The next NCASE project: a Steam Machine-style case (indeterminate)

Makers of 290s recommend 700+ Watt power supplies. They do that for a reason.
FYI: I have been in IT professionally since the late 1970s, probably about the time your parents were born.
And yet still hasn't learned to look up simple facts online.

Peak power consumption of the whole system is 440W.

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And that's measured from the wall - AC current. Power supplies are rated with DC current, 440W from the wall translates to around 400W PSU requirement.
 
Please keep the thread civil.

I'm sure we can find polite ways to discuss the merits, or lack thereof, of optical drives or GPU power requirements. I do not particularly want the thread to get locked.


Just curious, how thick is the aluminum on this case? It seems like 1mm since it's 16mm from the mobo plate to the top of the IHS (Intel's socket specs are online and they list top of motherboard PCB to top of IHS along with minimum standoff height, so no this number was not from nowhere). That means 76mm along with 4mm space for materials (assuming the 80mm height). Construction seems to be a separate motherboard plate that sandwiches the frame with the back panel/bottom panel.

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041054109&postcount=111

So that's already 3mm with 1mm thick aluminum so we basically have exactly 60mm of height (16mm from motherboard tray to top of IHS has a sub-1mm tolerance. It's 6.35mm/0.25" standoffs with 1.6mm max thick PCB (0.062" according to Intel mobo spec) with LGA1150 socket + IHS being slightly below 8mm and LGA2011 being a little above 8mm. Worst case scenario is 15.95mm or so).

Just curious.
Most of the case is 1.5mm. Currently the standoffs are 3.5mm, however the cutout on the motherboard tray encompasses everywhere there's likely to be extended features on the back of the motherboard (e.g., CPU cooler backplate). The cutout allows 6.5mm of clearance to the side panel.
 
Makers of 290s recommend 700+ Watt power supplies. They do that for a reason.
There are two reasons I'm aware of that GPU manufacturers overstate power requirements:

  1. They have no way of knowing the power draw of the rest of the system; it could be an i3 and a single SSD, or it could be dual Xeons with an 12-drive raid array and as many fans. That's a huge potential difference in system power consumption.

  2. Back in the day (12+ years ago), 3.3v and 5v were more heavily used than 12v relative to now, where 12v is by far the dominant voltage. As a consequence, older power supplies tended to have 12v rails that were only designed to deliver half or less the power supplies rated wattage on 12v. E.g., an older 400W PSU might only provide 18a @ 12v, or 216W. That's not going to cut it when both the CPU and GPU need 12v. These days most power supplies are able to supply the majority of their rating on the 12v rail, but it's still possible to find cheap off-brand or older PSUs with anemic 12v delivery.

In our case, #1 isn't a concern because the case limits the type and quantity of hardware that can be installed. #2 isn't a concern either, since we're recommending specific power supplies that have known characteristics.
 
Most of the case is 1.5mm. Currently the standoffs are 3.5mm, however the cutout on the motherboard tray encompasses everywhere there's likely to be extended features on the back of the motherboard (e.g., CPU cooler backplate). The cutout allows 6.5mm of clearance to the side panel.

Awesome. So basically still in ATX/ITX spec. Neat workaround.

Is the material around I/O cutouts also 1.5mm or are those adjusted to 1.2 or 1.0mm so it also falls within spec?
 
Is the material around I/O cutouts also 1.5mm or are those adjusted to 1.2 or 1.0mm so it also falls within spec?
It's 1.5mm, just as it is on the M1. Falling 0.2mm outside the spec doesn't make a practical difference here - the I/O shield still fits fine.
 
It's 1.5mm, just as it is on the M1. Falling 0.2mm outside the spec doesn't make a practical difference here - the I/O shield still fits fine.

Alright, just checking. ;)
 
That card does not fit in this case. I don't think it will even fit in the M1.
With the power/USB outside the GPU chamber and no ODD (aka the original design) a 12" GPU like the Sapphire Tri-X card should fit just fine.

If you can get both the Sapphire Tri-X (length) and Asus DirectCU II (height) AMD R9 290 cards to fit, that's like 99th percentile of GPU size right there. Only thing larger I can think of are tri-slot monsters.
 
With the power/USB outside the GPU chamber and no ODD (aka the original design) a 12" GPU like the Sapphire Tri-X card should fit just fine.

If you can get both the Sapphire Tri-X (length) and Asus DirectCU II (height) AMD R9 290 cards to fit, that's like 99th percentile of GPU size right there. Only thing larger I can think of are tri-slot monsters.
I was looking at Asus' site earlier and the DirectCU II versions of the R9 280 and above won't fit due to height (in the LRPC or M1). The DirectCU II version of the R9 270 (and below) uses a smaller design that does fit. So it's more a question about supporting those rare long cards - like the Tri-X - that aren't also too tall to fit.
 
