The New Watercool MORA IV is MASSIVE

[Zarathustra[H]]

Pains me he used Corsair fans on it. I would of just used 200mm noctua's...Or Arctic fans if I wanted a good blend of noise/performance. But I'm biased towards them. Love my Mo-ra3 with the 200mm noctua choice. Can barely hear the thing running, and my water temps are always just barely above ambient. It's great.

I have a Noctua 200mm fan as a case fan in my backup workstation / testbench build (built into an OG Phanteks Enthoo Pro case)

If I am going to be honest, I have to admit I have been pretty underwhelmed by it.

At higher speeds it has an audible hum (not just a white noise whoosh). To get it to behave and not be annoying in that case I had to use the included Noctua speed reducing adapter (essential a resistor in a short fan extension cable). This was in part due to the fact that I have an old Supermicro server board in that case, and server motherboards generally don't have the best fan speed control for desktop/workstation use.

That fan just doesn't seem to produce a good airflow to noise ratio IMHO, and static pressure is utter garbage.


For this reason I had originally planned on going with the 140mm fans like Der8auer did above. I always like to push/pull everything with strong high static pressure fans, but after talking to the Watercool folks they essentially told me it was optimized for low static pressure fans like the 200mm Noctua, so I wouldn't gain much by using 140mm fans, and would probably just make cable routing a nightmare, as the 140mm fan bracket doesn't have the built in cable routing that the 200mm fan bracket does.

So I took their advice and ordered the 200mm bracket.

With two of the MORA IV 600 bad boys, my cooling capacity is going to be so overkill anyway, that it probably won't matter, and they are going to sit in another room from my office, so I probably won't hear the hum, if there is any. (it's possibly my one previous 200mm Noctua fan was defective or something)

All of that said, I used to be a huge fan of Noctua fans. I went with their Industrial PPC line of fans for my current build 5 years ago:

22 of them in fact. 16x 120mm fans on the front two 480 rads and 6x 140mm fans on the top 420mm rad, but I had nothing but issues with them.

Noctua - at some point - altered the circuits on their fans such that if you use PWM splitters to run multiple fans per channel the speeds don't work right, resulting in a behavior something like this:

0% PWM -> 0% Fan Speed
10% PWM -> 0% Fan Speed
20% PWM -> 0% Fan Speed
30% PWM -> 0% Fan Speed
40% PWM -> 0% Fan Speed
50% PWM -> 0% Fan Speed
60% PWM -> 0% Fan Speed
70% PWM -> 0% Fan Speed
80% PWM -> 0% Fan Speed
85% PWM -> 20% Fan Speed
90% PWM -> 50% Fan Speed
95% PWM -> 75% Fan Speed
100% PWM -> 100% Fan Speed

This was with 8 fans per pwm header on my Aquaero's. The more fans per channel, the worse it gets.

After much troubleshooting and many forum posts, it became clear that Noctua was the issue. The Aquacomputer folks recommended using another fan brand, and mentioned they had good luck with Arctic. so I ordered all Arctiv P12 and P14 fans instead, and they indeed did work as expected with fan control, but their peak performance wasn't as good.

After communicating with Noctua, they actually offered to take all the fans back and replace them with older revision fans that didn't have this problem, which I took them up on, and in my next refresh of the system I put all Noctua fans back in.

This experience soured me a little on Noctua fans to be honest (though their customer service was absolutely excellent) and I ahve been researching alternate fans to use for future builds ever since.

Either way, it seems like no one else makes a decent 200mm fan with PWM control, and Watercool specifically recommends using Noctua's 200mm with these radiators, so that's what I am going to do.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

It's not uncommon at all.
PC cooling components aren't really designed/engineered by folks in the industrial trades using accepted practices. Unfortunately it follows more of appearance over everything else and if it works even half ass, count yourself as being lucky!

Proper testing is very expensive and this is why these companies don't bother. They'll promise you the moon, but the reality is when expecting a rocket you wind up with a lawn dart! Eddy/EK anyone? ;-)

The ideal environment is total darkness. No component should even be translucent. No lighting whatsoever. And tubing/pipe that absolutely will not leach out organic residuals within the operating temperature range and pH.

