The New EVE: Apocrypha

Honor in a video game is dumb.
I know the two of us had this discussion before, probably even in this very thread, I don't think that my answer then was any different than it is today. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it may be.

EVE is not just a video game like any other single player computer game out there. It's a multiplayer game where ones actions do affect the playerbase as a whole, and this means other people, not just other pixels. That's why some choose to play honorably within the limitations of the game mechanics. For example, NRDS is honorable from where I am looking.

The linked video doesn't apply since at the end of the day EVE is just a game, and unfortunately there are no real life consequences for being a prick in EVE. I am certain that a lot of space bullies in EVE would be a lot more careful if pissing people off in game would actually carry over into the real world and you would actually risk bodily harm.
 
Yeah like when I sneak up from behind and burn a dudes face off in TF2 (a multiplayer game) I'm like "YOU FOUGHT HONORABLY BRO!" and he's like "YOU HAVE NO HONOR!!"
 
suggesting that thuleman and oldpueblo do not turn this into a caod thread. you guys are both cool 'brosefs'. and you both know where this will go if you let it.

dont be dumb :/
 
suggesting that thuleman and oldpueblo do not turn this into a caod thread. you guys are both cool 'brosefs'. and you both know where this will go if you let it.

dont be dumb :/

They could do a 1vs1 in EVE...and settle their "dispute" ;)
 
Fanfest is an 18+ event so might be why ;)

Ahhh, I see.

Wasnt aware of that. A+ to CCP for doing it that way.

As for Honor inside the game goes, Im on the fence, so I'll just keep my nose outta this one. :)
 
As for Honor inside the game goes, Im on the fence, so I'll just keep my nose outta this one. :)
The beauty of EVE is that it does allow for all play styles. While I don't agree with some of those play styles, I do appreciate that folks in EVE have a choice. In the aforementioned TF2 there is no such choice. I did buy the game, and I don't play it anymore because one is unable to escape the griefers there because the map is just too small.

In EVE those who do not want to grief have an option to carve out a piece of space for themselves and run it the way they believe is right.
 
The beauty of EVE is that it does allow for all play styles. While I don't agree with some of those play styles, I do appreciate that folks in EVE have a choice. In the aforementioned TF2 there is no such choice. I did buy the game, and I don't play it anymore because one is unable to escape the griefers there because the map is just too small.

In EVE those who do not want to grief have an option to carve out a piece of space for themselves and run it the way they believe is right.
So basically, people who are good at being spies or pyros are griefers?
 
there is even honor among thieves. you get held for ransom and you pay and still get shot up thats bs. if you get held for ransom and pay.......thief needs to move off.
 
So basically, people who are good at being spies or pyros are griefers?

Please, if you want to join the discussion, try and put in a little more effort to actually follow the conversation.

However, since you did bring up spies, in the real world back in the good old days of the Cold War, before places like Romania and Eritrea joined the global spying in earnest, there was a gentlemen's agreement between spies, even though both sides were enemies to the teeth. Neither side would execute spies caught even though the laws of those countries would allow it. Neither side would murder spies (in lieu of catching them and exchanging them).
 
The beauty of EVE is that it does allow for all play styles. .

Indeed!!

For me, eventually, I would like to try out being a pirate as well as being a pirate hunter/bounty hunter.

One side of me says....Being a pirate is part of playing the game. But then, there's side of me that has had the displeasure of having a pirate hunt me down while in a mission. It would be a lie for me to sit here and say I didnt get, at least, a little upset at the situation. But, though it was upsetting to be hunted down while in a mission, I knew it could happen. Instead of "staying" upset and then whining about it on some forums somewhere, I chalked it up as an "experience" to learn from as well as adding that Pirate to the buddy list and taking note what he did and giving him a bad standing with me. Now, I know when this person is online and, hehe, down the road, I WILL have the capability to hunt HIM down as he did me. From that moment on, with the thought that I can, in the future, avenge myself....that to me made me want to play all the more.

Should I be upset for him playing the game as it was intended? Not one bit. Was it "Honorable" for him to do what he did? Absolutely. So, my thoughts on the word and meaning of Honor, within this game of EVE has a completely and totally different way of being defined.

Truth be told.....Honor and morals really have no bearing inside of the game. Take care of yourself, watch your back and trust NO ONE are the underlined "RULES" of EVE. That being said, both Mr. Pueblo and Mr. Thuelman are both correct as well as incorrect with their statements. This is what makes EVE such a good game to play.
 
Espionage ingame and espionage IRL are completley different. EVE just like other MMO's is a social game. People want to make friends. Its human nature. So grats to you if you think stabbing someone in the back who just wanted to make a new friend, or have someone to play/hang out with takes skill because trust me it doesnt.

