The Nintendo Revolution, and Why Wii Were Wrong

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Why would the Wii cater to the hardcore gamer? Theres stiff competition from other consoles and theirs more money outside the hardcore crowd. They released the perfect system for the every(wo)man that doesn't care about the guts of the system and depth of the game.

I'm a PC gamer for my real gaming needs but I bought a Wii for my girlfriend. We play it maybe two or three times a week and all we have is Wii Sports and Mario Kart. Her roommate bought Guitar Hero and Harry Potter (lol) for it too but I've never tried HP. Its perfect to play sparingly.

The issue is not with Nintendo. The issue is that hardcore console gamers play too much. Theres not enough games for the Wii to play like that and they lack the depth to keep people coming back. The Wii is perfect for its audience. Don't get your panties in a bunch because you aren't that audience anymore.

 

[RadXge]

However, I'm glad one of my good friends bought the console so I could sell mine!

I just sold mine... to one of my friend!

 

[PWMK2]

Why would the Wii cater to the hardcore gamer? Theres stiff competition from other consoles and theirs more money outside the hardcore crowd. They released the perfect system for the every(wo)man that doesn't care about the guts of the system and depth of the game.

I'm a PC gamer for my real gaming needs but I bought a Wii for my girlfriend. We play it maybe two or three times a week and all we have is Wii Sports and Mario Kart. Her roommate bought Guitar Hero and Harry Potter (lol) for it too but I've never tried HP. Its perfect to play sparingly.

The issue is not with Nintendo. The issue is that hardcore console gamers play too much. Theres not enough games for the Wii to play like that and they lack the depth to keep people coming back. The Wii is perfect for its audience. Don't get your panties in a bunch because you aren't that audience anymore.

Here's the problem:

Nintendo has released a system that, basically, I feel is going to outwit itself. Yes, it is great and everyone who doesn't care about video games is buying it, yadda yadda yadda... but what about game attachment rate? How many people are actually buying games for it, and how many people are using it simply as their Wii Sports player? When you compare the sales of PS3 and Xbox 360 games, only a handful of Wii games are really being sold at all, and they almost all have the name Nintendo on the front. Granted, they sell really well. But if Nintendo only has, say, two or three of these really great selling games a year for the entire console, then they're going to have problems in the long-run. A poster above related the success of the Wii to the Atari with its shovelware back in the early 80s and I'm finding myself start to agree. Everyone had an Atari. Within 5 years, though, Atari was finished.

You're right, the Wii is not catered to the hardcore gamer. It is catered to the non-gamer; the gamer who does not play video games. Does this sound like a contradiction? Well, yes, basically. It is. And Nintendo will see what that philosophy has bought them as people buy games less and less for it and stick with what they already had.

When it's time to upgrade, how many of the Wii's target audience are going to actually upgrade? Well, probably not a whole lot. The group which actually sticks with a console line through upgrades will, invariably, also be the same demographic which Nintendo is no longer really making games for: the people who grew up with great Zelda and Metroid games. The reason why Nintendo E3's conference was so poor was that the only big-name game they even had at the show was a new version of Animal Crossing, which is still more or less the same as a game that they released for Nintendo 64 back in 2000.

Now, I know that big-name games aren't what makes a console float. But they are what lets a console survive in the long-run. Instead of buying new Nintendo games, people are going to be playing their Wii Sports and their Wii Fit. Over and over. And maybe buying one of those shovelware games from time to time. But when the Wii 2 comes out? It won't be an upgrade unless they put in features that only the demographic that they are not targeting anymore is looking for.

 

[domoMKIV]

The wife and I picked up house of the dead 2/3 and a pair of perfect shots, it was a blast playing both of them to the end.
Wii Sports is a hit in this household because it has family appeal for us and our kids.
Wii Fit is next on the list.
That's about all that has interest around here though.

I am waiting for the PS3 price drop and RE5, then the Wii will probably get even less use. We bought Rock Band for the Wii when it came out but then got it home and decided to return it and wait for our PS3 purchase.

