The New EVE: Apocrypha

Thuleman

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 13, 2004
Messages
5,833
My k/d ratio speaks for itself.

Really, that's your measure?
Let's have a look at Battleclinic's Killboard, shall we?
They happen to rank you at #20,262 of all EVE players. Of course the KB doesn't include all kills, but are they really off by that much?

And what is the K/D ratio really a measure of? For example, on my current main I have the following stats:

Code:
Kills:	82
Real kills:	71
Losses:	2
Damage done (ISK):	13.76B
Damage received (ISK):	0.13B
Chance of enemy survival:	2.74%
Pilot Efficiency (ISK):	99.08%
Does that make me one of the best PVPers in EVE? The K/D ratio is certainly more than impressive, no?

Could it be that the two of us have character names which are so central in the alpha listing that no matter from which end primaries are called our names rarely come up? How hardcore is it to fly in a large fleet and just never be called primary?

Those are just a few questions in a large sea of variables which can be used to determine "best". I would put a few billion on that my K/D ratio is better than yours. Does that make me one of the bestest PVPers in EVE?
 

kencheeto

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 17, 2008
Messages
2,851
Measuring pilot skill via battleclinic or private kbs is very fail.
Individual pilot skill is largely irrelevant, things are done in EVE by teamwork and coordination.
 

oldpablo

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 31, 2003
Messages
6,352
Also you don't die enough which means you are a hesitant PVPer that doesn't commit and often runs away, thats what your stats say don't try to refute it bro! :p
 

Thuleman

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 13, 2004
Messages
5,833
How do you keep falling for this...
You already used up your one "it's a tarp!" card. There's only so much backpaddling that can be done before it doesn't look genuine anymore. ;)

Also you don't die enough which means you are a hesitant PVPer that doesn't commit and often runs away, thats what your stats say don't try to refute it bro! :p
No, I really am that good! Really!

Another issue with killboard is that they completely miss some participants. For example, I often fly a Guardian, so I don't get on killmails, and no I am not one of those retards who puts offensive drones on a Logistics just to KM whore. The same obviously applies to CovOps pilots, though I don't fly CovOps myself.
 

kencheeto

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 17, 2008
Messages
2,851
Also you don't die enough which means you are a hesitant PVPer that doesn't commit and often runs away, thats what your stats say don't try to refute it bro! :p

Thats putting it in a negative light; sometimes political bullshit ends with you gate camping for awhile until things clear up. I'd say that a poor k/d ratio can indicate a poor player, but a high k/d means nothing at all.
 

squishy

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
1,209
Measuring pilot skill via battleclinic or private kbs is very fail.
Individual pilot skill is largely irrelevant, things are done in EVE by teamwork and coordination.

Well mostly. I "solo" dual box in 0.0/low-sec pretty much every day, so the coordination aspect doesn't apply. It's all skill and a bit of luck.

Regardless, this has kinda turned into COAD, so we can stop anytime.
 

oldpablo

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 31, 2003
Messages
6,352
You already used up your one "it's a tarp!" card. There's only so much backpaddling that can be done before it doesn't look genuine anymore. ;)


No, I really am that good! Really!

Another issue with killboard is that they completely miss some participants. For example, I often fly a Guardian, so I don't get on killmails, and no I am not one of those retards who puts offensive drones on a Logistics just to KM whore. The same obviously applies to CovOps pilots, though I don't fly CovOps myself.

Thats putting it in a negative light; sometimes political bullshit ends with you gate camping for awhile until things clear up. I'd say that a poor k/d ratio can indicate a poor player, but a high k/d means nothing at all.

TRAP SPRUNG AGAIN! Seriously, do you guys know anything about sarcasm/trolling/Goonswarm?
 

Chilly

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Messages
2,031
TRAP SPRUNG AGAIN! Seriously, do you guys know anything about sarcasm/trolling/Goonswarm?

If your honestly bringing your EVE/Goon//b/ Online persona to a forum, such as [H]....

