The next NCASE project: a Steam Machine-style case (indeterminate)

Why have you moved away from the m1 style front? I thought this was great and reinforced a brand style like many car manufacturers do.

The last image you post make it just look like a boring box imo.
 
MightyBenihana said:
Why have you moved away from the m1 style front? I thought this was great and reinforced a brand style like many car manufacturers do.

The last image you post make it just look like a boring box imo.
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Neither the old LRPC concept nor this newer one has ever had an "M1 style front," and it can't have moved away from something it never had. If the question is, "why doesn't it share the M1 look," see this post in the mATX concept thread, which applies here as well. I design around the functional elements, and the M1 style front won't necessarily work with where things need to be in this layout.

More generally though, and at the risk of sounding pretentious, what I'm striving for is essential design; that is, design reduced to its essence functionally, executed in an aesthetic way. It's not trying to be anything it's not; it is honest about what it is. See Dieter Rams' ten principles of good design.

There are plenty of "exciting" cases on the market, but they are invariably ugly to my eye. I don't mind my designs being called boring, if they nevertheless are able to meet the criteria of being honest and aesthetic.
 
Flowmotion said:
YEdQr9F.png
<-- NCASE look is quite impressive
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I saw this and thought it was yours. Sorry.

I didn't mean to sound so negative about your design it's just this aesthetic carries on the design of the m1 nicely
 
Necere I think the most frustrating part of this thread is the numerous renders you have posted. You have a great eye for design, and it's sad to see all these amazing renders you post that will never materialize. I agree with what you said, "there are plenty of "exciting" cases on the market, but they are invariably ugly to my eye." There are sooo many aesthetically ugly cases released. That was one thing I appreciated about the Ncase, while too big for my tastes, it was designed beautifully.

Which makes me ask the question, and sorry for being offtopic, what cases do you admire aesthetically? Here are a few that I like:

- Streacom - great looking cases. Bit overpriced and limited on hardware choices
- DNK-H Luna Design
- Xbox One S - By far my favourite design wise
- HG Osmi /Tenuis
- Cryorig Taku

So that's around 5 cases among the hundreds released that I found to be aeasthetically pleasing. I have not yet found a iTX case that is horizontal, manages airflow efficiently, small, and looks good. That's one thing that excites me about this project, as I am sure your final design will tick off all these boxes.
 
fminus said:
Necere I think the most frustrating part of this thread is the numerous renders you have posted. You have a great eye for design, and it's sad to see all these amazing renders you post that will never materialize. I agree with what you said, "there are plenty of "exciting" cases on the market, but they are invariably ugly to my eye." There are sooo many aesthetically ugly cases released. That was one thing I appreciated about the Ncase, while too big for my tastes, it was designed beautifully.

Which makes me ask the question, and sorry for being offtopic, what cases do you admire aesthetically? Here are a few that I like:

- Streacom - great looking cases. Bit overpriced and limited on hardware choices
- DNK-H Luna Design
- Xbox One S - By far my favourite design wise
- HG Osmi /Tenuis
- Cryorig Taku

So that's around 5 cases among the hundreds released that I found to be aeasthetically pleasing. I have not yet found a iTX case that is horizontal, manages airflow efficiently, small, and looks good. That's one thing that excites me about this project, as I am sure your final design will tick off all these boxes.
Click to expand...

Those are some nice designs.
 
wahaha360 said:
I'm planning a build in this case with the following:
- 95W CPU
- full length 1080TI
- 3x 2.5" HDD
- 1x M.2 SSD
- open frame 450W PSU under the dual 120mm fans
Click to expand...

I would love to see this. I think support for full-length GPUs will hurt you in the temps/airflow/noise department and somewhat defeat the purpose of the case, BUT it will give it more versatility (which is in line with the NCase DNA) and expand your clientele, so it's a fine balance. I'm personally for it, but I'm an SFF enthusiast and not an average buyer.

I'm glad you're also thinking about taking the cover off of the PSU and cooling it with the bracket fan, tho I don't imagine that's something that can be officially supported. But it's nice to have the option for enthusiasts. I'm kind of starting to think of this case as really good for very easy unofficially supported modding.

Question, you'll have to move the PSU over to under the fan bracket to fit a full-length GPU, so where are you going to put the 2.5" drives?
 
