"The market is screaming for a solid third supplier....We are that company"

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jebo_4jc

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - April 2011
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Apr 8, 2005
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Interview with S-3 @ X-Bit.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/s3-interview.html

Competition is always good, so bring it on. I see that they are targeting enthusiasts, but with their top-end model only at $179-ish, I hope it has performance comparible to ATi's and nV's mid range products (6600GT or X800GT level).



Edit: Put my ellipses in the wrong place
 
I really would love to see S3 come out with something to compete even at the 6600 or 6600GT level with SOLID drivers with no weird problems. If they can do that for onboard graphics and partner with someone big, I imagine that is going to be great for the OEM market.

In this day & age, I _still_ can't figure out why desktop boards can't include integrated graphics that at least hit gef4ti4600 levels....

Rob
 
Robstar said:
In this day & age, I _still_ can't figure out why desktop boards can't include integrated graphics that at least hit gef4ti4600 levels....
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Well, really they do with the Radeon Xpress chipset, and the upcoming nvidia chipset, which will have geforce 6200-level graphics.
 
I have never even heard of that chipset and I have been building boxes forever. The nvidia stuff isn't out yet....nuff said :)

Rob
 
I had high hopes for XGI but the Volari wasnt all that great.
 
it will be interisting to see what they can come up with at that price point.
 
S3 is very....retro almost

Hopefully they can make a go at it. But with a 3-way market split, R&D budgets will probably take a hit for all 3 companies, leaving us with inferior products....

or maybe competition will be good and bring down inflated prices. I'll give it 50/50
 
 
XGI isnt gone either. They took a stab at it and no one does good on the first run. Practice makes perfect and they could FUBAR two more product line-ups and make a third one that runs all over Ati and nV. Same goes for S3...
 
Innocence said:
S3 is very....retro almost

Hopefully they can make a go at it. But with a 3-way market split, R&D budgets will probably take a hit for all 3 companies, leaving us with inferior products....

or maybe competition will be good and bring down inflated prices. I'll give it 50/50
Click to expand...

I think products will only get better with more competition. Remember 3dfx, nvidia, and ATI all duking it out? ATI products were horribly slow and unstable but had a great oem share, 3dfx was a household name since the original inception of SLI, and nvidia came out with the TNT2 then the GeForce to trounce everyone. 3dfx 'promised' a 4-gpu uber Voodoo that never saw the retail light of day, ATI came out with the Radeon 64 that really ate at nVIdia's market share, and S3 had a fling with the Savage 2000 that supposedly did t&l but really sucked, Rendition had the Verite that was kinda decend for the time, Matrox was a strong player, sheesh the list goes on and on!

Some of the best innovations and products came about when there was more competition.
 
DejaWiz said:
I think products will only get better with more competition. Remember 3dfx, nvidia, and ATI all duking it out? ATI products were horribly slow and unstable but had a great oem share, 3dfx was a household name since the original inception of SLI, and nvidia came out with the TNT2 then the GeForce to trounce everyone. 3dfx 'promised' a 4-gpu uber Voodoo that never saw the retail light of day, ATI came out with the Radeon 64 that really ate at nVIdia's market share, and S3 had a fling with the Savage 2000 that supposedly did t&l but really sucked, Rendition had the Verite that was kinda decend for the time, Matrox was a strong player, sheesh the list goes on and on!

Some of the best innovations and products came about when there was more competition.
Click to expand...
Hopefully that's how it will work.

S3 probably has bet the farm on this new chipset too....
 
The gammaChrome was their version 2 of the DeltaChrome right? If so then they have gotten a little practice under the belt and with VIA's manufacturing and IP portfolio I am sure they have made some real progress this time around. I am surprised they didn't mention SLi-like application for the S3 chips... I remember reading about it just a few days ago.

I think their plan is also solid. They are not going for #1 spot, they just want to be the #3. That IMO is an achievable goal and they can just keep building from that success.
 
I certainly welcome competition as well...but these "new" entrances into the high-end video card market face a big problem: drivers. Just making a nice chip isn't immensely hard...XGI proved that with the volari, which hardware-wise was fairly impressive. But drivers are a bitch. And that's where these other companies fail miserably. Anyone remember the Volari V8 dual-chip card which on paper was comparable to a 9700 pro, but in practice ran slower than an fx5200 in dx9 shaders because the drivers sucked ass?

