The next NCASE project: a Steam Machine-style case (indeterminate)

Tyki

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Love this front IO iteration much more. Has a much cleaner, separate look than the previous one.
 
D

Deleted member 222586

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Something I was considering was to use a different finish on the top cover vs. the rest of the case (including the front I/O strip), so even on a black case you get a bit of two-tone effect:



Think matte black for the case and more of a satin or brushed finish on the cover.
Something is very wrong here... I'm throwing money at the screen but nothing happens :whistle::whistle::whistle:
 

Necere

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Necere, I'd thought (IMHO) that you could place the ventilation on the bottom where the GPU (so that the GPU could draw air outside or push out air) for adequate cooling
The case is designed so that everything is working together to get the air moving in one direction through the case: the 120mm fans draw air in through the top, it takes an immediate right angle turn at the motherboard, then is drawn in by the PSU and GPU fans, and exhausted out the side. Adding bottom vents would be counterproductive to this airflow scheme.

Something is very wrong here... I'm throwing money at the screen but nothing happens :whistle::whistle::whistle:
An unqualified statement of approval from prava?? /checks outside for flying pigs :p


Well, it seems like the IO on the bottom is the definite favorite, so that's the direction I'll be working on going forward.
 

backfeed

Limp Gawd
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If you're just using it for watching Blu-rays, isn't a dedicated BD player all around better for that?
Yes, very much yes.

Why would the folks that peruse Hardforum want a dedicated blu-ray player when they can make their own PC that does everything a blu-ray player can and more?
Because using a pc for disc playback is a major pain in the behind, in practice. I've been doing that since the early days of dvd and still have an htpc with blu-ray disc playback, but I've quit using it for that (I'm only using it for streaming nowadays).

Why? PowerDVD. I've had countless problems with that piece of crap bloatware since forever; system freezes, bluescreens, sometimes extremely slow disc loading, having to restart the system 1-2 times to get the disc playing at all and so on. I've never had any other problems with my htpc's over the years, PowerDVD has always been the cause of all pain.

Also, at least for now it's impossible to play UHD blu-ray on a pc.
 

Nathan Spears

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Yes, very much yes.



Because using a pc for disc playback is a major pain in the behind, in practice. I've been doing that since the early days of dvd and still have an htpc with blu-ray disc playback, but I've quit using it for that (I'm only using it for streaming nowadays).

Why? PowerDVD. I've had countless problems with that piece of crap bloatware since forever; system freezes, bluescreens, sometimes extremely slow disc loading, having to restart the system 1-2 times to get the disc playing at all and so on. I've never had any other problems with my htpc's over the years, PowerDVD has always been the cause of all pain.

Also, at least for now it's impossible to play UHD blu-ray on a pc.
I do think that a dedicated Blu-Ray player is more convenient, but that's a weak argument to blame one piece of software, when there are other options, for the SOLE reason why you don't use your PC for Blu-Ray playback.

If you don't want to use Blu-Ray on your PC, then don't use it. It's not like you don't have that choice. If some people want to use a Blu-Rays in a HTPC type scenario, why not let them. Having a choice is better than no choice at all. That's the beauty of PCs. Choices abound.
 

backfeed

Limp Gawd
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I do think that a dedicated Blu-Ray player is more convenient, but that's a weak argument to blame one piece of software, when there are other options, for the SOLE reason why you don't use your PC for Blu-Ray playback.

If you don't want to use Blu-Ray on your PC, then don't use it. It's not like you don't have that choice. If some people want to use a Blu-Rays in a HTPC type scenario, why not let them. Having a choice is better than no choice at all. That's the beauty of PCs. Choices abound.
Which option would that be? There has only ever existed one software player that handles all formats (and actually performs correct 2:3 pulldown). It also happens to be highly unreliable and frustrating crap. Are there even any other alternatives still alive?

There are incredibly many already existing case alternatives with ODD support. It's frankly annoying that every single time somebody presents a nice new SFF case concept, there's always somebody trying to complicate things by forcing ODD support into it.
 
