The Little Windows Defender Icon Who Cried Wolf

Discussion in 'Operating Systems' started by Oubadah, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. Oubadah

    Oubadah [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,507
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Is Microsoft trying to train users to ignore Window Defender warnings?

    I've noticed that they insist on spamming a yellow bang on the Windows Defender tray icon on one of my machines because they don't like the way I've configured Sleep. If I follow the warning and click Dismiss, the same stupid warning is back in a day or so. I even tried enabling the Hide non-critical notifications Group Policy to no avail.

    Just another symptom of Microsoft's new "fuck you, we know best" philosophy. Did it not occur to them that I might have configured Sleep that way for a reason?

    If you constantly spam warnings for trivial shit like battery life on your AV icon, then people are going to be inclined to ignore real warnings.
     
    B00nie and PliotronX like this.
  2. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,067
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2005
    First i hear of that one! Odd cause I don't use sleep either!
     
  3. bigdogchris

    bigdogchris Wii was a Novelty

    Messages:
    17,204
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Go to Control Panel\System and Security\Security and Maintenance then click on Change Security and Maintenance settings and uncheck every box that you can. See if that helps.
     
  4. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,072
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2016
    Has anyone else noticed how Windows Defender sits there not reporting anything like everything's fine, you perform a scan using Malwarebytes and all of a sudden Defender pipes up on how it's found suspicious items?

    I'm quite possibly more sensitive to the issue as I run Malwarebytes multiple times a day, I just found it very interesting....
     
  5. bigdogchris

    bigdogchris Wii was a Novelty

    Messages:
    17,204
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Well because Defender by default does quick scan. The files found by it are read when Malwarebytes touches them are probably in a spot only detectable during a Defender full scan.

    A good example of this is I have a File History drive that has some Nirsoft tools on it which Defender detects as PUP. It doesn't see them on the drive until File History runs the first time.
     
  6. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,072
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2016
    Shouldn't Windows Defender be running full real time protection? As soon as that Malware hits the hard drive shouldn't Defender pick it up?

    I mean, it obviously recognizes the signature.
     
  7. bigdogchris

    bigdogchris Wii was a Novelty

    Messages:
    17,204
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Sure, if the malware is on the computer after Defender is installed. It's also possible the definition to pick it up was installed after it hit the drive.
     
  8. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,072
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2016
    Next time I see it happen I'll have to take note as to how old the Malware is.

    It just worries me that Defender isn't as effective as I hoped it would be in relation to real time monitoring.
     
  9. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,815
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    My experience with Defender has been poor. It's usually not detecting anything and even when it is, it can't counteract.
     
    Wild1 likes this.
  10. Oubadah

    Oubadah [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,507
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    You guys seem to be saying that Windows Defender is not too hot. I used to use ESET SS (loved their firewall) but have gradually switched over to Defender as my ESET licenses for each machine expired because I kept hearing about how third party AVs were only increasing the attack surface of the system, and then I saw a paper showing how ESET was doing exactly that (via a dodgy SSL/TLS filtering implementation). I don’t download anything from shady/illegal sites and I’m a careful browser. The only other form of protection I use is uBlock Origin with the default filter set. Do you think I’m wrong to rely on Defender?

    It only happens on laptops.
     
  11. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,815
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Oubadah if you're surfing with Windows I would strongly suggest to surf only with script block enabled. Ad blocker does a lot already but it won't save you from malicious javascript directly in the site.
     
    BulletDust likes this.
  12. Oubadah

    Oubadah [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,507
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Regrettably, bigdogchris's suggestion did not resolve the issue (thanks for the suggestion though), so still looking for ways to prevent this annoying behavior.

    What Microsoft are doing here is effectively the same as if a car manufacturer decided spam the "check engine" light whenever the driver sets the air-con to a temperature that the manufacturer happens to deem uncomfortable or uneconomical.
     
  13. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,815
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    I would just change the car brand but that's me.
     
    Wild1 likes this.
  14. Denpepe

    Denpepe Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    459
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
  15. thebufenator

    thebufenator Gawd

    Messages:
    808
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Please be aware that defender on 10 is legit, and drastically different from what is on windows 7.
     
    ManofGod likes this.
  16. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,815
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    It's still not trustworthy. Even less than any general antivirus is.
     
  17. thebufenator

    thebufenator Gawd

    Messages:
    808
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    That's not accurate. But I am sure you are a security expert or you wouldn't be giving your opinions on that.
     
    GoldenTiger, Sulphademus and ManofGod like this.
  18. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,815
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Ok, I guess you can prove me wrong. You must have some comparison tests which show it's not as abysmal as it used to be. Missing 80% of attacks :)
     
  19. thebufenator

    thebufenator Gawd

    Messages:
    808
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    No, see, I have a sec+ so I am pretty much a security expert.

