The perfect 4K 43” monitor! Soon! Asus XG438Q ROG

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Omegaferrari, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. elvn

    elvn 2[H]4U

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    There are a lot of 43" 4k monitors with their relatively high ppi that function great as desktop/app monitors at 60hz without variable refresh. Once hdmi 2.1 starts to become dominant in the following years a lot of tvs should have hdmi 2.1's VRR and QFT for 4k 120hz variable refresh rate and quick frame transport (low input lag gaming).

    HDR - you'll probably be paying for it
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Without FALD or OLED you really can't do even fractional HDR properly and it's marketed as a HDR 600 monitor. They are probably going to up the price due to that label.

    Gamers don't like black smearing
    ----------------------------------------------
    Black smearing is a big complaint by a lot of people who have tried VA gaming monitors so if asus doesn't up their game this time and at least match the excellent overdrive of the LG 32GK850G, a lot of gamers will not be happy with it. That is tight to around 120fpsHz with the LG overdrive implementation, it gets worse from outpacing the VA response times at 144hz and 165hz. The other VA gaming monitors in that segment all have overt black smearing, including asus' model.. according to tft central and owner reviews.

    High Hz gaming requires High Frame Rates
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    You don't get appreciable gains out of a high hz monitor's higher hz until around 100fpsHz average. (~ 70 - 100 - 130fps range graph), where you get almost no improvement at 70fpsHz, a 40% blur reduction at 100fpsHz vs 60fpsHz, and 50% blur reduction and twice the motion definition of 60fpsHz at .120fpsHz.

    ========================================

    If it doesn't have FALD that's another thing to consider if comparing and pricing vs the dell alienware oled and whether you want to break the bank on one for maybe a year before 2020 HDMI 2.1 FALD and OLED and regular backlit tvs show up in numbers with 120hz 4k and VRR, QFT being more standard. (That and the accompanying wait for a hdmi 2.1 output gaming gpu). If they are charging a lot for these without fald or oled I really don't think it would be worth it to me so it comes down to price at that point.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  2. Necere

    Necere 2[H]4U

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    The LG 32UL750-W is HDR 600 and at only $750 it's not going to have FALD (nor is dimming mentioned anywhere on the product page). So it seems FALD is far from a requirement for HDR 600 certification at least.

    That said, tftcentral reports that a HDR 1000 version of the panel used in the XG438Q is also on the way, and that could have FALD:

     
  3. elvn

    elvn 2[H]4U

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    Well you are brightening huge sections of the whole screen without FALD or per pixel emissive OLED so it's really not going to do localtized HDR light sources and highlights properly and contrast them with the rest of the scene. which is what HDR is supposed to do.. A 384 - 480 Zone FALD already has small dim or bloom areas around each direct backlit pixel between high contrast material what do you think is going to happen when you try to show 600nit light sources and edge highlights and such dynamically against darker backgrounds on a screen from a handful of edge lit flashlights?

    I just hope they aren't going to try to charge too much for this considering the specs and what else is due to come down the line, otherwise it could be fine and a good option. I appreciate the heads up on the hdr 1000 FALD monitor though thanks Sounds interesting :). I really would prefer 43" sizes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  4. oledguy1

    oledguy1 n00b

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    The Philips Momentum monitor i mentioned was a VA monitor as well. Also, I don't believe this will be a FALD monitor. Most likely edge lit.
     
  5. Wag

    Wag Gawd

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    Any news? Are we thinking 4th quarter now?
     
  6. elvn

    elvn 2[H]4U

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    I haven't heard anything.

    About that phillips it had reports of bad IR or burn-in for some reason. Also that it wasn't hdcp 2.2 compliant and had reliability issues. Matte screen. I looked into it back then but dismissed it as an option.

    From an amazon reviewer:
     
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  7. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Could be a problem for games too, as most games have static UI elements on screen while you play.
     
  8. AngryLobster

    AngryLobster Clueless

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    You are looking at reviews for a different Phillips monitor in regards to burn in. You need to filter for reviews of the 436M6VBPAB.

    Anyway, this Asus monitor will probably come Q3 or Q4 now and since there is planned a HDR1000 capable version, it will be pointless to buy for many who want the best version.
     
