The lies of IGP.

lightsout

[H]ard|Gawd
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IDK I was pretty happy with my little 2200G, it could play bf3 and 4 (yes old) at 1080p and hold 60fps pretty good, for an IGP that ain't bad.
 

coynatha

Limp Gawd
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I'm with ya OP. I like the 2400G. It's a great value. But where's a Ryzen 5 2600 + RX580 chip? A Ryzen 7 2700X + VEGA64? Make what people are going to pair up anyways and add value/reduce cost. I think it really does come down to sockets as someone mentioned. OEM's dont' want to deal with another, and AMD can't fit anymore than a 2400G into what they have at the moment as it is.
 

pitingres

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I'm with ya OP. I like the 2400G. It's a great value. But where's a Ryzen 5 2600 + RX580 chip? A Ryzen 7 2700X + VEGA64? Make what people are going to pair up anyways and add value/reduce cost. I think it really does come down to sockets as someone mentioned. OEM's dont' want to deal with another, and AMD can't fit anymore than a 2400G into what they have at the moment as it is.
I'd much rather have the 2600 / 2700X with a vega 3 APU so that I can build a server without having to add in a stupid RX550 or GT 1030. (or even GT710, which is pretty lame.)

If I want gaming performance I have no problem with expecting to include a gaming GPU, with the attendant memory and power resources needed.
 

Insomniator

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I never understood the APU excitement. People acted like a CPU having the performance of a ~$100 GPU was exciting but they never even reached that performance level.

I thought the idea was a real mid range APU that would be the same price as an intel chip. 1080p/medium settings would make sense for the average/occasional/non-enthusiast gamer. But all I have seen has been yeah faster than intel but still essentially useless.

I guess for super budget oriented people or developing countries... but it just doesn't make sense to me for even medium range people. Having a job in college pays enough to make the APU's not worth it.
 

lightsout

[H]ard|Gawd
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I'm with ya OP. I like the 2400G. It's a great value. But where's a Ryzen 5 2600 + RX580 chip? A Ryzen 7 2700X + VEGA64? Make what people are going to pair up anyways and add value/reduce cost. I think it really does come down to sockets as someone mentioned. OEM's dont' want to deal with another, and AMD can't fit anymore than a 2400G into what they have at the moment as it is.
That would probably take a whole new form factor. How is all that supposed to fit on a chip? What about the Gddr? Or is it just using system ram, at those speeds that would seem to be a huge bottleneck.

I mean it sounds awesome but realistically?
 

4330thgink

Gawd
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Having come from the time when onboard graphics sucked for everything except looking at your desktop or a text document - I wouldn't have fallen for it today for gaming.


Sure, integrated graphics has come a long ways since then, but if you're playing a real game, you'll need a real card. Sharing slower main memory hurts IGP's, then trying to pack 10lbs of crap in 5lbs of space nets you a loss on top of that. And sure, there are some games that function just fine with today's APU's.

The only viable use for integrated graphics is server duties, laptop/PC stuff which don't involve mainstream games, etc. Most folks around the world don't play real "games" on the computer, so an APU/IGP will work just fine. In lower usage CAD-E modeling, probably works fine there too.

When I build, I specifically avoid APU/IGP, even if the machine will only a basic computer. Even generations old basic video cards tend to work better for basic functions than integrated, some of which can be had for dirt cheap new or secondary market.
 

IdiotInCharge

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When I build, I specifically avoid APU/IGP, even if the machine will only a basic computer. Even generations old basic video cards tend to work better for basic functions than integrated, some of which can be had for dirt cheap new or secondary market.
This is patently false.

'Generations old video cards' can easily have sub-par support for modern decoding in hardware that your average user actually cares about, while IGPs are generally kept up to date. This is doubly so if any encoding is involved.
 

bobzdar

[H]ard|Gawd
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I mean, IGP's are not meant for power users, except maybe kabylake-g. If you're going to be doing anything power user like, you want a discrete gpu, be it laptop or desktop. That's why they make them, and why there is no end in sight to discrete graphics. However, for sff, thin and light laptops, mobile etc. igp is perfectly adequate. You can game at 720p high settings on a raven ridge, which to be perfectly honest is fine for any casual gaming as long as you're not a graphics whore. On a 13"-14" screen laptop, you can barely tell the difference between 720p and 1080p in a game anyway, especially if it's fast paced. If it's not, you can crank the graphics up to 1080p and deal with 30fps or you can spend an extra grand for a kaby-g Dell XPS.
 

Boil

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When I build, I specifically avoid APU/IGP, even if the machine will only a basic computer.
So, nothing but Xeons & non-APU Ryzens / Threadrippers for you, even if it is "only a basic computer"...?!?

I mean, IGP's are not meant for power users, except maybe kabylake-g.
Seeing as how the Kaby Lake G has dedicated memory for the Vega graphics portion of the package, is it really an APU, or a CPU with a dedicated GPU that just happens to be adjacent to the CPU...?
 