Necere & Wahaha360 Love your work.
I have a M1, ODD Slot-less of course because its 2017.

Have you guys considered a front panel HDMI for this new case?
Also i see all concept art has USB type A on the front, any chance for Type C?

Also any chance to see a TypeC port on the M1 in the future?
 
Kebabgud said:
Necere & Wahaha360 Love your work.
I have a M1, ODD Slot-less of course because its 2017.

Have you guys considered a front panel HDMI for this new case?
Also i see all concept art has USB type A on the front, any chance for Type C?

Also any chance to see a TypeC port on the M1 in the future?
Click to expand...

Lian Li makes the PW-IC01NH45 cable which connects to the USB 3.1 header on some Asus and MSI motherboards and provides a USB C port. According to this post on the Republic of Gamers Forum, Lian Li will sell the cable directly to consumers for $29 (US). Case King, a German online store, lists the cable for €19.90 (~ $22 US), with stock being available on May 17th.
 
QuantumBraced said:
I would love to see this. I think support for full-length GPUs will hurt you in the temps/airflow/noise department and somewhat defeat the purpose of the case, BUT it will give it more versatility (which is in line with the NCase DNA) and expand your clientele, so it's a fine balance. I'm personally for it, but I'm an SFF enthusiast and not an average buyer.

I'm glad you're also thinking about taking the cover off of the PSU and cooling it with the bracket fan, tho I don't imagine that's something that can be officially supported. But it's nice to have the option for enthusiasts. I'm kind of starting to think of this case as really good for very easy unofficially supported modding.

Question, you'll have to move the PSU over to under the fan bracket to fit a full-length GPU, so where are you going to put the 2.5" drives?
Click to expand...

Full size GPU will not be officially supported, so it's DIY territory.

There will be more fanless PSUs coming (like the HD Plex AC-DC), so it makes sense to have extra screw holes to mounting via adapters.



I can't say what we will officially support, but I can tell you my plans.

Someone offered to get me a 450W+ fan less PSU *based on either the Mac Pro or Mean Well EPP-400-24. With the 1080TI in place, there is space for *one 9.5mm 2.5" Drive between GPU and the bottom of the case. You could theoretically put two, but it might choke the GPU because it will be too close.

qqRHg3vl.png


However, the 2.5 drive will be in place of the ODD drive.

3izMf6Zl.png


I plan to use Noctua 40mmx15mm fans for exhaust.

BAoelCGl.png
 
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To be clear, w360's design for the prototype doesn't necessarily reflect how the production version will be, and what he's showing here are some of his own ideas for modding it for his personal use. Mounting the PSU there necessitates removing the front I/O (which he doesn't care about), and IMO isn't a very good solution. Moreover, using an open frame PSU is asking for trouble, and it's likely w360 will destroy his PC and/or kill himself. I strongly recommend against anyone doing anything like that.

fminus said:
Which makes me ask the question, and sorry for being offtopic, what cases do you admire aesthetically? Here are a few that I like:

- Streacom - great looking cases. Bit overpriced and limited on hardware choices
- DNK-H Luna Design
- Xbox One S - By far my favourite design wise
- HG Osmi /Tenuis
- Cryorig Taku

So that's around 5 cases among the hundreds released that I found to be aeasthetically pleasing. I have not yet found a iTX case that is horizontal, manages airflow efficiently, small, and looks good. That's one thing that excites me about this project, as I am sure your final design will tick off all these boxes.
Click to expand...
There aren't any cases on the market that I really love, to be honest. The cases that you mentioned are mostly "just okay" to me. The Xbox One S is good, but not a PC case. When you don't have to worry about supporting a wide variety of different off the shelf hardware or making it relatively easy for an end user to build in, it makes it easier to achieve a good aesthetic result. It also doesn't hurt to have teams of professional designers and engineers and millions to spend on development and tooling.

My favorite PC case off that list is probably the Tenuis, purely on the basis of aesthetics. It's very much form over function though, and for that reason it's not something that really appeals to me. The same is true of most of those cases.

Kebabgud said:
Have you guys considered a front panel HDMI for this new case?
Also i see all concept art has USB type A on the front, any chance for Type C?