Agreed with most of this. I wish PC water cooling parts were more industrial in nature, and less focused on aesthetics, but it is what it is.

The other issue is microbial growth and dissolved gases such as oxygen and nitrogen. A pump operating with too low of a suction pressure can induce cavitation in the fluid and cause bubbles to form. This is also very undesirable.

The ideal coolant is highly purified water (> 18 MegOhm/cm) and a source of purified silver ions to keep things sterile. Quality goes downhill from there. Dyes, things to improve wetting, thermal conductivity(!), et al are un necessary and un needed for sure!

I do like using coolants with surfactants though, as it makes getting air bubbles out of complex loops MUCH easier.

I'm not a huge fan of using silver kill coils though, due to the potential for galvanic corrosion due to dissimilar metals.

My take has generally been that one of the best coolants for PC use is just a distilled water/glycol mixture.

The glycol will reduce the thermal conductivity of the solution a little bit, but on the flip side with a high enough concentration it acts as a surfactant, a corrosion inhibitor and a prevents microbial growth, which are all plusses as far as I am concerned. I think it is a worthwhile tradeoff.

Dow Chemical used to have a really good white paper on their customer support portal on htis subject, but sadly they ahve since taken it down

My recollection is that they said that at ~20% distilled water/glycol (I forget if it was ethylene or propylene glycol) mix is where you hit the sweet spot for anti-microbial properties. If you get the concentration wrong though, microbes can actually feed on the stuff. I wish I could find their paper again and use it to mix my own coolant. It used to be at this link, but it is dead now, and it does not appear to ever have been archived on the Internet Archive

Because of this, I am likely just going to run a pre-formulated coolant rather than trying to mix my own. I lean towards clear minimalist coolants though, not the over the top cosmetic ones.

Im not a huge fan of dyes and the like. In my current loop I use EK coolants. I went with them because of the old Nickel issues EK used to have back in the day. Since my GPU block is EK, I wanted to make sure I used a coolant that is validated for their plating process rather than messing around with other things.

I was always turned off by just how much dye they use in the coolants. I thought a small amount might not be a bad idea just to help with visibility of coolant levels and to help spot leaks during leak testing, but they put so damn much in the mix as to be ridiculous. So I mixed up a batch of 1 blue EK conentrate, and three clear EK concentrate bottles to get less of the dye, and it is still pretty damn blue.

When I ran 100% blue EK coolant in my old loop, so damn much dye got stuck in the loop. It took forever to clean them out after disassembling it. I'm never doing that again.

For filtering, a properly sized spindown filter with 100 micron mesh is good for capturing the bigger stuff and you can go down to as low as .1 micron to remove most microbial contaminants. If you're sure the system components can handle deep enough vacuum, you can pull it down to remove dissolved gasses but not so much that the water boils out either! Some will preboil their water to removed dissolved O2, for example but it's important to keep everything flooded and reservoirs filled to avoid gas exchange. An expansion receiver near the top allows it to collect, prevent press out from high temperature expansion and is out of the area of flow/turbulence which keeps exchange down.

More complex systems will measure conductivty and oxidation-reduction potential (ORP) on a continuous basis to track trends pointing to degradation.

You have any links for those filters you are talking about? I gather these are industrial parts, so I'll have to adapt them to G1/4 fittings myself?

I'm probably not going to run the filters in the loop, as that sacrifices flow too much, but I would use them as part of my initial flush just to make sure they are clean before going live.

Come to think of it though, the way I plan on running my loop is with the radiators separate from the blocks on separate pumps. The flow rate is most critical over the blocks. If I were to install filters in the loop only after the radiators, it would only impact radiator flow rate... It might be feasible to run the system with them in there after all.

That said, since I have never had a problem after thoroughly flushing, I probably won't bother. It will make the pumps work harder for the same flow rate, and the pumps themselves dump heat into the loop, so I don't want that if I can avoid it.

 

[cpufrost]

This will suffice:

https://www.amazon.com/GQJQ-Reusabl...efix=stainless+steel+spindown,aps,143&sr=8-35


You can add other filters in line as needed.

