The next NCASE project: a Steam Machine-style case (indeterminate)

Anyone feeling/not feeling this more than the previous version?

ODD or not, I do like the front IO design better at the bottom like you just showed.

On another note, I'm surprised more folks don't watch Blu-Rays or use their computers as HTPCs.
 
Sure, and an earlier iteration of this concept actually had ODD support. It just feels a little frustrating when you think, you know, aren't we past spinning discs by now? So you're trying to forge ahead into the the Future™ with a design, but inevitably some holdout chimes in with "hey, what about optical drive support?" On the flipside, I also understand there's still plenty of legitimate need for it, and especially in this form factor. Plus "the customer is always right" and so on, and it would frankly be a bit foolish if I could include ODD support without any real sacrifice and not do so.

So, along those lines, with a little rearranging of components I can probably get ODD support in, looking something like this:

KQcxxPa.jpg


Anyone feeling/not feeling this more than the previous version?

I think that pretty much everybody will agree that an ODD shouldn't be featured on a computer case... BUT, since this computer case can be used as a home theater, IMO it requires it. Because if you have a decent home theater in your house you will be using bluray. There is no alterlative. And if you have to run another device on top of your case then... it destroys the purpose of having a small box in the first place.

Regarding the looks... I like this one better than the other one (disregarding the ODD since I have no use for it). But... I would not do a two-coloured panel. The contrast between sides looks good, but mixing colours in the same panel, imo, takes some elegance off it. Any chance you could render an image with the same perspective and I/O placement but without ODD and all in the same silver colour?

I don't feel the ODD. Just get an external one for the once a year you need to use an optical disc. And you'll be able to use it across machines, it's more practical in 2017. However, I definitely feel the repositioned USB ports, audio jack, and logo. In fact, I'd move the power button over to the other side of the USB ports, or maybe to the extreme other end and move the NCase logo a bit to the left. If that interferes with the drives, it's fine where it is.

You are right... if you are talking about traditional computer usage. But this new shape makes it perfectly suited for an htpc, and those need an ODD.
 
Necere,


Do you have photos of the size of this case up against other console-like cases like the Fractal Design Node 202, RVZ02 and so forth? I'd be interested in seeing how much larger those other console cases are compared to this, especially since this is using a flex ATX PSU and GPU size is being kept under 175mm.
 
I am not for an ODD option. If you do decide to go that route, perhaps make it a bit discrete like the M1.
 
To me the term "HTPC" doesn't have much meaning anymore. 20 years ago it meant a super basic, often proprietary VCR-shaped hardware specifically meant for playing video on your TV. Then DVD players came out, then Blu-Ray, and now devices like Apple TV, Chromecast, Amazon Fire TV, etc. are what mostly fills those roles. It's also much easier now to connect your TV to your PC. Heck, a lot of people don't even have TVs anymore, which is why we're seeing things like Sling TV and HBO Now, and all the other digital on-demand services that have decimated live TV and optical disc-based content. And you have consoles on the gaming side of TV.

Clearly you can do all of the above things with a PC. However, when you can cram $2000 worth of hardware into a slim PlayStation-shaped box that outperforms 95% of gaming PCs out there, it doesn't make much sense to call it "HTPC". It's just a PC like any other that's shaped in a particular way. The advances in SFF computing have completely obliterated size distinctions. You can build a system in 7L now that will perform on par with anything else out there (within reason). You can use the machine for living room video streaming and gaming, but the term HTPC suggests it's meant specifically for a role, which in turn implies it IS something different. And it's not, it's a custom PC that can be budgeted from $500 to $2000+ like any other.

Sorry for editorializing... I don't mean to start weird tangents, it's just been a slow week and it's fun for me. Maybe it's semantics, but I think HTPC is just a useless term now. I bet you the vast majority of people will buy a case like this purely for volume/footprint considerations and put it on a desk. I think a lot of people like the slim and tall design, but I see it as just a type of SFF case rather than a PC meant for a specific role. /end rant
 
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To me the term "HTPC" doesn't have much meaning anymore. 20 years ago it meant a super basic, often proprietary VCR-shaped hardware specifically meant for playing video on your TV. Then DVD players came out, then Blu-Ray, and now devices like Apple TV, Chromecast, Amazon Fire TV, etc. are what mostly fills those roles. It's also much easier now to connect your TV to your PC. Heck, a lot of people don't even have TVs anymore, which is why we're seeing things like Sling TV and HBO Now, and all the other digital on-demand services that have decimated live TV and optical disc-based content. My prediction is Blu-Ray will be dead in 10 years and so will And you have consoles on the gaming side of TV.

