The next NCASE project: a Steam Machine-style case (indeterminate)

[killerfromsky]

I prefer the logo on the stand.
I also like the stripes edz added, but then again I also love the clean and plain front.
Perhaps you could integrate those stripes with the odd slot?


Front USB can be usefull for a lrpc, I don't think headphone plugs are.
Probably like power switch on front more then hidden. Perhaps at the top it could be integrated with the vents?

Loving the odd support so far.

 

[WiSK]

I also can't ignore that fact that M1 orders were more than two to one in favor of an ODD slot.

Maybe a lot of the people with enough disposable income for a custom case have children, and having children means you automatically have 100 DVDs of Disney and Dora and My Little Pony and whatever.

For the 20 somethings who think DVDs are dying. You can explain to a three-year-old how to put a disc in a machine, but you can't easily explain to them how to download films because they can't read properly or type or control a mouse until they are older. This is why people want cases with a slot for optical discs.

 

[backfeed]

So, about ODD support.

Sacrificing gpu space in a Steam Machine-style case just to allow ODD support, transforms it into an HTPC case. I'm sad to see this.

The proposed new design with the ODD slot looks ok, horizontally. Just like any HTPC.

Vertically positioned, the slot just looks off. Not nearly as bad as the Silverstone FT03-Mini, but in the same category. Seeing as I'd be having my case "upside down" when positioned vertically, it would look even worse, with the ODD slot at the bottom.

The new no-ODD version looks worse than the original design.

For me, it's a lose/lose situation.

Maybe a lot of the people with enough disposable income for a custom case have children, and having children means you automatically have 100 DVDs of Disney and Dora and My Little Pony and whatever.

For the 20 somethings who think DVDs are dying. You can explain to a three-year-old how to put a disc in a machine, but you can't easily explain to them how to download films because they can't read properly or type or control a mouse until they are older. This is why people want cases with a slot for optical discs.

If you have kids and enough disposable income for a custom case, then you also have enough disposable income for a regular good old dvd or bluray player, which is most likely a LOT simpler to use for a kid. Put in the disc and it starts playing. Press the eject button and it comes out. I fail to see how a Steam Machine, acting as an HTPC on the side, would be simpler to use for kids?

If it's only an HTPC you want, then there's plenty of other well suited good looking cases already available. Streacom have several.

 

[backfeed]

Nice suggestion, I vote on this one!

 

[zalbard]

I also quite like AFD's design!

But I am a bit disappointed by the lack of 3.5" drive support - I believe it is a nice option for a media-centered PC (having 4-8TB of space for movies is nice). I would welcome 1x3.5" + 1x2.5" option (with 3.5" mount potentially accepting a 2.5" drive).

I don't care at all about ODD - most stuff can be downloaded or streamed. I haven't used an ODD for at least 6 years.

I suppose we could potentially offer two versions of the case - the difference being the inclusion of the stand or holes for the feet on the side panel. The side panels are removable much like the M1, so swapping them out isn't a major issue either.

Or you could do without using any screws at all.

Place a couple of strong magnets into the stand - their weight will add some stability, and you will be able to attach and detach it easily.

You could also use magnets for case feet.

Although I suspect you may want to place small magnets inside the chassis as well so feet and stand do not slide.

 

[Urelure]

So, about ODD support. I'm sympathetic to those for whom it's a desired, or even needed feature, so I thought I ought to at least make an honest effort at a solution. I also can't ignore that fact that M1 orders were more than two to one in favor of an ODD slot.

So here's what I did: the power button and front USB got moved over out in front of the GPU, while a slim ODD occupies that area + the first 2.5" mount. A 2.5" on top of the ODD might still be possible. The major con is that maximum GPU length is reduced somewhat, to about 10.8", maybe 11". There's also a bit less room for cables with an ODD installed, naturally. Keep in mind there are no changes to the dimensions of the case.

Aesthetics are subjective, so I'll let you decide if the change is for better or worse:

I actually think you pulled it off.

I am in th no ODD camp. I do think the power button/usb/logo looked better further towards the top than the middle. I do, however, think honetly think that if you are willing to consider ODD for those who want it, a few tradeoffs would be ok.