Am I sorry I bought a Wii? Nope. It is still enjoyable.

 

[Kuyt]

I don't understand the shovelware comments. Don't you remember the PS2? That had more shitty games than anything, that's what happens when you're the most popular console.

Are you serious?

Obviously you never had a PS2.

Right off the bat, FFX, Kingdom Hearts, Suikoden III, Grandia II, Katamari Damacy, MGS2, MGS3, Silent Hill 2, SSX Tricky, SSX 3, GTA 3, GTA: VC, GT 3, Beyond Good and Evil, Ratchet and Clank.

I think you need to seek professional help.

 

[inotocracy]

^ Hes saying the PS2 had a lot of shovelware. No one is arguing that the PS2 did have great games, but the ratio of good games to crap is pretty low.

 

[Lost!]

Wont buy Xbox360 till i have confirmation that the new chips in the channel don't push out 3Jigawatts of heat, and I wont buy the PS3 because every almost every game I expressed interest in for that console turned into a 3/5 from a 5/5 way too quickly.

@ Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo, I really do want to give you my money, I really do! First one to fix the problems gets $600 from me

The current 360s use less wattage than the PS3 I think. Either way the 60GB will prolly be the end of RROD et al. And if the rumoured pricecuts are true, you can't go wrong with $300...

Back on topic then. Nintendo has succeeded in making a console that I spit on.


This is a triumph

 

[RadXge]

Wii is the most overrated console of all time.
The remote is cool but the hardware sucks big time.
There are a few interesting games but the list is very short.

Maybe good games will come. Maybe.

 

[Technoob]

The current 360s use less wattage than the PS3 I think. Either way the 60GB will prolly be the end of RROD et al.

there's no difference between the 60 and the newer 20s aside from the hard drive, so it's not going to do away with RR in any way that it wasn't already dealt with.

 

[pandora's box]

parents bought a wii last week. they got a bundle with wii sports, wii play, super smash brothers brawl and another controller. they like wii sports and wii play and have no interest in brawl. i had some friends over last night for some gaming. went out bought another controller and had a blast playing wii sports and wii play. brawl was just amazing. but we all could only play it for so long. something about it prevented us from doing a long gaming session on it. spent about 3 hours playing the wii and a good 10-12 playing the 360. wii is good for the casual gamer and parties but not for the hard core gamer.

i did go out and buy metroid prime 3 for the wii. it was the one game i really wanted to play on the system but wasnt willing to buy a whole system just for one game.

 

[Belgain Roffles]

there's no difference between the 60 and the newer 20s aside from the hard drive, so it's not going to do away with RR in any way that it wasn't already dealt with.

The 60s have the memory located in a different area than before, which was supposedly the last remaining heat buildup area causing RRoD. So yes, they're different.

 

[staticz]

I got in on the craze and bought a Wii. I actually walked into my Wal-Mart at about 7pm and they had about 15. I played with it for a few months waiting for something better to come out.....never did so I cashed out on e-bay. I made about $150 so no big deal.

As far as getting another one. It is not going to happen.

 

[Blackstone]

Who buys a Nintendo console and expects to play anything other than first party titles? It is Nintendo--I buy it for Zelda, Mario, and Metroid--period. Every once in a while I get a surprise like Resident Evil 4, but generally Nintendo consoles are nostalgia machines.

Does it really matter if in between Zelda, Mario, and Metroid games Nintendo wants to sell some shovelware? This is business as usual for Nintendo--the only difference is they found something they can sell to everyone else in the meantime.

But considering that Super Mario Galaxy was hardcore Mario to the point where there was stuff straight out of Super Mario 3 from 1989 (flying airships anyone), I'm not really worried about them. Zelda and Metroid are due for massive overhauls and it is going to take long time.

