The next NCASE project: a Steam Machine-style case (indeterminate)

So, about ODD support. I'm sympathetic to those for whom it's a desired, or even needed feature, so I thought I ought to at least make an honest effort at a solution. I also can't ignore that fact that M1 orders were more than two to one in favor of an ODD slot.

So here's what I did: the power button and front USB got moved over out in front of the GPU, while a slim ODD occupies that area + the first 2.5" mount. A 2.5" on top of the ODD might still be possible. The major con is that maximum GPU length is reduced somewhat, to about 10.8", maybe 11". There's also a bit less room for cables with an ODD installed, naturally. Keep in mind there are no changes to the dimensions of the case.

Aesthetics are subjective, so I'll let you decide if the change is for better or worse:
*snip*
What a possible no-ODD version would look like:
*snip*
thanks for at least taking time to give it a try. Just a few questions on the new layout.
How certain would a SSD on top of the ODD be,is there a bracket for that?
How hard would it be to move the usb to the side?(top when case is vertical,the thin panels side)
Is it possible to use the old design with no interference on the gpu as the no odd version or is it a must the two designs match save the slot?
Lastly,the old logo spot was better,and the headphone ports can stay dropped,reason being,the audio will still be routed to living room speakers anyway.
 
The grooves would really serve no purpose. They would just end up another extra step in production and it provides no aesthetic value except for adding more lines for you to focus your attention on which is NOT what you want if you agree with Dieter Rams' principles of good design.

It's purpose is only to draw your eye away from the fugly ODD slot.

No idea how a simple, single line on a box is so polarizing and breaking the fundamentals of basic design.. whatev :D


As much as I'd personally prefer an obscured, unobtrusive ODD slot (Rams' #5 :rolleyes:), since some are so adamant about the design of the ODD front panel (guys that would no doubt be opting only for the no-ODD front panel anyway).. my current vote (out of all of Necere's renders) goes to the minimalist design that W360 posted last week (though I still prefer my photoshops a little better :p)

Bare front w/logo and power button only, with USB and audio i/o hidden on the side (or top, vertically)..

6KDbfaul.jpg


http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041049202&postcount=22
 
How certain would a SSD on top of the ODD be,is there a bracket for that?
Odds are fair. Bracket would be something to work out.

How hard would it be to move the usb to the side?(top when case is vertical,the thin panels side)
Not hard, necessarily, but there are some ramifications. For example, the short sides couldn't be swapped to flip the case in the vertical orientation, like was asked about earlier in the thread. The USB will also compete for space if its in the same plane as the power button, so one or the other needs to be offset. It's also less accessible when the case is in a cabinet. It's a cleaner look, but for these reasons I don't favor it.

Is it possible to use the old design with no interference on the gpu as the no odd version or is it a must the two designs match save the slot?
It's uneconomical to do both, since there are differences in the chassis between the two.
 
A second attempt at integrating ODD support:

WUZEVmn.jpg


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This version moves the logo to a small removable plate that's fastened the same way as the side panels, the idea being to pop it out and rotate it to suit the orientation.
 
I'm liking the NCASE logo in a square, but the centered power/USB just looks off to me. The original design with the vertically offset power/USB/logo is much better. You really did get it right the first time.

As an off-the-wall idea, would it be possible to have a backlit "NCASE" on the power button itself? No idea if a component manufacturer would be able to offer such a thing and would probably require a much larger button.

What happened to the wraparound one-piece stand? Manufacturing concerns?

The ODD really needs to be saved for a larger mATX/ATX variant that uses the same design language and structural ideas. Every solution on this front I can think of ends up being a two-piece motherboard/GPU panel thing, unfortunately. Using a cutout in your current design to get the larger motherboard through just leaves too much unsupported motherboard for my comfort.
 
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An idea
why not do that rotating thing on the power button,ie,make the logo the power button?
Because it's outside the scope of the project. Aside from the case itself, we're not engineering custom parts - we're using LL's existing processes and parts bin. I should remind you that I'm a purely amateur designer, with no formal training in any of this. When you start asking for mechanisms (e.g., doors) and plastic parts, you're asking for things that I have no engineering experience in whatsoever. There are also cost considerations which make parts requiring molds or tooling out of the question.

As an off-the-wall idea, would it be possible to have a backlit "NCASE" on the power button itself? No idea if a component manufacturer would be able to offer such a thing and would probably require a much larger button.
See above.

What happened to the wraparound one-piece stand? Manufacturing concerns?
I decided it was probably going to be too weak to support the weight of the case or be lifted from the bottom.
 
