The next NCASE project: a Steam Machine-style case (indeterminate)

Screes said:
There are some people (myself included) who think this case is already too big as is. I personally want the 7 liter enclosure valve showed off as a prototype, and i'll just figure out how to make custom cabling to fit in hardware.
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Well, there's Saper's project if you're looking for something smaller. Valve's prototype design isn't suited to a commercial case, though, due to the customized parts that require very specific hardware. Sold as a pre-built Steam Machine, sure. But as a standalone case, it needs to be more flexible to allow for a wider array of components.

I also want the case to be easy to live with; there's little point to a system as small as an Xbox if it sounds like a datavac while it's running. That's an exaggeration, but noise is important, and making things quieter necessarily requires more space.

Aesthetics are another concern of mine, and that has its own size cost associated with it. If you don't care about screws being visible all over the outside of the case, you can skip the tool-less latches and save a few mm in each dimension.
 
Necere said:
But as a standalone case, it needs to be more flexible to allow for a wider array of components.
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Need, no... But i can see why you would prefer it to be more flexible. I personally think the original 7L enclosure was plenty flexible enough. You could put any itx motherboard in it, with any sfx psu, with any graphics card length. That's all the flexibility i need.

I don't mind needing to create specialized cabling, or using an M.2 SSD for storage, or having to use a graphics card that adheres to pci height limitations.

You can make it quiet if you know how to think outside the box, and don't go crazy with high TDP equipment.
 
Screes said:
Need, no... But i can see why you would prefer it to be more flexible. I personally think the original 7L enclosure was plenty flexible enough. You could put any itx motherboard in it, with any sfx psu, with any graphics card length. That's all the flexibility i need.
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Actually, the plastic ducting in the Steam Machine prototype limits GPU length to 10.5", and the custom backplate limits you to cards with that specific port layout. The ducting would also make it work rather poorly with anything other than reference blower cards. If you use a motherboard with a different socket location, the CPU cooler will be partially/mostly blocked by the plastic cover that holds the drives. You can't use an SFX PSU other than Silverstone's ST45SF-G or SX600-G, again because of the plastic ducting. Would you be okay with a case that had such strict hardware limitations? That might not be possible to upgrade in the future because the hardware has changed and is no longer compatible?
 
Necere said:
Actually, the plastic ducting in the Steam Machine prototype limits GPU length to 10.5", and the custom backplate limits you to cards with that specific port layout. The ducting would also make it work rather poorly with anything other than reference blower cards. If you use a motherboard with a different socket location, the CPU cooler will be partially/mostly blocked by the plastic cover that holds the drives. You can't use an SFX PSU other than Silverstone's ST45SF-G or SX600-G, again because of the plastic ducting. Would you be okay with a case that had such strict hardware limitations? That might not be possible to upgrade in the future because the hardware has changed and is no longer compatible?
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I'm fine with a 10.5" gpu length limitation. That's plenty of space for the vast majority of graphics cards on the market.

Looking at the back of the steam machine prototype, it looks like they just have an empty double width opening for the graphics card, which doesn't seem to be custom for any types of ports.

Ducting can be modded and/or removed, which resolves most of the other issues you've listed. In fact i'd prefer you just ship it without the ducting, i can easily make ducting myself if i need it.

Yes i'm fine with all the limitations you have listed.

The ONLY thing i didn't like about the original steam machine prototype was that funky looking circle of lights on the front. Take that off, gut the ducts and sell me that case. It's as close to perfection in a case I've ever seen.
 
The Valve boxes use custom IO brackets on the GPU so the retention tabs don't run into the motherboard IO: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Steam+Machine+Teardown/20473#s56413

You may be fine creating/modifying ducting but not everyone will and that gets into the MOQ issue. If the case requires too much custom modifications to make it workable that cuts down the number of buyers, possibly to the point where it's not cost-effective to manufacture.
 
You can see the custom PCI bracket in this pic. About 20mm has been cut off the bottom compared to the stock bracket, which allows them to put the GPU closer to the I/O shield. Otherwise you have a situation where the bracket overlaps. The custom bracket also eliminates the tab that sticks out the back, which has mounting implications.