Your honestly retarded, this isn't an EVE based forum where "goon trolling/idiocy/fun/asshatery/craziness/baiting" is the expected norm, if only for the fact, that many(95%) of the posters reading(and posting) in this thread here have no farking clue what the hell goonswarm are, and why they(hell, who cares about the why, simply knowing that they do) act the way they do.

just my 2cents as an ex-eve online player, and a [H]/GenMay'er.
 

oldpablo

Supreme [H]ardness
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May 31, 2003
Messages
6,352
Actually it was pretty much Thuleman reading an obviously sarcastic comment on youtube and coming here asking me to prove I was an excellent PVPer, as well as his not so cleverly hidden arrogance. That to me is pretty dumb and it deserved a dumb reply. For someone soooo knowledgeable about EVE, how he missed the sarcasm in the comment is beyond me.

I read your comment on the vid on YouTube ..., not sure where to begin without to turn this into some flame war, but .... I guess I will just say that I hope your fellow Goonies don't read that comment because they may just kick you out for being The Anti-Goon: "Fly safe with honor and majesty!"

There's a very obvious hint in there.

Nah, it's more like at heart you actually want to play honorably, it's the peer pressure that makes you do all these other things.

Tell me more about myself thank you!

...You are certainly entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it may be.

Never cross words with this master!

Please, if you want to join the discussion, try and put in a little more effort to actually follow the conversation.

Ladies and gentlemen I present Lord of the Post!

I also liked your "I am one of the best PVPers" comment. There are nearly endless ways to define "best", so it's all relative, but I'd be curious to hear what makes you think that.

I am currently dealing with some very angry members of Eternal Perseverance, griefers of course, who can't match my wits and get angrier by the minute because of it. Very entertaining indeed. However, they would take extreme objection to you calling yourself one of the best, seeing as they are ranked top 20 on Battleclinic.

If you know anything about PVP you know that k/d ratio completely does not matter and is in no way indicative of ability. Goonswarm consistently has the worst k/d ratio out of all alliances and its core corp goonfleet literally has been the lowest corp on the list other than NPC corps. And yet we cut through alliances like butter, the sov map over the last few years has spoken for itself. Ergo even IF I had an awesome k/d ratio, who cares.

Really, that's your measure?

Let's have a look at Battleclinic's Killboard, shall we?

They happen to rank you at #20,262 of all EVE players. Of course the KB doesn't include all kills, but are they really off by that much?

And what is the K/D ratio really a measure of? For example, on my current main I have the following stats:

Code:
Kills:    82
 
Real kills:    71
 
Losses:    2
 
Damage done (ISK):    13.76B
 
Damage received (ISK):    0.13B
 
Chance of enemy survival:    2.74%
 
Pilot Efficiency (ISK):    99.08%

Does that make me one of the best PVPers in EVE? The K/D ratio is certainly more than impressive, no?

Could it be that the two of us have character names which are so central in the alpha listing that no matter from which end primaries are called our names rarely come up? How hardcore is it to fly in a large fleet and just never be called primary?

Those are just a few questions in a large sea of variables which can be used to determine "best". I would put a few billion on that my K/D ratio is better than yours. Does that make me one of the bestest PVPers in EVE?

Haha you actually went and looked me up on battleclinic, thats the part I found funniest. A better place to look would be my corps killboard as well as my alliances, they both autoupdate via API and are 100% accurate. Once again not that it matters.

http://killboard.ds1corp.com/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=12548
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/player/oldpueblo

Those of course don't include all of my other PVP alts including capitals.

You already used up your one "it's a tarp!" card. There's only so much backpaddling that can be done before it doesn't look genuine anymore.

I have no idea what you are talking about. So who brought CAOD here again? :p
 

oldpablo

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 31, 2003
Messages
6,352
Looks to me like the readers already decided, but good spin doctoring nonetheless.

How high is your throne anyway, is there a stepladder for it? :p Hey a little embarassment never hurt anybody, just learn from it and move on. Also I just checked again and Goonswarm and Goonfleet are still literally the lowest player alliance and corp in game. So much for that theory. Do you still believe my comment was serious?
 

nismo_r34

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 16, 2003
Messages
491
OldPueblo your K/D ratio is making Goonfleet look bad :p We're terrible at this game, didn't anyone tell you?
 

eggrock

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 1, 2003
Messages
4,102
Why is a Ferox called a '14 inch penis'?

I really want this ship to be a good gang/PvP ship but from everything I've read it just doesn't fit any role. Yes, I've been reading the scrapheap challenge forums. ;)
 

oldpablo

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 31, 2003
Messages
6,352
Why is a Ferox called a '14 inch penis'?