Clearly you can do all of the above things with a PC. However, when you can cram $2000 worth of hardware into a slim PlayStation-shaped box that outperforms 95% of gaming PCs out there, it doesn't make much sense to call it "HTPC". It's just a PC like any other that's shaped in a particular way. The advances in SFF computing have completely obliterated size distinctions. You can build a system in 7L now that will perform on par with anything else out there (within reason). You can use the machine for living room video streaming and gaming, but the term HTPC suggests it's meant specifically for a role, which in turn implies it IS something different. And it's not, it's a custom PC that can be budgeted from $500 to $2000+ like any other.

Sorry for editorializing... I don't mean to start weird tangents, it's just been a slow week and it's fun for me. Maybe it's semantics, but I think HTPC is just a useless term now. I bet you the vast majority of people will buy a case like this purely for volume/footprint considerations and put it on a desk. I think a lot of people like the slim and tall design, but I see it as just a type of SFF case rather than a PC meant for a specific role. /end rant


I think HTPC still has meaning, particularly because HTPC can do all the things a DVD player, Blu-Ray player, Apple TV, Amazon Fire TV, Sling TV can do. None of the streaming services can play DVDs or Blu-Rays. And DVD players and Blu-Ray players cannot access all the content that an HTPC can (I'm talking about services like Sling, Direct TV Now, etc.

By not including an ODD, you are effectively gimping the system and excluding a segment of the PC market that would like to have one. And not I'm not talking all about video either. Photographers still use CDs to send to people. It's cheaper than a USB flash drive and they can create a cover for the disc. I have a lot of photo albums stored on CDs from a photographer. An ODD doesn't take up much room, so why not make it accessible for those that want it. I agree with Prava about the external drive. For those that are using this steam style box as an HTPC, they don't want to have to fiddle with an external drive. Especially if the Ncase PC is front and center of their entertainment system.
 
I think HTPC still has meaning, particularly because HTPC can do all the things a DVD player, Blu-Ray player, Apple TV, Amazon Fire TV, Sling TV can do. None of the streaming services can play DVDs or Blu-Rays. And DVD players and Blu-Ray players cannot access all the content that an HTPC can (I'm talking about services like Sling, Direct TV Now, etc.

By not including an ODD, you are effectively gimping the system and excluding a segment of the PC market that would like to have one. And not I'm not talking all about video either. Photographers still use CDs to send to people. It's cheaper than a USB flash drive and they can create a cover for the disc. I have a lot of photo albums stored on CDs from a photographer. An ODD doesn't take up much room, so why not make it accessible for those that want it. I agree with Prava about the external drive. For those that are using this steam style box as an HTPC, they don't want to have to fiddle with an external drive. Especially if the Ncase PC is front and center of their entertainment system.

Fair enough, but I think the vast majority of people nowadays just subscribe to digital streaming services and get their movies thru iTunes, Google Play, etc. I know Blu-Rays have the best quality, but digital downloads are good enough and most people aren't even aware of the difference. Honestly, I think optical discs will be dead in 5-10 years. I think they're still a thing in consoles because companies hope people will walk into a store and want to buy the console, but they'll come around too.

PCs have always been able to do all the things specialized devices could do, that's why they're the best object to own haha. I agree with your point. I was making more of a philosophical argument about the label, because I think HTPCs are labeled as such because of a particular shape they have, and I don't think that alone warrants a purpose-type label in this context. And it's not like most living rooms can't fit differently shaped machines, I constantly see consoles oriented vertically, so that's a bit of a meme too. It's much more about overall volume and footprint. There's an additional factor with this case, that is because of its style, beautiful aesthetics, quality of craftsmanship and materials, and being a home for high-end custom systems, people will keep it more as a valued personal item rather than relegate it to the living room wilderness, so that's another variable to consider.

To your argument on optical discs, I'll take your word for it, but isn't it much cheaper to just share using the cloud? I'm not against an ODD in this case, but I'd prefer if it was an option like the M1, and you could choose to get a front panel without it and use the space to mount an SSD instead. And I think on ODD-enabled cases, it should be much more subtle than Necere's last render, maybe just a slit. Otherwise, the case would look too much like a Blu-Ray player. My M1 has been a conversation starter, I want this case to be one too. :)

Thanks for indulging my brain fart.
 