Moreover, the Steam Machine uses custom right-angled PCI power connectors, which would again limit PSU choice.

Shipping a case that requires a bunch of custom fabrication on the part of the user to function makes zero sense, frankly. May as well just release plans for the whole case and let people build the entire thing themselves at that point.
 
Necere said:
You can see the custom PCI bracket in this pic. About 20mm has been cut off the bottom compared to the stock bracket, which allows them to put the GPU closer to the I/O shield. Otherwise you have a situation where the bracket overlaps. The custom bracket also eliminates the tab that sticks out the back, which has mounting implications.

Moreover, the Steam Machine uses custom right-angled PCI power connectors, which would again limit PSU choice.

Shipping a case that requires a bunch of custom fabrication on the part of the user to function makes zero sense, frankly. May as well just release plans for the whole case and let people build the entire thing themselves at that point.
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They cut the tabs off the pci bracket, thats pretty easy to do with some tin snips.

Yea it needs some custom cabling, i'm aware. It's not a huge issue.

You tell me how i can build the entire thing myself and i would.
 
Screes said:
You tell me how i can build the entire thing myself and i would.
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Maybe you should ask Valve about it. They said they were going to release the plans, but never did. Anyway, that's not what this project is about. The purpose is to design a case that is similar to Valve's prototype, but which can be easily built by a regular user with a wide variety of off the shelf hardware. Anything requiring custom fabrication or cutting up GPU brackets to get them to fit is not reasonable, and not what we're doing.
 
Necere said:
Maybe you should ask Valve about it. They said they were going to release the plans, but never did. Anyway, that's not what this project is about. The purpose is to design a case that is similar to Valve's prototype, but which can be easily built by a regular user with a wide variety of off the shelf hardware. Anything requiring custom fabrication or cutting up GPU brackets to get them to fit is not reasonable, and not what we're doing.
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Yea i have a feeling Valve's launch partners pressured them to not release it, cause they want people buying their hardware and not building it themselves.
 
Necere said:
From a design perspective, a flex riser is probably the best option. It saves space and allows for more flexibility in solving some issues.
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Aren't fixed risers more reliable than flex ones? Silverstone and SteamBox use non-flex risers, maybe for a reason. Or maybe they are cheaper? I don't know, that's why i'm asking.
 
It's obvious that fixed risers are more reliable. SteamBox used one to show how it could be done and from using custom card bracket you can think of it like prototype only.

As for the silverstone I'd bid on the card installation method to be the reason for the flex card - They give you the whole customized bracket to attach your card to and then you have to plug the whole thing into the case and the motherboard.

For the price I'd say fixed riser's are more expensive, but not much if we talk about mass production.

I think the proper way to do this should be flexible riser with 3-5 cm ribbon that is protected by some rubber which won't let the ribbon to bend to much. Just up to 90 degrees with nice even bend.
 
Screes said:
Yea i have a feeling Valve's launch partners pressured them to not release it, cause they want people buying their hardware and not building it themselves.
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Quite a few brands make a good amount of money by just building and selling regular PCs, and plans for those aren't even needed in the slightest.
The number of people that are in the market for a retail, pre-assembled Steambox AND are in the market for a case that allows you to build one yourself (or would even build one themselves if they had plans for it), is probably not very high.
I doubt< that really was the reason why valve didn't release any plans.

As for the flexible risers, there is a company called Li Heat, based in Taiwan. They seem to offer cutom length flexible shielded risers with left, right and no angle receptables.
http://liheat.com.tw/ (No English on that site)
http://yawacu.blogspot.tw/2014/09/pci-e-gen-30-cable-custom-instructions.html (blog, very bad English)
http://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1407425 (German review on various risers from them)
The products seem to be of quite good quality, the only problem could be correspondence, it looks like everything English text from them comes straight from google translate.
 
iFreilicht said:
Quite a few brands make a good amount of money by just building and selling regular PCs, and plans for those aren't even needed in the slightest.
The number of people that are in the market for a retail, pre-assembled Steambox AND are in the market for a case that allows you to build one yourself (or would even build one themselves if they had plans for it), is probably not very high.
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Most of the demand these days is created artificially. Trends and hypes rule the (first) world and with the right marketing a product can become in demand. But look at the amount of popularity the still-underground Ncase M1 has garnered. I've seen someone mention it on Guru3D on a comment on an mITX board like there was no other way to fly. All it takes is some momentum and suddenly everyone will wonder how they ever lived without a Steambox :)
 
How about just build the case already so I can buy it and not have to look at this thread anymore, thanks.
 