My biggest concern is the GPU length. We don't know what is going to happen with GPU sizes two/three generations down the road, and since this setup ia able to power such high end hardware, and the airflow for GPU probably will be great here, it would be a shame to rule out "say a GTX 990" due to the ODD. Is the position of the front I/O just down to where holes are int the front panel? Would it be possible if both ODD and no ODD panel is offered to still keep the position from the original render on the front I/O for the no ODD version so that we who opt for it don't have to do the GPU legth tradeoff?

Also. I agree with the new logo placement not being optimal. In my opinion that should go back to its original position as well. I think logo's are supposed to stand out, even uif they are subtile like yours.

Edit: I do not agree with the grooves.

 

[Phuncz]

It's also important to remember that any additional ports mean extra cables in the case, which is already very tight. That's part of the reason I dropped front audio.

I hope you can source more flexible USB 3.0 cables because I'd be much happier with have 5 frontpanel audio cables to deal with than the very stiff USB 3.0 one that came with the Ncase M1. I can live with it in the M1 (thanks to zip-ties), but it might become a problem in this case because the USB 3.0 header has very little friction so it can become loose easily.

If you have kids and enough disposable income for a custom case, then you also have enough disposable income for a regular good old dvd or bluray player, which is most likely a LOT simpler to use for a kid. Put in the disc and it starts playing. Press the eject button and it comes out. I fail to see how a Steam Machine, acting as an HTPC on the side, would be simpler to use for kids?

If it's only an HTPC you want, then there's plenty of other well suited good looking cases already available. Streacom have several.

I agree with backfeed, too many people are seeing this case as an HTPC case that's just very tightly packed, but doesn't have space for a ODD, 3,5" HDD's or watercooling. It seems people's suggestions are just pushing this case into ML07 territory WHICH ALREADY SUPPORTS ALL OF THESE THINGS. So people, if you want a HTPC case, go to amazon.com are any other store in your country and save yourself a lot of money.

 

[ellroy80]

Necere, the new front looks good with the ODD slot. However, not so good without the ODD slot but with the "new" power button and USB placement, IMO.

I agree with others about DVDs and kids - surely a standalone player is A LOT easier than a HTPC for them to operate.

 

[zalbard]

It's also important to remember that any additional ports mean extra cables in the case, which is already very tight. That's part of the reason I dropped front audio.

I think it's a reasonable trade-off.

Front panel audio always has interference, which makes it useless for people who are interested in high-quality sound.

And cables sticking out at the front would look ugly. So I would prefer to have it removed.

 

[octagoncow]

I'm in the no ODD camp, but I think that the solution that Necere came up with is a reasonable compromise since the overall case size remains the same. I don't like how the front panel looks without the ODD slot though. With the ODD slot it makes sense for the power button to be centered on the case; but to me it looks silly when it doesn't have that slot.

I also agree that the gap between the power button and USB ports doesn't look as good.

What's currently the maximum width for a graphics card by the way?

 

[Phuncz]

I think it's a reasonable trade-off.

Front panel audio always has interference, which makes it useless for people who are interested in high-quality sound.

And cables sticking out at the front would look ugly. So I would prefer to have it removed.

In my opinion that's not a valid argument since people concerned about high-quality sound wouldn't use the onboard sound but use an external DAC with a-sync USB support.
I have experience with an ALC1150 chipset with a TI NE5532 headphone amp over the front-panel audio used with a Sennheiser HD555. It was crystal-clear without any interference. It may be a problem with low-end wiring and connectors, but the ones the Ncase M1 has doesn't.

 

[EdZ]

Wild idea: An outboard chassis for a DVD drive and 3.5" HDDs.
A flat-fronted box of the same width and depth as the case could sit on top or underneath (or to either side if vertical) unobtrusively with thick enough feet to allow for good airflow. It would require an open slot in the rear to allow power and SATA cables to pass between chassis though.
Not a cheap prospect given it's essentially a whole other case project in addition to the main case, but with little/no cooling required it could be machined relatively simply (mounting for ODD and HDD just being punched holes in the base to mate with rubber grommets).

 

[zalbard]

In my opinion that's not a valid argument since people concerned about high-quality sound wouldn't use the onboard sound but use an external DAC

That's true.