As much as we give them flak, ati and nvidia both have INCREDIBLE driver teams (now, at least. old skool ati = teh suck)--and that's something a 3rd company is going to have a really hard time matching.
 
Eva_Unit_0 said:
I certainly welcome competition as well...but these "new" entrances into the high-end video card market face a big problem: drivers. Just making a nice chip isn't immensely hard...XGI proved that with the volari, which hardware-wise was fairly impressive. But drivers are a bitch. And that's where these other companies fail miserably. Anyone remember the Volari V8 dual-chip card which on paper was comparable to a 9700 pro, but in practice ran slower than an fx5200 in dx9 shaders because the drivers sucked ass?

As much as we give them flak, ati and nvidia both have INCREDIBLE driver teams (now, at least. old skool ati = teh suck)--and that's something a 3rd company is going to have a really hard time matching.
Click to expand...
that is very very true, i hope the S3 will make a killer card taht can beat out 7800gtx (unlikely) but if it could watch the prices for the top end cards drop and hopefully we will see mkore chipsets come out soon. But that will probably never happen :mad:
 
Robstar said:
I have never even heard of that chipset and I have been building boxes forever. The nvidia stuff isn't out yet....nuff said :)

Rob
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jebo_4jc said:
Are you serious?
Click to expand...

No shit, just because you "have been building boxes forever" does not mean you know everything. Apparently do not keep up on current hardware, nuff said. :rolleyes:


/me goes back to playing with his new Jetway Radeon Xpress 200 board. :cool:
 
air2k5 said:
that is very very true, i hope the S3 will make a killer card taht can beat out 7800gtx (unlikely) but if it could watch the prices for the top end cards drop and hopefully we will see mkore chipsets come out soon. But that will probably never happen :mad:
Click to expand...

S3 is not making cards for the top-end, only midrange and below
 
SnakEyez187 said:
S3 is not making cards for the top-end, only midrange and below
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That should read: "S3 is not making cards for the top-end yet. Only offerings for midrange and below are planned for the short-term future." ;)

Meaning, if their mid/low range products do surprisingly well in the competitive market, then they might have enough monetary margin to do something exceptionally substantial within their R&D department.
 
Hehe I remember buying an S3 video card to play Quake 3 on my celeron 466 mhz, the fricking motherboard wouldnt support it :(.
 
Juic3 said:
Hehe I remember buying an S3 video card to play Quake 3 on my celeron 466 mhz, the fricking motherboard wouldnt support it :(.
Click to expand...
Probably a 4x AGP card in a 2x slot or something. I had a similar problem once with a Voodoo2 3000.
 
jebo_4jc said:
Probably a 4x AGP card in a 2x slot or something. I had a similar problem once with a Voodoo2 3000.
Click to expand...

No lol, PCI graphics card dude ! The board didnt even have AGP.
 
Juic3 said:
No lol, PCI graphics card dude ! The board didnt even have AGP.
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Yeah...when I said "or something" I was trying to be generic. Obviously there are peculiarities to the PCI spec also....anyway....:)
 
Hah! Shweet. S3 comign back. I have two S3 cards right here beside me. I actually used one(S3 Trio64V2/DX) for a while while I saved up money to buy a 6600GT. The thing is from '96, and it ran CS1.6 at 800X600 at about 30 fps. Amazing. I also have another older card. I will have to look into these.
 
Ha Ha. S3 needs to shut the fuck up. They can't provide anything better than what is already out there. Even with integrated chips the ATi and Nvidia offerings are such much better and the same goes for the Intel ones.

S3 sucked back in the day
S3 still sucks today
and S3 will continue to suck in the future
 
Killdozer said:
Ha Ha. S3 needs to shut the fuck up. They can't provide anything better than what is already out there. Even with integrated chips the ATi and Nvidia offerings are such much better and the same goes for the Intel ones.

S3 sucked back in the day
S3 still sucks today
and S3 will continue to suck in the future
Click to expand...
I tell you what. You take that attitude, and move to a communist country where prices are set by the government.
I will be here, hoping that a little competition will help bring prices of the rest of the graphics cards industry down, and will encourage further advancement in technology.
 