Lakai129 said:
How about just build the case already so I can buy it and not have to look at this thread anymore, thanks.
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Patience, padawan. This will most likely take quite a long time, as is usual with this kind of project.
 
Lakai129 said:
How about just build the case already so I can buy it and not have to look at this thread anymore, thanks.
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If it ever gets to the indiegogo stage, you can place the top tier contribution and get the prototype version for yourself before anyone else.
 
I always appreciated Digital Storm's design for AIO support in the Bolt II, however, the Bolt II is 3.572 L larger than NCASE concept. I also don't know how the bracket alone would complicate a hoi poloi's attempt at fabricating such a case.



Necere said:
but most of the commercial 'slim gaming towers' that it's spawned (Silverstone RVZ01, Digital Storm Bolt II, etc.) have been more than twice as large in order to accommodate 3.5" drives, an optical drive, watercooling, and so forth. Ultimately, I decided I wanted to take the road less traveled, so to speak, and aim for a pared down design that condensed the essential elements of a performance gaming PC into a living room-friendly package that is as small as reasonably possible.
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Oh... I must have read over this. Nonetheless, I wish there was a larger community for 'open source' case designs where I would be allowed to fabricate my own case rather than spend upwards of $3k for the same thing.
 
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Wondering if the NCASE LRPC had anything to do with this sentiment..

Also during our interview, Wasielewski said the term "Steam Machine" no longer means much of anything. "I think that's kind of pretty much dead," he said of the term Steam Machine. "It's like a living room PC--is now the new term. Living room PCs have been around forever. That's not anything new either. But it seems like there's a legitimate demand and push for living room PCs." - Kevin Wasielewski, Origin CEO
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Steam Machines are dead, long live the LRPC ;)
 
Yambag said:
I always appreciated Digital Storm's design for AIO support in the Bolt II, however, the Bolt II is 3.572 L larger than NCASE concept. I also don't know how the bracket alone would complicate a hoi poloi's attempt at fabricating such a case.
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The Bolt II is actually 16.7L, or about 80% larger by volume. There really isn't any room in a sub-10L case for much of anything else, believe me.

AFD said:
Wondering if the NCASE LRPC had anything to do with this sentiment..




Steam Machines are dead, long live the LRPC ;)
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We've been using the term "LRPC" to refer to this project as far back as November 2013, and it's a just something I came up with that was more general than "Steam Machine," and to distinguish it from an HTPC. Doing a search on the term turns up some earlier instances of its use, all the way back to 2005, though it seems to be (unsurprisingly) still more focused on physical media and more HTPC-like than the current concept.
 
I was going to get a raven, but I don't want a full size gpu. It wouldn't make sense to waste the extra space. I want a vertical case to go behind my monitor. 1 gpu, 1 SSD, 1 slim optical drive and a silverstone 450 sfx psu. I might just make a ghetto frame until this happens.
 
strikeout said:
I was going to get a raven, but I don't want a full size gpu. It wouldn't make sense to waste the extra space. I want a vertical case to go behind my monitor. 1 gpu, 1 SSD, 1 slim optical drive and a silverstone 450 sfx psu. I might just make a ghetto frame until this happens.
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So you run into the problem of where to put the PSU. If you put it in front of the motherboard, and make a cube around the psu/motherboard/gpu you end up with this void at the front of the case which will typically allow you to put in a graphics card up to around 10 inches. If you don't want that void, cause you don't need that long of a graphics card, then you need to put the PSU someplace other than in front of the motherboard. Like above the motherboard, or below the graphics card region, but then you end up with a case that is 18+ inches tall.