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  9. Wag

    Wag Gawd

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    Wait. What? There are going to be two versions of the same monitor? That doesn't make any sense. Where did you see there will be a HDR1000 version?
     
  10. Necere

    Necere 2[H]4U

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    I think AngryLobster is referring to the HDR 1000 version of the panel that is supposedly in the works (see my previous post) and making some assumptions based on that. I don't believe there have been any monitors that use it announced yet.
     
  11. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I just wish they would announce the pricing already so I can decide whether or not to continue caring :p
     
  12. elvn

    elvn 2[H]4U

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    https://www.amazon.com/Philips-436M...ll_reviews&filterByStar=critical&pageNumber=1

    ...
     
  13. EnvymeRT

    EnvymeRT Limp Gawd

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    DAMN …. I need this. I was going to get the NVIDIA OMEN BFGD but at $5000 not a chance. Just picked up an X27 4k 144hz for 999.99 but might have to upgrade when this beast comes out.
     
  14. AngryLobster

    AngryLobster Clueless

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  15. Lateralus

    Lateralus More [H]uman than Human

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    In his defense though, and it's been a while, but I believe that the 40" model previous to that one (BDM4065UC) had similar reports about image retention/burn-in. And it used a VA panel. I personally don't have a lot of faith in Philips monitors after reading about those two displays.

    This one might very well be fine, but I wouldn't want to be an early adopter.
     
  16. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    There are ways of providing feedback and counter-arguments without being insulting to people...
     
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  17. elvn

    elvn 2[H]4U

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    " You need to filter for reviews of the 436M6VBPAB."


    The reviews were all under: "https://www.amazon.com/ Philips-436M6VBPAB-DisplayHDR1000-MultiView-DisplayPort/ dp/B07D5S3QCS/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

    and the burn in ones are dated 2016. That is the one I had remembered avoiding. If they switched panels and kept the same model number as the link for mixing in all the reviews, fine. Amazon does tend to dump all reviews together unfortunately, sometimes even for different products altogether.

    The tftcentral review of the VA model mentioned good contrast with a small 32 zone array, but also mentioned bad text
    " The main issue was with the clarity of text, where the unusual pixel structure caused fringing and blurring to appear from close range. The static dithering-like artefacts visible close up on some colours was also annoying. The basically useless sRGB preset mode (with factory calibration) was also frustrating. Having said that, the default setup of the screen was decent, static contrast ratio was very high and the resolution was at least usable without scaling on a screen this size. We just didn't find it comfortable for desktop use day to day due to the text clarity and the sheer size of the screen to be honest."

    I was not insinuating that this new AUO panel would be like that one with burn in reports at all, I was just trying to remember what was wrong with the prior one I had remembered being released. I'm looking forward to seeing what is going to become available in new 43" 4k models for sure.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  18. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    It's Amazon putting multiple products that they deem "similar" on the same product page, which also makes reviews for every individual product on that page consolidated which is why you have to use the filters. The old one was using a completely different panel. The one we're talking about doesn't suffer from burn in, but does have picture issues due to the way the pixel matrix operates.

    This is the one we're talking about:
    upload_2019-3-20_11-52-18.png

    Notice the buttons under "Style." If you click on "UHD IPS" you will see the one the review about burn in was referring to.
    upload_2019-3-20_11-53-27.png
     
  19. elvn

    elvn 2[H]4U

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    Yes that's the one I was remembering vaguely but I didn't know the model number by heart and didn't even realize there was a VA one released at first (and dumped into the same parent review link). It's too bad the VA one also had a problem (pixel structure issue).

    Hoping the new 43" AUO hdr600 and hdr1000 ones will be good in 2019 - 2020. I prefer VA contrast ratio and black depth to ips and TN so that's a good start.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  20. Commander Shepard

    Commander Shepard 2[H]4U

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    The VA version looks pretty damn good... save for the $1000+ price. :eek:

    What's the pixel structure problem?
     
  21. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    It uses static dithering. Basically the subpixels are split in half vertically, and both halves are often not illumnated equally, causing and apparent "checkerboard" problem across the screen. There is also fringing around dark elements, where the subpixels surrounding darker areas are illuminated more than the other subpixels. This exacerbates the static dithering issue.

    upload_2019-3-20_15-14-2.png

    I guess it's fine if you use it for its intended purpose, which is console gaming according to Philips. But it's going to be very noticeable if you sit closer than 3 feet away from it. I sit about 3 feet away from my 49" TV, so I could imagine sitting closer to this.
     