There is a reason why Wii sports looks so bland and that is because they want to make it and get it out the door and fast. Meanwhile, the Mario and Zelda development teams are much, much larger and work on more long term projects. There is no reason why they can't do both casual and hardcore and I think they will prove that they can. They've been doing pretty well so far...Mario Galaxy was a trip! It is hard to complain about Nintendo since they easily turned in the best Mario since Super Mario World, in my opinion.

And I thought Twilight Princess was just awesome, and so did about 90% of all reviewers on the planet. That game came out in 2006, and here we are in 2008 and we expect another already? Those games take YEARS to make.

We waited 8 years from Super Metroid to Metroid Prime. I'd rather play another great Metroid in 8 years than a mediocre sequel tomorrow.

I just hope they don't give into all the whining and decide to shove a Zelda out the door.

 

[PWMK2]

Who buys a Nintendo console and expects to play anything other than first party titles? It is Nintendo--I buy it for Zelda, Mario, and Metroid--period. Every once in a while I get a surprise like Resident Evil 4, but generally Nintendo consoles are nostalgia machines.

Does it really matter if in between Zelda, Mario, and Metroid games Nintendo wants to sell some shovelware? This is business as usual for Nintendo--the only difference is they found something they can sell to everyone else in the meantime.

But considering that Super Mario Galaxy was hardcore Mario to the point where there was stuff straight out of Super Mario 3 from 1989 (flying airships anyone), I'm not really worried about them. Zelda and Metroid are due for massive overhauls and it is going to take long time.

There is a reason why Wii sports looks so bland and that is because they want to make it and get it out the door and fast. Meanwhile, the Mario and Zelda development teams are much, much larger and work on more long term projects. There is no reason why they can't do both casual and hardcore and I think they will prove that they can. They've been doing pretty well so far...Mario Galaxy was a trip! It is hard to complain about Nintendo since they easily turned in the best Mario since Super Mario World, in my opinion.

And I thought Twilight Princess was just awesome, and so did about 90% of all reviewers on the planet. That game came out in 2006, and here we are in 2008 and we expect another already? Those games take YEARS to make.

We waited 8 years from Super Metroid to Metroid Prime. I'd rather play another great Metroid in 8 years than a mediocre sequel tomorrow.

I just hope they don't give into all the whining and decide to shove a Zelda out the door.

This is the problem: we could say all that you said a year ago. However, now we can't.

Everyone expected Nintendo to come out with a new Mario / Zelda / Metroid title of some kind. They didn't. They didn't even announce anything substantial. They just showed off the new Animal Crossing.

Zelda and Metroid Prime and Mario Galaxy were great. As of right now, though, there are no more big Nintendo titles coming out for the Wii. That is what is scary.

 

[Technoob]

The 60s have the memory located in a different area than before, which was supposedly the last remaining heat buildup area causing RRoD. So yes, they're different.

the memory has never been the problem causing RR, it's been the gpu seating and craptacular heatsink connections.

 

[Technoob]

They just showed off the same exact Animal Crossing that's been released 4 times already.

fixed

 

[Shinryu]

My friend has a Wii, Mario Kart is really good fun with mates and smash is great single and multiplayer, but all the good Wii titles are first party and I can see the console repeating itself over again just like the nintendo 64 and GC.

Yes they make great first party titles like Zelda and Mario, but everytime they release them, I can still give you a slew of games that came out in a shorter time and was more enjoyable (for me at least).

The Wii is a success in terms of making money, in terms of it being a good gaming machine, not really.

 

[future145]

nintendo might be selling alot this round of consoles but when its time to release a new one they will have to go back to targeting the hardcore crowd. Casuals wont want to spend another $250 for something they already have and that still works.

lets take a look at the majority of the computers non-tech people buy. They stick with the computer til its way to slow or infected with so much spyware that it barely functions. at that point they buy a new one. now with the wii, it cant get too slow or infected with spyware. casuals will see no point in upgrading to the next generation of systems. they are not used getting a new system every few years.