And oh btw, there already exists a case like that: http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-q19/

The other way to do it is to put the PSU above the motherboard...

oh btw, that case already exists too: http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=210


The entire point of this project is to get a case that we can't readily get anywhere else right now.
 
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Well you can use the space a short GPU leaves for a few SSDs or HDDs, so I don't see a problem there.

Also, the PC-Q19 is laughably large when you just want "1 gpu, 1 SSD, 1 slim optical drive and a silverstone 450 sfx psu". There is so much space inside, it's untrue.

The SG05 is a well regarded SFF case for a good reason, but as you said, there's no point in this case being a blatant clone of it. Also the cube form factor doesn't fit into the living room very well, so it would miss its own goal at that point.
 
So Silverstone showed the RVZ02 at CES, which as it turns out, is very, very similar in terms of internal layout/component support and size to the LRPC as it currently stands. Right down to the way the chassis bends to compartmentalize the GPU inside the case. (compare: LRPC, RVZ02). The obvious differences come down to these:

  • RVZ02 has slim optical drive support, LRPC does not
  • LRPC is slightly smaller (~1/2") in height and depth
  • RVZ02 does not appear to support dust filters (windowless versions may), LRPC will
  • RVZ02 has tool-less drive installation, LRPC uses screws
  • LRPC has 100% aluminum construction
  • [Strike=]LRPC supports 60mm tall CPU coolers, RVZ02 might not[/s] Both support 60mm tall CPU coolers
  • RVZ02 has windows
  • Exterior design

Let's assume that both will be available sometime later this year. The question is, if the RVZ02 is ~$85, and the LRPC is ~$200 (plus shipping/customs, as with the M1), are the differences enough to make the LRPC a compelling product, one which you'd still purchse over the RVZ02? I'm interested in hearing your opinions.
 
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Necere said:
- snip-
The question is, if the RVZ02 is ~$85, and the LRPC is ~$200 (plus shipping/customs, as with the M1), are the differences enough to make the LRPC a compelling product, one which you'd still purchse over the RVZ02? I'm interested in hearing your opinions.
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I was (kind of still am) very interested in the RVZ02 but it does have some drawbacks that add up to be large marks against it.
  • The lack of dust filters. I can't stand not having dust filters since I live in a house that gets fairly dusty. I'd probably try to get some redneck solution to add filters, but it wouldn't look as nice and I would rather not have to deal with that in the first place.
  • The disk drive support. I know that there are people on the forum who really want the support but I don't. I value space saving and longer GPU support over that feature. (I'm not trying to start an argument. There are valid reasons for wanting the support; I personally don't have a need for one though.)
  • The overall construction. I find the plastic and steel construction to be unappealing since I'm looking for a case which reflects the quality of the components inside of it. Plastic and steel construction isn't the end of the world, but it's still undesirable.
  • The overall appearance. I find the appearance is just too aggressive for me. I find the front of the case to fall into the typical, 'gamers like really flashy designs' problem. I just want a case that grabs attention instead of screaming for it. Also the windows for the cpu and gpu look absolutely terrible.
I feel like Silverstone just kept cutting corners/making exceptions on the case and it ruined it in the end.

The bottom line is that I'm still on board for purchasing the LRPC unless it seems like I'm not going to be able to purchase one (not necessarily recieve) before Skylake comes out. The RVZ02 is definitely competition, but is more of a cheap alternative than a direct competitor in my mind.

One last thing that I might be alone on is that I like the idea of owning a case that only a small number of people will ever own. It might be kind of snobby, but I like the thought of owning a case where I can tell people that you can't just go out and buy one.
 
Necere said:
Let's assume that both will be available sometime later this year. The question is, if the RVZ02 is ~$85, and the LRPC is ~$200 (plus shipping/customs, as with the M1), are the differences enough to make the LRPC a compelling product, one which you'd still purchse over the RVZ02? I'm interested in hearing your opinions.
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If they make a version without the windows, preferably FTZ02 or an ML version without the funky raven styling, honestly i'd just buy the Silverstone one. I can live with slightly less than premium styling, as long as its not hideous, and silverstone has a long history of making hideous cases and then releasing a good looking version of the same thing later. My biggest concern has always been getting the form factor in the right size.