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  22. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    4k 43" is 102.46ppi. I wouldn't call that high. That's in the range for a pretty traditional standard desktop PPI.
     
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  23. elvn

    elvn 2[H]4U

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    At an adequate distance to view most of it, it's about the same perceived ppi to your perspective as 1440p 27". I've. had both at my desk until a fe days ago.
     
  24. kasakka

    kasakka [H]ard|Gawd

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    What about when using DPI scaling? I've got a 27" 1440p display and sometimes use DPI scaling because I like the bigger and smoother text rendering. I've only tried a 4K 43" display in store but on that I felt that when DPI scaling was in use the resolution helped give better text rendering than I get on my current screen. My ideal screen would probably somewhere in the 34-38" size but fat chance of anyone ever making one with 4K 16:9 resolution so I'm planning to go for the XG438Q when it is released.
     
  25. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I view all of it just fine at a standard ~2ft desktop distance, and it's a 48" screen :p

    191957_chosen_one.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
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  26. Commander Shepard

    Commander Shepard 2[H]4U

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    I see it clearly, now. That "screen door" effect would drive me nuts, especially for $1000. (n)
     
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  27. elvn

    elvn 2[H]4U

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    Seems the same to me since the perceived ppi is the same at the minimum adequate viewing distance. I keep windows 10 scaling at 100% and use nosquint addon for chrome to scale individual web sites if necessary (usually down on jumbo text sites more than anything and to change bgcolor). I also use directory opus file manager with tabs in dual pane mode with no directory tree column. Directory Opus allows font selection, colors, bg color, highlight color customization etc. and it also allows me to change the text size of the active tab on the fly with ctrl + mouse wheel up/down.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  28. elvn

    elvn 2[H]4U

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    you couldn't t even fit it all in the camera viewfinder lol.. but whatever works for you. I have one at 2.5' atm though that seems to be similar perceived ppi to a 27" 1440p.

    Since I now have two 43" and a 32" in the middle im going to drop back a bit further in a few days - which is only going to increase the perceived ppi.

    Hoping for one of the upcoming high hz 43" models in the middle by end of 2019 or in 2020 depending.

    SfDZRISh.jpg
     
  29. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Sorry, I reused a picture from that keyboard and mouse thread.

    Here's a better one: 107275_upload_2018-3-4_22-18-40.png

    Old keyboard and amp though...
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
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  30. elvn

    elvn 2[H]4U

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    i like it but id add another desk thing in front of that for a bit more room. personal preference. . Mine are on giant arms though so i can move them around if i ever want to.

    I've been floating back another half foot or foot to 3' on occasion - leaning my headrest and armrest chair back with an xbox controller playing dark souls 3 lately and it feels like a good distance to utilize all of my monitors better. I'm going to install a flat black adjustable height desk surface overlapping my existing one sometime over the next few days to see how i like the extra space and distance. I'll post a pic whenever i get that set up.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  31. Commander Shepard

    Commander Shepard 2[H]4U

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    "Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys!!!"
     
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  32. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    A lot of people say things like that when they see pictures of my setup. In reality though there is plenty of space. I think the sheer size of the thing throws off the scale a little bit.

    I like sitting at normal desktop distances with a large screen. The screen almost completely fills up my peripheral vision and really adds to the immersion.

    Ahh, I'm a 100% Keyboard & Mouse user. Haven't had a controller of any kind since the 80's :p

    image_954f2244-b834-47bc-94d4-88f1878f1b77_300x300.png
     
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  33. elvn

    elvn 2[H]4U

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    Yeah that's still way too close for my liking personally. My nose would almost be touching the character's butt perspective wise (ok slight exaggeration).

    gZC7Z25.jpg


    ------------------------------

    Controllers

    Dark souls 3 is one game that benefits from a gamepad a lot and that's what I've been playing lately. You can play it with keyboard and mouse but you probably won't do as well and without fatigue. You can spin with a gamepad on a point among other things. It's not easy to do that reliably with a keyboard and mouse repeatedly without macroing it. You can circle strafe or roll your mouse with high sensitivity but that's not what I'm talking about. Anyway it's a very challenging game and a gamepad is way more suitable on it for a lot of reasons. Some platformers are also much more applicable to a gamepad. The physics just applies better for some games.