 

[Bigbacon]

I think of the Wii as more of a DS for the TV. I enjoy the lighter games like WarioWare and Rayman Raging Rabbids. Mainly the games that just have small, quick and fun little things to do. The bigger games like Metroid I lost interest in pretty quick, the Wii just doesn't seem made for large, epic things. Yes, Wii sports still get the most play out of all the games I own. No more heros was pretty good, but again, I never finished it.

I never played Zelda, I lost all interest in zelda games after the first N64 one, that water level left me hating it.

Reason I play my DS way more is because the games are usually simplier and much more fun than the grand games that take forever to play.

 

[tweak89]

Once again..."hardcore" gamers bash a console that frankly, wasn't targeted to them. Then, they act shocked when they discover they don't enjoy it. Sheesh

Don't know what games they played or didn't but I've found something in just about every genre to enjoy (FPS-Metroid/MOH: Heroes, Racing-Mario Kart/Excite Truck, Adventure-Zack and Wiki and of course games like RE:4 (yeah, it's a port, but the refined controls made it even better), No More Heroes and Super Mario Galaxy give you a much more broad cross section of games than the 360/PS3 (I mean really, how many FPS's does the world need?).

In fact, the only mini-game type of game I have for it is Wii Sports. II don't recall another console for which I purchased 14 games (none of them them $20 shovelware titles) in it's initial year like I have with the Wii. I my year of owning a 360, I bought 4 games.

I was certainly one of the early naysayers when they officially named it the Wii and showed the controllers. But, I was way wrong.

I may not be "hardcore", but I love gaming. And whatever category I fall into for enjoying Nintendo's console...well, that's fine with me!

 

[Vengance_01]

The concept was great, the lack of solid games killed it for me. I sold mine months ago.

 

[Chombo]

How many gamers consider themselves "hardcore" gamers because they played Halo and prefer FPS?

I don't own a Wii, but several of my friends do. I get the impression they never get turned on if there's not someone visiting; we'll have a few drinks and play Rock Band or Wii Sports on it for a bit, maybe Smash Bros., then turn it back off and do something else.

Thats all I use my GC for and thats all I would use a Wii for, and I am perfectly fine with that. I use it to play Mario party and Smash brothers. Anything else goes to my PC.

Last time I looked at the attach rate numbers for the Wii, they were in last place. Meaning, people buy the console, but not games.

Here's the problem:

Nintendo has released a system that, basically, I feel is going to outwit itself. Yes, it is great and everyone who doesn't care about video games is buying it, yadda yadda yadda... but what about game attachment rate?

Thats the beauty of it. They don't need to sell games to make money. They make boatloads off the console, any games sold in addition is just extra.

Who buys a Nintendo console and expects to play anything other than first party titles? It is Nintendo--I buy it for Zelda, Mario, and Metroid--period. Every once in a while I get a surprise like Resident Evil 4, but generally Nintendo consoles are nostalgia machines.

QFT. I don't see how people think that Nintendo has really put out many great third party titles in the past 15 years. Nintento never really was hardcore.

 

[PWMK2]

How many gamers consider themselves "hardcore" gamers because they played Halo and prefer FPS?

That's not the point. "Hardcore" gamers aren't even necessarily FPS players, and the Wii isn't targeting even "non-hardcore" gamers. It is targeting non-gamers in general. People who don't play video games.

It's like targeting books to nonreaders. It makes no sense, and all you end up with is crap.

Thats all I use my GC for and thats all I would use a Wii for, and I am perfectly fine with that. I use it to play Mario party and Smash brothers. Anything else goes to my PC.

Why buy a console to only have it played that sparingly?

Thats the beauty of it. They don't need to sell games to make money. They make boatloads off the console, any games sold in addition is just extra.

I never said that model wouldn't make Nintendo money now. However, it is screwing up other things: it is screwing third-party developers now, and it is screwing Nintendo in the future. When the Wii 2 (or whatever it will be called) comes out, do you think everyone will be clamoring for a Wii 2? They will already have a Wii. The only people who really care about upgrades are the exact demographic they are not targeting. That is a very dooming sales strategy and it's basically what killed Atari.