The window for getting in on this form factor is quickly evaporating. A year ago, everyone wanted this case, and no one was making it. That was the time to release a product and get it into customers' hands. Now we are starting to get retail options that are almost identical.

I like the work you do, and i think you make amazing looking and well thought out cases. You may still get enough people to pay for a group buy for this case, but i don't know if i will 1. wait that long, and 2. pay that kind of premium.
 
Necere said:
The question is, if the RVZ02 is ~$85, and the LRPC is ~$200 (plus shipping/customs, as with the M1), are the differences enough to make the LRPC a compelling product, one which you'd still purchse over the RVZ02? I'm interested in hearing your opinions.
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The RVZ02 and FTZ01 both look cheap and ugly imo, and the LRPC looks elegant and just a higher quality piece. I'd take aluminum Lian-Li over plastic/steel any day.

I'm really not sure if this particular form-factor is for me, but if it was, I would definitely spend the extra money for the nicer LRPC case. $200 is a reasonable price to pay for the only component in a build that you will be looking at every day, and that will outlast all the other parts in your build.
 
It's hard to judge until the FTZ02 is revealed. The FTZ01 doesn't appeal to me in the slightest and if the FTZ02 is anything like that, even at ~$100, I'd still lean towards the LRPC as is. Without that fucking ODD bay :D
 
AFD said:
The RVZ02 and FTZ01 both look cheap and ugly imo, and the LRPC looks elegant and just a higher quality piece. I'd take aluminum Lian-Li over plastic/steel any day.
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Agreed.

Plastic, especially shiny plastic, looks terrible in person.
 
Why I would pay 200$ for LRPC over 80$ silverstone:
1: That 1/2" matters
2: All aluminium
3: Simple and elegant design
4: The story. Don't underestimate the selling power of what you're doing here

I still understand why you are a bit hesitant though, since this has competition soon to hit market that is a lot closer to it than what the M1 had. On the other hand you guys have really proven yourself both regarding the design and as a supplier. First run of the M1 noone knew. The LRPC has a well reputable brand/company to help it along.
 
Necere said:
Let's assume that both will be available sometime later this year. The question is, if the RVZ02 is ~$85, and the LRPC is ~$200 (plus shipping/customs, as with the M1), are the differences enough to make the LRPC a compelling product, one which you'd still purchse over the RVZ02? I'm interested in hearing your opinions.
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If I had to choose between the two only, it will definitely be the LRPC, due to the looks.
However if there were to be a windowless FTZ02 (doesn't have to be sexy, just clean looking), I'm not too sure about still picking the LRPC.

  • RVZ02 has slim optical drive support, LRPC does not - I don't use internal optical drive but since both cases will have 80mm shortest side, So the Z02's ODD space may be enough for sticking in one or two more SSDs. However it'd be a LRPC win if the stacked 7mm SSDs are possible.
  • LRPC is slightly smaller (~1/2") in height and depth - Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the height difference like 20mm? So Z02 has more compatibility with non reference GPUs? Also I like the anti sag GPU bracket.
  • RVZ02 does not appear to support dust filters, LRPC will - External demci filters look very bad on the beautiful NCASE panels. Though from my experience with the Node304, it feels that doing the same can actually enhance the appearance of such mass produced case.
  • RVZ02 has tool-less drive installation, LRPC uses screws - I never liked tool less drive installs
  • LRPC has 100% anodized aluminum construction - win, do you know what kind of empty case weight it will be?
  • LRPC supports 60mm tall CPU coolers, RVZ02 might not (TBD) - it looks like the Z02 sample has the AR06 (58mm) installed.
  • RVZ02 has windows - do not want
  • Exterior design - again win for LRPC

I feel that if I wanted to build with reference GPU and go for small size, Saper's case would be the pick. If non reference GPU is to be used, I think I might be better off with FTZ02 assuming there will be one, it's not ugly, and it has like 20mm more GPU height allowance over the LRPC.
 