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To me the term "HTPC" doesn't have much meaning anymore. 20 years ago it meant a super basic, often proprietary VCR-shaped hardware specifically meant for playing video on your TV. Then DVD players came out, then Blu-Ray, and now devices like Apple TV, Chromecast, Amazon Fire TV, etc. are what mostly fills those roles. It's also much easier now to connect your TV to your PC. Heck, a lot of people don't even have TVs anymore, which is why we're seeing things like Sling TV and HBO Now, and all the other digital on-demand services that have decimated live TV and optical disc-based content. My prediction is Blu-Ray will be dead in 10 years and so will And you have consoles on the gaming side of TV.

Clearly you can do all of the above things with a PC. However, when you can cram $2000 worth of hardware into a slim PlayStation-shaped box that outperforms 95% of gaming PCs out there, it doesn't make much sense to call it "HTPC". It's just a PC like any other that's shaped in a particular way. The advances in SFF computing have completely obliterated size distinctions. You can build a system in 7L now that will perform on par with anything else out there (within reason). You can use the machine for living room video streaming and gaming, but the term HTPC suggests it's meant specifically for a role, which in turn implies it IS something different. And it's not, it's a custom PC that can be budgeted from $500 to $2000+ like any other.

Sorry for editorializing... I don't mean to start weird tangents, it's just been a slow week and it's fun for me. Maybe it's semantics, but I think HTPC is just a useless term now. I bet you the vast majority of people will buy a case like this purely for volume/footprint considerations and put it on a desk. I think a lot of people like the slim and tall design, but I see it as just a type of SFF case rather than a PC meant for a specific role. /end rant

But there is a huge difference here: a gaming computer requires a dedicated gpu whereas an htpc does not. At the same time, an HTPC requires a lot of drive-space whereas the gaming computer does not. So... they compliment each other. You can put stuff into the space the gpu uses and if by any chance you can find space for an ODD the people who want to buy a premium enclosure for their living rooms have another option.

I do agree, though, that the term HTPC suggests it is meant specifically for a role. It is. So, you are right. In any case, a 7L enclosure can only do one thing right. But it is easier to sell a design when it can do two mutually exclusive things rather than just one, does it not?

PS: and of course, people will buy a case because they like a design. But at the end of the day, a computer case is not a statue nor a painting: it serves a purpose. And the purpose is to put shit in it. So, if you like the design and need an HTPC... either the case can work as an htpc enclosure or you have no need for it and won't probably buy it. In any case, a product that is more flexible is easier to sell, and in this case it seems that adding that extra flexibility doesn't hinder its ability to operate for its primary function.


Necere is there any chance you have considered how would the usability of this new design change if you were to use a DC-DC psu? In my opinion this new design should work very well because...

a) Gpu have huge size constraints. This, by itself, removes all high-power sku, which translates into mandatory lower-power components.

b) Case features active ventilation. This works wonders with DC-DC psu.

c) Case is really small, so removing something as big as a psu will be beneficial for certain.

d) DC-DC are passive, so you are in fact removing a fan from the system and making the whole thing more silent.

I'm saying this because the DC-DC market seems to be better than ever, and on such a small design it only makes sense not to leave any stone unturned...
 
Fair enough, but I think the vast majority of people nowadays just subscribe to digital streaming services and get their movies thru iTunes, Google Play, etc. I know Blu-Rays have the best quality, but digital downloads are good enough and most people aren't even aware of the difference. Honestly, I think optical discs will be dead in 5-10 years. I think they're still a thing in consoles because companies hope people will walk into a store and want to buy the console, but they'll come around too.

PCs have always been able to do all things other devices can do, that's why they're the best object to own haha. I agree with your point. I was making more of a philosophical argument about the label, because I think HTPCs are labeled as such because of a particular shape they have, and I don't think that alone warrants a purpose-type label in this context. And it's not like most living rooms can't fit differently shaped machines, I constantly see consoles oriented vertically, so that's a bit of a meme too. It's much more about overall volume and footprint. There's an additional factor with this case, that is because of its style, beautiful aesthetics, quality of craftsmanship and materials, and being a home for high-end custom systems, people will keep it more as a valued personal item rather than relegate it to the living room wilderness, so that's another variable to consider.