QFT. I don't see how people think that Nintendo has really put out many great third party titles in the past 15 years. Nintento never really was hardcore.

The problem is that we can't really expect great any more good first-party titles either.

The problem is not hardcore vs. non-hardcore, the problem is Nintendo vs. Nintendo. The Nintendo Wii is starting to turn into something very non-Nintendo. Where were Zelda, Mario, Star Fox, or Metroid at E3? All we got was Animal Crossing. Are you kidding me? Animal Crossing. I mean, it'll probably be better than Animal Crossing on the gamecube, but judging from what I've read of it, this is still basically the same N64 game released 8 years ago. 8 years ago. And that's all we have coming to the Wii from Nintendo right now.

And when you say "Nintendo never really was hardcore..." LOL! It's not about "hardcore" or not "hardcore" (MS and Sony aren't solely targeting "hardcore" gamers either, whatever that indeed means), it's about good games or bad games. There are signifcantly more good games on the 360 and PS3 than Wii. That's what is going on here, and it's a marked shift away from previous Nintendo consoles, which had plenty of good games.

 

[stevedave]

I hate HATE the term Hardcore gamer as if improved graphics makes the games or gamers any more hardcore.

 

[tweak89]

I hate HATE the term Hardcore gamer as if improved graphics makes the games or gamers any more hardcore.

QFT!!!

Also, how many re-treaded franchises appear on Sony/Microsoft consoles? Plenty. But, as they are the "superior" consoles I guess it doesn't count against them like it does Nintendo.

I guess when the next Halo comes out it will make Microsoft lame since they must be out of ideas!! Along that same line do the new 360 Mii...oops...avatars make it a weaker console, since they are obviously pandering to people outside their core audience?

 

[Technoob]

QFT!!!

Also, how many re-treaded franchises appear on Sony/Microsoft consoles? Plenty. But, as they are the "superior" consoles I guess it doesn't count against them like it does Nintendo.

I guess when the next Halo comes out it will make Microsoft lame since they must be out of ideas!! Along that same line do the new 360 Mii...oops...avatars make it a weaker console, since they are obviously pandering to people outside their core audience?

It's not about graphics only, look at a two year old 360 game dead rising, and then how shitty and scaled back it will be on the wii....10 zombies on screen at a time vs hundreds. The Wii can't do as much as other consoles, that's why many people don't care for it.

 

[Draax]

I have Metroid, Mario Kart, Mario Galaxy, but the wii just sits there unused now. I wish there were more great games for it.

Right now my 360 is taking most of time, even more so then my PC. Lost Odyssey, Braid, Penny Arcade, and I can't wait for bionic commando : rearmed to be released. Soon I'll be able to install games to the HD, and the upcoming lineup is stellar.

the memory has never been the problem causing RR, it's been the gpu seating and craptacular heatsink connections.

Nope it was the Xclamps.

 

[lazybum131]

Right off the bat, FFX, Kingdom Hearts, Suikoden III, Grandia II, Katamari Damacy, MGS2, MGS3, Silent Hill 2, SSX Tricky, SSX 3, GTA 3, GTA: VC, GT 3, Beyond Good and Evil, Ratchet and Clank.

Right off the bat huh? You have one twisted memory.

Months from PS2 North American launch till release of above games in NA:
13, 22, 23, 14, 46, 12, 48, 10, 12, 35, 11, 23, 8, 36, 24.

Keep in mind PS2 launched in Japan eight months earlier than NA, giving developers even more time. Then don't forget that PS2 was the first console to launch that generation that lasted until the next. And it was coming off of the very successful PS1 that had already won over third-parties.

The Wii has only been out for 21 months, eight of the above PS2 games wouldn't have been released yet (more if you start from Japanese launch). It launched a year after the 360. No third-party expected it lead this gen and had placed their bets on the HD consoles. HD development is more time consuming and resource intensive leaving even less resources to be put into Wii, and making publishers and developers less flexible. It's no wonder that for the most part third-party games are poor quality this early into Wii's life.

