“The Last Jedi” Is the Most Divisive Star Wars Movie Between Fans and Critics

[NoOther]

Wait a minute. I though being a jedi (or sith) was necessary to use the force at higher levels. Yes luke commented that the force was strong, which only meant at the time that they were good candidates for jedi training, not that they could use the force wily nily without any training. Then what the hell was luke's jedi training about on dagobah if not for learning how to use the force.

No, you do not need to be a Jedi to use the force at higher levels. Jedi is merely a title. Training was necessary to hone skills and refine control of them. There are tons of examples in the greater Star Wars universe of force users who received only a little or no Jedi training at all.

 

[Domingo]

Rewatched the movie this past weekend. It's easily the worst of the non-prequels, but I'd still take it over all 3 of those. Just barely, though. It honestly feels like the writers had never watched the earlier movies. Rei is literally the only character that has any character continuity from the previous movie(s).

 

[NoOther]

It's weird how different Rogue One is from TFA and TLJ.

I don't hate TFA, but really dislike what most people dislike about TLJ.

Rogue One on the other hand I love.

I don't think it is that weird. People like the original trilogy. Rogue One was predominately based off the original trilogy and mythos. TFA and TLJ were made to break the mythos of the original trilogy and start a new mythos.

 

[DeathFromBelow]

They are fun in places and painful in others. Rey and Kylo could be good characters if they were handled somewhat differently. I think there are some good ideas there but the execution is lacking.

Why even bother debating with the trolls?

It seemed like they had a list of SJW beats they wanted to hit and ticked them off one at a time

Like always mentioning how 'the prequels are better' in every single post without making a single debate-worthy remark about the plot? It's impossible to have a Star Wars thread without being completely overrun by conservative SJW trolls.

The criticism of Luke's story arc is more substantive, but I still think I liked this storyline better than the super-Luke with wife and kids from the old EU.

Then what the hell was luke's jedi training about on dagobah if not for learning how to use the force.

Put it in perspective. How much time did Luke really spend with Yoda? He actually got less on-screen Jedi training than Rey did unless I'm mistaken. Seems like the challenging journey, force-endowed location, and guidance of a master is more important than the amount of time spent training.

 

[Verge]

Basically yes. There is no weight to anything and anyone in this. But the same could be said about VII. I'd even applaud it if they'd say: Everyone died and we start from scratch for IX.
Rogue One was no masterpiece either but at least it had characters.

100% agree, rogue one's plot was a bit screwy, but I slightly cared about those people when they died at the end, and of course we knew they were dying at the end beforehand.

Disneys is playing it safe to generate maximum revenue... take chances and the opportunity for failure increases. Not to mention complicated dialogue doesn't work when translated to Asia so they lose a huge chunk of money. It's the reason all of Hollywood is giving us dumbed down scripts.

 

[Stoly]

Put it in perspective. How much time did Luke really spend with Yoda? He actually got less on-screen Jedi training than Rey did unless I'm mistaken. Seems like the challenging journey, force-endowed location, and guidance of a master is more important than the amount of time spent training.

I think that was the biggest mistake with ROTJ. Its not really clear how much time passes between ESB and ROTJ but its apparently about 3 years. We have to assume Luke trained by himself as it seems he didn't go back to dagobah until he returs to complete his training and yoda dies.

But the time he spent training with Yoda? a few days, a week maybe?

 

[dvsman]

My memory is crap so I could have just forgotten but I don't recall Leia ever having been trained in anything at all "officially" and now that the books and expanded universe stuff was deleted, it really makes even less sense.

And one of you guys brought up a simple but good point - alot of "good" movies I can rewatch over and over, especially now with 4K or HDR or whatever. After watching this one just once, I have no desire at all to go back and rewatch it again.

 

[M76]

Put it in perspective. How much time did Luke really spend with Yoda? He actually got less on-screen Jedi training than Rey did unless I'm mistaken. Seems like the challenging journey, force-endowed location, and guidance of a master is more important than the amount of time spent training.

When did rey get any training? Haven't even met a jedi before the end of VII, after defeating Kygo who was training since childhood first under luke then snooky. It's bullshit however you tie the bow on it.

 

[thebufenator]

I don't think it is that weird. People like the original trilogy. Rogue One was predominately based off the original trilogy and mythos. TFA and TLJ were made to break the mythos of the original trilogy and start a new mythos.

Neutering Luke Skywalker aside, that whole "new mthos" has nothing to do with the garbage story in TLJ.

In Rogue One we saw a team come together to take on a suicide mission, and then the rest of the rebellion joined in. Actual military tactics and sacrifice.
TLJ?
RESCUE THE LAMMAS!!!!
WATCH OUR FLEET EXPLODE AS WE RUN OUT OF GAS!!! HIDE THE SECRET (garbage) PLANS FROM THE FLEET!!

