The Most Sought After Laptop In The U.S.?

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There was only one laptop in the U.S. that could read the information off the event data recorders used by Toyota? Really?

Last week, Toyota acknowledged it has only a single laptop available in the U.S. to download its data recorder information because it is still a prototype, despite being in use since 2001 in Toyota vehicles. Three other laptops capable of reading the devices were delivered this week to NHTSA for training on their use, Toyota said, and 150 more will be brought to the U.S. for commercial use by the end of April. By contrast, acceptance and distribution of data recorder technology by other automakers is commonplace.
 

Azhar

Fixing stupid since 1972
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This is sick:

from article said:
Some crash experts say Toyota shouldn't bear too much criticism for failing to capture large amounts or specific kinds of data, because EDR systems were initially built for air bag deployment and not necessarily to reconstruct wrecks. They also vary widely from vehicle model to model, said Haight, the San Diego collision expert.

"That doesn't mean I'm hiding something or preventing you from getting something," Haight said. "It simply means that, in the development of a car, other considerations took priority — nothing more."

Seat angle reporting in a black box is more important than brake application reporting?
 

Evil_SPanKY

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The more I hear about this whole debacle of Toyota's, the more respect they loose in my mind.

1 laptop in all of the US that can read this data, despite being developed since 2001? That is just pathetic.
 

Vonstar

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Doesn't mean they don't have and use them in other countries.........Im sure if there was info they needed they got it from elsewhere that their vehicles were used/crashed.......
 

krupted

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steve elightened us to this in the toyota thread... i dont think anyone can dispute the fact that toyota has maliciously covered up its data.... its a lot worse then i realized, thats for sure!
 

Magnus

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All this time and people still don't understand Japanese business culture. More disturbingly, the U.S. government doesn't understand it. Japanese business culture always makes decisions based on maintaining and increasing an advantage period.

There is absolutely no concept of enlightened self interest. Every advantage is fiercely guarded and any changes come only from organizations with greater power. People believe that every corporate entity behaves in this manner but, they don't understand the insane, to the western world, level of competition.

They will rabidly defend any advantage while actively stealing any technology that has less than a clear cut or enforceable ownership. Trade deficits with Japan will only ever be addressed when they are forced to.
 
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wow and I thought Nissan's Consult-III system was retarded (Toughboook + some interface to connect to car's black box + card reader to read in the modules for different cars). At least Nissan's hardware is somewhat obtainable (save maybe the GT-R module card)
 

moetop

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wow and I thought Nissan's Consult-III system was retarded (Toughboook + some interface to connect to car's black box + card reader to read in the modules for different cars). At least Nissan's hardware is somewhat obtainable (save maybe the GT-R module card)

Nissan has their own level of arrogance. just try and visit nissan.com
 

Catsonar

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Man! I really smell the same situation or fate with Toyota that Lancia had in Britain.
 

krupted

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All this time and people still don't understand Japanese business culture. More disturbingly, the U.S. government doesn't understand it. Japanese business culture always makes decisions based on maintaining and increasing an advantage period.

There is absolutely no concept of enlightened self interest. Every advantage is fiercely guarded and any changes come only from organizations with greater power. People believe that every corporate entity behaves in this manner but, they don't understand the insane, to the western world, level of competition.

They will rabidly defend any advantage while actively stealing any technology that has less than a clear cut or enforceable ownership. Trade deficits with Japan will only ever be addressed when they are forced to.

sounds like a good explanation for the documentary - The Cove.
 

whrswoldo

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Bah, Toyota has lost a lot of respect in my opinion. I can't see myself buying one of their vehicles any time soon :(
 

450

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Nissan has their own level of arrogance. just try and visit nissan.com

That's not arrogance. That's something they pretty much have to fight, similar to what Microsoft did with Mike-Rowe-Soft.
 

complexx

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The more I hear about this whole debacle of Toyota's, the more respect they loose in my mind.

1 laptop in all of the US that can read this data, despite being developed since 2001? That is just pathetic.

And that my friend was done on purpose. That sure is one hell of a way to keep control of what data is made public and what isn't.. I'd love to know who's home that laptop resides in.
 

krupted

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Bah, Toyota has lost a lot of respect in my opinion. I can't see myself buying one of their vehicles any time soon :(

i have compromised to accepting that most of my cheap shit comes from china. so be it, we cant have everything we want. but for big purchases? buying american is LEAPS better. our factories actually have to answer to higher powers (or civilians!) besides, anytime you see something that says "made in usa" it almost makes it a impulsive buy just because of that..
 

Catsonar

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Not for me, I see made in the USA and I think "Cheap" as well. I mean you can usually even tell the packaging is cheap. As for cars, Toyota has fucked up royally but they'll learn from this. If you think that toyota is cheap, than think about and pull you heads out of your asses, PERIOD. Lexus is considered the Mercedes of Japan and in the Executive Salon sector. Not to mention the countless awards that they get like "That's a nice paint job finish" Award. 3 years running. This situation is just a management issue. I'm sure someone was ignoring these faults in the cars and now the Head honchos have to pay as a company.
 