    I used to be a keyboard and mouse snob too. I've been a keyboard and mouse user since doom dialup days and when it's a game that benefits from keyboard and mouse more I'm definitely on keyboard and mouse.

    I use a sideboard half keyboard with mx red mech keys.. with a few custom replaced key assignment sets just for games. I keep it in line with the left arm of my chair. I use the bottom 9 num keys on a naga mouse primarily in line with my right chair arm as well, or a logitech Proteus for simpler games. I even have a usb foot pedal which was a lot of fun when I had a set of boots with a stomp AOE ability in Grim Dawn. lol.

    There's no reason that you can't use a keyboard and mouse at any distance from your pc (other than room size)
    At my couch I have a couchmaster lap desk so that I can use a keyboard and mouse on my tv when I want to.. so I really like keyboard and mouse where it's preferable game wise.

    ---------------------------------


    I'll stop now , really sidetracking thread.

    The prior point referencing my use of a gamepad at what became a further distance was mostly to say that in doing so, I am finding the 3' or so a good (better) distance for a 43" in my experience.

    Can't wait until both the hdr600 and hdr1000 versions of these 43" VAs are out so I can compare features and prices and finally have all the same size and rez monitors in my array.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  34. kasakka

    kasakka [H]ard|Gawd

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    Definitely. I play most non-first person shooters nowadays with the Steam Controller or DualShock 4 if dual analog sticks are needed. Gyro aim has given me the best of both worlds with analog movement and still having accurate aiming. Only issue is some games don't support simultaneous mouse and gamepad.
     
  35. cybereality

    cybereality [H]ardness Supreme

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    I play pretty much only single-player games, and the Xbox controller is the best for me.

    It's kind of a pain using the keyboard when you have to use your pinky to press the control key or do any kind of complex maneuvering (for example, in Mirror's Edge running up a wall, quick turning around, and then jumping to another ledge, much easier with a gamepad).

    The only way I will play with mouse/keyboard is for online shooters (which I don't play much anymore) or for old games that don't have good gamepad support.
     
  36. Dahkoht

    Dahkoht Limp Gawd

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    Awesome setup , thanks for the pic you put here. I currently have three BenQ 3200U 4k monitors (one in middle for gaming , other two hooked to another rig for work/misc ) and was considering taking one to my office and putting a 43" in the middle. Your pic gives me an idea of real life size difference am looking at.

    For 100% purely gaming , 60hz fine as am used to it as long its 4k , dont really care about HDR atm , would you recommend your model for the 43" or another?

    (or anyone else looking for recommendations , nothing bigger than 43 as that's the absolute max would deal with.)
     
  37. exilelrrp

    exilelrrp Limp Gawd

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    lol, but TV's can be any size you choose from 19" -100" the difference here its a monitor, not a TV.
     
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  38. exilelrrp

    exilelrrp Limp Gawd

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    I'm patiently :nailbiting: waiting for the price and hands on YouTube reviews on this Asus 4K 43"
     
  39. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I'm looking forward to it as well. But if it never shows, or if it shows and is too expensive, at least now there is an alternative!

    Maybe with a little luck, having two direct competitors will help make sure the pricing doesn't go too crazy.
     
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  40. sethk

    sethk [H]ard|Gawd

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    Good to know thanks.
    Overall HDMI 2.1 is only bringing the slimmest of improvements over DP 1.4, plus we'd have to wait for new cards. I can see waiting but it's going to be a while for the full card+display HDMI 2.1 chain.
    I think the bigger difference could potentially be that TVs are higher volume and could squeeze in more tech under the HDMI 2.1 umbrella than monitors, e.g. if companies release FALD IPS TVs w/ HDMI 2.1 support (including optional VRR features) and at a reasonable size (e.g. 43") then they'd make great monitors.

    I thought it might be. At close range, I'd take a FALD IPS for monitor use over a VA, but hopefully this is a decent compromise.