The Tri-X is 2.2 slots thick. Looking at the post #311 drawing, I think it might fit but the fan shroud will rub against the side panel.
 
The Tri-X is 2.2 slots thick. Looking at the post #311 drawing, I think it might fit but the fan shroud will rub against the side panel.
Indeed, I didn't notice that about the Tri-X. The GPU is intentionally close to the side panel to ensure it's able to maintain proper airflow (in from the side, out the top/back).
 
Well its still an R9 290x, so it should tell us of the approximate power draws of other R9 290xs.

Other 290Xs that do fit in this case, do not have an extra pcie 8pin power connector.
That's a 150w max gap in the approximation.
 
Well its still an R9 290x, so it should tell us of the approximate power draws of other R9 290xs.
It's a factory overclocked card, which will disproportionately increase power consumption over a stock card due to the voltage bump.

Few thousand? Try $150 or less. Modern hardware scalers in standalone players (and A/V receivers and TVs) are now so good that the $$$ high-end standalone scaler market has imploded. Why pay money for something that's no better than what's built-in to the hardware you already have? That and the standalone box is probably running FFmpeg or LAV Filters anyways, just with the benefit of ASIC acceleration.
Modern consumer hardware scalers either do nothing that an output filter can do, or make things worse. A prime example is popular Darbee line, which does little more than modify the gamma function (and not entirely pleasantly) and add a sharpening filter. Until you are buying actual professional video processing equipment with access to a HD-SDI stream, you're not going to beat a display filter operating on the output direct from the CODEC (before chroma subsampling and leveling for output over HDMI). This becomes very obvious for things like gradient de-banding where a filter can operate in 10-bit space (which provides an advantage even on 8-bit sources due to mathematical operations performed curing decoding) without adding dithering, but lower end consumer processors are limited to the 8-bit output signal (and higher end processors merely match the capabilities of output filters). Same thing with display compensation: can be done with a 3D LUT prior to output just as easily as a £1000+ dedicated box (moreso, using automated calibration).
An expensive BD player and filter box(s) can be replaced by a properly set up PC with no loss in picture quality, and often a gain. A standard ('cheap' BD players are just as good as any other BD player outside of features like Deep Colour) BD and a cheap filter will likely look worse than the standard player without the filter once it;s been set up correctly and calibrated.

It's all moot anyway, I'd rather shave off a little volume or gain a little extra room for the GPU than add an ODD slot.
 

The peaks in the high resolution (2ms sample interval) measurements of the 12V pci-e power consumption are indeed interesting, eventhough it is an overclocked gpu. I suspect that the short peak duration is the reason why no problem actually manifests with psu's that can "only" provide slightly more than the average gpu consumption. The peaks simply being within tolerance, I mean. It would be interesting to hear what a true psu specialist would say about this.
 
So points so far,
ODD interferes with GPU length,so removing it wont make the case smaller,it'll only add support for triple fan R9290X's?
Blu-Ray playback off a PC is no fun? That said,the highest capacity drive possible is 1TB (unless you want a slow one) X2,for 2TB total,which isn't a whole lot after games are accounted for.
Everyone here has awesome internet. Except me.
Still does not answer WHY id want it plugged to my TV though,Necrere?
 
Still does not answer WHY id want it plugged to my TV though,Necrere?

People tend to have a larger display in their living room than on their desk, and also more relaxed place to sit. So this case is for gaming with your friends in the living room.
 
Yeah well,not alot of offline coop/vs going on on the PC like on console. That said,is there even a TV that can benefit from a 290X Vapor X?
 
Yeah well,not alot of offline coop/vs going on on the PC like on console. That said,is there even a TV that can benefit from a 290X Vapor X?

4K Ultra HD 70" TV: $5000

Limited edition NCase steam machine with i7, Z97 and 290X VaporX : $1700

Four personally customised gaming controllers: $396

Case of Pabst Blue Ribbon: $35.95

...

The only thing your drunken friends want to play is BUTTON: priceless

:p
 
Exactly what I was looking for. Something for the living room, and I didn't want it to be my Caselabs case.
I can keep the monster PC in the office and something sleek in the living room.

No USB ports on the front if you can manage it Necere, or stealth them behind a sliding cover.
 
So points so far,
ODD interferes with GPU length,so removing it wont make the case smaller,it'll only add support for triple fan R9290X's?
From Necere's internal layout post, the ODD fits into void space above the GPU (below the PCB). However, adding ODD support displaces the PCB for the front panel switch and USB ports, which ends up at the end of the GPU space, shortening the maximum possible GPU length.
Changing the case to allow the potential for an ODD to be installed reduces maximum GPU length from 304mm to 274mm (12" to 10.8"). Once this design change is made, installing an ODD will not affect how large a GPU you can fit.
 
