The next NCASE project: a Steam Machine-style case (indeterminate)

[EdZ]

I still keep a BD drive around due to no streaming or download service this far offering video that doesn't look like bitrate-starved ass. But I'm perfectly happy to use an external drive and tuck it away somewhere rather eat the disproportionate case volume increase.

 

[theGryphon]

For what it does and can support, it is too large I think.
An AIO cooler option would give more headroom for overclocking, which some people care about. If this case doesn't want to support CPU overclocking, it's too large for what it can deliver.

I understand having a certain scope I think that scope can be achieved in a smaller package. As is, I'd rather buy the M1 than bother with this. It's really not much smaller: same depth, taller design, not much footprint saving considering the base.

Necere, why don't you look at dropping long GPU support, move the (short, max 180mm) GPU at the backside of the motherboard with a flexible riser (and insert a separator plate between the mobo and GPU), keep the 60mm CPU cooler support, place the PSU 90 degree to the mobo so it exhausts from top? This should give you case dimensions of about 200(H)x250(D)x130(W) = 6.5 lts. Only sides and top would need to be vented (unless you make the PSU intake from the front), so you can use very low profile feet (a few mms of rubber). You can add another 10mm to depth to give it an edgy M1 look

Now that would significantly differentiate it from M1, and pretty much anything out there. With your prowess in design, quality of materials used, and already top-chart reputation, it would cater to a market who's looking for handsome, very small form factor living room / gaming / office PC...

 

[Phuncz]

I was thinking about the ODD discussion and how we might make everyone happy. Instead of adding the drive internally, maybe it could be integrated in de vertical stand ? I see the stand is already 120mm wide, which is only 10mm less wide than a slimline ODD. Since the side-vents are slotted anyway, it might be easy enough to get a slimline SATA connector through there too. But the stand would have to be redesigned.

But that could be this case's "No ODD top" like with the Ncase M1: have a stand which allows a slimline ODD to be installed and one that doesn't. Possible, realistic ?

 

[vipz]

Out of all the people that want built-in ODD, there's bound to be a good number that want the case horizontal.

 

[TurpoUrpo]

Out of all the people that want built-in ODD, there's bound to be a good number that want the case horizontal.

I think it really would be good idea to do poll on what ppl want to help decide what viable. So no work would be wasted.

 

[Necere]

For what it does and can support, it is too large I think.
An AIO cooler option would give more headroom for overclocking, which some people care about. If this case doesn't want to support CPU overclocking, it's too large for what it can deliver.

I understand having a certain scope I think that scope can be achieved in a smaller package. As is, I'd rather buy the M1 than bother with this. It's really not much smaller: same depth, taller design, not much footprint saving considering the base.

I think you've missed the point somewhat. It's not just about the size - it's the form factor, i.e., a slim-style case intended to be used like a gaming console and/or media PC in the living room. For that application, this is a more desirable form factor. When was the last time you saw a console or Blu-ray player shaped like a UPS? It's true that its footprint and apparent size aren't tremendously smaller than the M1 (though the volume is ~30% less), but it's the proportions that allow it to fit in better in that setting - particularly if you consider horizontal placement in a media center.

The case you describe is for an altogether different usage scenario, and I have explored designs similar to that. But this time around I wanted to do a Steam Machine-style case because 1.) there's interest in it, and 2.) no one else is doing this particular combination of size, features, and form factor. This is literally about as small as it can be using this layout while still supporting standard hardware.

 

[backfeed]

As long as it will be possible to position the case vertically with the psu exhaust pointing upwards, as Phuncz suggested earlier, this case is already pretty much perfect in its current state. Most impressive!

I like the minimalism, and I definitely wouldn't want it destroyed by support for ODD (those who must have ODD can easily solve it with a slim external drive connected to a usb port in the back, tucked away from view), water cooling or anything else that doesn't belong to the concept of this case.

Nit pick:

If the usb ports remain blue, I hope the power led will also be blue, like in the M1? Red + blue is a horrible color combo in my opinion.

 

[vipz]

And it's not just living room media PC/gaming console. Personally I'm interested in this flatter form factor due to how much space even the M1 takes up on my desk.

Without having actually tried it, I think my ideal form factor is something that can stand up or be mounted behind the monitor and only takes up minimum space in addition to the monitor itself. I don't think I care too much about how it looks, but it needs to be functional, takes up very little space, and in general just stay out of the way. I don't mind reaching behind the monitor once in a while to press a power button or plug in a USB stick.