This is for pre deploy work only. I do NOT recommend having a filter in an active water cooling circuit! Especially if the growth of microbes cannot be controlled. It will be a point for them to grow and slime the hell out of everything resulting in fouling particularly if the fluid has exposure to light.

Silver strips/coils are effective but they need to be as pure as possible. 99% isn't enough.

And you must ensure that all other wetted parts that are metal are the same are at least as close as possible on the differential scale of galvanic potential. Otherwise there will be current flow and corrosion. Additives are fine but you have to keep contaminates out! And use the purest water you can find to start. Never handle wetted parts with bare hands. Think of it as surgery and you don't want to risk infection!

I have systems that have been in service since early 2011, never had water changed and the water is crystal clear when drained and wetted parts are slime and dirt free. Prep is everything to a long, trouble free run. Of course most enthusiasts are changing shit in their system more frequently then they change socks so they don't notice. ;-)

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

This will suffice:

https://www.amazon.com/GQJQ-Reusable-Sediment-Stainless-Machines/dp/B0CSJR6JGD?crid=QMSX8H9JFQ5E&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.lSE3UoNhUMmY0ZK1JacJ_wAvt0lSmy3KsztokPIYN3rxZuejreH-6vlxE5u1IXfqsvf8tpEfHU6_x_tkJeHXduFxa6j6ThA_U0Cf9BwVPoOJBz9C5s0aT7zfNKZBvU6Uxt-o3pVKLyAXSBxK7D6xiwyi4MjUeshvOrUuZ3r6X7jDu57ejz6oXYvweaxTMjCly0nFjGqjDq0MCB48BqHRdmOBta_v0qntH61SpmKaNZapPGTPgZX5S2BXSzKBLGBCWG_9kpAs2MOQzX__mJZtdrqVJCLt81PInumE9_8mnKJTOG_HaRPcwSNRjG1c921EoirD2Hu2Puv4srFNRqvdYk_YIK6IVGQuXm5ANWiYcJopXeAXGk70fLq8bf51E0m_mLWLLvmaXXYIs7lE5ii2MWDOdNU5s_KQ8tDKUFE3nxkVE9XKuIsi8KKIxSE19Aq4.JX07J3HX5su-nmKoUycbMxRY4qU2am9tZ1Dn_TFNNHI&dib_tag=se&keywords=stainless+steel+spindown+filter&qid=1735680824&sprefix=stainless+steel+spindown,aps,143&sr=8-35


You can add other filters in line as needed.

This is for pre deploy work only. I do NOT recommend having a filter in an active water cooling circuit! Especially if the growth of microbes cannot be controlled. It will be a point for them to grow and slime the hell out of everything resulting in fouling particularly if the fluid has exposure to light.

Silver strips/coils are effective but they need to be as pure as possible. 99% isn't enough.

And you must ensure that all other wetted parts that are metal are the same are at least as close as possible on the differential scale of galvanic potential. Otherwise there will be current flow and corrosion. Additives are fine but you have to keep contaminates out! And use the purest water you can find to start. Never handle wetted parts with bare hands. Think of it as surgery and you don't want to risk infection!

Indeed. I've always done this as well. Maintained everything as clean as possible.

I haven't run my systems quite as long without changing the fluid, but my current desktop build has been using the same fluid since 2019. I meant to change it out, but it still looks fine, and I just never got around to it.

I have systems that have been in service since early 2011, never had water changed and the water is crystal clear when drained and wetted parts are slime and dirt free. Prep is everything to a long, trouble free run. Of course most enthusiasts are changing shit in their system more frequently then they change socks so they don't notice. ;-)

I do upgrade more frequently than many, but putting a few strategically located QDC's in my loop so I can in-place replace key components has been a godsend.

Best decision I ever made.

 

[cpufrost]

QDCs are nice, especially the ones that don't leak! ;-)

If you want GIANT fan coil style rads that are good quality for the money, the MORAs are good I will say that.