Also any chance to see a TypeC port on the M1 in the future?
Click to expand...
Type C, yes. HDMI, probably not on this case. AFAIK there aren't any short GPUs with front-mounted HDMI ports, and passing the cable through the back sucks.

Qrash said:
Lian Li makes the PW-IC01NH45 cable which connects to the USB 3.1 header on some Asus and MSI motherboards and provides a USB C port. According to this post on the Republic of Gamers Forum, Lian Li will sell the cable directly to consumers for $29 (US). Case King, a German online store, lists the cable for €19.90 (~ $22 US), with stock being available on May 17th.
Click to expand...
Like the M1, the front I/O will most likely be custom designed for the case, so you won't be able to just replace it with another cable.
 
Necere said:
To be clear, w360's design for the prototype doesn't necessarily reflect how the production version will be, and what he's showing here are some of his own ideas for modding it for his personal use. Mounting the PSU there necessitates removing the front I/O (which he doesn't care about), and IMO isn't a very good solution. Moreover, using an open frame PSU is asking for trouble, and it's likely w360 will destroy his PC and/or kill himself. I strongly recommend against anyone doing anything like that.
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Lots of confidence you have in your partner! In any case, I'm laughing hard. I was having a shitty day at the office, and you made my day much better.

My boss is looking at me in a weird way 'cause he doesn't understand what is so funny about the ton of invoices I'm doing at the moment. :D
 
wahaha360 said:
Full size GPU will not be officially supported, so it's DIY territory.

There will be more fanless PSUs coming (like the HD Plex AC-DC), so it makes sense to have extra screw holes to mounting via adapters.



I can't say what we will officially support, but I can tell you my plans.

Someone offered to get me a 450W+ fan less PSU *based on either the Mac Pro or Mean Well EPP-400-24. With the 1080TI in place, there is space for *one 9.5mm 2.5" Drive between GPU and the bottom of the case. You could theoretically put two, but it might choke the GPU because it will be too close.

qqRHg3vl.png


However, the 2.5 drive will be in place of the ODD drive.

3izMf6Zl.png


I plan to use Noctua 40mmx15mm fans for exhaust.

BAoelCGl.png
Click to expand...

To be honest... small fans are so shitty I'd rather not use them at all. If anything, it looks like a straight-5 cilinder block :p

Ah! And please do report about the safety hazard you are creating. If anything, we might get a good laugh off of it :D
 
Yeah, I think W360's design is modded beyond what a normal person buying the case could do. I think if you used a normal FlexATX PSU you could fit it between the motherboard and the I/O. And I agree with Necere about using an open PSU, although I guess if you did it right - modded the top panel to have a circular opening matching the fan above or something like that, you'd be okay. But I think most people who would do this would just move the PSU over to accommodate the full-length GPU and then just deal with the worse airflow and subsequent higher temperature and noise. If a 400W passive brick like HDPlex's came out, then you eliminate PSU noise and if you used a beefier graphics card (the case seems to support 2.5 slot), then that scenario starts to seem less extreme, but it's not possible yet. Also, in W360's mod, having that row of 40mm fans is just an automatic no way for me, my #1 concern with this case is PSU noise and you put 5 more of those fans in there haha, using some custom mounting bracket, and you essentially have a mini server rack. But I would love to see the mod.

Also, seems like it's possible to fit a 2.5" drive in the ODD slot after all. I think you guys should support that to make it easier for people to do modding shenanigans and use the space that's reserved to 2.5" drives by default.
 
Necere said:
Moreover, using an open frame PSU is asking for trouble, and it's likely w360 will destroy his PC and/or kill himself. I strongly recommend against anyone doing anything like that.
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I don't recommend others doing it either...it's AYOR category. For most people, it's better to just wait for the 450W fanless power supply.

Some say that the closer you are to death, the more alive you will feel - I do it for the adrenaline rush :p

At the end of day, you have to find motivation to keep moving forward.
 
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450W fanless PSU? You mean the Mac one you linked? That was just a proprietary PSU with the enclosure taken off, wasn't it? I think a fanless 450W is like the holy grail of SFF.
 
QuantumBraced said:
450W fanless PSU? You mean the Mac one you linked? That was just a proprietary PSU with the enclosure taken off, wasn't it? I think a fanless 450W is like the holy grail of SFF.
Click to expand...