 

[Technoob]

Nope it was the Xclamps.

I said "gpu seating and craptacular heatsink connections"...what do you think the xclamps do?

Removing the Heatsinks from the Motherboard

Removing the heatsinks from the GPU and the CPU will require a great deal of patience as to avoid damaging the motherboard. Flip over the Xbox 360's motherboard. You will see two X clamps grasping the ends of the screws that hold the heatsinks into place. Without removing the X clamps, you cannot remove the heatsinks. Microsoft has done a clever job in terms of securing the unit from prying eyes and removing the heatsinks from the Xbox 360 can be a trick for a lot of people.

 

[PWMK2]

QFT!!!

Also, how many re-treaded franchises appear on Sony/Microsoft consoles? Plenty. But, as they are the "superior" consoles I guess it doesn't count against them like it does Nintendo.

I guess when the next Halo comes out it will make Microsoft lame since they must be out of ideas!! Along that same line do the new 360 Mii...oops...avatars make it a weaker console, since they are obviously pandering to people outside their core audience?

MS isn't coming out with another Halo game, unless you think Halo Wars is like the past three. And just because you don't like Halo doesn't mean others don't think it's good. The difference is that NOBODY thinks the shovelware coming out for the wii is good. We're not saying the Wii has a problem with retreaded franchises. It has a problem with getting franchises at all.

 

[Blackstone]

That's not the point. "Hardcore" gamers aren't even necessarily FPS players, and the Wii isn't targeting even "non-hardcore" gamers. It is targeting non-gamers in general. People who don't play video games.

The problem is that we can't really expect great any more good first-party titles either.

Where were Zelda, Mario, Star Fox, or Metroid at E3? All we got was Animal Crossing. Are you kidding me? Animal Crossing.

This is a bunch of nonsensical whining. We just got Mario Galaxy. We just got Metroid Prime 3, and really we got a damn good entry in the Zelda series when the system launched. Not to mention Smash Brothers and Mario Kart. It is one thing to be disappointed, it is another thing to be unreasonable. Those games takes years to develop. They could have been working on a Zelda for years a threw what they had in the garbage because it didn't turn out the way they wanted. Zelda usually involves some pretty whacked out creative stuff--can you imagine having to dream that stuff up?

They announce those games when they have something to announce. They already confirmed there will be new entries in those series.

The E3 presentation was lame, but lets be real here. You judge a system by the quality of the games at the time that system is being retired--not like two years after launch. Nintendo has always been a company with crazy gimmicky hardware ideas (Robots, Powergloves, Virtual Boys, Light Guns and Waggle Controllers) but they are also one of the best software developers in the industry and that is because they don't pull their software out of the oven half baked. If they want to sling fries and burgers while the main courses are cooking more power to them. If anything it takes the pressure off the core franchise teams and allows them to take it slow and think up something new for those series that isn't just more of the same.

And as for third parties--the Wii is a capable system, it is not HD but it is capable. It has a unique control scheme. If third party developers can't step up and take advantage of what is there, that is not Nintendo's fault. The problem is that because the system is lacking in raw computing power, developers actually have to sell their games on pure gameplay, art style, and concept and there aren't many who can step up to that.

 

[Draax]

I said "gpu seating and craptacular heatsink connections"...what do you think the xclamps do?

Removing the Heatsinks from the Motherboard

Removing the heatsinks from the GPU and the CPU will require a great deal of patience as to avoid damaging the motherboard. Flip over the Xbox 360's motherboard. You will see two X clamps grasping the ends of the screws that hold the heatsinks into place. Without removing the X clamps, you cannot remove the heatsinks. Microsoft has done a clever job in terms of securing the unit from prying eyes and removing the heatsinks from the Xbox 360 can be a trick for a lot of people.