To your argument on optical discs, I'll take your word for it, but isn't it much cheaper to just share using the cloud? I'm not against an ODD in this case, but I'd prefer if it was an option like the M1, and you could choose to get a front panel without it and use the space to mount an SSD instead. And I think on ODD-enabled cases, it should be much more subtle than Necere's last render, maybe just a slit. Otherwise, the case would look too much like a Blu-Ray player. My M1 has been a conversation starter, I want this case to be one too. :)

Thanks for indulging my brain fart.

I do agree with your last point about the ODD design on the front panel. It would look way better if it was just a slit and didn't have the other parts to it that make it look busy. I'm thinking like what's found on Macbooks or an XBOX.


As to the cloud scenario, I agree with you to an extent. The problem with the cloud is that I would have to upload a lot of albums and free services (Google photos) only offer a certain resolution. Lastly, because the photos were taken several years ago, the cloud wasn't a viable option then.
 
I kind of see QuantumBraced's point here. The HTPC has sort of changed as a result of the industry doing its best to shift people away from their PC's for TV watching to Smart TV's, Roku's, Xbox Ones, and so on. I say this as someone who has been building and using HTPC's since 2005. PC's still are in the dark ages when it comes to 4K (legal) streaming. The HTPC crowd has been essentially gimped. So if we are talking about a new "HTPC" that is truly going to be the one device to rule them all (I question if that is possible these days, especially if you want 4K streaming) and if we are talking an ODD for home theater use, if I am building a PC in late 2017 or 2018 or 2019 or whenever this would come out, I wouldn't really want to settle for anything less than a UHD Blu Ray drive. As far as I can tell those don't yet exist in slim versions, with UHD PC drives only recently being released (and predictably expensive). And then if you have a fancy surround set up, you are going to need to make sure you can support atmos or DTS:X and blah blah blah. Plus you are going to need Kaby Lake or better plus whatever other silly hardware HDCP crap they are going to lay on top of this. Look at the Netflix 4K silliness as an example of how little the industry wants us to be watching 4K content through our PC's legally. I suppose we can hope the trend continues and 4K streaming and UHD blu ray watching becomes easier on PC's, but that's not guaranteed. Remember Intel thought they were going to convince the industry to stream HD content (1080p) back in the Sandy Bridge days, and that took way longer than expected.

I don't know, my take would be when it comes to blu ray playback, it is worth it having a dedicated device, and most people with nice home theater set ups probably already have one. It's just less of a pain in the ass. Then again if a 1080p blu ray drive is deemed sufficient all of this is irrelevant! /rant over
 
2) A slot-load ODD on the side, which requires changing the vent pattern locally there.
The drive won't fit in that orientation, unfortunately.

One problem with slim slot-loading drives is they seem to be disappearing from the market. At this point, the only readily available 12.7mm thick slim slot loader is a Silverstone model, and they seem content to price gouge on it. Supporting non-slot loaders opens up the market quite a bit.

Having said that, the way I envision designing the front I/O section makes it fairly straightforward to offer separate cover panels that could support a regular ODD, slot-loading, or no ODD.

Necere,

Do you have photos of the size of this case up against other console-like cases like the Fractal Design Node 202, RVZ02 and so forth?
Here it is against a Node 202 model I pulled off 3dwarehouse. Dimensions seem correct:

EHfm8mZ.png


Necere is there any chance you have considered how would the usability of this new design change if you were to use a DC-DC psu?
It's something I'll look at supporting. I don't particularly want to get locked into a proprietary form factor, though, or be reliant on a single vendor. FlexATX is a standard, which gives us and the user more choice in the long run, which is what I'd prefer to keep as the default option. Dropping FlexATX support entirely and going DC-DC only really achieves significant volume reduction in this design if you use an external power brick.
 
I think offering different front panels will pretty much make everyone happy on the ODD issue.
It's something I'll look at supporting. I don't particularly want to get locked into a proprietary form factor, though, or be reliant on a single vendor. FlexATX is a standard, which gives us and the user more choice in the long run, which is what I'd prefer to keep as the default option. Dropping FlexATX support entirely and going DC-DC only really achieves significant volume reduction in this design if you use an external power brick.