450W fanless PSU = 450W open frame PSU with a mesh (or something with a lot of holes) casing.

There are multiple companies that offer open frame PSUs that are similar in dimension to Flex PSU (150x81.5x40.5mm).

What's left is providing 1) casing for the open frame, 2) 3.3V/5V/12V/-12V/+5VSP rails. There are indie PSU startups that might help us bridge the gap.
 
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Right. I'd really love to see a 400W or even a 500W passively cooled sealed unit, I think if efficiencies and components get better we can have that. There's actually a guy over on SFF forum who sells modded Dell 230W bricks to go with his Pico-style tiny PSU boards, and he has a brick that can handle 530W of continuous load, fully passive and sealed. Seems insane to me, but he seems legit, it proves that it's possible. I think we can at the very least have a fanless 350-400W SFX PSU. I guess manufacturers are afraid that SFF cases get hot and don't wanna do it. I don't see a passive Flex ATX coming out anytime soon, there are hardly any regular units for non-servers. But anyway, I don't want to derail the thread. I just want super tiny AND quiet, I wanna have it all. It's why I love the M1, you can have 4 fans running at <1000 RPM dissipating a ton of heat.
 
wahaha360 said:
I reached out to him about offering 450W fanless solutions.
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Are you talking about G-Unique? I'm not using mine at the moment. Would you want to use mine as a sample? Maybe we could work something out like I send it over if you pay for the shipping both ways?
 
But all of those have an external AC-to-DC brick right? Personally I prefer all-in-ones for internal mounting only.

Fanless is nice, but only as long as there's no coil whine (because I definitely prefer fan noise to that).
 
backfeed said:
But all of those have an external AC-to-DC brick right? Personally I prefer all-in-ones for internal mounting only.

Fanless is nice, but only as long as there's no coil whine (because I definitely prefer fan noise to that).
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No, the fanless options are all internal PSUs.
 
So just to give you guys a little insight into the performance of the HDPlex 300W AC-DC, I've been running it through a battery of tests over the last two weeks and it performs quite admirably. The highest load I've put it under is using an Intel 7700K running the Prime95 Blender Test and the Zotac 1080 Mini running Furmark's GPU Stress Test. No overclocking was tested as this config specs out close to the upper limit for the power unit.

Presently I have two units of the 300W AC-DC and they both can run the tests together for variable amounts of time (before the OCP is triggered on the AC-DC unit). Considering that these tests will run together from a matter of seconds for up to 10 minutes, I think it suffices to say that this is the upper limit from a hardware perspective for a single AC-DC unit. That being said, the possible momentary load of the hardware in this config is closing in on 400W. The constant load from the wall measured using a Kill-A-Watt unit bounces between 290W and 310W. Furthermore, the unit casing is at most lukewarm to the touch after 20-30 minutes of load testing. Also noise is virtually non-existent. One of my units has an intermittent ticking noise that is far less offensive than a coil whine while the other is silent.

Considering the fact that no real-world load should approximate the combined consumption of the components I mentioned, I think the 300W AC-DC should remain in consideration for your unit.
 
is there a reason for these style cases to not have the graphics card fans pointing up in the same direction as the cpu cooler? other than the extender length?

you could still wall off/separate the compartments and it seems like it would allow better airflow for the graphics card when sitting flat on a table without large feet on the case
 
Extender length is certainly a major reason, yeah. The longer extenders seem to be more prone to errors, so it's either go for quality with a 3M riser (and double the cost of the case in the process), or gamble on the cheaper, less reliable ones. Thermaltake chose the latter, and that seems have worked out poorly for them. Having to replace a part for potentially hundreds of customers can get very expensive very quickly, especially when you factor in shipping.

Btw, @No Hands 55, I saw you were looking for a console-style case that supports long GPUs, which eliminates my design from consideration. I hope you understand my reasons for designing it the way I have - namely dust filtration and forced system airflow. But understanding the trade offs, do you still consider long GPU support more important than dust filters and airflow?
 
Necere said:
Extender length is certainly a major reason, yeah. The longer extenders seem to be more prone to errors, so it's either go for quality with a 3M riser (and double the cost of the case in the process), or gamble on the cheaper, less reliable ones. Thermaltake chose the latter, and that seems have worked out poorly for them. Having to replace a part for potentially hundreds of customers can get very expensive very quickly, especially when you factor in shipping.