Honor in a video game isnt dumb.
 
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Espionage ingame and espionage IRL are completley different. EVE just like other MMO's is a social game. People want to make friends. Its human nature. So grats to you if you think stabbing someone in the back who just wanted to make a new friend, or have someone to play/hang out with takes skill because trust me it doesnt.

Honor in a video game isnt dumb.

Think of it in the terms of playing an RTS. Your buddies vs another team with buddies. If you sneak a guy into their base and start raping it, exploiting their lack of attention or strategy, it's hardly "dishonorable." That's the game. The people that just blindly trust everyone learn quickly that they don't understand the games rules, and they play better afterwards. "Be honorable" is nowhere written in the game mechanics.
 
"Be honorable" is nowhere written in the game mechanics.
Neither is being a prick, yet people still do it all the time.

I also liked your "I am one of the best PVPers" comment. ;) There are nearly endless ways to define "best", so it's all relative, but I'd be curious to hear what makes you think that.

I am currently dealing with some very angry members of Eternal Perseverance, griefers of course, who can't match my wits and get angrier by the minute because of it. Very entertaining indeed. However, they would take extreme objection to you calling yourself one of the best, seeing as they are ranked top 20 on Battleclinic.
 
My k/d ratio speaks for itself.

Really, that's your measure?
Let's have a look at Battleclinic's Killboard, shall we?
They happen to rank you at #20,262 of all EVE players. Of course the KB doesn't include all kills, but are they really off by that much?

And what is the K/D ratio really a measure of? For example, on my current main I have the following stats:

Code:
Kills:	82
Real kills:	71
Losses:	2
Damage done (ISK):	13.76B
Damage received (ISK):	0.13B
Chance of enemy survival:	2.74%
Pilot Efficiency (ISK):	99.08%
Does that make me one of the best PVPers in EVE? The K/D ratio is certainly more than impressive, no?

Could it be that the two of us have character names which are so central in the alpha listing that no matter from which end primaries are called our names rarely come up? How hardcore is it to fly in a large fleet and just never be called primary?

Those are just a few questions in a large sea of variables which can be used to determine "best". I would put a few billion on that my K/D ratio is better than yours. Does that make me one of the bestest PVPers in EVE?
 
Measuring pilot skill via battleclinic or private kbs is very fail.
Individual pilot skill is largely irrelevant, things are done in EVE by teamwork and coordination.
 
Also you don't die enough which means you are a hesitant PVPer that doesn't commit and often runs away, thats what your stats say don't try to refute it bro! :p
 
How do you keep falling for this...
You already used up your one "it's a tarp!" card. There's only so much backpaddling that can be done before it doesn't look genuine anymore. ;)

Also you don't die enough which means you are a hesitant PVPer that doesn't commit and often runs away, thats what your stats say don't try to refute it bro! :p
No, I really am that good! Really!

Another issue with killboard is that they completely miss some participants. For example, I often fly a Guardian, so I don't get on killmails, and no I am not one of those retards who puts offensive drones on a Logistics just to KM whore. The same obviously applies to CovOps pilots, though I don't fly CovOps myself.
 
Also you don't die enough which means you are a hesitant PVPer that doesn't commit and often runs away, thats what your stats say don't try to refute it bro! :p

Thats putting it in a negative light; sometimes political bullshit ends with you gate camping for awhile until things clear up. I'd say that a poor k/d ratio can indicate a poor player, but a high k/d means nothing at all.
 
Measuring pilot skill via battleclinic or private kbs is very fail.
Individual pilot skill is largely irrelevant, things are done in EVE by teamwork and coordination.

Well mostly. I "solo" dual box in 0.0/low-sec pretty much every day, so the coordination aspect doesn't apply. It's all skill and a bit of luck.

Regardless, this has kinda turned into COAD, so we can stop anytime.
 
You already used up your one "it's a tarp!" card. There's only so much backpaddling that can be done before it doesn't look genuine anymore. ;)


No, I really am that good! Really!

Another issue with killboard is that they completely miss some participants. For example, I often fly a Guardian, so I don't get on killmails, and no I am not one of those retards who puts offensive drones on a Logistics just to KM whore. The same obviously applies to CovOps pilots, though I don't fly CovOps myself.

Thats putting it in a negative light; sometimes political bullshit ends with you gate camping for awhile until things clear up. I'd say that a poor k/d ratio can indicate a poor player, but a high k/d means nothing at all.

TRAP SPRUNG AGAIN! Seriously, do you guys know anything about sarcasm/trolling/Goonswarm?
 