However I believe the aesthetics (extra cables sticking out at the front) point is still valid.

 

[backfeed]

Wild idea: An outboard chassis for a DVD drive and 3.5" HDDs.
A flat-fronted box of the same width and depth as the case could sit on top or underneath (or to either side if vertical) unobtrusively with thick enough feet to allow for good airflow. It would require an open slot in the rear to allow power and SATA cables to pass between chassis though.
Not a cheap prospect given it's essentially a whole other case project in addition to the main case, but with little/no cooling required it could be machined relatively simply (mounting for ODD and HDD just being punched holes in the base to mate with rubber grommets).

Anything that keeps 5,25" and 3,5" drives out of this case is a great idea, thumbs up!

Passing the power + data cables through will probably be problematic though. But not impossible.

Could have its own controller and power supply, and connect to the main case via usb 3.0 also. Though quite a bit more complicated and expensive.

 

[Geoffrey4283]

BTW: I have an ODD-slot in my Ncase M1 because I was not sure at that time that I would need an ODD or not. But I never used it. I can guess there are plenty of people that got a ODD-drive and also haven't used more than a couple of times in the last year.

Wanted to second this. When buying my M1, the biggest decision for me was whether or not to opt for the additional no-ODD top panel, when I wasn't sure whether or not I would need it. Decided against it, because worse case, I end up with a non-functional slot, and best case, I have exactly what I need.

Aside from that, I do think the prior mock-up of the no-ODD version looks better than the new one with the centre-aligned ports, but they look perfectly fine on the new ODD version. One thought is that if you took AFD's idea of a full-length groove, made the ODD slot stealthed within it (a la PS4), and then kept the groove on the no-ODD version, you would restore balance between the two approaches, visually. Might still be less pretty than the original, but I think it might be prettier than the current no-ODD approach.

My biggest concern is the GPU length. We don't know what is going to happen with GPU sizes two/three generations down the road, and since this setup ia able to power such high end hardware, and the airflow for GPU probably will be great here, it would be a shame to rule out "say a GTX 990" due to the ODD. Is the position of the front I/O just down to where holes are int the front panel? Would it be possible if both ODD and no ODD panel is offered to still keep the position from the original render on the front I/O for the no ODD version so that we who opt for it don't have to do the GPU legth tradeoff?

Reference card sizes have been pretty stable over a large number of generations, almost as if there were some sort of compatibility standard for maximum market penetration to which they are adhering... and if by GTX990, you're thinking a dual-GPU card like the Maxwell version of the GTX690, or the TITAN-Z, then I think it is going to be ruled out by the width limitation long before it gets ruled out by the length one. The R295x2 and its successor certainly aren't fitting into this case.

Assuming the rumor that the 28nm Maxwell line-up from Nvidia next week/month will skip the GTX8xx nomenclature (relegating it to the mobile lineup) is true, then I bet you a dollar that the GTX980, the GTX980Ti, and the TIT9N, will all fit in the ODD-revision as currently proposed.

EDIT: And a second dollar that the 22nm Maxwell line-up (GTXK80ti?) will fit too!

 

[WiSK]

If you have kids and enough disposable income for a custom case, then you also have enough disposable income for a regular good old dvd or bluray player, which is most likely a LOT simpler to use for a kid. Put in the disc and it starts playing. Press the eject button and it comes out. I fail to see how a Steam Machine, acting as an HTPC on the side, would be simpler to use for kids?.

Sorry I was not trying to argue for or against optical support either way. I was just trying to illustrate why the NCase with slot sold more than the one without.

Indeed those who want to use DVDs can buy an external player or dedicated unit. Or a different case

 

[Phuncz]

However I believe the aesthetics (extra cables sticking out at the front) point is still valid.

But cables sticking out isn't exclusive to front ports. People would then need to plug their headsets into the back, meaning it will need an additional 40cm (with orientation and bends) of cable but you still have those cables with or without the front ports. They are an extra convenience, since rear audio ports are always present.

Necere in the end decides but I think these are important. Wireless headsets aren't a good alternative (not many to choose from, heavy, expensive) and not everyone has or wants a USB headset when they have a motherboard with a decent headphone amp.