The original design with the vertically offset power/USB/logo is much better. You really did get it right the first time.
Well, the first time publicly. As I said in the first post, I've been through countless iterations already, so it's really the end result of a very drawn out design period. Things like the grooves that were suggested I had already considered and rejected. You can perhaps get a sense of how frustrating this process can be.
 
Would it make any sense for the front panel to be part of the stand in the vertical position and part of the bottom panel (where the feet screw into) in the horizontal position?

The idea is to reduce the number of parts by one, and not having to have the square logo plate, which looks kinda bad IMO.
 
You mean something in line (HA!) with this?

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I actually think this looks better than the new non-ODD version, especially in the vertical position.

Or perhaps you just meant to have one groove?

x8i5YyU.png


J6g20JS.png

Yes, I also suggested something similar and I like it allot.
 
Would it make any sense for the front panel to be part of the stand in the vertical position and part of the bottom panel (where the feet screw into) in the horizontal position?

The idea is to reduce the number of parts by one, and not having to have the square logo plate, which looks kinda bad IMO.
With the way the case and stand are currently designed, no, it doesn't make sense.
 
It looks pretty bad with the drive. Maybe those cavemen users should get with the times instead.
 
Higher-end headphones meant for home use (Sennheiser HD650, et al.) come with cords in the 6'-15' range, if not longer. That and the plugs are 1/4", not 1/8".

Plus who uses front-panel audio on a HTPC? Honestly? You'll be pulling audio down through HDMI to a receiver (which has a 1/4" headphone jack). Never mind that the receiver will have much, much better DACs, op-amps, and electrical noise isolation than your on-board audio, especially for anything mITX.
This is not an HTPC case, this is a Steam Machine case, meant for gaming. Almost all Intel NUC's can handle the HTPC role just fine for a fraction of the cost and size, the Core i3 and up can even handle 4K if needed. So no, this case doesn't need a headphone jack for HTPC, but it needs (IMO) mic+headphone jacks for a gaming headset.

Again, it is not the length of the cord that is my argument, plugging it in the back because there is no front-panel connection just means the cable comes from the back. But the cable is still there (the argument was the cable hanging from the front).

It looks pretty bad with the drive. Maybe those cavemen users should get with the times instead.
I agree but apparently there are still a few people around that use discs regularly and can't be bothered with an external drive. But I've seen only one person complain about it being for non-HTPC purposes, which everyone seems to think this case is. So maybe just weigh the gravity of a few people having to use an external drive, keep the specs the way they are and move forward without ever looking back ?
 
Because it's outside the scope of the project. Aside from the case itself, we're not engineering custom parts - we're using LL's existing processes and parts bin. I should remind you that I'm a purely amateur designer, with no formal training in any of this. When you start asking for mechanisms (e.g., doors) and plastic parts, you're asking for things that I have no engineering experience in whatsoever. There are also cost considerations which make parts requiring molds or tooling out of the question.
Right,got it. Would've been cool though.
Another idea,can the feet double up as a handle for carrying the thing?
 
Say I get an msata or m.2 ssd,and a bunch of 1tb hdd's how many of those can fit?Can double stacking M1 style work to double this number?
Is it possible to move I/o power to the logo side and logo to the I/o power side,effectively freeing up the gpu again?
I'm just asking coz noone else is :)
 
Say I get an msata or m.2 ssd,and a bunch of 1tb hdd's how many of those can fit?Can double stacking M1 style work to double this number?
Is it possible to move I/o power to the logo side and logo to the I/o power side,effectively freeing up the gpu again?
I'm just asking coz noone else is :)
Double-stacking 9.5mm thick drives might be possible.

The power/front USB need to be on the top half (in vertical orientation) of the front panel, since they require a fair bit of space on the inside and the PSU is on the bottom front.
 
It's purpose is only to draw your eye away from the fugly ODD slot.

No idea how a simple, single line on a box is so polarizing and breaking the fundamentals of basic design.. whatev :D


As much as I'd personally prefer an obscured, unobtrusive ODD slot (Rams' #5 :rolleyes:), since some are so adamant about the design of the ODD front panel (guys that would no doubt be opting only for the no-ODD front panel anyway).. my current vote (out of all of Necere's renders) goes to the minimalist design that W360 posted last week (though I still prefer my photoshops a little better :p)

Bare front w/logo and power button only, with USB and audio i/o hidden on the side (or top, vertically)..