 

[Necere]

If the usb ports remain blue, I hope the power led will also be blue, like in the M1? Red + blue is a horrible color combo in my opinion.

This is apparently a little-known fact, since I haven't seen anyone do it in their M1 build: you can swap which headers the power/HDD connectors plug into to change which color corresponds to which. So you can choose which color you want it to be.

 

[backfeed]

This is apparently a little-known fact, since I haven't seen anyone do it in their M1 build: you can swap which headers the power/HDD connectors plug into to change which color corresponds to which. So you can choose which color you want it to be.

Ah, but of course!

That's settled then, I don't even have a nitpick anymore.

 

[WiSK]

This is apparently a little-known fact, since I haven't seen anyone do it in their M1 build: you can swap which headers the power/HDD connectors plug into to change which color corresponds to which. So you can choose which color you want it to be.

Fffff don't tell everyone!

 

[fenrisx]

My experience with doors is the typically wear out, break, or fit badly. I also don't really know how to design a door mechanism. I've seen the little doors Lian Li has on some of their cases covering the USB ports (as on the A05), and I don't care for them. So yeah. No doors.

Doors was going to be what I would have recommended as well. That's what sold me on the Fractal Design Node 605 over other similar style Silverstone and Lian Li cases when I did my last build. It seems very sturdy on this particular case. Granted the Node 605 is much bigger allowing more room for sturdier hinges.

Understanding why you don't want to do it... I then second a previous commenters suggestion of black USB ports. To me it would look cleaner than with the blue plugs.

I like it so far.

 

[Allanitomwesh]

Aren't black usb ports USB 2.0?
Also Necrere can these fit?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0097LG9U8?pc_redir=1409239410&robot_redir=1

 

[Necere]

Aren't black usb ports USB 2.0?
Also Necrere can these fit?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0097LG9U8?pc_redir=1409239410&robot_redir=1

USB 3.0 are supposed to be blue to differentiate them from 2.0 (black), but AFAIK it's more of a suggestion than a requirement. Be that as it may, if there are electrical differences between the 2.0 and 3.0 receptacles and black 3.0 aren't readily available, it might be unfeasible to get them.

Yes, 2.5" drives up to 15mm thick will fit.

 

[mwayne5]

As long as it comes in silver again, I'm going to get one lol

But please, please keep an option for an ODD. I don't need one for my PC, but I got stacks on stacks of Blu-Rays that I would use in this.

 

[Allanitomwesh]

And is pico support feasible?

 

[wahaha360]

As long as it comes in silver again, I'm going to get one lol...

One of our older rendering, the panels are not brushed or anodized.

 

[backfeed]

But please, please keep an option for an ODD. I don't need one for my PC, but I got stacks on stacks of Blu-Rays that I would use in this.

As the thread title says, this is a Steam Machine-style case, not an HTPC (even though it can of course be used for that, as long an ODD is not needed).

I have a large collection of dvd and bluray discs with movies and series myself, but I have an HTPC (in a Streacom FC5 Evo OD, perfect for the purpose and 100% passively cooled) with a slim bluray ODD for that.

The reason that ODD support was added to the NCASE M1 in the end, was that there was room for it and it only required small changes (a slot in the top cover etc). The only downside was for those of us who had to order an additional top cover without that !"#%&¤! slot.

In this new case, there is no room to spare for an ODD, without making big changes. That's why I oppose it. With a passion.

But sure, if it can be done in some magic way that doesn't have negative visual nor functional impact, then I have no reason to object.

 

[cowsgomoo]

The only downside was for those of us who had to order an additional top cover without that !"#%&¤! slot.

I still don't understand why you guys bother to buy the no-ODD panel. The slot at the top is no different from the numerous holes already present at the top of the case, just that hole in question is a LONG hole, and it just happens to serve another purpose.

 

[cowsgomoo]

Because it's ugly as s#!t.

A long hole is uglier than numerous small holes. Okay.

 

[backfeed]

I still don't understand why you guys bother to buy the no-ODD panel. The slot at the top is no different from the numerous holes already present at the top of the case, just that hole in question is a LONG hole, and it just happens to serve another purpose.

The slot breaks the clean aesthetics completely; it doesn't fit in with the rest at all. I can't understand why you guys are bothered by that?