 

[backfeed]

Aside from that, I do think the prior mock-up of the no-ODD version looks better than the new one with the centre-aligned ports, but they look perfectly fine on the new ODD version. One thought is that if you took AFD's idea of a full-length groove, made the ODD slot stealthed within it (a la PS4), and then kept the groove on the no-ODD version, you would restore balance between the two approaches, visually. Might still be less pretty than the original, but I think it might be prettier than the current no-ODD approach.

You mean something in line (HA!) with this?

I actually think this looks better than the new non-ODD version, especially in the vertical position.

Or perhaps you just meant to have one groove?

 

[backfeed]

I was just trying to illustrate why the NCase with slot sold more than the one without.

It could also be because many didn't care either way, and some who did couldn't or wouldn't buy an extra top panel.

What I mean, is that I wonder how it would have been if the M1 was sold without the ODD slot as default, and instead the ODD-slotted panel would have been the optional extra? How many would have actually ordered the extra panel?

 

[zalbard]

But cables sticking out isn't exclusive to front ports. People would then need to plug their headsets into the back

That's what I and everyone I know is doing. Headset cables are extra long just for that purpose.

You just route them behind your furniture neatly so everything looks great and cables don't get in your way. It's exactly the same as for mouse and keyboard, I bet you don't use frontal ports for those...

IMO frontal ports are mostly for situational use. But to each its own I guess.

 

[MaSsAcRe]

I honestly didn't think you guys would be able to make something even more drop dead gorgeous than the M1 but here I am clearly proven wrong and drooling. It's about time someone stepped up and made a case combining the steam machine internal layout with refined minimalist aesthetics. I'll be following this thread closely and just like the M1, I'm buying this sucker whenever it becomes available. Keep up the phenomenal work guys!

 

[jalex3]

You mean something in line (HA!) with this?

Looks wise this is the one I like most, with or without the ODD. I will be using the case with the stand.
In the end though it still leaves less room for the video card. But the lines and centered power Look fantastic when the case is vertical.

 

[Bobalias_LeShay]

I also can't ignore that fact that M1 orders were more than two to one in favor of an ODD slot.

I suspect that has far more to do with having the option to add an ODD at some point rather than people who actually have one. I'd be surprised if more than 20% of M1 owners have an optical drive installed. (I'm now bracing for a deluge of posts from everyone that does telling me I'm wrong ) The ODD slot in the M1 didn't really detract from appearances since there were already panel seams nearby. On the front of this case there is a substantial appearance difference, imo.

I hope to god that you keep an option without the ODD. Seriously, its dying and i dont understand why people would want one. It will make the case larger (smaller on the inside) and uglier, get an external slim one? Like the apple superdrive.

Also no damn grove. That just looks silly. Neceres original idea is much cleaner and more stylish.

I agree with these sentiments, if not the tone. Optical media is mostly unused and not worth the compromise. (I literally can't remember the last time I used an optical drive.) Personally, the case looks much better to me without an ODD slot or groove/design line. Very clean and monolithic.

Another comment, while I'm trumpeting my opinions. I liked the NCASE logo on the opposite side of the power/USB. The rotated USB design looks better than the original render, but having all 3 things on one side feels unbalanced. I think PWR-USB-SPACE-LOGO would look better than PWR-LOGO-USB-SPACE. I also preferred the ports/button/logo at the top instead of on the centerline.

Regardless, shut up and take my money

 

[backfeed]

You guys with the grooves, are you trying to make the case look cluttered? Why don't we add a groove to M1 front panel too?

No, just trying to stealth the (unwanted) ODD slot. The ODD slot is the clutter.

 

[AFD]

^Yes, the ODD slot and the USB ports both make the flat front look cluttered. How about a single groove to stealth the ODD slot, no front USB, and centered power button..

If bending or machining a groove isn't feasible, or unpopular, the same effect could probably be mimicked with a vinyl or paint pin-stripe done by the buyer.


EDIT: Nvm. That pic I just posted kinda looks like a big slot-load laserdisc player

 

[WiSK]

I wonder how it would have been if the M1 was sold without the ODD slot as default, and instead the ODD-slotted panel would have been the optional extra? How many would have actually ordered the extra panel?