4330thgink

Gawd
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So, nothing but Xeons & non-APU Ryzens / Threadrippers for you, even if it is "only a basic computer"...?!?



Seeing as how the Kaby Lake G has dedicated memory for the Vega graphics portion of the package, is it really an APU, or a CPU with a dedicated GPU that just happens to be adjacent to the CPU...?

I'm running a 5820K with GTX 960 right now, my house/plex server is a E5-2667v2 with a Radeon 6850. The old lady has a I5-2320 with a GTX950, and I'm building her a Ryzen 2600 here shortly.
 

4330thgink

Gawd
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This is patently false.

'Generations old video cards' can easily have sub-par support for modern decoding in hardware that your average user actually cares about, while IGPs are generally kept up to date. This is doubly so if any encoding is involved.

It is patently true when all you need is basic video display with a good buffer. As I mentioned before, most people do not play games - only watching videos online, email, porn, general internet browsing, and the occasional .pdf/.doc/.xls document. A generations old video card will do the same thing.

My Phenom II with my old ATI 6850(2010 production) ran circles around my present company laptop I7-7700HQ in Bentley Microstation(CAD-E). That ATI card is now in my Plex/home server.
 

IdiotInCharge

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It is patently true when all you need is basic video display with a good buffer. As I mentioned before, most people do not play games - only watching videos online, email, porn, general internet browsing, and the occasional .pdf/.doc/.xls document. A generations old video card will do the same thing.

My Phenom II with my old ATI 6850(2010 production) ran circles around my present company laptop I7-7700HQ in Bentley Microstation(CAD-E). That ATI card is now in my Plex/home server.
If you're intent on doing more than casual gaming on the IGP, sure. That's not the common use case.
 

bobzdar

[H]ard|Gawd
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So, nothing but Xeons & non-APU Ryzens / Threadrippers for you, even if it is "only a basic computer"...?!?



Seeing as how the Kaby Lake G has dedicated memory for the Vega graphics portion of the package, is it really an APU, or a CPU with a dedicated GPU that just happens to be adjacent to the CPU...?
Given its it's a single package and the move to chiplets in general, I consider it an apu, but even if it's not the point stands - igp is fine for everything except higher end gaming and high performance computing, where discrete graphics do, and will for the foreseeable future, rule. 720p high quality is more than adequate for casual gaming, and amds apus pull that off without issue. Intel igp not so much, so AMD is fulfilling their promise.

There's no need for a low end discrete GPU like a gt1030 anymore, the Vega igp can match that. And with the GPU acceleration of most (modern) software that is also highly threaded, there's very little need for an 8+ core CPU without a half way decent dgpu to handle accelerated tasks.
 

next-Jin

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To be perfectly honest I had hope that AMD would release another CPU segment with APUs.

Ryzen (consumer)
Thread-ripper (HEDT/Workstation)
EPYC (server)

And a new APU similar to a PS5 that targets the HTPC/Home server market.

If the new APU they make for the PS4 has an 8 core Ryzen 2 and GTX 1080 class GPU like what’s being rumored they could easily sell those for 200-250.

Obviously it’ll be a lower clocked Ryzen but that’s some serious power at the price point.
 

Snowdog

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Given its it's a single package and the move to chiplets in general, I consider it an apu, but even if it's not the point stands - igp is fine for everything except higher end gaming and high performance computing, where discrete graphics do, and will for the foreseeable future, rule. 720p high quality is more than adequate for casual gaming, and amds apus pull that off without issue. Intel igp not so much, so AMD is fulfilling their promise.
Kaby-G is NOT APU/IGP. It's not even a chiplet design.

It's just a full fledged discrete CPU(heck the CPU still has it's Intel IGP), and discrete GPU chip connected via PCIe bus. Not electrically different than other laptops with discrete GPU chip. The only difference is it's physically closer on it's own little PC board.

As far as a real high powered APU equal to mid tier GPU goes: It's technically possible (XBox 1X), but it is a Niche, will be quite expensive, and require a new design with either a large enough socket to house HBM, or a GDDR6 higher bandwidth system memory design.

I don't see it happening outside of consoles. Outside of consoles, you get a lot more flexibility by keeping GPU separate if you want reasonable GPU and CPU power. Keeping them seperate, means you can mix and match for exactly the performance combo you want. It's easier to deliver more power to each package when separate, easier to keep them cooled when separate (Even trying to OC a lowly 2400G starts running into power/cooling issues).


Outside of Consoles, I expect APUs to keep evolving within the performance envelope of System Memory speed advances.
 

Boil

[H]ard|Gawd
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You want high-end APUs...?!?!

I got your high-end APUs...!!!


Now plug in your "Snowcrash Special Edition" VR headset & GET OFF MY LAWN...!!! ;^p
 
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