wahaha360
Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2012
- Messages
- 943
If only you were part of Ncase, you could have both removed...
Tell that to Necere.
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If only you were part of Ncase, you could have both removed...
For me the ODD is like the Window, more trouble than it is worth, ideally, we should get rid of both.
Mockups of some different front I/O options:
The advantages of a separate section as in #1 and #2 is that it can be upgraded more easily and the ports labels are more legible. I think the M1 style (#2) doesn't work that well here, in part because the front panel feels truncated and imbalanced. It's more of a problem in the horizontal orientation, though.
Are you somehow suggesting that I haven't been 100% opposed to a window on the PCX from the very beginning? That it was you who for some reason has insisted on trying to shoehorn one in? My position has always been that it doesn't fit the design, and you (and everyone else that has been paying attention to the thread) knows this full well.Tell that to Necere.
The problem I have with doors is that if they're not perfect, they're worse than no door. If the mechanism is too loose, it'll have poor alignment and/or rattle. If it's too tight it'll be difficult to operate and/or strip the finish. It's prone to coming loose over time or breaking. Perfection isn't possible in manufacturing, so whatever you might imagine a door to be like, the reality wouldn't measure up.What if you put the I/O behind a door that can flip/slide/dematerialize? For the M1 style cutout (second option), you could have the door slide up to expose the I/O...can be the same material as the front panel, but maybe put it on a track or use pads to protect the finish from scratches...For the rectangle cutout (first option), you could have a door with a push lock/release. Again, same material as the front panel...
Also, this may be premature, but for the I/O cables on the inside of the case...Could you prerun them to the bottom corner then they are loose from there? I don't need a straight run from the front I/O to the motherboard, and the cables (at least in the M1) are really long. Even if there could just be a 90° from the back of the I/O panel...
I guess I'm the minority that would like an ODD. I say if it doesn't affect anything else and it fits, why not? This case will look great in my TV entertainment console.
I too still use DVDs and Blu-rays as I live in rural Canada and high speed internet is very expensive and not very reliable (yet?).
I say if it doesn't affect anything else and it fits, why not?
How rural are we talking? Are you surfing the forums on dial-up!?.
The best service I can get is 5 Mbps down and 1 Mbps up, and that has a 85 GB limit for $65 per month plus $10 for the equipment fee
The problem I have with doors is that if they're not perfect, they're worse than no doo
Regarding the I/O cables, by "bottom corner" are you referring to the bottom corner of the case (when standing up) or the motherboard?
No. I've stepped away from this for the moment. That's something I often do after creating a new concept, as it helps to come back to it after a while with a set of fresh eyes.Necere any more news/renders? I need my fix...
I wouldn't expect it anytime soon. Go ahead with whatever current plans you have.Hey necere, im about to buy the ncase m1, if I do that I wont buy this or any other case for a long while (years).
But if you say you will crowdfund this case some time soon I will pledge for it instead.
Update:
Necere and I have agree to do separate projects. Necere will focus on the Rev 3 (thick case) and I will create a new case project under a separate brand (yet to be determined).
We have fundamentally different visions, so to satisfy us both will just end up with a compromised product. For me, a console PC / steam machine should be designed for horizontal placement on a TV cabinet (living room), and *still horizontal but VESA mounted on a desk. To try and make a design work in both horizontal and vertical orientation is compromising.
Why bother minimizing desktop foot print when you can VESA mount and take no desktop space at all. So to me, the ultimate SFF is a VESA mounted PC.
I will show the case in a different thread when I have more time. I will need to finish my renders before I make a post. You guys are easily swayed by fancy renders, so I need to up my game in that area .
I had hoped that both designs could have been produced as new Ncase models.
I been working with other indie makers on this forum on a new website so people can get NCASE, Dan Cases, NFC, Kimera Industries from one place. One roof while retaining our own brand will allow us to collaborate among ourselves freely.
NCASE is a collaboration btw myself and Necere, if all goes well, I might collaborate with NFC and Kimera too, so it's all good. If I collaborate with Dondan, I can call the case "DD" (Dan + Dan)...lol
As long as you have a USB port you don't need an internal ODD. I could fit 3 in my case if I wanted to and yet I have none. I will say you can find deals on games that are only if you get the disc instead of digital, that's the only reason I have an external ODD.
I'm the guy my friends and family come to with their pc issues. I often find myself having to reinstall Windows for them, and a few of these machines refuse to reliably boot from usb.