Necere said:
Let's assume that both will be available sometime later this year. The question is, if the RVZ02 is ~$85, and the LRPC is ~$200 (plus shipping/customs, as with the M1), are the differences enough to make the LRPC a compelling product, one which you'd still purchse over the RVZ02? I'm interested in hearing your opinions.
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I'm sure that there are enough people out there who want something higher-end and more sophisticated than your average slim ITX case, which is what the RVZ02 appears to be (fugly aesthetic and Steambox/LRPC-esque internal design notwithstanding.)
 
I'd put my bet on silverstone taking some feedback and making at least two versions if not only windowless one as final product. When that happens, LRPC has only the volume advantage over RVZ02 (and a bit classier look).

The only way I could see it work is if you convince and make a deal with lianli to mainstream LRPC as a competition for RVZ02
 
Necere said:
So Silverstone showed the RVZ02 at CES, which as it turns out, is very, very similar in terms of internal layout/component support and size to the LRPC as it currently stands. Right down to the way the chassis bends to compartmentalize the GPU inside the case. (compare: LRPC, RVZ02). The obvious differences come down to these:

  • RVZ02 has slim optical drive support, LRPC does not
  • LRPC is slightly smaller (~1/2") in height and depth
  • RVZ02 does not appear to support dust filters, LRPC will
  • RVZ02 has tool-less drive installation, LRPC uses screws
  • LRPC has 100% anodized aluminum construction
  • LRPC supports 60mm tall CPU coolers, RVZ02 might not (TBD)
  • RVZ02 has windows
  • Exterior design

Let's assume that both will be available sometime later this year. The question is, if the RVZ02 is ~$85, and the LRPC is ~$200 (plus shipping/customs, as with the M1), are the differences enough to make the LRPC a compelling product, one which you'd still purchse over the RVZ02? I'm interested in hearing your opinions.
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You can't compare them both. Well, of course you can but... you shouldn't. From a marketing/product analysis... the cases are completely and utterly different. I'll tell you why ;) :

a) LRPC comes from NCASE... a "company" that started on a forum. "From a nerd, to a nerd". This might not mean anything to many people... but it means a lot for some, at least for me (and I know I'm not the only one). Take it for what it is: NCASE has ideas and inspiration from many people and, thus, it has many "co-owners". Of course we don't own shit, but you get the idea ;) One could also say that we have the cases today because we wanted them (and you wanted to make them), but you don't get this "bond" (yes, I'm very romantic regarding a few things :D ) on any other project. Not even on very custom products (hi there mech keyboards xD).

b) Lian Li quality without Lian Li "questionable" interior designs. 'nuff said :)

c) Best possible functional design. Or, at least, one can understand the choices that were made, and why.

d) One can piss off the creators :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

e) Full alu, and completely anodized. Not "outside anodized but raw inside" crap that we have every day.

f) Not awfully shitty mistakes nor retarded compromises. There is a clear direction, and logic applied to it all.

g) (beautiful. This one is subjective, and thus why I have it like this)

h) Sense of uniqueness. Not in the "bragging because I'm dumb" way, but in the "I like unconventional things, and I'm proud of it".

I) Price is not as expensive if you factor who fabs it, and try to find comparable products. So, all the things I mention come extremely cheap. And keep in mind I'm from Europe... I had to fork more than $300 for my M1 V1 once taxes and all were accounted. And even at that price the M1 wasn't unreasonable at all. Of course, its expensive if you don't value it... but if you don't value it you will never buy a $150 full alu case, so that sort of thinking implies not being a potential customer and you shouldn't care for their thoughts.


But I'll also tell you something more: I have no need for another case, and I'm sure that it will be a pain in the butt to mount, and my M1 is borderline too small for my needs but... I'll buy an LRPC if it ever gets released.

Yes, the project itself is good enough (and not as expensive; try to value that the RVZ02 "might" be similar... but it will be plasticky :rolleyes: and thus the price comparison makes no sense) that it has my interest, and my hard earned coin.

And I'm sure many people will follow suit.

Heck, ask yourself something:

How many cases you expected to sell the first time the M1 went on indiegogo to fund the final cases (not the initial funding for the prototype)? How many cases have you sold, as per today?