ODD interferes with GPU length,so removing it wont make the case smaller,it'll only add support for triple fan R9290X's?
You're correct that removing it won't make the case smaller. As far as I can tell, NO 290X will fit in the ODD version of the case. Not even the reference design, which seems to be just a hair too long.
Am I misreading something here? That card is still easily powered by an SFX power supply. We're beating a dead horse at this point.
 
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If an ODD is installed, won't it cover the hole where the pci-e power cable(s) to the graphics card are supposed to go through?
 
You're correct that removing it won't make the case smaller. As far as I can tell, NO 290X will fit in the ODD version of the case. Not even the reference design, which seems to be just a hair too long.

Am I misreading something here? That card is still easily powered by an SFX power supply. We're beating a dead horse at this point.

In the TH article the R9 290x peaks at 420+ watts (on its own).
 
A case of PBR costs you $36?! :eek:

I have no idea, I live in Europe and usually drink Palm.

I just googled to find what young, upwardly-mobile people drink in the US and saw that a 335ml bottle of that is $1.50, so a case must be $36. Maybe I found the Canadian price by accident :p
 
In the TH article the R9 290x peaks at 420+ watts (on its own).
Which leaves 180W for the rest of the system, more than enough. (And discounts the fact that other reviews were pulling ~400W from the wall with a similar setup and hundreds of people have been running their 290X on a 450W supply for some time now.)
I have no idea, I live in Europe and usually drink Palm.

I just googled to find what young, upwardly-mobile people drink in the US and saw that a 335ml bottle of that is $1.50, so a case must be $36. Maybe I found the Canadian price by accident :p
PBR is a lousy hipster beer. Young upwardly mobile people drink craft beer ;) *ducks*
 
I just googled to find what young, upwardly-mobile people drink in the US and saw that a 335ml bottle of that is $1.50, so a case must be $36. Maybe I found the Canadian price by accident :p

You were misled. The recent surge in popularity of PBR is largely a backlash against the last few years of craft beer being on the upswing in the US (and potentially a reaction against a certain type of beer snob that has come along with it). As Bobalias_LeShay points out, overpaying for PBR is an ironic, hipster thing that idiots are up to these days.
 
I've read the first few pages and skipped the rest, so I apologise if I've missed anything, but this looks really good. I have three suggestions:

Firstly, I would really, really like to see four USB ports on the front, not two, and if there could be a flip-down protector to cover them when not in use that would be very cool. Why four? Well, that's so you can have a wireless USB keyboard, a wireless USB mouse, a wireless USB gamepad, and a wireless USB headset all in use at the same time.

Secondly, I'd suggest that a case this size come with an integrated cooling solution for the CPU and an external PSU.

Thirdly, don't bother with 3.5" HDDs - save space and mandate 2.5" drives.

Again, apologies if these have already been discussed.
 
I've read the first few pages and skipped the rest, so I apologise if I've missed anything, but this looks really good. I have three suggestions:

Firstly, I would really, really like to see four USB ports on the front, not two, and if there could be a flip-down protector to cover them when not in use that would be very cool. Why four? Well, that's so you can have a wireless USB keyboard, a wireless USB mouse, a wireless USB gamepad, and a wireless USB headset all in use at the same time.

Secondly, I'd suggest that a case this size come with an integrated cooling solution for the CPU and an external PSU.

Thirdly, don't bother with 3.5" HDDs - save space and mandate 2.5" drives.

Again, apologies if these have already been discussed.

1. I can see gamepad but not the rest. The case isn't all that long and it's not too hard to reach it to the back, plug those receivers in, and forget about them forever. It's not like you're not going to get a good connection when your wireless gear is basically only a meter or two away. If there's any decrease in "performance" it'll be near nonexistent. Nothing worth fretting about.

2. Why? There are plenty of heatsinks under 60mm tall that perform well (AXP-100, NH-L9i/a, Scythe Big Shuriken, etc.). They should be able to keep a decent overclock. As for an external PSU those are pretty costly and aren't exactly the best performing, neither will they allow for the largest single GPU cards since I haven't seen one that has two 8-pins or a 6 and 8 pin. The HDPlex 250W (400W peak, which btw don't run it at peak wattage, you'll have to get a new one very soon) only has two 6-pins. Also, since they want to fit full sized GPUs, there's enough space to fit an SFX PSU so it's good use of the space created by the room necessary for a longer GPU. Besides there are very few power bricks that can handle that much wattage anyways so you're capped out at around 300W since 400W is a dangerous zone for even the highest wattage PicoPSUs I see nowadays.