I'm the guy my friends and family come to with their pc issues. I often find myself having to reinstall Windows for them, and a few of these machines refuse to reliably boot from usb. So I burn discs. With how unreliable I've found stored discs to be, I make a new one each time. Inefficient, I know, but it rules out a variable when diagnosing and has solved a fair number of problems since I started doing it. This is to say nothing of my tinkering with older machines. An external drive is wasted desk space, not to mention ugly and not as safe as internal. It's the reason I got an M1 over things like the dan a4. I get that I'm not of a popular opinion on this, but I personally need an optical drive. They have other uses not touched on yet here a well. Emulators spring to mind, being able to pop in a disc from my ps2 library is preferable to wasting hard drive space on the iso, and since something like this would be used as a living room entertainment center pc, that in particular is functionality I refuse to compromise.
ODD is a mental block for me and I find supportting it in 2017 demoralizing.
I just don't want to work on any case with ODD. In fact, I'm really tempted to just end the M1 WITH ODD too. It's mentally exhausting to support something so backwards.
This is a stance I have trouble wrapping my head around. If it's an issue of design, where it simply won't fit (or would take more effort to figure out than could be justified), then it'd be understandable to exclude it. Regrettable, but unavoidable, in such a scenario. However, to want to exclude support for something on principle as you seem to describe just doesn't make any sense to me. I don't understand how backwards compatibility with an older or less popular technology without sacrifice wouldn't be something to be proud of, let alone demoralizing. But maybe that's just me.
I mean, it's not my project, obviously, so I don't ultimately have a say in it. I'm just throwing in my two cents.
I hope there is no bad blood between you to as you do beautiful work together, however I am very happy to hear that you will not be compromising your vision. I think the original idea of a steam style case in this form factor is one many people are drawn too and interested in. Good luck and hurry up and take my moneyUpdate:
Necere and I have agree to do separate projects. Necere will focus on the Rev 3 (thick case) and I will create a new case project under a separate brand (yet to be determined).
We have fundamentally different visions, so to satisfy us both will just end up with a compromised product. For me, a console PC / steam machine should be designed for horizontal placement on a TV cabinet (living room), and *still horizontal but VESA mounted on a desk. To try and make a design work in both horizontal and vertical orientation is compromising.
Why bother minimizing desktop foot print when you can VESA mount and take no desktop space at all. So to me, the ultimate SFF is a VESA mounted PC.
I will show the case in a different thread when I have more time. I will need to finish my renders before I make a post. You guys are easily swayed by fancy renders, so I need to up my game in that area .
Yea, i forgot to mention the trade offs from my perspective.
With SFF cases, there are always trade offs no?
1) an ODD in the horizontal design interferes with the amount of space the GPU has for airflow. It's also another heat source inside the case.
2) without ODD, the Flex PSU can be on to the ground of the chassis, leaving room for 2x 2.5" SSDs above the Flex PSU, which also could makes cable mgmt better (ODD connector cable is big and bulky).
3) the ODD makes the Flex PSU bracket more complex, the ODD brackets are also very small and therefore more costly.
Typicall SFF trade-offs in addition to my personal preference, leads me to say no to ODD.
I suspect they're harder to find as fewer and fewer laptops include optical drives, which sucks for the SFF fans that use them.PCpartpicker lists one Panasonic slim slot-load drive for a not too terrible price of $119, but in general the slot loaders seem to going extinct. That's why I designed this version for regular, non-slot loading slim drives, as there's still a few of those available.
I still find your desire to discontinue support for it in the M1 strange, though.
I hope there is no bad blood between you to as you do beautiful work together, however I am very happy to hear that you will not be compromising your vision. I think the original idea of a steam style case in this form factor is one many people are drawn too and interested in. Good luck and hurry up and take my money
They argue a bunch and are usually fine. I think it's best for them to let each other get their own passion project out, and then get back together to talk about the next step. I'm excited to see how it works.
But given that the parts already exist for the M1, why would you remove this feature? It just seems perverse. If you were starting from scratch again then I could see the sense in what you're saying, but to remove a feature from an existing product is just strange.The ODD slot on the M1 panel looks out of place. So for a better look.
Also, from a logistic perspective, Silver and Black NO ODD creates 2 additional SKU, more complexity.
As he writes:But given that the parts already exist for the M1, why would you remove this feature? It just seems perverse. If you were starting from scratch again then I could see the sense in what you're saying, but to remove a feature from an existing product is just strange.
I mean, I don't use an ODD with my M1 but I have a top panel with ODD cut-out. It doesn't bother me in the slightest.
As he writes:
1: for better look
2: easier logistics,
Please, read.