    (that's a joke)

    From real world experience Win 10 defender is very capable.
     
  20. Chuklr

    Chuklr Gawd

    Messages:
    656
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    AltTabbins likes this.
  21. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,815
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Just look at your own links results for defender for October 2016. Abysmal detection rate. And none of those AV suites catch 0-day attacks with any measure of reliability - so all you do is fool yourself into false security.

    Screen Shot 2018-03-19 at 17.18.09.png

    It seems that Defender has upped its play, still on 2017 it was considered poor as most.
     
    Wild1 likes this.
  22. Chuklr

    Chuklr Gawd

    Messages:
    656
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Please reply to the links I posted for February 2018 and December 2017.
     
    AltTabbins likes this.
  23. Wild1

    Wild1 n00bie

    Messages:
    24
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    I uninstalled Defender and turned it off through group policy. Waste of resources. I don't use any antivirus and haven't had any malware in 8 years. It's not that hard, just don't click on anything, think about it first.
     
  24. leezard

    leezard [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,308
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2004
    You ask for comparison proving his statement which he provides by giving results from less than a month ago. Your counter is to provide data from over a year ago?
     
    GoldenTiger and thebufenator like this.
  25. thebufenator

    thebufenator Gawd

    Messages:
    808
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    I am a big fan of disabling defender and then running a bigger resource hog that is less effective that costs money.

    MUCH BETTER. VERY WOW.
     
    pendragon1 and GoldenTiger like this.
  26. bigdogchris

    bigdogchris Wii was a Novelty

    Messages:
    17,204
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    I've got 16GB of ram. If I expected it to sit there unused I would be a moron.

    This isn't Windows XP and 512MB days anymore. If a program can run faster by using more memory, please do, that's what it's there for.
     
    Chuklr likes this.
  27. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    245
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Of course the problem with this comment is that coders are just becoming less efficient due to 16GB of ram and upwards. They're not exactly making effective use of increased memory, they're just being lazy, meaning that users of slower machines with 4GB of ram have an experience that's slow as molasses.

    I can't believe how well Windows 2000 on a Pentium 3 runs with 256MB of ram compared to Windows 10 on a budget AMD APU with 4GB of ram and the same speed mechanical HDD's. One experience is pleasurable, one is as pleasurable as getting teeth pulled.
     
    Wild1 likes this.
  28. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,815
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    No, the data I provided was what my comment was based on. It used to be piss poor and I don't hold any confidence that it will remain as effective as this in the long run.

    Not to mention that no antivirus gets a 100% detection rate, most of which are downright poor against 0-day exploits. Some antiviruses are targets of attack themselves.
     
    Wild1 likes this.
  29. bigdogchris

    bigdogchris Wii was a Novelty

    Messages:
    17,204
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    On my computer at this moment, Windows Defender service is using under 75MB of memory, and the tray icon is using around 1.5MB.

    So I don't know exactly what program you are referring to, since we are talking about Defender here, but I wouldn't call the utilization that I see as "lazy programing".
     
    AltTabbins likes this.
  30. AltTabbins

    AltTabbins I Post [H]ere Way Too Much

    Messages:
    17,586
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2005
    Soap doesn't kill 100% of germs. Maybe I should stop washing my hands after I piss. :D
     
  31. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,815
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Technically speaking there's no need to wash your hands after urinating unless you urinate on your fingers. Even then, urine is free of harmful bacteria on healthy persons.

    There's way more bacteria in the kitchen sponge than in your groin.

    Oh and by the way, regardless of hand washing millions of people still get sick. And millions of Windows users still get infected even with working AVs.

    Then again people who isolate themselves from public places and avoid physical contact with strangers, do not get sick as easily.
     
    Wild1 likes this.
  32. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    245
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    It was a comment in general, did I mention the words 'Windows' and 'Defender' in that post?

    As far as lean AV goes, I agree, Windows Defender is pretty much the leanest AV around.
     
  33. x509

    x509 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,527
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2009
    Good luck with that. Ever hear of "drive by downloads?" "Malvertising?" Legit websites get forcibly corrupted all the time.

    x509
     
  34. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,815
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    That's completely safe given you have no wifi and plug off the ethernet. Coincidentally the only way I would use Windows av or not.
     
    Mazzspeed likes this.
  35. Nobu

    Nobu [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,458
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Well, until they one day visit a public place and start kissing random strangers at least. Keep your AV up to date and scan occasionally and you'll probably be fine. Oh, and don't go kissing random strangers on the street. ;)

    They also show a warning when you don't share your executables with them. Never mind you might have to pay for excess bandwidth usage...
     
  36. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,815
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Kissing strangers on the street is the best time ever. Haven't you tried it?