It's true, provided consumer-friendly Flex ATX units will start appearing. Right now there are a few available to consumers, one from FSP at 400W and a 500W that's not currently available, but they are not modular, have long red/yellow cables, including lots of SATA/molex that won't be needed here, are not black, and some don't deliver enough current on 12v to power a 1070, so they're still server-oriented. I hope Freilicht is successful with his custom FSP 500W, but I'm not sure it will be a trend. Do you plan on requesting a custom design for the case and offering it bundled as an option or is it too early to tell?

Completely agree with your points on DC-DC. Perhaps it doesn't make sense to include mounting holes for HDPlex since it's not a standard and they may change their designs in the future. I hadn't thought of that. That being said, if I get this case I am 100% going to install the HDPlex 300W internal brick with their 300W DC-ATX board. Will probably use a strip or two of strong double sided tape for the brick and velcro for the DC-ATX. I think 300W will be enough for 90% of builders in this case and having a totally passive unit, especially with the case's excellent airflow, will be very tempting.
 
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It's something I'll look at supporting. I don't particularly want to get locked into a proprietary form factor, though, or be reliant on a single vendor. FlexATX is a standard, which gives us and the user more choice in the long run, which is what I'd prefer to keep as the default option. Dropping FlexATX support entirely and going DC-DC only really achieves significant volume reduction in this design if you use an external power brick.

Never implied that it had to be DC-DC only ;) But I guess that with a DC-DC psu you could support longer gpu, correct? Or more drives?
 
I think offering different front panels will pretty much make everyone happy on the ODD issue.


It's true, provided consumer-friendly Flex ATX units will start appearing. Right now there are a few available to consumers, one from FSP at 400W and a 500W that's not currently available, but they are not modular, have long red/yellow cables, including lots of SATA/molex that won't be needed here, are not black, and some don't deliver enough current on 12v to power a 1070, so they're still server-oriented. I hope Freilicht is successful with his custom FSP 500W, but I'm not sure it will be a trend. Do you plan on requesting a custom design for the case and offering it bundled as an option or is it too early to tell?

Necere already has one custom flex in possession, another one should be delivered this week :)

Necere has to find time this week to do some testing.

500W is not the limit for Flex, so it's only going to be more exciting.
 
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Never implied that it had to be DC-DC only ;) But I guess that with a DC-DC psu you could support longer gpu, correct? Or more drives?

Officially, the case doesn't support cards longer than 175mm, but we know people (including myself) are going to explore.

I think 1080/1080TI mini + 800W Flex (with fanless mode) would be interesting.



EcaWnPFl.png



If you look at this graph, with fanless mode, a 600W-800W Flex will resolve a lot of the concern about flex fan noise.

If you can buy a 600W-800W Flex for the price of the AC-DC+DC-DC or brick+DC-DC, supporting DC-DC just makes less sense.

I know 600W-800W flex options are not available now, so we just need to try our best and make these options are available when this case is :)
 
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Never implied that it had to be DC-DC only ;) But I guess that with a DC-DC psu you could support longer gpu, correct? Or more drives?

Totally, with the AC-DC brick + DC-ATX setup, you should be able to fit Zotac's 1080 Mini. You'd need to consider the 300W limitation, however. With just the DC-ATX and an external brick, there should be enough room for a full-length graphics card, though then you'd need a place to mount the 19V plug, which requires a more serious mod than just using velcro/double sided tape.

For drives, I think you'd be a few mm short on the motherboard side for a 3.5" drive and you'd block airflow. On the GPU side, if you use a DC-ATX with an external brick (again, requiring a mod) and a very short card e.g. the EVGA 1050 Ti, you should be able to fit a 3.5" drive there... You should also be able to fit a 3.5" in place of the graphics card for a NAS-type build. Though you really shouldn't be getting this case if you need 3.5" drives. For 2.5", the case officially supports 2 (I suppose for optimal airflow), but I don't see why you couldn't stack more.

These are all my estimates and I could be wrong! Without Necere's confirmation, take them with a big grain of salt.
Necere already has one custom flex in possession, another one should be delivered this week :)

Just have to do some testing in this week.

Oh awesome, looking forward to it!
 
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Totally, with the AC-DC brick + DC-ATX setup I described above, you should be able to fit Zotac's 1080 Mini. You'd need to consider the 300W limitation, however. With just the DC-ATX and an external brick, there should be enough room for a full-length graphics card, though then you'd need a place to mount the 19V plug, which requires a more serious mod than just using velcro/double sided tape.