TRAP SPRUNG AGAIN! Seriously, do you guys know anything about sarcasm/trolling/Goonswarm?

we obviously do, but what I don't get is why you bother bringing that shit to these forums. Are you gonna go high-five your g-bros? :confused:
 
TRAP SPRUNG AGAIN! Seriously, do you guys know anything about sarcasm/trolling/Goonswarm?

If your honestly bringing your EVE/Goon//b/ Online persona to a forum, such as [H]....

Your honestly retarded, this isn't an EVE based forum where "goon trolling/idiocy/fun/asshatery/craziness/baiting" is the expected norm, if only for the fact, that many(95%) of the posters reading(and posting) in this thread here have no farking clue what the hell goonswarm are, and why they(hell, who cares about the why, simply knowing that they do) act the way they do.

just my 2cents as an ex-eve online player, and a [H]/GenMay'er.
 
Actually it was pretty much Thuleman reading an obviously sarcastic comment on youtube and coming here asking me to prove I was an excellent PVPer, as well as his not so cleverly hidden arrogance. That to me is pretty dumb and it deserved a dumb reply. For someone soooo knowledgeable about EVE, how he missed the sarcasm in the comment is beyond me.

I read your comment on the vid on YouTube ..., not sure where to begin without to turn this into some flame war, but .... I guess I will just say that I hope your fellow Goonies don't read that comment because they may just kick you out for being The Anti-Goon: "Fly safe with honor and majesty!"

There's a very obvious hint in there.

Nah, it's more like at heart you actually want to play honorably, it's the peer pressure that makes you do all these other things.

Tell me more about myself thank you!

...You are certainly entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it may be.

Never cross words with this master!

Please, if you want to join the discussion, try and put in a little more effort to actually follow the conversation.

Ladies and gentlemen I present Lord of the Post!

I also liked your "I am one of the best PVPers" comment. There are nearly endless ways to define "best", so it's all relative, but I'd be curious to hear what makes you think that.

I am currently dealing with some very angry members of Eternal Perseverance, griefers of course, who can't match my wits and get angrier by the minute because of it. Very entertaining indeed. However, they would take extreme objection to you calling yourself one of the best, seeing as they are ranked top 20 on Battleclinic.

If you know anything about PVP you know that k/d ratio completely does not matter and is in no way indicative of ability. Goonswarm consistently has the worst k/d ratio out of all alliances and its core corp goonfleet literally has been the lowest corp on the list other than NPC corps. And yet we cut through alliances like butter, the sov map over the last few years has spoken for itself. Ergo even IF I had an awesome k/d ratio, who cares.

Really, that's your measure?

Let's have a look at Battleclinic's Killboard, shall we?

They happen to rank you at #20,262 of all EVE players. Of course the KB doesn't include all kills, but are they really off by that much?

And what is the K/D ratio really a measure of? For example, on my current main I have the following stats:

Code:
Kills:    82
 
Real kills:    71
 
Losses:    2
 
Damage done (ISK):    13.76B
 
Damage received (ISK):    0.13B
 
Chance of enemy survival:    2.74%
 
Pilot Efficiency (ISK):    99.08%

Does that make me one of the best PVPers in EVE? The K/D ratio is certainly more than impressive, no?

Could it be that the two of us have character names which are so central in the alpha listing that no matter from which end primaries are called our names rarely come up? How hardcore is it to fly in a large fleet and just never be called primary?

Those are just a few questions in a large sea of variables which can be used to determine "best". I would put a few billion on that my K/D ratio is better than yours. Does that make me one of the bestest PVPers in EVE?

Haha you actually went and looked me up on battleclinic, thats the part I found funniest. A better place to look would be my corps killboard as well as my alliances, they both autoupdate via API and are 100% accurate. Once again not that it matters.

http://killboard.ds1corp.com/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=12548
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/player/oldpueblo

Those of course don't include all of my other PVP alts including capitals.

You already used up your one "it's a tarp!" card. There's only so much backpaddling that can be done before it doesn't look genuine anymore.

I have no idea what you are talking about. So who brought CAOD here again? :p
 
Looks to me like the readers already decided, but good spin doctoring nonetheless.

How high is your throne anyway, is there a stepladder for it? :p Hey a little embarassment never hurt anybody, just learn from it and move on. Also I just checked again and Goonswarm and Goonfleet are still literally the lowest player alliance and corp in game. So much for that theory. Do you still believe my comment was serious?
 
OldPueblo your K/D ratio is making Goonfleet look bad :p We're terrible at this game, didn't anyone tell you?
 
Why is a Ferox called a '14 inch penis'?

I really want this ship to be a good gang/PvP ship but from everything I've read it just doesn't fit any role. Yes, I've been reading the scrapheap challenge forums. ;)
 
Why is a Ferox called a '14 inch penis'?