 

[backfeed]

A long hole is uglier than numerous small holes. Okay.

Now you're just being silly. Of course it can be. It can also be the other way around. It depends on the context. Not to mention that it's individual. You have no problem with it. I do.

 

[ekuest]

beautiful case again necere and w360! just a question for necere: did you ever consider rotating the gpu 90 degrees and hanging it (if the case is in standing orientation) between the mobo and the front panel and leaving room for the cords to loop up and out the back? i think this would be a good design for gpus 8-10" instead of full-power 12" cards. the design you came up with is basically mandated by trying to fit the mobo, psu, and gpu all up against the rear panel since they all have cords going to them. i was thinking if you're already planning on a pcie riser cable, why not rotate it while youre at it? i dont know if this would actually be a beneficial design, but was wondering if you had ever considered it.

 

[theGryphon]

^ Actually this gave me a very good idea. I'll try to make a Sketch-up

 

[theGryphon]

OK, here it is: https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/embed.html?mid=u96a6c286-37ed-426a-83b5-ec1630a6a1a5

Positives:

• All vents on the same side panel. The other side is to be solid, no need for tall feet in horizontal orientation, easier to find a suitable place in tight environments.
• Only top and one side need to be vented. No need for tall feet in vertical orientation either.
• All components exhaust out in a natural way (towards the top and back).
• No internal power cable!
• Still supports 12" GPUs. Compartmentalizing would still help to separate GPU from the rest of the system.
• Internal case size (height and depth) can probably be reduced a bit, compared to current layout.

Notes:

• This layout needs a flexible riser to turn the GPU 90 degrees, and an internal bracket to hold the GPU.
• Also needs an opening for GPU video cable(s).

Negatives:

• Can't think of anything really.

 

[Aibohphobia]

The PCIe extender is the main problem with that idea. Shielded extenders are fairly stiff and it would be really hard to bend them 90 degrees like that. There are good, flexible extenders but they are very expensive.

 

[EdZ]

Remember also that PCI-E lanes need to be the same length, both for impedance/capacitance matching, and at 8GHz (for PCI-E 3.0) transmission time is a factor even over short distances. Any custom rigid riser would need to work within those constraints.

 

[Necere]

beautiful case again necere and w360! just a question for necere: did you ever consider rotating the gpu 90 degrees and hanging it (if the case is in standing orientation) between the mobo and the front panel and leaving room for the cords to loop up and out the back? i think this would be a good design for gpus 8-10" instead of full-power 12" cards. the design you came up with is basically mandated by trying to fit the mobo, psu, and gpu all up against the rear panel since they all have cords going to them. i was thinking if you're already planning on a pcie riser cable, why not rotate it while youre at it? i dont know if this would actually be a beneficial design, but was wondering if you had ever considered it.

OK, here it is: https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/embed.html?mid=u96a6c286-37ed-426a-83b5-ec1630a6a1a5


Positives:

• All vents on the same side panel. The other side is to be solid, no need for tall feet in horizontal orientation, easier to find a suitable place in tight environments.
• Only top and one side need to be vented. No need for tall feet in vertical orientation either.
• All components exhaust out in a natural way (towards the top and back).
• No internal power cable!
• Still supports 12" GPUs. Compartmentalizing would still help to separate GPU from the rest of the system.
• Internal case size (height and depth) can probably be reduced a bit, compared to current layout.

Notes:

• This layout needs a flexible riser to turn the GPU 90 degrees, and an internal bracket to hold the GPU.
• Also needs an opening for GPU video cable(s).

Negatives:

• Can't think of anything really.

The same reasons I gave against flipping the GPU apply here, but additionally:

1. As Aiboh says, the flex riser is quite stiff and doesn't allow for the tight bends that would be required.
2. It actually ends up being larger overall - the GPU needs ~155mm in front of the motherboard, whereas the PSU only needs ~135mm, plus if you want to support normal DVI cables, it needs 80mm from the back of the GPU. A 10.5" GPU is ~270mm + 80mm = 350mm, already taller than the current design, even without the chassis figured in.

 

[EdZ]

Thought the front of the case might look nice with the twin side grooves continued right around. Would probably be difficult to manufacture with the existing button and port placement though (either need to press grooved before punching the ports, or mill grooves after punching the ports, both likely needing custom tooling).