3. If it can fit there's no reason not to include it. They want to appeal to a wider audience for more potential customers. If they can fit 3.5" drives but choose not to they're going to possibly turn some people off. The case is 80mm tall but there's 3 sheets of aluminum: 2 for the panels that are 1.5mm each and the 1.5mm sheet the HDD is mounted on so it's 75.5mm of leftover space for a GPU and other stuff. GPUs will take up 45mm-50mm which leaves 25.5-35.5mm of space for a HDD. 3.5" HDDs are around 26-27mm tall so one will fit for sure if they stay closer to 45mm of GPU space.
 
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I've read the first few pages and skipped the rest, so I apologise if I've missed anything, but this looks really good. I have three suggestions:

Firstly, I would really, really like to see four USB ports on the front, not two, and if there could be a flip-down protector to cover them when not in use that would be very cool. Why four? Well, that's so you can have a wireless USB keyboard, a wireless USB mouse, a wireless USB gamepad, and a wireless USB headset all in use at the same time.

Secondly, I'd suggest that a case this size come with an integrated cooling solution for the CPU and an external PSU.

Thirdly, don't bother with 3.5" HDDs - save space and mandate 2.5" drives.

Again, apologies if these have already been discussed.

1) Unlikely. Adds compltcation, cost, and sacrifices some of the little space left inside. I would suggest buying unified Logitech devices so you can use a single dongle, or use a USB hub if you are one of the few people who really require that many USB ports right up front.

2) Nope. Integrated cooling is way outside the scope of the case and impractical since CPU sockets arent always in the same spot. And external PSU is already something they're trying to work in as an additional feature, but limits you to ~300W. Since this is meant to be a full gaming rig it will definitely need to be able to handle a 450W or 600W SFX psu to run a Titan or 290X.

3) Agree fully, and I think is already pretty much decided by Necere and W360.
 
You were misled. The recent surge in popularity of PBR is largely a backlash against the last few years of craft beer being on the upswing in the US (and potentially a reaction against a certain type of beer snob that has come along with it). As Bobalias_LeShay points out, overpaying for PBR is an ironic, hipster thing that idiots are up to these days.

That's the craziest thing I ever heard, so I Googled it and damn...there's actually science to support it!

Glad I'm a beer snob and won't drink anything less than Sam Adams (my idea of a "cheap wannabe craft beer"). That's my fallback when I go to a party where I know they'll all be drinking horse piss.
 
I'd suggest that a case this size come with an integrated cooling solution for the CPU and an external PSU.

Thirdly, don't bother with 3.5" HDDs - save space and mandate 2.5" drives.

Has there been any discussion as to which CPU coolers will potentially fit this case?

I'm guessing around L9 territory, or is that still too tall?


Yeah, I don't see 3.5" drives fitting, but it would be really cool if it could actually fit one.. or at least 2x 2.5" drives (or possibly even 3x, if using a short GPU).

1x 2.5" SSD and 1x 2.5" 2TB Spinpoint (9.5mm) would be a nice alternative for some (rather than using m2/mSATA + mechanical, hybrid 2.5" or large capacity SSD).
 
Has there been any discussion as to which CPU coolers will potentially fit this case?

I'm guessing around L9 territory, or is that still too tall?


Yeah, I don't see 3.5" drives fitting, but it would be really cool if it could actually fit one.. or at least 2x 2.5" drives (or possibly even 3x, if using a short GPU).

1x 2.5" SSD and 1x 2.5" 2TB Spinpoint (9.5mm) would be a nice alternative for some (rather than using m2/mSATA + mechanical, hybrid 2.5" or large capacity SSD).

AXP-100 and Scythe Big Shuriken will both fit and they are phenomenal coolers for the size. They should be able to keep a decent overclock. The L9i/a will work to cool an i7 (there are a few tests out there).

And if you use an ITX-sized GPU (170mm or less) you can use a AIO-WC unit so long as the radiator is thin enough so no big problems there.
 
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AXP-100 and Scythe Big Shuriken will both fit and they are phenomenal coolers for the size. They should be able to keep a decent overclock. The L9i/a will work to cool an i7 (there are a few tests out there).

Nice, thanks! Then a Prolimatch Samuel 17 (45mm tall) with a 120x120x25 fan should also fit, though I think I'd opt for the beefier AXP-100.
 
AXP-100 and Scythe Big Shuriken will both fit and they are phenomenal coolers for the size. They should be able to keep a decent overclock. The L9i/a will work to cool an i7 (there are a few tests out there).

And if you use an ITX-sized PSU (170mm or less) you can use a AIO-WC unit so long as the radiator is thin enough so no big problems there.

I think you mean ITX sized GPU.
 
I'm really hoping that some more low profile coolers will come out in the next year as well since SFF cases are growing in popularity. I'm curious how well coolers like the AXP-100 will work when they are close to the side panel (I know there are holes, but won't the performance be somewhat hindered?)
 
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