EcaWnPFl.png



If you look at this graph, with fanless mode, a 600W-800W Flex will resolve a lot of the concern about flex fan noise.
 
If you look at this graph, with fanless mode, a 600W-800W Flex will resolve a lot of the concern about flex fan noise.

I know 600W-800W flex options are not available now, so we just need to try our best and make these options are available when this case is :)

That would be amazing, although I think the 500W is already an incredible engineering achievement with over 1000W/liter. I can't imagine they'd able to cram much more than that even with Titanium efficiency. I would love to see a 300-350W passive unit.
 
Necere Why size are the square vents on the side, and does it restrict airflow compared to traditional circular?
Yeah I've been thinking about that a bit. In the renders the holes are 4mm square with 7mm spacing, which gives an open area of 32.7%. Compare that with the 3mm round/45 degree holes on the M1/A4/other Lian Li cases at 39.3%. It's not an insignificant reduction, so I may have to consider going back to using staggered round holes, or at least reduce the hole spacing.
 
Something I was considering was to use a different finish on the top cover vs. the rest of the case (including the front I/O strip), so even on a black case you get a bit of two-tone effect:

hTiF7n1.jpg


Think matte black for the case and more of a satin or brushed finish on the cover.
 
bifrost-insitu-1920.jpg

The Initial colors and shape kind of share the look of Schiit Audio products which I very much like.

The two tone black looks good though!!
 
Something I was considering was to use a different finish on the top cover vs. the rest of the case (including the front I/O strip), so even on a black case you get a bit of two-tone effect:

hTiF7n1.jpg


Think matte black for the case and more of a satin or brushed finish on the cover.

That is gorgeous.

Edit:
But as much as the square holes stand out, aesthetically they seem too much.
 
I've been doing a little work on a new concept that is very much in the vein of a Steam Machine/console style case, so I figured I'd post it here and see what people think. Here's a WIP render:

gZoliwh.jpg



This is a smaller case than the concept/prototype LRPC from the OP, intended more for smaller and lower TDP builds, but still very suitable for a small console-like gaming machine.

Preliminary specs:
  • Dimensions: 75 x 340 x 280mm, 7.1L
  • CPU cooler: up to 47mm
  • GPU: up to 175mm
  • PSU: FlexATX
  • Drives: 2x 2.5"
  • Fans: 2x 120x15mm (one shares CPU cooler space), dust filtered

Let me address a few things right off the bat:
  • GPU size is a limitation, but the size and cooling potential of the chassis is best suited for lower power/lower TDP parts, so it would only prevent you from using parts you really shouldn't anyway.
  • Yes, FlexATX PSUs have small fans which can be loud under load. Limiting the case to short GPUs is a way of enforcing an upper limit on power usage, which should help with fan noise. The system airflow is also designed to feed into the PSU, taking some of the burden off its internal fan. Nevertheless, I'll be testing a couple of different Flex units and if they turn out to be unsatisfactory, we won't proceed.
  • We will probably have to offer the PSU for sale alongside the case.
  • Given the stricter PSU and GPU limitations, why choose this over another ~7L case? Basically, this case trades off wider component support for dedicated case fans, directed system airflow, and dust filtering. It's also not as deep as some other cases, which might make it preferable for a system that sits on a desk.

So... thoughts, feelings, criticisms?

I like this concept - very clean and simple. The main nugget when it come to any small form factor [console/steaming] case is heat - no one like heat. Keep up good work, Necere. Hopefully your concept design (whatever you have in mind) become a reality. :cool:
 
Internal structure is already mostly worked out:

s0vbItx.png


Airflow concept works like this: air enters the two slim 120mm intake fans on the top, providing cooling to the CPU/motherboard/drives, then flows to the left past and through the PSU and GPU, exhausting out the left side vents. The only ventilation holes are those on the top and left side, so the airflow path is pretty well defined. There's about a 20mm gap between the case floor and the GPU, so it's got enough room for intake inside the case without needing any ventilation on the bottom.
TFX is kind of an awkward form factor IMO. It's almost twice the volume of flex, so the gains vs. SFX aren't as apparent. Sure, the bigger fan is nice in theory, but besides that it doesn't have much going for it. If we can't make flex work because of the noise level, then it's still something I may look at, though.
I want to use a single TRRS jack for combined headphone/mic. The front I/O is not final, though, and will probably also include a Type C port.
With 5TB 2.5" mechanical drives available now, it's increasingly difficult to justify 3.5" HDD support in an SFF case, IMO. At best, I might include a mounting option for a drive in place of the GPU.