I really want this ship to be a good gang/PvP ship but from everything I've read it just doesn't fit any role. Yes, I've been reading the scrapheap challenge forums. ;)

Gah ruun aawwwayyyyy, scrapheap is a heap for a reason. The ferox is a fine ship, you just have to ask yourself if another ship doesn't do the same job better. Personally I like the ferox in fleet as a throwaway anti-support ship. It can snipe or swap the scripts to high tracking and hit stuff well on gates. It's cheap and it's flexible, two of my favorite things in PVP.
 
EO is blocked from work, unfortunately, so I'm stuck with SHC or whatever I can find that doesn't have 'eve' in the domain title (not sure what these fuckers are keying off of besides anything that provides streaming content.)

I loves my Ferox and I'm asking myself how I can use it, and use Caldari in general to suprise people.
 
No, the Ferox is called the 14" penis.

It's pretty much garbage anyway, unless you like a cheap sniper (large fleets, does anyone actually fly them?) or have no missile skills to fly a Drake (small fleets).

Fitted with blasters they are decent. Some of my corp mates fly them from time to time, just as bait and for the lulz though.
 
It's really not "that" bad of a ship. It just lacks range (sans rails), tank, dps or speed :p

It is a Tier 1 BC though, so there's really no reason to fly one. A Drake, Harbi, Cane and a Myrm are all better in almost every situation other than a cheap BC sniper, and does anyone actually fly those?

:)
 
A Drake, Harbi, Cane and a Myrm are all better in almost every situation other than a cheap BC sniper, and does anyone actually fly those?

:)

I only take out my Myrm when I'm ratting in 0.0. For PVP actions, I'm usually in an Incursus fitted out for tackling.

In 5 more days, I can finally fly the Taranis Interceptor :)
 
It's really not "that" bad of a ship. It just lacks range (sans rails), tank, dps or speed :p

It is a Tier 1 BC though, so there's really no reason to fly one. A Drake, Harbi, Cane and a Myrm are all better in almost every situation other than a cheap BC sniper, and does anyone actually fly those?

:)

Not everyone that trains caldari trains missiles first, I'll take a ferox over a drake anyday in fleet because it's a gunboat. If you want to fly something in the lower BC price/HP range, have the right skills, then why not?
 
Not everyone that trains caldari trains missiles first, I'll take a ferox over a drake anyday in fleet because it's a gunboat. If you want to fly something in the lower BC price/HP range, have the right skills, then why not?

I never said there was anything wrong with it, it's just not a good ship. The situation you stated here is perfectly valid.

Keep in mind of course, your "fleets" are vastly different than my "fleets" btw (I'll leave it at that :p) so that particular comparison isn't really valid.
 
Wow!!! Gone for 24hrs and 2 pages get filled, LOL :) Cool

So, Goonsquad....a fitting name, ehh.

PvP, I know nothing of other than what my ass looks like, as Ive had it handed to me several times. Killboards, heh. Im probably dead last on that list :) I can understand the pride one would have for being good at PvP in EVE. Its a damn hard game. But then again, it is, just a game fellas. Kick back, have a doobie and relax. As both of you guys have said, it really doesnt matter who's better/best. But if you guys do decide to take it to the game, may I be invited? Id like to watch o_O :p

As for the Thorax lookin like a penis, HAHA!!!! Thats freakin funny....but seriously, hey, watch it...that my ship your talkin bout :p Besides, I always thought it kinda looked like that SR-71 Blackbird myself, the front portion of it anyways. Im going to have to have a look at this Ferox ship. I do not recall that one, but then again, Ive really only looked at Gallantean and Minmatar ships.

All that aside.....I have a serious question for you guys....

Im not quite understanding the Standings as well as I thought I did. Im trying to get to Level 3's for...hmmm, well, about a month now. Granted I dont play everyday, but I thought I would have unlocked a L3 agent by now but I havent. Ive been doing L2's for Federation Navy in Aunia and my standing for that agent is at 4.83. But my standing for Gallante hasnt really increased all that much even though the Federation Navy is part of their faction (pardon if im not wording that right). According to the L3 agent's standing quo, I should have been offered a L3 mission, but its still locked.

So, my question is, is it the standing with the mission agents thats important to raise in order to get a higher tiered mission or is it the faction's standing that needs to be raised? Or am I just being a bit too impatient? The actual faction im with atm is an NPC faction called Center for Advanced Studies. I havent been doing any missions for them though since all they offer are advisory missions whereas Im wanting to do kill missions which is why I started doing Federation Navy. Am I doing something wrong? If so, can someone please explain it to me :)
 
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