I really want this ship to be a good gang/PvP ship but from everything I've read it just doesn't fit any role. Yes, I've been reading the scrapheap challenge forums. ;)

Gah ruun aawwwayyyyy, scrapheap is a heap for a reason. The ferox is a fine ship, you just have to ask yourself if another ship doesn't do the same job better. Personally I like the ferox in fleet as a throwaway anti-support ship. It can snipe or swap the scripts to high tracking and hit stuff well on gates. It's cheap and it's flexible, two of my favorite things in PVP.
 

eggrock

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 1, 2003
Messages
4,102
EO is blocked from work, unfortunately, so I'm stuck with SHC or whatever I can find that doesn't have 'eve' in the domain title (not sure what these fuckers are keying off of besides anything that provides streaming content.)

I loves my Ferox and I'm asking myself how I can use it, and use Caldari in general to suprise people.
 

mashie

Mawd Gawd
Joined
Oct 25, 2000
Messages
4,253
Why is a Ferox called a '14 inch penis'?

I really want this ship to be a good gang/PvP ship but from everything I've read it just doesn't fit any role. Yes, I've been reading the scrapheap challenge forums. ;)
It isn't, the Brutix/Thorax is, you are just confused. ;)
 

squishy

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
1,209
No, the Ferox is called the 14" penis.

It's pretty much garbage anyway, unless you like a cheap sniper (large fleets, does anyone actually fly them?) or have no missile skills to fly a Drake (small fleets).

Fitted with blasters they are decent. Some of my corp mates fly them from time to time, just as bait and for the lulz though.
 

squishy

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
1,209
It's really not "that" bad of a ship. It just lacks range (sans rails), tank, dps or speed :p

It is a Tier 1 BC though, so there's really no reason to fly one. A Drake, Harbi, Cane and a Myrm are all better in almost every situation other than a cheap BC sniper, and does anyone actually fly those?

:)
 

Dangman

Ninja Editor SuperMod
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Messages
46,062
A Drake, Harbi, Cane and a Myrm are all better in almost every situation other than a cheap BC sniper, and does anyone actually fly those?

:)

I only take out my Myrm when I'm ratting in 0.0. For PVP actions, I'm usually in an Incursus fitted out for tackling.

In 5 more days, I can finally fly the Taranis Interceptor :)
 

oldpablo

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 31, 2003
Messages
6,352
It's really not "that" bad of a ship. It just lacks range (sans rails), tank, dps or speed :p

It is a Tier 1 BC though, so there's really no reason to fly one. A Drake, Harbi, Cane and a Myrm are all better in almost every situation other than a cheap BC sniper, and does anyone actually fly those?

:)

Not everyone that trains caldari trains missiles first, I'll take a ferox over a drake anyday in fleet because it's a gunboat. If you want to fly something in the lower BC price/HP range, have the right skills, then why not?
 

squishy

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
1,209
Not everyone that trains caldari trains missiles first, I'll take a ferox over a drake anyday in fleet because it's a gunboat. If you want to fly something in the lower BC price/HP range, have the right skills, then why not?

I never said there was anything wrong with it, it's just not a good ship. The situation you stated here is perfectly valid.

Keep in mind of course, your "fleets" are vastly different than my "fleets" btw (I'll leave it at that :p) so that particular comparison isn't really valid.
 

SAW

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 13, 2005
Messages
1,467
Wow!!! Gone for 24hrs and 2 pages get filled, LOL :) Cool

So, Goonsquad....a fitting name, ehh.

PvP, I know nothing of other than what my ass looks like, as Ive had it handed to me several times. Killboards, heh. Im probably dead last on that list :) I can understand the pride one would have for being good at PvP in EVE. Its a damn hard game. But then again, it is, just a game fellas. Kick back, have a doobie and relax. As both of you guys have said, it really doesnt matter who's better/best. But if you guys do decide to take it to the game, may I be invited? Id like to watch o_O :p

As for the Thorax lookin like a penis, HAHA!!!! Thats freakin funny....but seriously, hey, watch it...that my ship your talkin bout :p Besides, I always thought it kinda looked like that SR-71 Blackbird myself, the front portion of it anyways. Im going to have to have a look at this Ferox ship. I do not recall that one, but then again, Ive really only looked at Gallantean and Minmatar ships.

All that aside.....I have a serious question for you guys....