Necere, I'd thought (IMHO) that you could place the ventilation on the bottom where the GPU (so that the GPU could draw air outside or push out air) for adequate cooling. All in all, the concept look well define. And I'd say a shorter GPU would be a idea, given that all other componets put in a confine space. No need for 3.5 HDDs (IMHO).
 
Sure, and an earlier iteration of this concept actually had ODD support. It just feels a little frustrating when you think, you know, aren't we past spinning discs by now? So you're trying to forge ahead into the the Future™ with a design, but inevitably some holdout chimes in with "hey, what about optical drive support?" On the flipside, I also understand there's still plenty of legitimate need for it, and especially in this form factor. Plus "the customer is always right" and so on, and it would frankly be a bit foolish if I could include ODD support without any real sacrifice and not do so.

So, along those lines, with a little rearranging of components I can probably get ODD support in, looking something like this:

KQcxxPa.jpg


Anyone feeling/not feeling this more than the previous version?

Necere, I wonder how the inside look with the OOD in place. I suspected there are two camps out there: those who don't care OOD and those who opt for ODD (such as Blu-Ray)
 
Love this front IO iteration much more. Has a much cleaner, separate look than the previous one.
 
Something I was considering was to use a different finish on the top cover vs. the rest of the case (including the front I/O strip), so even on a black case you get a bit of two-tone effect:

hTiF7n1.jpg


Think matte black for the case and more of a satin or brushed finish on the cover.

Something is very wrong here... I'm throwing money at the screen but nothing happens :whistle::whistle::whistle:
 
Necere, I'd thought (IMHO) that you could place the ventilation on the bottom where the GPU (so that the GPU could draw air outside or push out air) for adequate cooling
The case is designed so that everything is working together to get the air moving in one direction through the case: the 120mm fans draw air in through the top, it takes an immediate right angle turn at the motherboard, then is drawn in by the PSU and GPU fans, and exhausted out the side. Adding bottom vents would be counterproductive to this airflow scheme.

Something is very wrong here... I'm throwing money at the screen but nothing happens :whistle::whistle::whistle:
An unqualified statement of approval from prava?? /checks outside for flying pigs :p


Well, it seems like the IO on the bottom is the definite favorite, so that's the direction I'll be working on going forward.
 
If you're just using it for watching Blu-rays, isn't a dedicated BD player all around better for that?

Yes, very much yes.

Why would the folks that peruse Hardforum want a dedicated blu-ray player when they can make their own PC that does everything a blu-ray player can and more?

Because using a pc for disc playback is a major pain in the behind, in practice. I've been doing that since the early days of dvd and still have an htpc with blu-ray disc playback, but I've quit using it for that (I'm only using it for streaming nowadays).

Why? PowerDVD. I've had countless problems with that piece of crap bloatware since forever; system freezes, bluescreens, sometimes extremely slow disc loading, having to restart the system 1-2 times to get the disc playing at all and so on. I've never had any other problems with my htpc's over the years, PowerDVD has always been the cause of all pain.

Also, at least for now it's impossible to play UHD blu-ray on a pc.
 
Yes, very much yes.



Because using a pc for disc playback is a major pain in the behind, in practice. I've been doing that since the early days of dvd and still have an htpc with blu-ray disc playback, but I've quit using it for that (I'm only using it for streaming nowadays).

Why? PowerDVD. I've had countless problems with that piece of crap bloatware since forever; system freezes, bluescreens, sometimes extremely slow disc loading, having to restart the system 1-2 times to get the disc playing at all and so on. I've never had any other problems with my htpc's over the years, PowerDVD has always been the cause of all pain.

Also, at least for now it's impossible to play UHD blu-ray on a pc.

I do think that a dedicated Blu-Ray player is more convenient, but that's a weak argument to blame one piece of software, when there are other options, for the SOLE reason why you don't use your PC for Blu-Ray playback.