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Nathan Spears

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Which option would that be? There has only ever existed one software player that handles all formats (and actually performs correct 2:3 pulldown). It also happens to be highly unreliable and frustrating crap. Are there even any other alternatives still alive?

There are incredibly many already existing case alternatives with ODD support. It's frankly annoying that every single time somebody presents a nice new SFF case concept, there's always somebody trying to complicate things by forcing ODD support into it.
Complicate things? Necere has already thought to include ODD support. I'm not forcing anything, rather I asked if the support could be there since this case is ideal as an HTPC setup. Again, you don't need ODD support, then don't worry about it. Now, sure, I would be upset if someone was asking Dan's Dan A4 case to include ODD support, but this is a steam/console type case.

As for the Blu-Ray player software, there are a number of solutions. Cyberlink and ArcSoft Total Media Theater also have software that handles Blu-Rays. If you don't want to pay, Leawo exists as a free alternative.
 

backfeed

Limp Gawd
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Complicate things? Necere has already thought to include ODD support. I'm not forcing anything, rather I asked if the support could be there since this case is ideal as an HTPC setup. Again, you don't need ODD support, then don't worry about it. Now, sure, I would be upset if someone was asking Dan's Dan A4 case to include ODD support, but this is a steam/console type case.

As for the Blu-Ray player software, there are a number of solutions. Cyberlink and ArcSoft Total Media Theater also have software that handles Blu-Rays. If you don't want to pay, Leawo exists as a free alternative.
I neither can nor should speak for Necere, but as far as I recall from both the massive M1 thread and this one, he would actually prefer skipping ODD support. If space can be saved and the case becomes less complex (potentially cheaper to manufacture) without ODD support, then ODD support should don the dunce hat and go sit in a corner IMNSHO. :p

Yes, the "one and only" PowerDVD which I'm talking about is a Cyberlink product (which I've paid quite a lot for in total over the years, until I finally gave up). ArcSoft Total Media Theater has been discontinued. Never even heard of Leawo, but sure, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt (although that's a rather massive doubt, considering how complex "perfect" dvd/bd-playback actually is).

A Steam case would pretty much by definition have zero need for ODD.
 
D

Deleted member 222586

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An unqualified statement of approval from prava?? /checks outside for flying pigs :p


Well, it seems like the IO on the bottom is the definite favorite, so that's the direction I'll be working on going forward.
Don't get used to it (y)

Regarding IO on the bottom...IMO, it isn't like the IO there is in the perfect placement... but rather that having a piece for it in a different colour that extends the whole wideness of the case makes more sense aesthetically rather than having a rectangle in the middle of the case.
 

goldenhk

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Hi Necere this case is good by its concept. For those who is not looking for putting in a GTX 1080 it would be surely the hit.

The layout looks great, and since it limits GPU to mostly GTX 1060, heat should not be a problem at all as the card drives low heat (I have the card myself). This already captured a lot the market.

Please test for Ryzen, as it seems to be the next hit in the market. I am not sure the heat factors in those CPUs.

As you have mentioned, the major problem here is the PSU. Other than the fan noise, another problem is the cable arrange in most FLEX PSU in the market seems long and hard to fit in a small case.

If possible, it would be good to have a customised FLEX PSU with a) fan with lower noise, and b) cable with a shorter length.

I understand this would certainly drive the price up, but they are to me the keys of this project's success.

Perhaps you can offer two options, one with generic PSU and one with customised PSU.
 

wahaha360

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The layout looks great, and since it limits GPU to mostly GTX 1060
The MSI 1070 mini and Gigabyte 1070 mini should fit as well. Hopefully this case will convince mfg to release more short cards and ideally a 1080 mini less than 175mm long.

As you have mentioned, the major problem here is the PSU. Other than the fan noise, another problem is the cable arrange in most FLEX PSU in the market seems long and hard to fit in a small case.