Im not quite understanding the Standings as well as I thought I did. Im trying to get to Level 3's for...hmmm, well, about a month now. Granted I dont play everyday, but I thought I would have unlocked a L3 agent by now but I havent. Ive been doing L2's for Federation Navy in Aunia and my standing for that agent is at 4.83. But my standing for Gallante hasnt really increased all that much even though the Federation Navy is part of their faction (pardon if im not wording that right). According to the L3 agent's standing quo, I should have been offered a L3 mission, but its still locked.

So, my question is, is it the standing with the mission agents thats important to raise in order to get a higher tiered mission or is it the faction's standing that needs to be raised? Or am I just being a bit too impatient? The actual faction im with atm is an NPC faction called Center for Advanced Studies. I havent been doing any missions for them though since all they offer are advisory missions whereas Im wanting to do kill missions which is why I started doing Federation Navy. Am I doing something wrong? If so, can someone please explain it to me :)
 

Dangman

Ninja Editor SuperMod
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Messages
46,062
What are your standings for the Federation Navy?

It's mainly the faction standing that needs to be raised. However generally, when you raise your agent standings, it does have a similar effect on faction standings.
 

SAW

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 13, 2005
Messages
1,467
What are your standings for the Federation Navy?

It's mainly the faction standing that needs to be raised. However generally, when you raise your agent standings, it does have a similar effect on faction standings.

Bro....I cant remember squat when it comes to statistics....gimme a sec, I was about to log in anyhooo :) (day off tomorrow, woot!!!).
 

SAW

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 13, 2005
Messages
1,467
Gallente Federation = 2.18
Federation Navy = 3.26
L2 Agent = 4.66

L3 Agent requires 4.80

Sorry, misquoted my standings in previous post (I look at a tape measure all day, numbers in my head, I cant remember whats what sometimes, heh).
 

SAW

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 13, 2005
Messages
1,467
Hmmm, Oooo Kkkaayy....Just had a look at the Ferox.....What THE hell are you guys smokin? Looks nothing like a freakin penis. (I cant believe I just wrote that word........again!!)
 

D0n2k

Weaksauce
Joined
Sep 24, 2007
Messages
83
iirc you need to increase standings to the NPC Corp you are running missions for.

So think you need Fed Navy up to 4.8 (from your numbers).

Standing increase gains come about from Storyline missions - so blitz 15/16 missions (courier missions are good for this) to get a storyline, do that for standings gain. Also raise the relevent social skills (connections or something) up a bit to speed things along.

really the l3 missions are worth getting / much more profitable than L2's... so blitzing & leaving loot is valid/possibly worthwhile.
 

oldpablo

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 31, 2003
Messages
6,352
Don't be afraid to just leave everything when blitzing. You may think you're leaving money behind, but the faster you blitz through them the faster you get to the more lucrative ones.
 

eggrock

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 1, 2003
Messages
4,102
The actual faction im with atm is an NPC faction called Center for Advanced Studies. I havent been doing any missions for them though since all they offer are advisory missions whereas Im wanting to do kill missions which is why I started doing Federation Navy. Am I doing something wrong? If so, can someone please explain it to me :)

Without being able to get into the game and check, I'm thinking:

- Center for Advanced Studies is a corporation--look at your Character sheet under the Standing tab ("Liked By" tab) and you should see a positive standing with a corp of that name. That standing is what affects which agents are available to you in the CfAS corp only.

- Running missions for that agent raises (or can lower) standings for the CfAS corp. Every 16-ish missions you complete for the agent gives you a storyline agent and running that mission will raise faction standings (no standing increase for CfAS corp.)

In the Character/Standings screen ("Liked By" tab) click on 'Info' for the CfAS corporation and then click the Agents tab and you can see the agents within the CfAS corp that are available to you. Rinse and repeat for the other corps. You can look up their locations from there (pick the highest one in hisec space that doesn't border losec space.)

Also, in the corp info window there is a 'Settled Systems' tab that you can click, then click the 'Show on Map' button and it will highlight (in green) the solar systems that have agents for that corp. Some corps are spread out over empire space and increasing standings with one of those is be useful for knowing where you can install jump clones. Once you get 8.0 standings or higher with a corp you can install a JC in a station that has an agent--I'm pretty sure the station needs medical facilities to install JCs. It's really good if they have an office in or near Jita/Amarr/any major trading hub.

Get into L3s as fast as you can. The money is far better than L2s and you'll probably never run into ninjas like you will with L4s.
 