You forget there was a vote amongst IGG backers for exactly that question, and more people voted slot than not.

As of right now, the survey has the ODD as the default option by a decent margin.

Which lead to this decision...

I'm in the NO ODD camp, there will definitely be some sort of option for NO ODD top cover.

 

[AFD]

You forget there was a vote amongst IGG backers for exactly that question, and more people voted slot than not.

Simple solution. He can just tell us that he's making the case bigger to accommodate a 5.25" bay for tray-load optical drives..

People would be begging to bring the slot-load back

You guys with the grooves, are you trying to make the case look cluttered? Why don't we add a groove to M1 front panel too?

Did you forget the M1 has the 2x front angles that are stealthing a spot for an ODD?

Overall, that one particular design element both served a purpose and did so in an aesthetically pleasing way that made it truly stand out from all the flat-fronted boxes on the market.

 

[backfeed]

You forget there was a vote amongst IGG backers for exactly that question, and more people voted slot than not.

Ah. I missed that somehow. Then I suggest a new vote for this case.

 

[Geoffrey4283]

EDIT: Nvm. That pic I just posted kinda looks like a big slot-load laserdisc player

I actually think it looks kind of awesome. Nonetheless, the power button has to be off-set from the ODD, because the ODD is already taking up the whole width of the upper section. I don't think it can be moved that far down/right to leave room for the power button internals.

And backfeed, yes, I meant just one groove. The two groove version reminds me of something, and whatever it is, it isn't good.

 

[InZ]

I like the original no-odd design better. I liked the M2 design even better, but that isn't very nice vertically so i guess thats out. I don't see how an ODD is needed for a steam-machine though.

 

[Geoffrey4283]

Anyone thinking this is more aesthetically pleasing than this, needs to be sent to some "product design for dummies 101" crash course asap.

No accounting for taste, I know, I know...

 

[WiSK]

Ah. I missed that somehow. Then I suggest a new vote for this case.

When it gets to IGG for funding the prototype, I'm sure to vote for the laserdisc option.

Or eight-track, always wanted one of those

 

[bAMtan2]

any discussion or posts about ODD / HDD / front ports = waste of the designer's time. all of those things are optional, and yet there is NO case like this for sale yet. ZERO. so the first thing he should do is design and ship the basic case. then optional features might come later.

if you want to add a hard drive or optical drive or usb ports in the mean time, do what everyone else does and PLUG THEM IN THE BACK! that's what USB is for. stop filling the guy's head with requests for optional features so he can just FINISH AND SELL THE CASE!

 

[backfeed]

any discussion or posts about ODD / HDD / front ports = waste of the designer's time. all of those things are optional, and yet there is NO case like this for sale yet. ZERO. so the first thing he should do is design and ship the basic case. then optional features might come later.

if you want to add a hard drive or optical drive or usb ports in the mean time, do what everyone else does and PLUG THEM IN THE BACK! that's what USB is for. stop filling the guy's head with requests for optional features so he can just FINISH AND SELL THE CASE!

You're missing the point. Adding ODD support isn't a simple option to add later; it requires changes to the basic case. Can't be done later. That's what the fuss is all about.

 

[backfeed]

When it gets to IGG for funding the prototype, I'm sure to vote for the laserdisc option.

Or eight-track, always wanted one of those

Also:

 

[WiSK]

any discussion or posts about ODD / HDD / front ports = waste of the designer's time.... FINISH AND SELL THE CASE!

lol

I posted to get feedback, so the suggestions for changes are expected. It's part of the process, and helps me understand people's needs and desires better, and hopefully creates a better end product.

 

[energizerfellow]

For the 20 somethings who think DVDs are dying. You can explain to a three-year-old how to put a disc in a machine, but you can't easily explain to them how to download films because they can't read properly or type or control a mouse until they are older. This is why people want cases with a slot for optical discs.

DVDs with kids? Are you nuts? It's all about Netflix/Hulu/Amazon on an iPad. Bonus points as said kid(s) on iPads can be using headphones and you don't have to listen to Frozen's Let It Go for the 10 millionth fucking time.