If possible, it would be good to have a customised FLEX PSU with a) fan with lower noise, and b) cable with a shorter length.
Already have two for testing :)
 

mTECHIE

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The case is designed so that everything is working together to get the air moving in one direction through the case: the 120mm fans draw air in through the top, it takes an immediate right angle turn at the motherboard, then is drawn in by the PSU and GPU fans, and exhausted out the side. Adding bottom vents would be counterproductive to this airflow scheme.
Ah....I see what you mean - make sense.
 

mTECHIE

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The MSI 1070 mini and Gigabyte 1070 mini should fit as well. Hopefully this case will convince mfg to release more short cards and ideally a 1080 mini less than 175mm long.



Already have two for testing :)

Don't forget they are some AMD mini ITX cards out there too:cool:
 

JoeH823

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Complicate things? Necere has already thought to include ODD support. I'm not forcing anything, rather I asked if the support could be there since this case is ideal as an HTPC setup. Again, you don't need ODD support, then don't worry about it. Now, sure, I would be upset if someone was asking Dan's Dan A4 case to include ODD support, but this is a steam/console type case.

As for the Blu-Ray player software, there are a number of solutions. Cyberlink and ArcSoft Total Media Theater also have software that handles Blu-Rays. If you don't want to pay, Leawo exists as a free alternative.
For what it's worth, I'm not really in the market for another new case (backed the Sentry and I have a A4-SFX now - after ditching my Silverstone ML07 which did have optical support), but I thought the same thing, that having a Blu-ray drive built into the PC would be great... until I tried any of the PC software for it, which is all universally terrible. You're honestly better off remuxing to another format and playing things that way. Or using any other device (standalone player or a game console) as a Blu-ray player. I personally migrated my Blu-ray drive to my server and only use it for ripping - not direct playback anymore.
 
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This is random, but I expect some people will try to shift the PSU over to the motherboard side to fit a long graphics card. Aside from impairing proper airflow, restricting PSU intake, and having the PSU then dump heat onto the GPU, a long card with 2-3 fans will have more intake power than the 2 120x15mm fans, so it may actually end up intaking unfiltered air from the exhaust vent. In other words, lots of problems... It would be fun to see a mod like this, but not worth it IMO.
 

wahaha360

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Never implied that it had to be DC-DC only ;) But I guess that with a DC-DC psu you could support longer gpu, correct? Or more drives?
Totally, with the AC-DC brick + DC-ATX setup, you should be able to fit Zotac's 1080 Mini. You'd need to consider the 300W limitation, however. With just the DC-ATX and an external brick, there should be enough room for a full-length graphics card, though then you'd need a place to mount the 19V plug, which requires a more serious mod than just using velcro/double sided tape.
I think offering different front panels will pretty much make everyone happy on the ODD issue.
Completely agree with your points on DC-DC. Perhaps it doesn't make sense to include mounting holes for HDPlex since it's not a standard and they may change their designs in the future. I hadn't thought of that. That being said, if I get this case I am 100% going to install the HDPlex 300W internal brick with their 300W DC-ATX board. Will probably use a strip or two of strong double sided tape for the brick and velcro for the DC-ATX. I think 300W will be enough for 90% of builders in this case and having a totally passive unit, especially with the case's excellent airflow, will be very tempting.
Hi Necere this case is good by its concept. For those who is not looking for putting in a GTX 1080 it would be surely the hit.

As you have mentioned, the major problem here is the PSU. Other than the fan noise, another problem is the cable arrange in most FLEX PSU in the market seems long and hard to fit in a small case.

If possible, it would be good to have a customised FLEX PSU with a) fan with lower noise, and b) cable with a shorter length.

We have been working on the 1080 Mini / 1080 TI Mini setup for this case.

Basically, while the case *will support ODD, if you don't install the ODD (remove the ODD bracket too). The Zotac 1080 Mini, HD Plex 300W AC-DC + DC-ATX *might all fit inside the case. Both Necere and I don't like external power bricks, so we don't want people to deal with that.

