
-Ones that are offered as 'HD' downloads are only HD in resolution but are so high in compression that they look like shit anyways
-The iStore download server the majority of the time is overloaded and comes nowhere near supplying enough bandwidth for me to purchase a movie, and watch it within a reasonable time period. This includes the fact that iTunes lets you watch while it downloads. More then half of the iTunes movie rental purchases i've made have had such slow downloads that it is unable to buffer fast enough.
-And finally, i'm forced to watch said media on an iDevice or in iTunes on my PC which is not my ideal method of viewing media.

So really, please just stop positing that there is a legal method which you seem to beleive offers a decent quality of service. Your own view of how people even pirate media is skewed as well. I have 100Mbps worth of bandwidth to the outside world. I need only spend a minute searching for the bluray rip I want on a linksharing forum, and then spend however long it takes to download said rip maxing out my 12MBps internet connection. I then double click the .mkv file and it begins playing in VLC.

-I am able to download the media as fast as my connection allows it
-I am not restricted to using iTunes to play the media. (iTunes runs like shit on the PC BTW.)
-I get much higher quality then ANY other legal download service. I could download full-untouched bluray rips if I wanted to. I normally download the 1080p 8-15GB rips though.
-It is only a tad more difficult finding the media that I want.

I would use iTunes every time I wanted a movie if:

-It had every movie.
-The downloads were on par with the scene standards for bluray rips.
-And, the most important point - Their servers were fast enough to allow me to stream the movie, or it came anywhere near to maxing out my internet connection. If some shitbird operation like Megaupload/Rapidshare/whatever can max out my internet connection a legit service like the iStore should be able to max out my connection.
 
wonderfield said:
The idea of personal property rights is as an arbitrary a construct as the idea of copyright. They're both constructs we as a society have seen fit to create, define and adhere to. You do believe in personal property rights, I'm guessing?


Create something of value and then tell me if you feel the same way about copyright.
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If I created a piece of digital media for mass consumption I would not be angered at people who pirated said material. I would be angry at the publisher who published my media and isn't with the fucking times yet.

If I were Ridley Scott, James Cameron, etc.. I would use the push I have on my own industry to force change in how my media gets published. Why? Because I want to make money off my creations. I know that some people will always pirate regardless. I also know through my own personal experiances that people pirate my media because the people who publish my media do not offer a level of service which is expected in 2012 and with the advent of the internet. The money is being lost due to poor business decisions. The result of these poor business decisions is that people will pirate, or not even view my media.
 
InternationalHat said:
There is no moral basis to copyright to begin with so really justification depends solely on your relationship to other laws - speeding, jaywalking, etc. Most people speed a little and jaywalk without apology. There's no need to particularly justify either. Life isn't Crito.
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No, a person justifies both. A person speeds because he wishes to arrive at some destination more quickly, or because he feels the speed limit is inadequate. A person jaywalks because he doesn't wish to walk to the nearest intersection to perform a legal crossing or wait for the proper time to cross. Both actions must be justified by the person performing the action: they don't just happen as a result of random synapses firing.

Occasionally these things happen unintentionally or as a result of ignorance of law, but I don't believe that's what you're really getting at.

Besides, is what I said not true? Are many in this thread not explaining the ways in which they justify piracy? Regardless of how you feel about copyright, you can't actually deny this, can you?
 
LordCalin said:
I wouldn't even say cost is as high a factor as convenience.

TV shows with 0 commercials people can watch when they want? yes please.
Movies without trailers you can't skip, annoying menus, anti-piracy warnings, just hit play and relax to enjoy... yes please.
Video games without annoying always-on DRM that causes you to lose a save point or not be able to play at all since your nets down? yes please.
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I would glagly pay for this.

Too bad that idiots clearly dont want our money....

 
Anything which can be copied - has a copy-right. That covers a lot of things. It includes everything that you can see. To look at anything, there is a cost. One way or another, you are going to expend something in the process of looking at it. Like the supplier, what the customer is looking for a return on their investment. That includes energy over time as well as money.
 
Wright’s Law: “Everything in existence follows the path of least resistance available”.:cool:

Plot your “path of least resistance available”, and that is where you are going. This is the law of the Universe (and God if you like).:p
 
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