The next NCASE project: a Steam Machine-style case (indeterminate)

The layout looks great, and since it limits GPU to mostly GTX 1060

The MSI 1070 mini and Gigabyte 1070 mini should fit as well. Hopefully this case will convince mfg to release more short cards and ideally a 1080 mini less than 175mm long.

As you have mentioned, the major problem here is the PSU. Other than the fan noise, another problem is the cable arrange in most FLEX PSU in the market seems long and hard to fit in a small case.

If possible, it would be good to have a customised FLEX PSU with a) fan with lower noise, and b) cable with a shorter length.

Already have two for testing :)
 
The case is designed so that everything is working together to get the air moving in one direction through the case: the 120mm fans draw air in through the top, it takes an immediate right angle turn at the motherboard, then is drawn in by the PSU and GPU fans, and exhausted out the side. Adding bottom vents would be counterproductive to this airflow scheme.

Ah....I see what you mean - make sense.
 
The MSI 1070 mini and Gigabyte 1070 mini should fit as well. Hopefully this case will convince mfg to release more short cards and ideally a 1080 mini less than 175mm long.



Already have two for testing :)


Don't forget they are some AMD mini ITX cards out there too:cool:
 
Complicate things? Necere has already thought to include ODD support. I'm not forcing anything, rather I asked if the support could be there since this case is ideal as an HTPC setup. Again, you don't need ODD support, then don't worry about it. Now, sure, I would be upset if someone was asking Dan's Dan A4 case to include ODD support, but this is a steam/console type case.

As for the Blu-Ray player software, there are a number of solutions. Cyberlink and ArcSoft Total Media Theater also have software that handles Blu-Rays. If you don't want to pay, Leawo exists as a free alternative.

For what it's worth, I'm not really in the market for another new case (backed the Sentry and I have a A4-SFX now - after ditching my Silverstone ML07 which did have optical support), but I thought the same thing, that having a Blu-ray drive built into the PC would be great... until I tried any of the PC software for it, which is all universally terrible. You're honestly better off remuxing to another format and playing things that way. Or using any other device (standalone player or a game console) as a Blu-ray player. I personally migrated my Blu-ray drive to my server and only use it for ripping - not direct playback anymore.
 
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This is random, but I expect some people will try to shift the PSU over to the motherboard side to fit a long graphics card. Aside from impairing proper airflow, restricting PSU intake, and having the PSU then dump heat onto the GPU, a long card with 2-3 fans will have more intake power than the 2 120x15mm fans, so it may actually end up intaking unfiltered air from the exhaust vent. In other words, lots of problems... It would be fun to see a mod like this, but not worth it IMO.
 
Never implied that it had to be DC-DC only ;) But I guess that with a DC-DC psu you could support longer gpu, correct? Or more drives?

Totally, with the AC-DC brick + DC-ATX setup, you should be able to fit Zotac's 1080 Mini. You'd need to consider the 300W limitation, however. With just the DC-ATX and an external brick, there should be enough room for a full-length graphics card, though then you'd need a place to mount the 19V plug, which requires a more serious mod than just using velcro/double sided tape.

I think offering different front panels will pretty much make everyone happy on the ODD issue.
Completely agree with your points on DC-DC. Perhaps it doesn't make sense to include mounting holes for HDPlex since it's not a standard and they may change their designs in the future. I hadn't thought of that. That being said, if I get this case I am 100% going to install the HDPlex 300W internal brick with their 300W DC-ATX board. Will probably use a strip or two of strong double sided tape for the brick and velcro for the DC-ATX. I think 300W will be enough for 90% of builders in this case and having a totally passive unit, especially with the case's excellent airflow, will be very tempting.

Hi Necere this case is good by its concept. For those who is not looking for putting in a GTX 1080 it would be surely the hit.

As you have mentioned, the major problem here is the PSU. Other than the fan noise, another problem is the cable arrange in most FLEX PSU in the market seems long and hard to fit in a small case.

If possible, it would be good to have a customised FLEX PSU with a) fan with lower noise, and b) cable with a shorter length.


We have been working on the 1080 Mini / 1080 TI Mini setup for this case.

Basically, while the case *will support ODD, if you don't install the ODD (remove the ODD bracket too). The Zotac 1080 Mini, HD Plex 300W AC-DC + DC-ATX *might all fit inside the case. Both Necere and I don't like external power bricks, so we don't want people to deal with that.

Plus, we have a 1080 now, to go down to a 1070 just feels sacrilegious.

Necere will show the pictures once the tweaks are hashed out.
 
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We have been working on the 1080 / 1080 Mini setup for this case.