Plus, we have a 1080 now, to go down to a 1070 just feels sacrilegious.

Necere will show the pictures once the tweaks are hashed out.
 
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Nathan Spears

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We have been working on the 1080 / 1080 Mini setup for this case.

Basically, while the case *will support ODD, if you don't install the ODD (remove the ODD bracket too). The Zotac 1080 Mini, HD Plex 300W AC-DC brick + DC-ATX *might all fit. Both Necere and I don't like external power bricks, so we don't want people to deal with that.

Plus, we have a 1080 now, to go down to a 1070 just feels sacrilegious.


Necere will show the pictures once the tweaks are hashed out.
Since you don't like external power bricks, does this mean you are redesigning the case?
 
D

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We have been working on the 1080 / 1080 Mini setup for this case.

Basically, while the case *will support ODD, if you don't install the ODD (remove the ODD bracket too). The Zotac 1080 Mini, HD Plex 300W AC-DC + DC-ATX *might all fit inside the case. Both Necere and I don't like external power bricks, so we don't want people to deal with that.

Plus, we have a 1080 now, to go down to a 1070 just feels sacrilegious.

Necere will show the pictures once the tweaks are hashed out.
 
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Great, I love the added flexibility! By the way, HDPlex DC-ATX units come with (or you can request) a C14 AC plug window-to-DC-in adaptor plate (think the M1's version plate, but with a hole in it), so if you can install an HDPlex board, you can use an external brick. I don't see why anyone would since as wahaha360 said, a 1080 will be possible with a totally internal solution. And you couldn't possibly power more than a 1080 with 300W. Even that will be a stretch. But the point is you get automatic support for an external brick with an HDPlex if for whatever reason you want to do that.

Looking forward to Necere 's update.
 
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klatox

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This might be a dumb question, but has this project officially been re-activated?
 
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sweets3450

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this isn't a popular request but I wish they had space for a full size drive. the mini drives are sooo loud and unless it's 20+ feet away it's very annoying
 

Necere

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This may have already been asked and answered but will this new NCase support SFX PSUs too?
No, it will not. There isn't enough physical space within the current dimensions to support SFX. Compare this case at 280mm deep vs. the Sentry at 310mm deep, which is about as short as you can go while supporting SFX at the front of the case.

this isn't a popular request but I wish they had space for a full size drive. the mini drives are sooo loud and unless it's 20+ feet away it's very annoying
A full size 5.25" optical drive? Or a 3.5" HDD? I'll assume the former, since in my experience 2.5" HDDs are very quiet.

A 5.25" drive would take up a huge amount of internal space, and would necessitate a big increase in volume if you want to keep GPU support. If you want a 5.25" drive, you're really in the market for a much bigger case. That leads me into something I want to bring up though...


On the subject of optical drive support

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like I can make both optical drive and internal HDPLEX support work. Optical drive support in general is complicated and messy, due to the crappy locations of the M2 screw holes on slim optical drives. Trying to work out flexible mounting options that allow for an optical drive and either a flex PSU or internal HDPLEX PSU is proving to be a lot of trouble, and honestly I'd rather just drop optical support altogether. But I would like your opinion on it, so:

Poll: Which do you prefer, internal HDPLEX or slim optical drive support?


To clarify, both options support a Flex PSU by default. The advantage with the HDPLEX option are 1.) the PSU is passive (no fan), and 2.) +40mm GPU length, allowing for e.g., the Zotac GTX 1080 at 211mm.
 
D

Deleted member 222586

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No, it will not. There isn't enough physical space within the current dimensions to support SFX. Compare this case at 280mm deep vs. the Sentry at 310mm deep, which is about as short as you can go while supporting SFX at the front of the case.

A full size 5.25" optical drive? Or a 3.5" HDD? I'll assume the former, since in my experience 2.5" HDDs are very quiet.

A 5.25" drive would take up a huge amount of internal space, and would necessitate a big increase in volume if you want to keep GPU support. If you want a 5.25" drive, you're really in the market for a much bigger case. That leads me into something I want to bring up though...