 

[AFD]

Thought the front of the case might look nice with the twin side grooves continued right around.

I agree. But I think even just a single groove, running right below the power button and USB ports would look really nice and help break up the solid front (basically in the same spot I think would look awesome for a single 45° bend)..

EDIT: Just thought of another dumb idea.. instead of the taller case feet for the horizontal placement, maybe have a pedestal base that mimics the styling of the vertical base? Perhaps have the opening go from front to back, and the curved bottom could go outward, or even inward under the case (with solid sides, like the solid front of the vertical stand). Material would cost more for the horizontal vs the vertical stand, but the case could always ship with just standard tall feet, while having the option to buy either stand as an accessory.

 

[bAMtan2]

Bear in mind that it's still just a concept right now, with no timeline or even certainty of production. I wouldn't really expect it anytime soon.

I want one right now, just the way you've made it. Where do I send my money?

 

[Necere]

So, about ODD support. I'm sympathetic to those for whom it's a desired, or even needed feature, so I thought I ought to at least make an honest effort at a solution. I also can't ignore that fact that M1 orders were more than two to one in favor of an ODD slot.

So here's what I did: the power button and front USB got moved over out in front of the GPU, while a slim ODD occupies that area + the first 2.5" mount. A 2.5" on top of the ODD might still be possible. The major con is that maximum GPU length is reduced somewhat, to about 10.8", maybe 11". There's also a bit less room for cables with an ODD installed, naturally. Keep in mind there are no changes to the dimensions of the case.

Aesthetics are subjective, so I'll let you decide if the change is for better or worse:

What a possible no-ODD version would look like:

 

[hugligan]

I hope to god that you keep an option without the ODD. Seriously, its dying and i dont understand why people would want one. It will make the case larger (smaller on the inside) and uglier, get an external slim one? Like the apple superdrive.

Also no damn grove. That just looks silly. Neceres original idea is much cleaner and more stylish.

 

[AFD]

Aesthetics are subjective, so I'll let you decide if the change is for better or worse

I think it looks really nice horizontally w/the ODD. On the other hand, I kinda prefer the previous layout over the no-ODD front.

The major con is that maximum GPU length is reduced somewhat, to about 10.8", maybe 11".

So with an ODD installed, there would still be room for at least 1x (maybe 2x) 2.5" drives and an 11" GPU?? That's actually pretty cool, and internally, is what made the M1 so awesome (the ability to do several different configs in a given spot).

Also no damn grove. That just looks silly.

You look silly, bitchin' about groves.. this ain't no dang orchard

It's just something that wasn't garish, while still breaking up the plain-looking front. I personally think it makes it look more like an actual a/v component you'd find in a living room. But yeah, def form over function I suppose.

I kinda understand those that are tweaking over the aesthetics of an ODD slot, but I also get how those that would want to use this as a gaming/HTPC combo would equally not want a fugly outboard ODD hanging off their gear. If I were to put something like this in my living room, I'd probably want an optical drive.. for watching Bluray, DVDs, and even for playing my old PS2 discs w/PCSX2. Have it be something that actually replaces other gear (game console, Bluray and digital media players, etc.).

 

[vipz]

So, about ODD support. I'm sympathetic to those for whom it's a desired, or even needed feature, so I thought I ought to at least make an honest effort at a solution. I also can't ignore that fact that M1 orders were more than two to one in favor of an ODD slot.

So here's what I did: the power button and front USB got moved over out in front of the GPU, while a slim ODD occupies that area + the first 2.5" mount. A 2.5" on top of the ODD might still be possible. The major con is that maximum GPU length is reduced somewhat, to about 10.8", maybe 11". There's also a bit less room for cables with an ODD installed, naturally. Keep in mind there are no changes to the dimensions of the case.

Aesthetics are subjective, so I'll let you decide if the change is for better or worse:

I'm not a fan of how the logo sits between the power button and USB ports. I think it looks weird because 1.) the logo is not functional (unlike the other three items in the set), and 2.) the unequal distances between the items in the set - the two USB ports are spaced closer together than the rest.

What happened to the front audio ports? Are you open to relocating them to the back or removing them altogether? What about relocating the power or USB ports?

BTW, the PSU is 63.5mm thick, and the case is 80mm thick. How exactly is the difference in thickness (16.5mm) utilized? I know there are three sheets of metal taking up space, plus maybe an air filter, but there should be some left?