I'm sure your estimates were pretty much blown... but, and this one is important, keep in mind that NCASE, as of today, is a respected company because... you DELIVERED the FIRST TIME YOU TRIED. I'm sure many people didn't join the V1 because they felt there were many risks involved (and they were, one has only to check many other crowdfunded projects to see how it works out sometimes...), or they didn't even know the project or many, many other things.

So, I can't predict how many units you would be able to sell of the LRPC compared to the M1... but I'd expect to sell at least half without any sort of problems (accounting for V1, V2 and V3, that is).

In the end... $200 for something that will sit on top of your desktop, that you (and others) will see every day, that is perfectly functional, well build, well thought and...? How the heck is that expensive for an enthusiasts that values the computer he has and uses every day? Is it okay to spend lots of coin on shoes, clothes or many other things that lasts for a fraction of what a case will?

Damn, my keyboard is more expensive than that, and so are my headphones and half the other stuff I use with my computer but... so what? :D Unconventional FTW :D :D

PS: hey, I'll give you an idea. If you want to know how successful your LRPC would be... I suggest you run a survey on the demographics that you know are potential customers (aka people that understand the value implied on the project). How the heck you do that? Well... you have all your M1 customers. Ask (us) them! :D A simple email describing the project, its state and a few other things, along a price estimate would do. I doubt people will have problems returning an answer.
 
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SaperPL said:
I'd put my bet on silverstone taking some feedback and making at least two versions if not only windowless one as final product. When that happens, LRPC has only the volume advantage over RVZ02 (and a bit classier look).

The only way I could see it work is if you convince and make a deal with lianli to mainstream LRPC as a competition for RVZ02
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"A bit classier look"? They look completely different. It's like saying a Toyota looks like a Lamborghini because they're both cars. People pay silly money for premium products. $200 for a high-end pc case is nothing, especially when the components going in to it cost many times more. Lots of people spend thousands on PC's and hundreds more on nice-looking pieces of furniture to sit them on. They buy $500 monitors, $500 processors, Countless thousands buy $60 mice. They spend hundreds of dollars on smartphones and designer clothes. Apple is one of the biggest computer vendors in the world and every year sells millions of very expensive, over-priced computers because they look nice and because of the brand. I'd imagine that most of the hypothetical LRPC'S sold will be hypothetically sat next to or underneath very expensive large screen TV's. You think there isn't at least a few hundred people in the world who aren't willing to cheap out on a PC case of this form factor or who actually want a high-end case like the LRPC in the first place, regardless of the cost?

Never underestimate people's desire for having the best and being willing to pay the going rate for it.;)
 
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Umm, yeah, a bit classier look in comparison to possibly windowless RVZ02 version which imho would look nice and classy enough for its price.

daavee said:
Never underestimate people's desire for having the best and being willing to pay the going rate for it.;)
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Yeah, that's a different thing and you're right.
 
SaperPL said:
I'd put my bet on silverstone taking some feedback and making at least two versions if not only windowless one as final product. When that happens, LRPC has only the volume advantage over RVZ02 (and a bit classier look).

The only way I could see it work is if you convince and make a deal with lianli to mainstream LRPC as a competition for RVZ02
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I disagree. Based on what most others, me included, are saying in the current discussion the differences are more significant than that. And that goes for your case too. There is a possibility that the Silverstone cases end up closer to your price than the LRPC, and even then many of the arguments made here about the viability of the LRPC applies to you too.

I think for SFF enthusiasts, at least here,it is more a matter of LRPC vs. Your case rather than any of you vs. Silverstone. Don't get me wrong. I like the silverstone case (minus window) but it won't make you feel special. 200$ is negligable when put into the perspective of what you actually pay for an entire system. I would rather go LRPC with a 970 than Silverstone with a 980.

It's not about bang for the bucks, its pure BANG:D
 
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Yeah, I get that - I'm well aware that both projects will have hard times competing with silverstone and my approach here is simply to be faster than LRPC and RVZ02 on the market, with $150 product that has some nice back story like LRPC.

I think we're closer to finishing our case than both dondan with his A4 and Necere's LRPC, we just had a huge lazy-December delay as stated in our topic. We're still trying to win the race :)

About the premium item idea - you're right, and LRPC fits better this concept than our case so it might work.
 
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