The Xclamps do not evenly distribute pressure, and push down on the back of the CPU and GPU chips. When the 360 gets hot, the motherboard flexes. The combination of that and the Xclamps pressing down on the chips causes the cheap, lead free, bga solder connections underneath the chips to break.

 

[rapperwith1p]

I wasn't too fond of Wii sports after a week and RE4 was awesome but not very replayable. So I turned around and took advantage of the hype and traded it to someone for a 360 elite + some goodies.

 

[Technoob]

The Xclamps do not evenly distribute pressure, and push down on the back of the CPU and GPU chips. When the 360 gets hot, the motherboard flexes. The combination of that and the Xclamps pressing down on the chips causes the cheap, lead free, bga solder connections underneath the chips to break.

are you going to keep repeating what I already said, over and over?

 

[Chombo]

That's not the point. "Hardcore" gamers aren't even necessarily FPS players, and the Wii isn't targeting even "non-hardcore" gamers. It is targeting non-gamers in general. People who don't play video games.

It's like targeting books to nonreaders. It makes no sense, and all you end up with is crap..

I kind of see where you're going with that, however gamers and non-gamers alike have bought the Wii. Broadening your customer base and turning non-gamers into gamers is good for their business. Good for gamers in general, thats a different story...

Why buy a console to only have it played that sparingly?

Cuz it cost me $99, with two controllers. At that price if I play it twice a week, for two hours, for 4 years its worth it.

I never said that model wouldn't make Nintendo money now. However, it is screwing up other things: it is screwing third-party developers now, and it is screwing Nintendo in the future. When the Wii 2 (or whatever it will be called) comes out, do you think everyone will be clamoring for a Wii 2? They will already have a Wii. The only people who really care about upgrades are the exact demographic they are not targeting. That is a very dooming sales strategy and it's basically what killed Atari.

IMHO I wouldn't buy a Wii if SSBB and Mario Party 8 were on GC. But they aren't, so I will eventually buy the Wii just to play those games every so often with my family.

The problem is that we can't really expect great any more good first-party titles either.

The problem is not hardcore vs. non-hardcore, the problem is Nintendo vs. Nintendo. The Nintendo Wii is starting to turn into something very non-Nintendo. Where were Zelda, Mario, Star Fox, or Metroid at E3? All we got was Animal Crossing. Are you kidding me? Animal Crossing. I mean, it'll probably be better than Animal Crossing on the gamecube, but judging from what I've read of it, this is still basically the same N64 game released 8 years ago. 8 years ago. And that's all we have coming to the Wii from Nintendo right now.

And when you say "Nintendo never really was hardcore..." LOL! It's not about "hardcore" or not "hardcore" (MS and Sony aren't solely targeting "hardcore" gamers either, whatever that indeed means), it's about good games or bad games. There are signifcantly more good games on the 360 and PS3 than Wii. That's what is going on here, and it's a marked shift away from previous Nintendo consoles, which had plenty of good games.

You lost me here. We already have Zelda, Mario, Metroid for Wii. I would like to see a new Fox title though. And too be honest I can't think of more than a handful of titles that I would have wanted on a Nintendo console since SNES (which I still play).

Honestly, I really do think most of the complaining about the Wii has to do with two things. Graphics and how "hardcore" the games are. Which I find ironic because so often we see graphics != gameplay complaints, and there is never a good definition of hardcore anywhere. When I think hardcore + console, I think of a college fraternity playing Halo. But thats just me.

 

[tweak89]

MS isn't coming out with another Halo game, unless you think Halo Wars is like the past three. And just because you don't like Halo doesn't mean others don't think it's good. The difference is that NOBODY thinks the shovelware coming out for the wii is good. We're not saying the Wii has a problem with retreaded franchises. It has a problem with getting franchises at all.

Not sure how you derive that I don't like Halo, enjoyed the hell out of 1 and 2 on my Xbox (didn't really care for 3's single player). Point is, Halo has been marched out 3 times and has become identified with Microsoft and the Xbox. Halo wars is not that much different than other RTS's, but it has been branded with the Halo Identity (like Mario____). You know they'll find ways to milk that brand.Some were lamenting that all Nintendo has done is bring out the usual suspects for very console. True. But also true of Sony and to a lesser extent Microsoft (due to their youth within the industry).