<snip>]

Even with an ODD slot I don't find it very necessary. It may be making the ODD look less out of place but you can still see it. It's not like the ODD slot disappears (that's obvious). We can obviously tell it's there but now in addition to that there's another line that really serves no purpose except make the ODD look just slightly less awkward. It would be better to have only the ODD slot without a groove. Also, one giant groove versus just a small cutout is waaaaay more attention grabbing. The first thing that pops up in my mind is, "Why?" (although I'm tuned to think this. Most people will probably just look at it for a second and then shrug it off).

Besides, I actually don't see a point in hiding the ODD slot. Good design is understandable and honest. It's not like you're trying to hide the fact that this thing has an ODD in it. Using the groove, in a sense, is trying to manipulate the user to believe that there is no ODD (that sounds a bit extreme, and it's not like the ODD is invisible so this may sound like a pretty bad argument to most).The ODD slot is a "feature."
Most of us can tell the function of this "feature" by looking at it. Adding that groove slightly obscures what that feature is.

A second attempt at integrating ODD support:

<snip>

This version moves the logo to a small removable plate that's fastened the same way as the side panels, the idea being to pop it out and rotate it to suit the orientation.

Oooo, that logo badge is nice.

I'm curious though to if there's any real purpose to the grooves on the side.

Also, could you make a model that uses a long horizontal vents with half circles as ends as opposed to vertical bars? I'm just curious as to what it would look like. Also it would cut off more material to let more air (although sound too) through. If you look at a few Braun Atelier units you probably can get a good idea of what I'm talking about. Here's a photo:

tumblr_nakg6clSA81tinrhjo4_1280.jpg


I think it fits the circle mesh pattern you're using on the side panels versus something that has squared corners on each vent slot.
 
The number of HTPC and "steambox" cases that support ODD is huge.
Why is it that the few or only options that don't, have to be changed?

Take one of the many options that suits you. Thats the last time I comment on the matter.
 
I personally like it like this (3rd variation).
It seems more like a real product while the second variation gives off a strong "home-made" feeling.
 
I too like the 3rd variation - looks good with and without ODD support, although I'll be going for the non-ODD option when/if this goes to production :D
 
I personally like it like this (3rd variation).
It seems more like a real product while the second variation gives off a strong "home-made" feeling.

I too like the 3rd variation - looks good with and without ODD support, although I'll be going for the non-ODD option when/if this goes to production :D
It's what I'm leaning toward as well. But keep in mind I'm not set on an ODD-supporting design - I just want to try to get the best version I can before making a decision. As for right now I've been staring at it too much and can't make any kind of decent judgment about it any longer. Need to give it a rest and come back with fresh eyes.
 
This is not an HTPC case, this is a Steam Machine case, meant for gaming. Almost all Intel NUC's can handle the HTPC role just fine for a fraction of the cost and size..

This is a "living room PC" per Necere & W360. But regardless of the naming or intent, there will definitely be folks using this case as a nice HTPC that you can also decently game on (or primarily as a gaming machine that also performs HTPC duties). Where possible, both aspects should be considered to maximize sales by catching potential buyers in both markets.

Plus, they haven't shown us the NCASE N1 NUC replacement chassis.. yet :D
 
The USB ports location just feels weird. Would you offer the option of no USB and no ODD slot front panel?
 
This is a "living room PC" per Necere & W360. But regardless of the naming or intent, there will definitely be folks using this case as a nice HTPC that you can also decently game on (or primarily as a gaming machine that also performs HTPC duties). Where possible, both aspects should be considered to maximize sales by catching potential buyers in both markets.

Yes ofcourse, I'm not talking about "this case is forbidden to be used as...", but about what this case is meant for. People shouldn't see this as an HTPC case because it is designed as something else. If Necere wanted to make an HTPC case, this thing would probably have support for all the things people are asking about, but it would also not be this case it is now.

My point was that people are arguing from the perspective as a HTPC while it should be viewed as a Steam Machine case (ergo my point of the "hifi headphones vs gaming headset"). That it why I replied to that person, he was seeing this case for HTPC usage. Again: this case is not an HTPC case. It can be used for that goal, but it's not designed towards that goal. So that's why the original design first shown didn't have an ODD, 3,5" support, I/R window and hidden USB ports. If you can't live with the aspect of not having the ideal HTPC case with this one, look at the alternatives like the Silverstone ML07, as it is a much better HTPC case, but it's not a Steam Machine case like this one we are discussing.
 
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Was just going to suggest the 3rd variation myself, but then I see that you already had the same idea, Necere. :)

I like the 1st variation best (or the 1st variation + AFD's single groove), but the 3rd is the best compromise allowing ODD support so far. I can accept that one.