Probably the funniest design I saw was three of them bolted near the ceiling beneath a ceiling fan. The load was low enough that it ran things fine fully passive and in the winter the owner ran the fan and it helped with heating. Water temperature never higher than a degree above ambient and a single RD30 pump was the prime mover. They do hum especially at 30V but pack a punch. Makes the D5 look like a toy.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

This will suffice:

https://www.amazon.com/GQJQ-Reusable-Sediment-Stainless-Machines/dp/B0CSJR6JGD?crid=QMSX8H9JFQ5E&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.lSE3UoNhUMmY0ZK1JacJ_wAvt0lSmy3KsztokPIYN3rxZuejreH-6vlxE5u1IXfqsvf8tpEfHU6_x_tkJeHXduFxa6j6ThA_U0Cf9BwVPoOJBz9C5s0aT7zfNKZBvU6Uxt-o3pVKLyAXSBxK7D6xiwyi4MjUeshvOrUuZ3r6X7jDu57ejz6oXYvweaxTMjCly0nFjGqjDq0MCB48BqHRdmOBta_v0qntH61SpmKaNZapPGTPgZX5S2BXSzKBLGBCWG_9kpAs2MOQzX__mJZtdrqVJCLt81PInumE9_8mnKJTOG_HaRPcwSNRjG1c921EoirD2Hu2Puv4srFNRqvdYk_YIK6IVGQuXm5ANWiYcJopXeAXGk70fLq8bf51E0m_mLWLLvmaXXYIs7lE5ii2MWDOdNU5s_KQ8tDKUFE3nxkVE9XKuIsi8KKIxSE19Aq4.JX07J3HX5su-nmKoUycbMxRY4qU2am9tZ1Dn_TFNNHI&dib_tag=se&keywords=stainless+steel+spindown+filter&qid=1735680824&sprefix=stainless+steel+spindown,aps,143&sr=8-35


You can add other filters in line as needed.

This is for pre deploy work only. I do NOT recommend having a filter in an active water cooling circuit! Especially if the growth of microbes cannot be controlled. It will be a point for them to grow and slime the hell out of everything resulting in fouling particularly if the fluid has exposure to light.

Silver strips/coils are effective but they need to be as pure as possible. 99% isn't enough.

And you must ensure that all other wetted parts that are metal are the same are at least as close as possible on the differential scale of galvanic potential. Otherwise there will be current flow and corrosion. Additives are fine but you have to keep contaminates out! And use the purest water you can find to start. Never handle wetted parts with bare hands. Think of it as surgery and you don't want to risk infection!

I have systems that have been in service since early 2011, never had water changed and the water is crystal clear when drained and wetted parts are slime and dirt free. Prep is everything to a long, trouble free run. Of course most enthusiasts are changing shit in their system more frequently then they change socks so they don't notice. ;-)

Side note:

I've had people suggest to me that they blow the fluid out of their loops with their mouths when draining them

That never seemed like a good idea to me, though alxlwson might disagree (at least he did in 2016 )

 

[cpufrost]

Side note:

I've had people suggest to me that they blow the fluid out of their loops with their mouths when draining them

That never seemed like a good idea to me, though alxlwson might disagree (at least he did in 2016 )

OMG that reminds me of fish store employees that blow into a fish bag to inflate it!

At that point a full decon is necessary. I've used hydrogen peroxide for this but it takes long to get all the excessive oxygen out of the fluid. I usually use a shop vac to get water out of the system in a hurry. Using an argon bottle from a mig welder is fine as long as you make sure the regulator works reliably down to single psi range AND whatever pressure you do apply the fittings and blocks can take it! I've seen folks use a damn pancake compressor and they really messed up a SLI system with those silly sliding fittings. Pushed the cards apart and cracked the PCI-E connectors.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

OMG that reminds me of fish store employees that blow into a fish bag to inflate it!

At that point a full decon is necessary. I've used hydrogen peroxide for this but it takes long to get all the excessive oxygen out of the fluid. I usually use a shop vac to get water out of the system in a hurry. Using an argon bottle from a mig welder is fine as long as you make sure the regulator works reliably down to single psi range AND whatever pressure you do apply the fittings and blocks can take it! I've seen folks use a damn pancake compressor and they really messed up a SLI system with those silly sliding fittings. Pushed the cards apart and cracked the PCI-E connectors.