SAW

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
1,467
Hmmm, so thats why its been so slow. Every time I complete a mission, I go back and get my Cat to salvage the wrecks. So its been Mission then Salvage, Mission then Salvage etc etc. Im up to 50mil now though, heh.

Its going to be hard for me to just leave that loot just sitting there, but I suppose blitzing the missions makes sense to get to L3's quicker. The L2's are so easy for me now, it shouldnt take too long.

And yeah, Im always forgetting the lingo for this game. I meant Corp, not faction for the CAS.

Thanks guys :)
 

D0n2k

Weaksauce
Joined
Sep 24, 2007
Messages
83
also when "cleaning" level 2's & 3's
do Mission Mission Mission Mission Clean >> mission mission mission Clean.... etc is much quicker, also running 2/3 agents from same station/system helps

wrecks and cans stay in space for 2hrs. bookmark wrecks and go back after a few mish's to clean up- might lose some to ninga salvagers but more power to them I'd say.

on slightly different thought... Pure mission alt - afk domi or raven/cnr ?
 

SAW

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
1,467
also when "cleaning" level 2's & 3's
do Mission Mission Mission Mission Clean >> mission mission mission Clean.... etc is much quicker, also running 2/3 agents from same station/system helps

wrecks and cans stay in space for 2hrs. bookmark wrecks and go back after a few mish's to clean up- might lose some to ninga salvagers but more power to them I'd say.

on slightly different thought... Pure mission alt - afk domi or raven/cnr ?

Hmmm, the whole reason why I was always going back for my loot and to salvage after each and every mission was to avoid the ninja salvagers. But now that I think about it, my guess would be that someone doing the ninja'ing would look at L2 loot as crap and wouldnt waste their time with it. Thats the way i would look at it if I were to do any ninja'ing. The highest selling items I get from L2's are those Armor Plates (220k) and I think Platinum/Titanium bars of some sort (220k). I would assume that is just chump change to those ninja'ing.

Your "Mission mission mission mission, then loot" suggestion brings up another question.......

What are the chances that when Ive been given a mission to do, someone else is given the same mission, would we ever see eachother? I realize that those jumpgates are pretty much the same thing as an "Instance" in other games, but, just the same..is there a possibility of having someone else inside the same mission area as what I have been given?

Going along with that question. I already know full well that I can be scanned down while im in a mission area and that person can indeed warp to my position, but can that person see what Im seeing? i.e. I see rats and complexes cause on my side of the computer, I was the one given the mission, so that info is sent to my computer and thus, I see what I see.....but if someone else warps into my mission...do they also see what I see? And if they can see what I see, in theory, then they could also shoot me down as well as shoot the rest of rats I hadnt killed yet, in turn, completing the mission (if the mission was to kill the rats)........and if so, since the rats were killed, regardless of me being killed by the mission hunter guy....does the mission end up being completed on my end? Or does the game know who killed what and see's that I didnt kill the rats, thus I dont get credit for the mission? <----I know thats far fetched and im probably thinking too much about it, I was curious nontheless though.
 

Dangman

Ninja Editor SuperMod
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Messages
46,062
Space is huge. So there's an extremely low chance of your mission "instance" being the same as another player's

Yes other people, whether part of your fleet or just some random player, can see everything you see in that mission space. Mission spaces are generally open to all players that know of that space's location.

If the mission requires every rat dead and the mission hunter guy does do so, then yeah, you can turn in the mission and get credit for it. As long as the mission parameters are met, doesn't matter who did them AFAIK
 

eggrock

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 1, 2003
Messages
4,102
The highest selling items I get from L2's are those Armor Plates (220k) and I think Platinum/Titanium bars of some sort (220k). I would assume that is just chump change to those ninja'ing.

Just got a 13M drop on an L3 and never a ninja. Mission mission mission salvage is nice and fast, and I think once you close the mission, and if no one has been to your mission and bm'd they can *never* get your loot.
 

ojax

Gawd
Joined
Sep 4, 2003
Messages
822
There is no instancing in EVE... Jump gates are there so you cannot warp within a certain distance, far as I can tell.. Your only option is to activate the jump gate.. You gotta remember, that your visible distance is so small, and the systems of space as sooo huge... There will never be a situation where you will be sent to the same area of space someone else is doing a mission in.
 
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