Killdozer said:
Ha Ha. S3 needs to shut the fuck up. They can't provide anything better than what is already out there. Even with integrated chips the ATi and Nvidia offerings are such much better and the same goes for the Intel ones.

S3 sucked back in the day
S3 still sucks today
and S3 will continue to suck in the future
Click to expand...

Your assumptions will kill you one day
 
hmmm S3 might actually make a comeback, I know it would help prices on cards a bit.
 
Dillusion said:
XGI isnt gone either. They took a stab at it and no one does good on the first run. Practice makes perfect and they could FUBAR two more product line-ups and make a third one that runs all over Ati and nV. Same goes for S3...
Click to expand...


well 3dfx got it right the frist time then fucked up
 
Elios said:
well 3dfx got it right the frist time then fucked up
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Ain't that the truth.. V1 great, V2 better, V3 starting to fall behind, V4/V5 fell back some more, then, NO V6, cause they were gone..

On topic, I hope they make a go of it.. If they agressively attack the mid range, we will start to see some mighty nice price cuts in that area from NV and Ati..

I will personaly not buy a XGI or S3 card untill they become established enough in the market that they look like they will stay awhile.. Not this comeing and going stuff.. I went through hell with drivers for my V5 after 3dfx went out.. It was a good enough card for a year or 2 after they went out of business, but I had to rely on hacked drivers and searching for drivers that worked with game "X" and then find some, but those drivers don't work in game "Y".. Baahh!!, Never again..
 
jebo_4jc said:
Probably a 4x AGP card in a 2x slot or something. I had a similar problem once with a Voodoo2 3000.
Click to expand...

Nope, more like a 5v AGP card in a 3.3v only slot.
 
I must say, I find it funny how everyone keeps echoing "hey another competitor will bring prices down." I'm sorry, but that's not going to happen. Nvidia and ATI don't charge 500 bucks for a high end card for no reason--it's because that is bleeding edge technology that is inherently expensive. If S3 releases a real, competitive low to mid range card prices are NOT going to magically plumett on the 7800GTX and soon-to-be 1800XT. And if S3 releases a competitive high end card, they're just going to charge 500 bucks for that too, because they HAVE to. In fact, nothing other than time is going to bring those prices down. This is just my personal observation, but competition seems to make things ultimately MORE expensive because the companies involved rush and try to innovate faster and try to get better products to the market faster. And that all takes money.

Now don't get me wrong...competition is of course a good thing in our economic system. But another video card competitior is not going to affect prices like a lot of you think it will.
 
im wondering how many people read the link fully. unless my eyes are playing tricks S3 is planning on taking a big stick to Nvidia and ATI with a card that has higher clocks than anything currently on the market with things such as SM4.0 and lwer wattage per clock than any other card that nvidia or ATI currently have. now ATi is about to bring out their new line soon but from what i can tell nothing ground breaking is planned. if S3 are able to launch as they expect ATi will not be the only 90nm GPU on the market. i have to say this seems like nothing but great news. i like the idea of 3 big companies having it out and bringing new tech our way. this can only lead to good thingsand i cant wait to see what they are able to bring to the table.

EDIT: as for drivers they have a fairly large develoment team working on them so i dont think we will see the same problems driverwise that we did with XGi. its possible but less likely with a 300 man crew.
 
Better to nail the broader low-end market than spend time trying to achieve a short six month status as "fastest card manufacturer" whose products will only be bought by a tiny percentage of computer users.
 
Killdozer said:
S3 sucked back in the day
S3 still sucks today
and S3 will continue to suck in the future
Click to expand...

Wrong.
Wrong.
Since your obviously a n00b you probably shouldn't speculate on things such as this.
 
Eva_Unit_0 said:
Now don't get me wrong...competition is of course a good thing in our economic system. But another video card competitior is not going to affect prices like a lot of you think it will.
Click to expand...
Another competitor won't bring prices down on the bleeding-edge enthusiast products, but it may indeed drop the prices on the mid-range, which is the segment S3 wants to target.
 