Azhar

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Not for me, I see made in the USA and I think "Cheap" as well. I mean you can usually even tell the packaging is cheap. As for cars, Toyota has fucked up royally but they'll learn from this. If you think that toyota is cheap, than think about and pull you heads out of your asses, PERIOD. Lexus is considered the Mercedes of Japan and in the Executive Salon sector. Not to mention the countless awards that they get like "That's a nice paint job finish" Award. 3 years running. This situation is just a management issue. I'm sure someone was ignoring these faults in the cars and now the Head honchos have to pay as a company.

Lexus is made by Toyota, isn't it?
 

krupted

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Not for me, I see made in the USA and I think "Cheap" as well. I mean you can usually even tell the packaging is cheap. As for cars, Toyota has fucked up royally but they'll learn from this. If you think that toyota is cheap, than think about and pull you heads out of your asses, PERIOD. Lexus is considered the Mercedes of Japan and in the Executive Salon sector. Not to mention the countless awards that they get like "That's a nice paint job finish" Award. 3 years running. This situation is just a management issue. I'm sure someone was ignoring these faults in the cars and now the Head honchos have to pay as a company.

talk about burying your head in the sand:(
 

Methadras

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This brings up the broader question about black boxes in automobiles altogether. Are they a good idea or an abuse waiting to happen? Furthermore, it's not like NIST, DOT, and any other agency related to automobiles and automobile safety didn't know about this data, so why are they not coming forward in defending Toyota? They all knew about this 1 laptop. They've had to.
 

Gideon

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Black boxes are mostly in cars for the manufactures purpose. It records data so if the owner says the car caused the crash, we can then download all that was happening within 15 seconds of impact or so. Either they were right and engineering goes to work to fix the flaw or they were full of it and we seem them in court.

All car companies will fight to not release this data. Can't blame them either as someone will look at 1 thing in the data stream and decide on flawed knowledge that its a defect. Thus turning it into a class action lawsuit where its merely up to a uninformed jury panel to make a decision. Business in general try to avoid this.

Toyota trying to hide this info doesn't shock me, however gloating about how they can make our government cave to them was stupid. They soon will have to work like the big 3 and will have to comply, instead of complying when they feel like it. It's good for the public in the long run, Japan needs to be on a level playing field in the U.S. Go to Japan and the big 3 are praying they can even get close to a level playing field.
 

krupted

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All car companies will fight to not release this data. Can't blame them either as someone will look at 1 thing in the data stream and decide on flawed knowledge that its a defect. Thus turning it into a class action lawsuit where its merely up to a uninformed jury panel to make a decision. Business in general try to avoid this.

from article in topic link-

By contrast, acceptance and distribution of data recorder technology by other automakers is commonplace.

General Motors, for example, has licensed the auto parts maker Bosch to produce a device capable of downloading EDR data directly to a laptop computer, either from the scene of an accident or later. The device is available to law enforcement agencies or any other third party, spokesman Alan Adler said.

Spokesmen from Ford and Chrysler said their recorder data is just as accessible. "We put what you would call 'open systems' in our vehicles, which are readable by law enforcement or anyone who has a need to read that data," Chrysler spokesman Mike Palese said.

Nissan also makes its EDR data readily available to third parties using a device called Consult, spokesman Colin Price said. The program allows access to a host of vehicle data, from diagnosing the cause of a check-engine light to downloading EDR data after a crash, he said

it goes on to say honda only release info upon court order. those japanese car makers are looking real pretty right now arent they?:rolleyes:
 

Insula Gilliganis

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The situation for Toyota isn't getting any better.. "Runaway Prius hits 90 mph before stopping with aid of CHP" http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-chp9-2010mar09,0,3699926.story?track=rss Glad Ponch & John could help out!

ToyotaRecall.jpg
 

krupted

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The situation for Toyota isn't getting any better.. "Runaway Prius hits 90 mph before stopping with aid of CHP" http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-chp9-2010mar09,0,3699926.story?track=rss Glad Ponch & John could help out!

ugh:(:( twenty minutes without even trying to turn off the engine! THANKS 60 MINUTES, your preaching "leave the engine on!" is going to kill someone. exactly as i feared.
Landeros didn't know why the driver waited until his speed had dropped to turn off the engine, but the officer speculated that Sikes feared losing the car's power steering.[/QUOTE

ive been trying to tell my mom to TURN OFF THE KEY to her matrix if it tries to run away on her. but she saw on tv news that says "dont turn off the key or you will lose all your steering and brakes!! use neutral and both feet on the brakes!". i think i might just send her this link, she still thinks if your engine is off that means you cannot turn or stop:(

"As it was going, I was trying the brakes . . . it wasn't stopping."

yes, neutral wouldve helped this idiot too... but the ignition thing just floors me. the problem is your engine has too many rpms. the very first thing you should do is try to kill those rpm's, not fight them.
 