But cables sticking out isn't exclusive to front ports. People would then need to plug their headsets into the back, meaning it will need an additional 40cm (with orientation and bends) of cable but you still have those cables with or without the front ports. They are an extra convenience, since rear audio ports are always present.

Higher-end headphones meant for home use (Sennheiser HD650, et al.) come with cords in the 6'-15' range, if not longer. That and the plugs are 1/4", not 1/8".

Plus who uses front-panel audio on a HTPC? Honestly? You'll be pulling audio down through HDMI to a receiver (which has a 1/4" headphone jack). Never mind that the receiver will have much, much better DACs, op-amps, and electrical noise isolation than your on-board audio, especially for anything mITX.

I agree with these sentiments, if not the tone. Optical media is mostly unused and not worth the compromise. (I literally can't remember the last time I used an optical drive.) Personally, the case looks much better to me without an ODD slot or groove/design line. Very clean and monolithic.

I can't remember the last time I used optical media either, even for an OS install. Every modern OS officially supports being installed from a USB key. Even Windows has supported it since Vista.

You guys with the grooves, are you trying to make the case look cluttered? Why don't we add a groove to M1 front panel too?

Pretty much. The beauty is in its ultra-sleek Apple/IBM/Lenovo/Braun-like aesthetic simplicity. I always lulz at the people who call the classic ThinkPad look "boring", "ugly", "it's just like black or whatever", yet somebody with a professional background in design will tell you it's "doing things right" and break out into talking about strong lines, use of negative space, etc. The seemingly simple work of people like Saul Bass and Charles and Ray Eames are shown in places like MOMA for a reason.

any discussion or posts about ODD / HDD / front ports = waste of the designer's time. all of those things are optional, and yet there is NO case like this for sale yet. ZERO. so the first thing he should do is design and ship the basic case. then optional features might come later.

if you want to add a hard drive or optical drive or usb ports in the mean time, do what everyone else does and PLUG THEM IN THE BACK! that's what USB is for. stop filling the guy's head with requests for optional features so he can just FINISH AND SELL THE CASE!

What he said. For those who just must have an ODD: http://www.newegg.com/External-CD-DVD-Blu-Ray-Drives/SubCategory/ID-420

 

[Madao]

Questions for Necere:
#1. Are wider GPUs like the classifieds still no go for this new project case?
From the sketches the card seems it might fit but no room for PCIE power connectors.

#2. With the GPU compartment, will cards with back plates fit without issue?

#3. Is 2.5" drive mounting mechanism same as M1? If so, will that also impact GPU per Q#2?


My wishlist:
-stick to no odd, don't compromise
-clean front panel, no grooves
-soft usb 3.0 cable (or I'll have to cut it off like what I did with my M1 and M1v2)
-option to buy extra side panels without the feet mounting holes
-anti gpu sag bracket with sliding/movable mounting


Misc:
It seems other case manufacturers are all using GPU riser card instead of flex cable.
Can anyone enlighten me about the performance/quality/cost comparisons between the two options?

 

[Deleted member 276776]

For people who want the groove on the front panel (whether it be one, two, or however many) I don't think it makes sense. Computers are a weird spot between art and product, art being something that's meant to be looked at versus product which should act as tool that is not meant to be noticed (by Dieter Rams' definition of what good design is. If this is to be a product, it must be designed, not be a work of art).

The grooves would really serve no purpose. They would just end up another extra step in production and it provides no aesthetic value except for adding more lines for you to focus your attention on which is NOT what you want if you agree with Dieter Rams' principles of good design.

I'd just skip it to remove extra steps from production and so that it does not draw any more attention than it should.

 

[Necere]

Questions for Necere:
#1. Are wider GPUs like the classifieds still no go for this new project case?
From the sketches the card seems it might fit but no room for PCIE power connectors.

Height limitation is pretty much the same as in the M1, so no extra-tall cards.

#2. With the GPU compartment, will cards with back plates fit without issue?

Yeah, there's a bit of room behind the card so backplates shouldn't be an issue.

#3. Is 2.5" drive mounting mechanism same as M1? If so, will that also impact GPU per Q#2?

It's still to be determined, but if it's the same it won't affect anything on the GPU side.