On the subject of optical drive support

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like I can make both optical drive and internal HDPLEX support work. Optical drive support in general is complicated and messy, due to the crappy locations of the M2 screw holes on slim optical drives. Trying to work out flexible mounting options that allow for an optical drive and either a flex PSU or internal HDPLEX PSU is proving to be a lot of trouble, and honestly I'd rather just drop optical support altogether. But I would like your opinion on it, so:

Poll: Which do you prefer, internal HDPLEX or slim optical drive support?


To clarify, both options support a Flex PSU by default. The advantage with the HDPLEX option are 1.) the PSU is passive (no fan), and 2.) +40mm GPU length, allowing for e.g., the Zotac GTX 1080 at 211mm.
Poll?

There is no competition here. HDPLEX hands-down. IMO it is a perfect fit for this project (because being passive, the airflow that the fans will provide will make it operate better), and the fact that it allows more powerful hardware makes it even better.

The ODD as an idea was good, but never at the cost of HDPLEX support.

---

With that said, though... wouldn't you have enough space for an ODD if...

a) No gpu was used.

b) a HDPLEX psu was used.

I know that I am a pain in the ass. And an asshole sometimes, though in this particular instance the ODD has 0 interest for me, but I know that it does for others, and maybe a few small modifications (on the inside) allow more people to find this design useful and, ultimately, less production price for everybody. Just food for thought.
 

goldenhk

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Not quite sure why there should be an option for the optical drive.

The only real use I can think of would be for a blue-ray drive, but for those who would mount it, they are not likely to see your post in Hardforum after all.
 

jawebb44

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hi guys,

v1 buyer here, lost my old account.


please for the love of god ignore everyone who utters "include ODD".


you're selling a design. not a "htpc".


People who are buying this design arent playing blu ray discs.
 

mTECHIE

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No, it will not. There isn't enough physical space within the current dimensions to support SFX. Compare this case at 280mm deep vs. the Sentry at 310mm deep, which is about as short as you can go while supporting SFX at the front of the case.

A full size 5.25" optical drive? Or a 3.5" HDD? I'll assume the former, since in my experience 2.5" HDDs are very quiet.

A 5.25" drive would take up a huge amount of internal space, and would necessitate a big increase in volume if you want to keep GPU support. If you want a 5.25" drive, you're really in the market for a much bigger case. That leads me into something I want to bring up though...


On the subject of optical drive support

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like I can make both optical drive and internal HDPLEX support work. Optical drive support in general is complicated and messy, due to the crappy locations of the M2 screw holes on slim optical drives. Trying to work out flexible mounting options that allow for an optical drive and either a flex PSU or internal HDPLEX PSU is proving to be a lot of trouble, and honestly I'd rather just drop optical support altogether. But I would like your opinion on it, so:

Poll: Which do you prefer, internal HDPLEX or slim optical drive support?


To clarify, both options support a Flex PSU by default. The advantage with the HDPLEX option are 1.) the PSU is passive (no fan), and 2.) +40mm GPU length, allowing for e.g., the Zotac GTX 1080 at 211mm.
Regarding the optical drive, it's make sense not to include it. :cool:
 

wahaha360

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hi guys,

v1 buyer here, lost my old account.


please for the love of god ignore everyone who utters "include ODD".


you're selling a design. not a "htpc".


People who are buying this design arent playing blu ray discs.
Agreed.

Supporting the current Zotac GTX 1080 Mini, and future 1080 and 1080 TI mini is far more important than ODD support.
 

Tyki

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69
If you really want ODD support, just get a USB external one. The apple one for example, while overpriced, would blend in perfectly if put on top of the case in a silver design. There are plenty on amazon to choose from as well.
 

Nathan Spears

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Is there an update on the timeline for this? Would this go back on Kickstarter or would you take pre-orders from your website? I'm looking at building another computer soon and would like to keep the next case in the Ncase family.
 
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