Oh, "we win by saving those we love"
WHAT?!?!?!?!

In comparison we had Casian murder an informant at the beginning of Rogue One to ensure he escaped with the initial information about the Death Star. Making hard choices to ensure success.

 

[DeathFromBelow]

When did rey get any training? Haven't even met a jedi before the end of VII, after defeating Kygo who was training since childhood first under luke then snooky. It's bullshit however you tie the bow on it.

Episode 8 made it clear that there is a force connection between Ren and Rey. Their powers are tied together (Light/Dark rising to meet and all...).

8 also makes some of the dialog in TFA more clear. Go back and rewatch the TFA scene where Kylo Ren interrogates Rey, or the lightsaber fight. Ren is talking about himself as much as he is about her during the interrogation. He was looking for an apprentice to help him kill Snoke.

 

[Dan_D]

Quite frankly that is a terrible idea. The fans of the original trilogy are largely older folks who are not the main movie viewing audience. Disney needs to appeal to younger generations, which means reinventing the franchise. This is what they are currently doing. We may not like it, but it makes more business sense for Disney to go in a new direction. As I said in my other post, they still need to make a strong movie in this new direction for it to work, or they will suffer by losing the old fans and not capturing enough new fans.

Sorry, but the Clone Wars and Rebels do a better job of adding to the mythology and doing new things with new characters than the movies did. They still add to it while keeping sight of what made the earlier work so successful. That's not a bad idea at all. Those shows are also geared towards newer audiences and older ones alike. They manage to do things the right way and the movie producers can't.

I think there were lots of mistakes with EP VII and just got worse in EPVIII.

I don't get this Maz Kanata character. Its completely useless. Who better than Leia to be someone who knows about the force but is no jedi?, who better to introduce Rey to the force?. EP VII completely ingores this, but then in EPVIII out of nowhere Leia has Jedi powers.

What was wrong with Rey being Luke's daughter? It was hinted in the EP VII's trailer, but suddenly scrapped. Then again out of nowhere it turns out Rey's parents are some drunks. I guess there's still hope they were her foster parents, but I wouldn't count on it.

Kylo taking on Luke single handedly? Wouldn't it be better if Luke and his pupils were defeated by Kylo and the group that would become the knights of Ren? (of which we haven't seen anything yet).

I agree with most of what you said. I still think that a better explanation for why Rey doesn't need that much if any training is required. Snoke even mentions surprise at her skill and being able to best Kyle, injured or not so perhaps an explanation is coming but I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.

Luke doesn't die, he becomes one with the force. Actually a friend of mine at that time realized that Vader didn't kill Obi-Wan, he also became one with the force.

I do agree that Luke's character specially was treated like garbage.

His physical body dies and he's going to be a mouthy force ghost like Obi-Wan or Yoda which isn't what I wanted to see. At least, not for the reasons given in the film.

 

[WestSidaz]

Basic action packed movie where was few cool moments.. and ofcourse somekind of positive feeling from previous movies ^^

 

[tungt88]

The point that stood out to me (like so many have already pointed out) was how buffed Rey was ... a noob with apparently no special background / heritage and she kicks the grand son of the Force Messiah's ass without breaking a sweat. Did they retcon the whole Midichlorians thing? So now everybody can be a master of the force?

 

[Dan_D]

Basic action packed movie where was few cool moments.. and ofcourse somekind of positive feeling from previous movies ^^

I don't hate Episode VII or VIII as much as others do but I still found the later disappointing. I think there were so many missed opportunities that seemed obvious to everyone but the filmmakers. The Resistance is wholly incompetent and of course the SJW crap is hard to stomach. I've come to expect progressive messages in any entertainment given Hollywood's liberal proclivities. However, they used to be somewhat subtle about it and less "bury it to the hilt without lube" than they are now. The character of Rose served no purpose and the whole thing's forced diversity and "girl power" bullshit is hard to ignore.

The talk about giving the guy who directed Episode VIII an entirely new trilogy after this one is done is a very bad idea that doesn't bode well for the future.

 

[Sycraft]

Whiny nerds is basically the reason for bad audience scores. Remember audience scores are self-selecting. They don't go and do a statistically valid poll of the population, it is people choosing to leave reviews. So when a group of people get a burr in their butt about something, they can swing online opinion polls easily. It seems when you talk to most people they liked the movie. I mean it was nothing special or life changing, but it was a fun action movie with good effects and lots of great action. No it wasn't super deep or amazing... but neither were the original 3 when you look back at them. They were action movies in space based on westerns, with some eastern mysticism rolled in. Fun, enjoyable, and a great universe, but not the paragons some people make them out to be.