DejaWiz said:
Another competitor won't bring prices down on the bleeding-edge enthusiast products, but it may indeed drop the prices on the mid-range, which is the segment S3 wants to target.
Click to expand...
That's exactly right. Nobody is saying "S3 will bring prices down." What I think we are hoping for is for S3's mainstream product to be competitive. Competition will always help bring prices down, and it will also encourage technology advancement. If S3 released a card for $170 today that could beat a 6800GT and X800XL (which are both selling for $250, let's say), we would all buy the S3....we would be stupid not to. When we are buying the S3 that makes the supply of the X800XL's and 6800GT's go way higher than the demand, and thus, prices will invariably fall. Why would nV and Ati sit on their XL's and GT's for $250, if they know very well that they won't be selling any at that price? They will be forced to either lower their prices and hope to break even on those cards, or else they will have to figure out how to manufacture them for cheaper, which would also bring prices down, or add a new feature, like VIVO or something, at the same $250 price.

If you want to see an example of an industry without much competition, check out the sound card industry. Because Creative has the gaming audio market by the gems, they have been "just average" I'd say, for the past 5 years, and are able to basically charge whatever they want. Look at how many people are spending $150-$400 on the various versions of X-Fi....a product that is relatively unknown at this point.
 
jebo_4jc said:
If you want to see an example of an industry without much competition, check out the sound card industry. Because Creative has the gaming audio market by the gems, they have been "just average" I'd say, for the past 5 years, and are able to basically charge whatever they want. Look at how many people are spending $150-$400 on the various versions of X-Fi....a product that is relatively unknown at this point.
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That's a very good example. One thing to include though- Creative may have the add-in audio card market by the short and curlies, but let's not forget about the advancements of integrated sound from RealTek. 4-5 years ago, I would not have dreamed of using on-board audio, and that's when I promptly bought an Audigy. However, now that RealTek has stepped up to bat, the feature set today is really quite impressive. Dolby Surround, 7.1 audio, fiber-optic capability, etc etc. I no longer even use my Audigy because all I do is game and occassionaly listen to MP3s and today's integrated audio is definitely up to that task. Granted, my home stereo system is a damn nice setup, so I don't need to go balls out with my pc audio. Others will say different, as they use their pc for A-V everything.

In contrast to the video card market, it's really kind of reversed. Sure, integrated video has been around for eons, but they all suck when it comes to 3d gaming as of late. I'm not discounting the ICP/MCP of the nForce with integrated video, as they can still do the job in a pinch (and with older games), but not to the level we are seeing with currently available mid to high-range AGP/PCI-e cards. Thus, I really am kinda confused as to why companies like ATI and nVIdia, who both make great mobile video products, don't put those chips into anything but laptops. If there were desktop boards out there sporting the new 7800 GO (or previos gen comparable), there would be many consumers running the route of HTPCs or pre-built OEMs that can actually be used for these newer games without spending an arm and a leg in upgrades. And not to mention all the diy-ers like us that would probably buy them if not for personal use, but to build systems for others.

Well, I guess it makes sense in the fact that they are willing to provide integrated video, but it's going to be so limited in what it can actually do that a consumer will be forced to drop another $100-$600 on an add-in gpu depending on what level of video performance they want.

I really hope to see some serious advancements in integrated video technology over the next few years.
 
About the mobos+integrated video, they don't manufacture the boards. Companies that do make motherboards don't want to add 100-xxx+ to the cost of a board, who wants to buy a 400 dollar card when the midrange performance on-board will be useless in 6 months? Not myself. You can't sell an integrated video device neither.
 
Killdozer said:
Ha Ha. S3 needs to shut the fuck up. They can't provide anything better than what is already out there. Even with integrated chips the ATi and Nvidia offerings are such much better and the same goes for the Intel ones.

S3 sucked back in the day
S3 still sucks today
and S3 will continue to suck in the future
Click to expand...
I think that's close minded and untrue. The Savage line had a place in the market, and filled that place quite nicely. I sold quite a few Savage cards back then with nary a qualm nor complaint. They did what they advertised. I'm a sucker for nVidia products, and admittedly not a big fan of ATI, but I'm not a !!!!!!.

I hope S3 does well, not only for competition, but because they have indeed had a pretty decent product in the past. They're on the same path as ATI. Let's just hope they can pull it off.
 
I think it would be appropriate to point out here that there are a lot of reviews/previews of nvidia's nForce 400 chipset out as of yesterday. It has Geforce 6100 level video. I'm already thinking about my 'next' HTPC with an underclocked A64, and integrated 6100 or (possibly) X1100 (or similar) video.
 
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