I still don't like the invasion of gpu space though, but I admit that it of course isn't much, and my GTX 780 Ti would still fit just fine.

About the grooves: I just like it, personally. Whether it follows recommended design guidelines or not, I really don't care. But yeah, in this case grooves would be 100% form and zero function. Always function over form, I say. I won't be losing sleep because there won't be any grooves, I promise. :D
 
It's what I'm leaning toward as well. But keep in mind I'm not set on an ODD-supporting design - I just want to try to get the best version I can before making a decision. As for right now I've been staring at it too much and can't make any kind of decent judgment about it any longer. Need to give it a rest and come back with fresh eyes.
This is a "living room PC" per Necere & W360. But regardless of the naming or intent, there will definitely be folks using this case as a nice HTPC that you can also decently game on (or primarily as a gaming machine that also performs HTPC duties). Where possible, both aspects should be considered to maximize sales by catching potential buyers in both markets.

Plus, they haven't shown us the NCASE N1 NUC replacement chassis.. yet :D

If this is going to be a living room PC then what Necere said above is somewhat questionable. I feel like you should have an ODD option if this is going to sit in the living room since quite a few people will replace their DVD/Blu-Ray players with the one built into their computer.

ODD should be a second though. I don't think there's a point in increasing case size to fit the ODD since it's a rather trivial feature considering the sheer amount of external ODDs nowadays.
 
3rd variation:
*snip*

I love it :)
Again, folks are really taking the request for ODD abit too hard. It was not my intent to get folks all worked up about it,so like I said,I would LIKE one,but would still be okay if it does not make the cut. That said,all consoles have a ODD,why shouldn't this one?
 
How about turn the side slot openings 90 degrees, make them thin, longer and rounded on the edges, and give them an alternating pattern for visuals? And then, use one of those openings for the optional ODD? ODD would be on the side, but it wouldn't require any visually distracting opening for people who don't use it...

Let me know if it's not clear, I'll try to photoshop something ;)
 
And what are the functions of a steam machine exactly?

This case is Ncase's take on Valve's Steam Machine (prototype) concept, which includes a minimal set of hardware in as small a case as possible. It (Valve's concept) doesn't include an ODD, due to size (and cost). The idea is to download/stream everything.

As far as I know, you can't download all games on consoles, so an ODD is mandatory for them. But I may be wrong, I don't know nor care much about the console world.

Since you can freely run any OS you want on a Steam Machine, it's a pc, not a console. I'll be using it mainly as a pc myself.
 
How would one insert a disc from the side if the case is laying flat in a recess/shelf of a say tv stand?

I know, there's that. It would be useful for vertical orientation, or unobstructed horizontal placement. Nothing is perfect :)
 
The silver feet on the horizontal orientation kind of ruins this for me. Looks like low-end AV gear.
 
It (Valve's concept) doesn't include an ODD, due to size (and cost). The idea is to download/stream everything.
Analyst: Downloadable titles make up 92% of PC games market

I'm with the first promoted comment in that article: "Personally? It's the 8% that surprises me."

Apple was right in pulling 3.5" floppies from the original iMac. The NCASE guys should pull a Jobs and call it as they see it. ODD is dead, dead, dead.

I feel like you should have an ODD option if this is going to sit in the living room since quite a few people will replace their DVD/Blu-Ray players with the one built into their computer.
Except that they aren't. DVD/Blu-ray HTPC software is, sadly, a bit of a joke in terms of polish and usability, which means nobody uses it and it's not going to get better.

Basically everybody uses a PS3/PS4/Xbone (or standalone Blu-ray player) as a Blu-ray/Netflix/Hulu/Amazon player/streamer, a NUC-like ODD-less HTPC (read: XBMC/Plex/Media Browser), and a DVR. With satellite you're stuck with the provider's box and with terrestrial cable you're stuck with Windows Media Center (which is now abandonware) and a Ceton/SiliconDust CableCARD tuner. Some use Tivo, but Tivo has been on a decades-long death spiral ala pre-bankruptcy GM.
 
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Would it be possible to change feet to attach on other side of case. Essentially, making top -> bottom and vice versa? So that if one would not use gpu, one could have clean topside and cpu cooler + psu would draw fresh air from bottom side.
 
Another vote for version 3 being the most aesthetically pleasing option that also allows for ODDs.

Having the power and USB on the side like that might make sense only in the case of having an ODD in order to balance it out. But what about people who don't plan on getting legacy devices.

Then you'll be right back in the position of the look/layout of publicly-released-version-1.0, which had the power and USB offset, and which looked great before ODD considerations prompted a reconfiguration.
 
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