If you don't want to use Blu-Ray on your PC, then don't use it. It's not like you don't have that choice. If some people want to use a Blu-Rays in a HTPC type scenario, why not let them. Having a choice is better than no choice at all. That's the beauty of PCs. Choices abound.
 
I do think that a dedicated Blu-Ray player is more convenient, but that's a weak argument to blame one piece of software, when there are other options, for the SOLE reason why you don't use your PC for Blu-Ray playback.

If you don't want to use Blu-Ray on your PC, then don't use it. It's not like you don't have that choice. If some people want to use a Blu-Rays in a HTPC type scenario, why not let them. Having a choice is better than no choice at all. That's the beauty of PCs. Choices abound.

Which option would that be? There has only ever existed one software player that handles all formats (and actually performs correct 2:3 pulldown). It also happens to be highly unreliable and frustrating crap. Are there even any other alternatives still alive?

There are incredibly many already existing case alternatives with ODD support. It's frankly annoying that every single time somebody presents a nice new SFF case concept, there's always somebody trying to complicate things by forcing ODD support into it.
 
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Which option would that be? There has only ever existed one software player that handles all formats (and actually performs correct 2:3 pulldown). It also happens to be highly unreliable and frustrating crap. Are there even any other alternatives still alive?

There are incredibly many already existing case alternatives with ODD support. It's frankly annoying that every single time somebody presents a nice new SFF case concept, there's always somebody trying to complicate things by forcing ODD support into it.

Complicate things? Necere has already thought to include ODD support. I'm not forcing anything, rather I asked if the support could be there since this case is ideal as an HTPC setup. Again, you don't need ODD support, then don't worry about it. Now, sure, I would be upset if someone was asking Dan's Dan A4 case to include ODD support, but this is a steam/console type case.

As for the Blu-Ray player software, there are a number of solutions. Cyberlink and ArcSoft Total Media Theater also have software that handles Blu-Rays. If you don't want to pay, Leawo exists as a free alternative.
 
Complicate things? Necere has already thought to include ODD support. I'm not forcing anything, rather I asked if the support could be there since this case is ideal as an HTPC setup. Again, you don't need ODD support, then don't worry about it. Now, sure, I would be upset if someone was asking Dan's Dan A4 case to include ODD support, but this is a steam/console type case.

As for the Blu-Ray player software, there are a number of solutions. Cyberlink and ArcSoft Total Media Theater also have software that handles Blu-Rays. If you don't want to pay, Leawo exists as a free alternative.

I neither can nor should speak for Necere, but as far as I recall from both the massive M1 thread and this one, he would actually prefer skipping ODD support. If space can be saved and the case becomes less complex (potentially cheaper to manufacture) without ODD support, then ODD support should don the dunce hat and go sit in a corner IMNSHO. :p

Yes, the "one and only" PowerDVD which I'm talking about is a Cyberlink product (which I've paid quite a lot for in total over the years, until I finally gave up). ArcSoft Total Media Theater has been discontinued. Never even heard of Leawo, but sure, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt (although that's a rather massive doubt, considering how complex "perfect" dvd/bd-playback actually is).

A Steam case would pretty much by definition have zero need for ODD.
 
An unqualified statement of approval from prava?? /checks outside for flying pigs :p


Well, it seems like the IO on the bottom is the definite favorite, so that's the direction I'll be working on going forward.

Don't get used to it (y)

Regarding IO on the bottom...IMO, it isn't like the IO there is in the perfect placement... but rather that having a piece for it in a different colour that extends the whole wideness of the case makes more sense aesthetically rather than having a rectangle in the middle of the case.
 
Hi Necere this case is good by its concept. For those who is not looking for putting in a GTX 1080 it would be surely the hit.

The layout looks great, and since it limits GPU to mostly GTX 1060, heat should not be a problem at all as the card drives low heat (I have the card myself). This already captured a lot the market.

Please test for Ryzen, as it seems to be the next hit in the market. I am not sure the heat factors in those CPUs.

As you have mentioned, the major problem here is the PSU. Other than the fan noise, another problem is the cable arrange in most FLEX PSU in the market seems long and hard to fit in a small case.

If possible, it would be good to have a customised FLEX PSU with a) fan with lower noise, and b) cable with a shorter length.

I understand this would certainly drive the price up, but they are to me the keys of this project's success.

Perhaps you can offer two options, one with generic PSU and one with customised PSU.
 
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