Blown 89

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ugh:(:( twenty minutes without even trying to turn off the engine! THANKS 60 MINUTES, your preaching "leave the engine on!" is going to kill someone. exactly as i feared.
Try doing that in a manual equipped car and let me know how that works for you. 60 Minutes is telling people to leave the engine running for good reason.
 

swiftB3

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ugh:(:( twenty minutes without even trying to turn off the engine! THANKS 60 MINUTES, your preaching "leave the engine on!" is going to kill someone. exactly as i feared.
Landeros didn't know why the driver waited until his speed had dropped to turn off the engine, but the officer speculated that Sikes feared losing the car's power steering.[/QUOTE

ive been trying to tell my mom to TURN OFF THE KEY to her matrix if it tries to run away on her. but she saw on tv news that says "dont turn off the key or you will lose all your steering and brakes!! use neutral and both feet on the brakes!". i think i might just send her this link, she still thinks if your engine is off that means you cannot turn or stop:(



yes, neutral wouldve helped this idiot too... but the ignition thing just floors me. the problem is your engine has too many rpms. the very first thing you should do is try to kill those rpm's, not fight them.

I heard on the radio, though it doesn't mention it in this article, that the guy tried to throw it in neutral and it didn't do anything.
Of course, that may have been misreported, because I don't know what would keep you from shifting to neutral.

UNLESS the automatic transmission is being controlled as well... on purpose to prevent the stopping of the car. NOOOOOOOO, Toyota's are sentient and bent on destroying the human race!!!
 

krupted

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well i think i finally understand why me and others are having such a hard time arguing about the failing brakes. after talking with a good mechanic buddy of mine, he enlightened me to the point that there isnt any engine vacuum when the engine is redlined. it was on oversight on my part, because that completely explains why people cant use their brakes. i also forget how much stronger a man's legs are then a womans... i dont mean that in a critical way its just to point out the fact that loosing your power booster at that speed would be incredibly difficult for many people to use the brakes effectively. thats why these people arent getting their cars to stop, it really has nothing to do with fading brakes or anything...

this is also why we do still agree the best thing you can do is to shut off the engine. if you dont have a power booster at full throttle anyway, then whats the fear in losing your power brakes? there is the scary fact that some people would actually pull out the key and lock the steering wheel, but going forward while coasting is still better then going forward at full speed. well, in my opinion anyway.. .ill wait for some web links to prove me wrong!:p
 

krupted

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Try doing that in a manual equipped car and let me know how that works for you. 60 Minutes is telling people to leave the engine running for good reason.

even better. the car would engine brake to a stop automatically.... maybe i dont understand what you mean?
 

Blown 89

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even better. the car would engine brake to a stop automatically.... maybe i dont understand what you mean?
Doing so in a car geared aggressively causes a fairly violent and unsettling stop depending on the gear you're in. Also....how do you propose many of these Toyotas stop when a lot of them are equipped with a keyless ignition? Holding the start button for 3 seconds is a heck of a lot of time when things are going wrong and difficult to do under pressure. Pulling the key in many vehicles also locks the steering, kills power assists. Just slam on the brakes, don't pump them, hit them hard. In a lot of modern cars doing so while the throttle is engaged will disable the throttle.
 

Gideon

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Doing so in a car geared aggressively causes a fairly violent and unsettling stop depending on the gear you're in. Also....how do you propose many of these Toyotas stop when a lot of them are equipped with a keyless ignition? Holding the start button for 3 seconds is a heck of a lot of time when things are going wrong and difficult to do under pressure. Pulling the key in many vehicles also locks the steering, kills power assists. Just slam on the brakes, don't pump them, hit them hard. In a lot of modern cars doing so while the throttle is engaged will disable the throttle.

Actually Toyota has no software that will shutdown the throttle if the brake and throttle are applied. If they just added that software fix they would be fine. All american companies have this feature, I'm actually not sure why Toyota hasnt put it in. Best thing to do is just put the transmission in neutral and apply the brakes, no loss of steering or brakes. All the engine will do is bounce off the rev limiter.
 

krupted

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Best thing to do is just put the transmission in neutral and apply the brakes, no loss of steering or brakes. All the engine will do is bounce off the rev limiter.

you will still loose vacuum at full throttle. thats why people arent able to use the brakes.
 

steal

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All this time and people still don't understand Japanese business culture. More disturbingly, the U.S. government doesn't understand it. Japanese business culture always makes decisions based on maintaining and increasing an advantage period.

There is absolutely no concept of enlightened self interest. Every advantage is fiercely guarded and any changes come only from organizations with greater power. People believe that every corporate entity behaves in this manner but, they don't understand the insane, to the western world, level of competition.

They will rabidly defend any advantage while actively stealing any technology that has less than a clear cut or enforceable ownership. Trade deficits with Japan will only ever be addressed when they are forced to.

this is such a bunch of crap, and your entire post is nothing more than thinly-veiled racism

do you really believe that american corporations are above this sort of thing?
 

krupted

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Not if its a hybrid, it has electric brake assis,. cause the engine is not always running.

right but in the hybrids case, the brakes obviously arent enough to stop the car... least not in that guys case!:eek:
 
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