Basically, while the case *will support ODD, if you don't install the ODD (remove the ODD bracket too). The Zotac 1080 Mini, HD Plex 300W AC-DC brick + DC-ATX *might all fit. Both Necere and I don't like external power bricks, so we don't want people to deal with that.

Plus, we have a 1080 now, to go down to a 1070 just feels sacrilegious.


Necere will show the pictures once the tweaks are hashed out.

Since you don't like external power bricks, does this mean you are redesigning the case?
 
We have been working on the 1080 / 1080 Mini setup for this case.

Basically, while the case *will support ODD, if you don't install the ODD (remove the ODD bracket too). The Zotac 1080 Mini, HD Plex 300W AC-DC + DC-ATX *might all fit inside the case. Both Necere and I don't like external power bricks, so we don't want people to deal with that.

Plus, we have a 1080 now, to go down to a 1070 just feels sacrilegious.

Necere will show the pictures once the tweaks are hashed out.

attachment.php
 
Great, I love the added flexibility! By the way, HDPlex DC-ATX units come with (or you can request) a C14 AC plug window-to-DC-in adaptor plate (think the M1's version plate, but with a hole in it), so if you can install an HDPlex board, you can use an external brick. I don't see why anyone would since as wahaha360 said, a 1080 will be possible with a totally internal solution. And you couldn't possibly power more than a 1080 with 300W. Even that will be a stretch. But the point is you get automatic support for an external brick with an HDPlex if for whatever reason you want to do that.

Looking forward to Necere 's update.
 
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This might be a dumb question, but has this project officially been re-activated?
 
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this isn't a popular request but I wish they had space for a full size drive. the mini drives are sooo loud and unless it's 20+ feet away it's very annoying
 
This may have already been asked and answered but will this new NCase support SFX PSUs too?
No, it will not. There isn't enough physical space within the current dimensions to support SFX. Compare this case at 280mm deep vs. the Sentry at 310mm deep, which is about as short as you can go while supporting SFX at the front of the case.

this isn't a popular request but I wish they had space for a full size drive. the mini drives are sooo loud and unless it's 20+ feet away it's very annoying
A full size 5.25" optical drive? Or a 3.5" HDD? I'll assume the former, since in my experience 2.5" HDDs are very quiet.

A 5.25" drive would take up a huge amount of internal space, and would necessitate a big increase in volume if you want to keep GPU support. If you want a 5.25" drive, you're really in the market for a much bigger case. That leads me into something I want to bring up though...


On the subject of optical drive support

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like I can make both optical drive and internal HDPLEX support work. Optical drive support in general is complicated and messy, due to the crappy locations of the M2 screw holes on slim optical drives. Trying to work out flexible mounting options that allow for an optical drive and either a flex PSU or internal HDPLEX PSU is proving to be a lot of trouble, and honestly I'd rather just drop optical support altogether. But I would like your opinion on it, so:

Poll: Which do you prefer, internal HDPLEX or slim optical drive support?


To clarify, both options support a Flex PSU by default. The advantage with the HDPLEX option are 1.) the PSU is passive (no fan), and 2.) +40mm GPU length, allowing for e.g., the Zotac GTX 1080 at 211mm.
 
No, it will not. There isn't enough physical space within the current dimensions to support SFX. Compare this case at 280mm deep vs. the Sentry at 310mm deep, which is about as short as you can go while supporting SFX at the front of the case.

A full size 5.25" optical drive? Or a 3.5" HDD? I'll assume the former, since in my experience 2.5" HDDs are very quiet.

A 5.25" drive would take up a huge amount of internal space, and would necessitate a big increase in volume if you want to keep GPU support. If you want a 5.25" drive, you're really in the market for a much bigger case. That leads me into something I want to bring up though...


On the subject of optical drive support

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like I can make both optical drive and internal HDPLEX support work. Optical drive support in general is complicated and messy, due to the crappy locations of the M2 screw holes on slim optical drives. Trying to work out flexible mounting options that allow for an optical drive and either a flex PSU or internal HDPLEX PSU is proving to be a lot of trouble, and honestly I'd rather just drop optical support altogether. But I would like your opinion on it, so:

Poll: Which do you prefer, internal HDPLEX or slim optical drive support?


To clarify, both options support a Flex PSU by default. The advantage with the HDPLEX option are 1.) the PSU is passive (no fan), and 2.) +40mm GPU length, allowing for e.g., the Zotac GTX 1080 at 211mm.

Poll?

There is no competition here. HDPLEX hands-down. IMO it is a perfect fit for this project (because being passive, the airflow that the fans will provide will make it operate better), and the fact that it allows more powerful hardware makes it even better.

The ODD as an idea was good, but never at the cost of HDPLEX support.