Btw, @No Hands 55, I saw you were looking for a console-style case that supports long GPUs, which eliminates my design from consideration. I hope you understand my reasons for designing it the way I have - namely dust filtration and forced system airflow. But understanding the trade offs, do you still consider long GPU support more important than dust filters and airflow?
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oof that does seem like a huge headache, good to know thanks! I do recall looking for extensions to move my gpu 1 slot lower in my M1 but decided against it because of the price for quality ones, which definitely makes sense in the grand scheme of mass production. I would still be curious what the temp difference could potentially be. It seems for a case that lays flat, having the fans facing upward could simplify some of the design, but also possibly complicate it in other areas.

EDIT: I just realized what i was trying to describe is essentially a DAN A4 laid out flat, so maybe it could work?

I am not totally against a style case with sff gpus. My main reasoning for looking for a full length gpu style console case is to accommodate the hardware i already have, and i would probably use it as my main gaming PC. I haven't really done my research on sff gpus, but when i checked a while back during the gtx 900 launch there were only a few to choose from and it seemed to really limit my choices, the benchmarks on them weren't great either. But like I said i'd have to see what is available now if i wanted to upgrade.

But regarding the filtering, id say its not a huge issue for me. I personally have never had an issue with dust, keep the office clean and don't have carpet or cats lol. But I you know much more regarding the airflow than i do. I know that the goal of sff is often to create the smallest workable feature rich case, but i feel like the extra length to accommodate a long gpu and open up so many more options while sticking with the console style seems worth it to me. Just depends on your goals with this case. Might even give a little more room for some other components?

Again, I am coming into this without any evidence and just my own thoughts which could be totally wrong. And I'd like to say admire your work and design process. Keep it up!
 
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Necere said:
Something I was considering was to use a different finish on the top cover vs. the rest of the case (including the front I/O strip), so even on a black case you get a bit of two-tone effect:

hTiF7n1.jpg


Think matte black for the case and more of a satin or brushed finish on the cover.
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SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY
 
Computex fatigue, still working on the PSU with Seasonic and FSP. Should be releasing a review on the revised Flex PSU soon.
 
So while w360's been plugging away at his version of the PCX design, I've been doing a bit of ideating on various concepts, and today came up with this:

HSEkVC8.png


Basically similar to the original design, but widened to allow the flexATX PSU to be rotated, and shortened (depthwise) accordingly. The two slim 120mm fans would be replaced by a single 140x25mm intake fan, with the possibility of two 80mm exhaust fans at the top.

Hypothetical specs
Dimensions (H x W x D): 340 x 94 x 240mm, 7.7L
CPU cooler: 40mm (exclusive of intake fan)
GPU: ~215mm long, ~125mm tall
PSU: flexATX @ 150mm long
Fans: 140x25mm intake, 2x80mm exhaust
Drives: 2x2.5"

Essentially, it's a small footprint case designed around showing off a card like the Zotac GTX 1080 Ti. Unlike the original PCX design, this is less of a console-style case, as it's meant only for vertical orientation and lacks ODD support.

My feeling is quite a few people would be more interested in something like this vs. the original design, but I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on it.
 
Looks good. I feel space for 2 SSDs is becoming less of a compromise than it used to be now that boards are beginning to come out with 1, 2, or even soon to be 3 m.2 SSDs. More expensive yes, but far less limiting.

I also like the move to smaller graphics cards. 1080ti in a small case? Yes, please. Graphics cards this generation seem to be on about the same level despite size and cooling ability.

As long as there are flex atx psus to power everything, it should make for a pretty sick machine.

I see this design as being a truly portable Ncase with minimal compromises when it comes to gaming. CPU heat disapation will be a compromise that must be made. But thankfully the bigger Ncase solves this problem with ease. I see both the old Ncase and the new Ncase existing well together too.

I love both designs, but I feel the latter may appeal to broader audience. It would apeal to gamers which is where a lot of the money seems to be.

I hate to say it, but market that red color you rendered, add support for rgb somehow, and I can't see people not going crazy over it.
 