I usually blow mine out with my Datavac Duster:

The tubing fits perfectly over the nozzle, and it has a little relief hole to prevent excessive pressure.

I'm sure it is not perfectly clean, but does have a little foam filter covering the intake, and the results have been good thus far.

 

[cpufrost]

Yeah I have a few of those. Universal motor (think vacuum cleaner) spins quite fast. Does need airflow to cool the windings and is intermittent duty. But it blows decent. Much better than using a can filled with liquefied refrigerant, that's for sure! Won't spit liquid out when turned on its side, a solvent that crazes most plastics too! ;-)

 

[alxlwson]

Side note:

I've had people suggest to me that they blow the fluid out of their loops with their mouths when draining them

That never seemed like a good idea to me, though alxlwson might disagree (at least he did in 2016 )

Haha. A little biocide and you're good

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I knew they were large before I ordered them, but holy shit, it is still shocking to see them in person.

I think each of them are larger than the radiator in my car by a good margin.

Once I find a come can for size reference I'll take a pic...

Just realized I forgot to do this, so here it is.

16oz tallboy and 12oz Diet Coke (sorry no banana) for scale.

They kind of take over my entire office

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

If anyone is curious, I have started my build log here.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

This will suffice:

https://www.amazon.com/GQJQ-Reusable-Sediment-Stainless-Machines/dp/B0CSJR6JGD?crid=QMSX8H9JFQ5E&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.lSE3UoNhUMmY0ZK1JacJ_wAvt0lSmy3KsztokPIYN3rxZuejreH-6vlxE5u1IXfqsvf8tpEfHU6_x_tkJeHXduFxa6j6ThA_U0Cf9BwVPoOJBz9C5s0aT7zfNKZBvU6Uxt-o3pVKLyAXSBxK7D6xiwyi4MjUeshvOrUuZ3r6X7jDu57ejz6oXYvweaxTMjCly0nFjGqjDq0MCB48BqHRdmOBta_v0qntH61SpmKaNZapPGTPgZX5S2BXSzKBLGBCWG_9kpAs2MOQzX__mJZtdrqVJCLt81PInumE9_8mnKJTOG_HaRPcwSNRjG1c921EoirD2Hu2Puv4srFNRqvdYk_YIK6IVGQuXm5ANWiYcJopXeAXGk70fLq8bf51E0m_mLWLLvmaXXYIs7lE5ii2MWDOdNU5s_KQ8tDKUFE3nxkVE9XKuIsi8KKIxSE19Aq4.JX07J3HX5su-nmKoUycbMxRY4qU2am9tZ1Dn_TFNNHI&dib_tag=se&keywords=stainless+steel+spindown+filter&qid=1735680824&sprefix=stainless+steel+spindown,aps,143&sr=8-35

I only just remembered to look at this link righ tnow.

I didn't realize you were talking about standard household water filters. I thought you were talking about some sort of industrial filter parts.

I could essentially just grab one of those gross sediment filters, put it right ahead of a standard 2x10" inline filter enclosure and drop a standard water filter in there. 0.1 micron as you suggest, or whatever I can find near that that is relatively inexpensive.

Thanks, that is a really good idea. That is certainly easier than washing, and flushing a billion times. Just put it in there with distilled water, and let it rip for a day or two, and pretty much everything bad should come out!

I thought the 0.1 micron might be overkill. The micro-fins in the blocks are small, but not that small, but then I remembered that it helps to remove bacteria, which is good.

I might just do this, hook it up with my old pump res and clean it offline while I am working on other stuff.

Heck, depending on how well one of these massive radiators does without fans, I may even get the distilled water I flush with to warm up on its own from the pump, and thus help clean it.

Appreciate the suggestion.

 

[termite]

Just realized I forgot to do this, so here it is.

16oz tallboy and 12oz Diet Coke (sorry no banana) for scale.

View attachment 701950

They kind of take over my entire office

Hell yes. That is a lot of cooling.