---

With that said, though... wouldn't you have enough space for an ODD if...

a) No gpu was used.

b) a HDPLEX psu was used.

I know that I am a pain in the ass. And an asshole sometimes, though in this particular instance the ODD has 0 interest for me, but I know that it does for others, and maybe a few small modifications (on the inside) allow more people to find this design useful and, ultimately, less production price for everybody. Just food for thought.
 
Not quite sure why there should be an option for the optical drive.

The only real use I can think of would be for a blue-ray drive, but for those who would mount it, they are not likely to see your post in Hardforum after all.
 
hi guys,

v1 buyer here, lost my old account.


please for the love of god ignore everyone who utters "include ODD".


you're selling a design. not a "htpc".


People who are buying this design arent playing blu ray discs.
 
No, it will not. There isn't enough physical space within the current dimensions to support SFX. Compare this case at 280mm deep vs. the Sentry at 310mm deep, which is about as short as you can go while supporting SFX at the front of the case.

A full size 5.25" optical drive? Or a 3.5" HDD? I'll assume the former, since in my experience 2.5" HDDs are very quiet.

A 5.25" drive would take up a huge amount of internal space, and would necessitate a big increase in volume if you want to keep GPU support. If you want a 5.25" drive, you're really in the market for a much bigger case. That leads me into something I want to bring up though...


On the subject of optical drive support

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like I can make both optical drive and internal HDPLEX support work. Optical drive support in general is complicated and messy, due to the crappy locations of the M2 screw holes on slim optical drives. Trying to work out flexible mounting options that allow for an optical drive and either a flex PSU or internal HDPLEX PSU is proving to be a lot of trouble, and honestly I'd rather just drop optical support altogether. But I would like your opinion on it, so:

Poll: Which do you prefer, internal HDPLEX or slim optical drive support?


To clarify, both options support a Flex PSU by default. The advantage with the HDPLEX option are 1.) the PSU is passive (no fan), and 2.) +40mm GPU length, allowing for e.g., the Zotac GTX 1080 at 211mm.

Regarding the optical drive, it's make sense not to include it. :cool:
 
hi guys,

v1 buyer here, lost my old account.


please for the love of god ignore everyone who utters "include ODD".


you're selling a design. not a "htpc".


People who are buying this design arent playing blu ray discs.

Agreed.

Supporting the current Zotac GTX 1080 Mini, and future 1080 and 1080 TI mini is far more important than ODD support.
 
If you really want ODD support, just get a USB external one. The apple one for example, while overpriced, would blend in perfectly if put on top of the case in a silver design. There are plenty on amazon to choose from as well.
 
Is there an update on the timeline for this? Would this go back on Kickstarter or would you take pre-orders from your website? I'm looking at building another computer soon and would like to keep the next case in the Ncase family.
 
Does the front audio port support both headphone and microphones so we can connect in with a gaming headset with a trrs splitter? Thanks!
 
Necere Really like the case layout. How can you accurately anticipate the airflow like you have?
Well, the air has essentially only one way in and one way out, so it's not difficult to determine that if you put fans blowing in, it's going to go out the only way it can. Exactly how it moves through and around the internal components is much more complicated to accurately determine, but the overall movement of airflow is straightforward.

Is there an update on the timeline for this?
Not yet.

Does the front audio port support both headphone and microphones so we can connect in with a gaming headset with a trrs splitter? Thanks!
That's what I'd like to do, but I don't know yet if there are any technical hurdles will get in the way.
 
A ~120x280mm stand is still a significant reduction compared to the M1's 160x328mm footprint.

I'm more interested in figuring out ways to intelligently direct airflow through a case in order to optimize cooling performance, with the added benefit of keeping dust out.

How I look at the case: Cool air is coming in from the top, pushing warm air towards the sides. That warm air will be picked up by the GPU?
Is there any sort of "modeling software" that can simulate airflow?
 
How I look at the case: Cool air is coming in from the top, pushing warm air towards the sides. That warm air will be picked up by the GPU?
Sure, the GPU will be getting air that's been warmed slightly by the CPU. That's not a huge deal in a case like this though, where you're going to be limited to lower TDP CPUs due to the heatsink size restriction. Certainly it's far better having the GPU get the exhaust from the CPU than the reverse.

Is there any sort of "modeling software" that can simulate airflow?
You can do CFD analysis, but how valid those results are depends on how accurately you model things. Imagine modeling not just the system fans and chassis, but the GPU w/fan(s), PSU w/fan, motherboard, cables, etc., all with accurate airflow characteristics and heat dissipation. If you have those complete models ready to go, then it would be pretty straightforward. Doing all that modeling is a big undertaking itself though, and I'm not sure any case companies really take it to that level. I'm sure e.g. Apple does, with their multi-million dollar development budgets and teams of engineers, but I think for most smaller companies it's probably easier to approximate during design and test with prototypes.
 