 

[AFD]

Are you open to relocating them to the back or removing them altogether? What about relocating the power or USB ports?

Heck yeah. If you're gonna go with a plain front, then just mute the whole damn thing!

I/O only in the rear (or hidden on the sides), and a stealth power button on the left side (top when vertical) and nothing but a subtle NCASE logo on the stand..

 

[Necere]

I'm not a fan of how the logo sits between the power button and USB ports. I think it looks weird because 1.) the logo is not functional (unlike the other three items in the set), and 2.) the unequal distances between the items in the set - the two USB ports are spaced closer together than the rest.

That's the challenge: how to arrange the elements in a harmonious way with the addition of the ODD, that also works without it.

What happened to the front audio ports? Are you open to relocating them to the back or removing them altogether? What about relocating the power or USB ports?

That makes little sense to me. The point of front ports is that they're easily accessible; the motherboard provides more than enough ports on the rear.

BTW, the PSU is 63.5mm thick, and the case is 80mm thick. How exactly is the difference in thickness (16.5mm) utilized? I know there are three sheets of metal taking up space, plus maybe an air filter, but there should be some left?

About 9mm. Which isn't useful for much. If it's all on side (which it's not atm), an SSD could fit, maybe. I was going to leave the extra space for a little extra clearance for the AC cable.

Heck yeah. If you're gonna go with a plain front, then just mute the whole damn thing!

I/O only in the rear (or hidden on the sides), and a stealth power button on the left side (top when vertical) and nothing but a subtle NCASE logo on the stand..

It's too crowded on the stand for the logo, imo.

 

[Phuncz]

So, about ODD support. I'm sympathetic to those for whom it's a desired, or even needed feature, so I thought I ought to at least make an honest effort at a solution. I also can't ignore that fact that M1 orders were more than two to one in favor of an ODD slot.

So here's what I did: the power button and front USB got moved over out in front of the GPU, while a slim ODD occupies that area + the first 2.5" mount. A 2.5" on top of the ODD might still be possible. The major con is that maximum GPU length is reduced somewhat, to about 10.8", maybe 11". There's also a bit less room for cables with an ODD installed, naturally. Keep in mind there are no changes to the dimensions of the case.

10.8" means the reference GTX 780Ti/Titan and Radeon R9 290X would both be supported, which is about the highest-end you'd want to have in this case I guess.

If this allows slimline drives with a mITX-sized GPU, without losing anything else for everyone else, I think this is a good compromise. Since the case isn't larger and >10.8" cards seem to be some custom-cooler GPU's or dual-GPU's, I don't see this as an issue. But atleast people who still depends on optical discs or don't have a $50 BluRay player have their solution.

BTW: I have an ODD-slot in my Ncase M1 because I was not sure at that time that I would need an ODD or not. But I never used it. I can guess there are plenty of people that got a ODD-drive and also haven't used more than a couple of times in the last year.

 

[vipz]

That makes little sense to me. The point of front ports is that they're easily accessible; the motherboard provides more than enough ports on the rear.

There are never too many ports and while I don't speak for everyone, personally I don't need them too readily accessible. My current setup has both the front and rear audio ports occupied and I also never have to unplug my headphones. Granted I'm cheating a bit here since I'm actually not using onboard audio, but instead the Asus Xonar U7, which has a hardware button to switch between headphones and speakers.

So I'm actually not sure how common it is for people to plug and unplug their headphones to the front panel ports...

Although I believe that this case is small enough that having to reach behind to plug in a headset or so might be a worthwhile trade off for a super slick front design.

About 9mm. Which isn't useful for much. If it's all on side (which it's not atm), an SSD could fit, maybe. I was going to leave the extra space for a little extra clearance for the AC cable.

I'm guessing there's no way to fit USB ports there?

 

[Necere]

There are never too many ports and while I don't speak for everyone, personally I don't need them too readily accessible.
...
Although I believe that this case is small enough that having to reach behind to plug in a headset or so might be a worthwhile trade off for a super slick front design.

Bear in mind one of the places this case is likely to end up is in a media center cabinet, so the power button and USB do need to be accessible from the front.

It's also important to remember that any additional ports mean extra cables in the case, which is already very tight. That's part of the reason I dropped front audio.

I'm guessing there's no way to fit USB ports there?

That's correct.