Shovelware...c'mon, that becomes a problem for any system in time. How many of you rushed out and bought those BK games??

I guess I just don't understand why many of the "hardcore" gamers immediately like to find ways to minimize the wild success of the Wii. Seems to me a true hardcore game players would enjoy games on any system regardless of what's under the hood.

I don't consider my self a fanboy of any particular console (the Wii is my first Nintendo console EVER)so maybe that's why I don't get all the cross console bashing that goes on. I've got a PS2, but no desire for a PS3, had a 360....but too many RROD problems for me to hold onto it, yet I loved my Xbox.

 

[GreenMonkey]

Once again..."hardcore" gamers bash a console that frankly, wasn't targeted to them. Then, they act shocked when they discover they don't enjoy it. Sheesh

Don't know what games they played or didn't but I've found something in just about every genre to enjoy (FPS-Metroid/MOH: Heroes, Racing-Mario Kart/Excite Truck, Adventure-Zack and Wiki and of course games like RE:4 (yeah, it's a port, but the refined controls made it even better), No More Heroes and Super Mario Galaxy give you a much more broad cross section of games than the 360/PS3 (I mean really, how many FPS's does the world need?).

No kidding.

I define hardcore gamers as the folks that complain there aren't enough good games on the system. Maybe a gamer like I used to be about 4-8 years ago...someone with tons of time to blow through games.

Mario Galaxy: wife bought it, I haven't played it for more than a half hour
Smash Bros: tons of characters remain unlocked
Mario Kart: Haven't even unlocked all of the maps
Zelda TP: bought AT launch. On launch morning (brrr it was cold). I played about 15 hours in, and got distracted by playing too much Gears on my 360 online, and then Devil May Cry 4, and Bioshock. I'll go back to it, though. It's in my backlog along with Shadow of the Colossus, Dragon Quest 8 (and I'm a DQ fanboy), etc.

Here's my game completion list for the year so far:

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (DS) ... started this one like a couple of years ago. Finally did the last chapter.
Halo 3 on Heroic (started last year)
Devil May Cry 4 (360)- Devil Hunter (hard) mode
Actraiser (SNES) via PSP emulator


So you see, I'm not too concerned about a draught of good games. Even single player games. In my mind, I've got Mario, Zelda, and eventually Metroid and RE4 to play, and a few more games like Fire Emblem that look pretty cool.

The people with a problem are the "hardcore" who play through a ton of games and get bored. You know what, you're right. There's not enough serious good single player games on the Wii to keep you busy. But that's to be expected.

I'm a parent of an 11mo old and a 2.5yr old and I work 40+ hours and my wife goes to grad school. My gaming time is pretty limited, probably 15 hours a week tops and that's just because I sacrifice sleep to have some fun. There's enough good single player content and multiplayer fun to keep the average or busy person having fun without running out of games.

The Wii will never have enough games to keep the hardcore busy because that's not its real focus. And the hardcore that loves online games, well, Nintendo didn't choose to make a pricey device with enough hardware balls to support VOIP chat and a dashboard and an always-available friends list and all of that.

 

[Draax]

are you going to keep repeating what I already said, over and over?

lol ok ...

 

[Dreaz]

Wii seems to not be played much when you play games by yourself. But usually anyone in a community living environment (roommates, gneerational family homes, etc) the Wii outshines the other consoles by far.

If you like to play games for parties and get togethers, then the Wii is the thing to get. If you like sitting at home alone with a headset on pwning noobs or playing any type of single player action and immersion, the other two systems will suite your needs more.

The Wii seems to brace community while the other two systems seem to stifle it.

 

[Blackstone]

Well I ONLY play with my Wii in private. I don't want anyone watching me waggle that thing.