Necere said:
So while w360's been plugging away at his version of the PCX design, I've been doing a bit of ideating on various concepts, and today came up with this:

HSEkVC8.png


Basically similar to the original design, but widened to allow the flexATX PSU to be rotated, and shortened (depthwise) accordingly. The two slim 120mm fans would be replaced by a single 140x25mm intake fan, with the possibility of two 80mm exhaust fans at the top.

Hypothetical specs
Dimensions (H x W x D): 340 x 94 x 240mm, 7.7L
CPU cooler: 40mm (exclusive of intake fan)
GPU: ~215mm long, ~125mm tall
PSU: flexATX @ 150mm long
Fans: 140x25mm intake, 2x80mm exhaust
Drives: 2x2.5"

Essentially, it's a small footprint case designed around showing off a card like the Zotac GTX 1080 Ti. Unlike the original PCX design, this is less of a console-style case, as it's meant only for vertical orientation and lacks ODD support.

My feeling is quite a few people would be more interested in something like this vs. the original design, but I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on it.
Click to expand...

Something is broken.

Im throwing money at the screen and nothing happens! I want one!
 
I like it but i would reduce the width to 82.8mm. Also the stand needs a more elegant design or just go without it :)
 
Necere said:
So while w360's been plugging away at his version of the PCX design, I've been doing a bit of ideating on various concepts, and today came up with this:

HSEkVC8.png


Basically similar to the original design, but widened to allow the flexATX PSU to be rotated, and shortened (depthwise) accordingly. The two slim 120mm fans would be replaced by a single 140x25mm intake fan, with the possibility of two 80mm exhaust fans at the top.

Hypothetical specs
Dimensions (H x W x D): 340 x 94 x 240mm, 7.7L
CPU cooler: 40mm (exclusive of intake fan)
GPU: ~215mm long, ~125mm tall
PSU: flexATX @ 150mm long
Fans: 140x25mm intake, 2x80mm exhaust
Drives: 2x2.5"

Essentially, it's a small footprint case designed around showing off a card like the Zotac GTX 1080 Ti. Unlike the original PCX design, this is less of a console-style case, as it's meant only for vertical orientation and lacks ODD support.

My feeling is quite a few people would be more interested in something like this vs. the original design, but I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on it.
Click to expand...

I really like the look of this design, I think the top mounted 80mm fans would be a good idea to exhaust the GPU. Now make it already. ;)
 
Very bold direction, I like it. In my view:

Cons:

- 0.6L larger.
- Airflow to the PSU is not optimized and PSU exhaust will feed into GPU space.
- Descreased airflow with single 140x25 fan vs 2x 120x15 fans - if we go by Noctua fans, their A14 pushes 140 m^3/h whereas their new A12x15 pushes 92 m^3/h, so x2 = 184 at similar noise levels. But not a huge difference.

Pros:

- More static pressure on top of the CPU heatsink (again, looking at the Noctua fans its 1.53 vs 2.08 mm H2O). Makes X(2)99 builds with the T318/R15 heatsink seem not totally crazy.
- More headroom for taller CPU coolers. However if a weaker fan is used it won't provide enough airflow for all the components inside, so the 140x25 has to be strongly recommended (is there a bracket?). But then you can end up with a small heatsink and a massive 140x25 fan on top of it, would that really be efficient/make sense? In the previous version, 15mm fans were more appropriate for small heatsinks or you could keep your original cooler fan and still have a second 120x15 fan for additional airflow. What's the best CPU cooler right now that has a 40mm heatsink?
- I really dig the GPU window, great idea. Maybe even extend down to see the backside of the motherboard, if that's something that people would wanna show off. I would, but I'm not sure most would :p
- The case is wider, so more tower-like. I'm not a fan of superslim skyscraper cases, they make me nervous, but that's just me so this is subjective.
- The case is more space optimized and supports a 1080 Ti, which is amazing.
- The case is more HDPlex friendly as it will stay in place without any mounting holes or tape just from cable pressure, like in the S4 Mini.

Note: Do we really need the 80mm exhaust fans? I guess we may as well have mounts if there's no space for anything else.

Crazy idea: Make the case 5mm deeper and a 1-2 mm wider and fit a 200mm intake fan. But then you're pushing 8.1-8.2L and you still have the issue of giant intake fan on a tiny heatsink.
 
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