Necere Have you given up the idea of having a divider partition between the GPU+ CPU as seen in the previous prototype ?
 
How I look at the case: Cool air is coming in from the top, pushing warm air towards the sides. That warm air will be picked up by the GPU?
Is there any sort of "modeling software" that can simulate airflow?

Only testing the prototype will give us answers.

There may be enough room for 60mm fans on the sided the case, parallel to the GPU, so we will test and see if multiple 60mm exhaust fans on the side will improve the temps in a material way.
 
Necere Have you given up the idea of having a divider partition between the GPU+ CPU as seen in the previous prototype ?
They're fundamentally different designs, airflow-wise. The airflow in the PCX (working name for this new design) comes in at a single point, and exits at a single point, whereas the GPU and CPU/PSU in the LRPC were compartmentalized and each had their own airflow path:

YgNHIMA.png


The essential problem with the LRPC design was that it relied solely on the GPU's own fans to move air through its side, which didn't end up working that well, especially with filters on the intake.
 
Ah pity. Be interesting how the results would be with a modern GPU on the LRPC layout. If I recall you were using a 250W gpu. But I guess it makes sense that it didn't go as planned. If you look at the Node 202, which has a similar layout, that thing is horrible with airflow.
 
They're fundamentally different designs, airflow-wise. The airflow in the PCX (working name for this new design) comes in at a single point, and exits at a single point, whereas the GPU and CPU/PSU in the LRPC were compartmentalized and each had their own airflow path:

YgNHIMA.png


The essential problem with the LRPC design was that it relied solely on the GPU's own fans to move air through its side, which didn't end up working that well, especially with filters on the intake.

I thought about something similar recently with SFX until i figured out that people will want to take powerful PSU just for headroom and that might end up pretty bad with semi-passive power supplies when they have a lot of headroom. That's of course if whole airflow is designed around the pushing the air through PSU.

You're fixing this on one hand by adding a fan that enforces the airflow through the PSU, but on the other hand you could use SFX and place an internal 60~70mm fan at SFX's exhaust, don't you think?
 
Ah pity. Be interesting how the results would be with a modern GPU on the LRPC layout. If I recall you were using a 250W gpu. But I guess it makes sense that it didn't go as planned. If you look at the Node 202, which has a similar layout, that thing is horrible with airflow.

This layout could potentially fit a 10.5" 1080TI / Titan XP (internal PSU).

We can compare the temps to the original LRPC and see which has better temps/airflow.
 
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I thought about something similar recently with SFX until i figured out that people will want to take powerful PSU just for headroom and that might end up pretty bad with semi-passive power supplies when they have a lot of headroom. That's of course if whole airflow is designed around the pushing the air through PSU.

You're fixing this on one hand by adding a fan that enforces the airflow through the PSU, but on the other hand you could use SFX and place an internal 60~70mm fan at SFX's exhaust, don't you think?
I'm using flex here for the space savings it affords vs. SFX. I don't really see much need for a fan assist for SFX, and I think the optimal console-style form factor layout using SFX is the layout used in the Node 202 and RVZ02. Not that those cases are perfect, but fundamentally I think that layout is about as good as it's going to get using SFX.

This layout could potentially fit a 10.5" 1080TI / Titan XP (internal PSU).

We can compare the temps to the original LRPC and see which has better temps/airflow.
Well, let's not get ahead of ourselves. This layout can't fit a 10.5" GPU. I did show w360 an alternative layout yesterday that could, in theory, support a 10.5" GPU in the same dimensions as the PCX. Whether it's actually a good idea is a different story.
 
I'm using flex here for the space savings it affords vs. SFX. I don't really see much need for a fan assist for SFX, and I think the optimal console-style form factor layout using SFX is the layout used in the Node 202 and RVZ02. Not that those cases are perfect, but fundamentally I think that layout is about as good as it's going to get using SFX.

I can see my mistake now. I read this image wrong thinking you've moved PSU to the motherboard side, sorry.

Anyway my idea was that you could swap the places of PSU and drives, replace the Flex with SFX that would be pushing the air to the inside according to your planned route and add smaller fan pulling the air out of the SFX in case it was working passively at that moment. One of your top fans would be removed obviously because of the SFX.
 
I wouldn't mind a wider case. Why not put the psu between the GPU and motherboard? I think this would be a great idea to let users put a monitor on top of the case.
 
This may already have been answered, but why dont you just flip the GPU so it sucks air from the top instead? that would allow for smaller feet too.

SZAYgQ2.png


Also I would not buy this case if it has components outside the case, I hate powerbricks.
 
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