So why the nerd rage? Three reasons I've seen:

1) Comparing the new films to rose-coloured memories of the original three. They have a feeling of wonder and amazement from watching them as a kid, without a critical view, and magnified by time and they expect the new ones to live up to that, even though the original three wouldn't live up to that. They've never given the orignal three a critical viewing.

2) Angry anti-women crap. For some reason, there are a non-trivial number of people ho get all ass blasted by the fact that the lead is a woman, and they have to hate on them because of it. I don't get it myself, but it is a very real thing going on.

3) The stories aren't exactly what they think they should be. They have an idea, often hazy but still, of what should have gone on post 6 and the movies haven't been that, so they are mad because the version on the screen doesn't match the fandom in their head.

Really, if you just watch them for what they are, they are good but not spectacular films that are fun, which is all they need to be.

 

[NoOther]

Sorry, but the Clone Wars and Rebels do a better job of adding to the mythology and doing new things with new characters than the movies did. They still add to it while keeping sight of what made the earlier work so successful. That's not a bad idea at all. Those shows are also geared towards newer audiences and older ones alike. They manage to do things the right way and the movie producers can't.

First, that is your opinion. Second, that doesn't even matter because they are not trying to add to the mythology, they are literally trying to replace it. They can create all of their own content and stories in way they choose when they do that. Which includes trying to make the mythology and stories more appealing to current generations, which is the smart thing to do in a business sense.

This is basically the same argument about the old Star Trek movies vs the new ones. The new ones are far more popular and appeal to a far wider range of people.

 

[Dan_D]

Whiny nerds is basically the reason for bad audience scores. Remember audience scores are self-selecting. They don't go and do a statistically valid poll of the population, it is people choosing to leave reviews. So when a group of people get a burr in their butt about something, they can swing online opinion polls easily. It seems when you talk to most people they liked the movie. I mean it was nothing special or life changing, but it was a fun action movie with good effects and lots of great action. No it wasn't super deep or amazing... but neither were the original 3 when you look back at them. They were action movies in space based on westerns, with some eastern mysticism rolled in. Fun, enjoyable, and a great universe, but not the paragons some people make them out to be.

So why the nerd rage? Three reasons I've seen:

1) Comparing the new films to rose-coloured memories of the original three. They have a feeling of wonder and amazement from watching them as a kid, without a critical view, and magnified by time and they expect the new ones to live up to that, even though the original three wouldn't live up to that. They've never given the orignal three a critical viewing.

2) Angry anti-women crap. For some reason, there are a non-trivial number of people ho get all ass blasted by the fact that the lead is a woman, and they have to hate on them because of it. I don't get it myself, but it is a very real thing going on.

3) The stories aren't exactly what they think they should be. They have an idea, often hazy but still, of what should have gone on post 6 and the movies haven't been that, so they are mad because the version on the screen doesn't match the fandom in their head.

Really, if you just watch them for what they are, they are good but not spectacular films that are fun, which is all they need to be.

1.) I've said as much many times. The original films have bad dialog and other problems as well. Yet, there was a certain charm to those movies that makes them "good" today. The new films lack this charm and have few likable characters.

2.) I'm absolutely fine with a female lead. Of course everything seems to be going that direction for the sake of being "PC". Gender swaps without it enhancing the story are fucking retarded too. We are seeing some of that. There are cases where a female lead doesn't work or it's rather hard to suspend disbelief in certain scenarios. Its fine even in some of those cases. The problem isn't that there are female leads but rather how they are handled. Effectively, the female leads in contemporary films are all written as men with almost nothing feminine about them. Basically the message is that a strong female lead has to act like a man and that every man in the film with a female lead has to be a bumbling idiot or a weak character to help bolster the female protagonist.

The characters gender when handled correctly doesn't matter to me. The problem is, handling them correctly is pretty rare. Wonder Woman is the only film to do it right in recent memory. You'd have to go back a long way to find a good example before that. Sigourney Weaver in Alien /Aliens is another great example. She came across as tough, yet believable. Sarah Connor did the same. They were strong female characters who didn't have to be surrounded by weak males to work.

3.) There is some truth to this. Often fans think they know what they want but if they always had their way everything would come across like bad fan fiction (is there ever good fan fiction?) and what these people liked in the first place would be lost. That said, I think the people in charge of Star Wars have no idea how to tell a Star Wars story. It can be done. Rebels and Clone Wars did an excellent job for the most part and no one working on those projects had anything to do with the original trilogy beyond a couple of voice actors here and there. I genuinely liked Rogue One for the most part despite hating endings where everyone dies because.....reasons.

That said, I found it enjoyable enough anyway. I never felt particularly attached to any of its characters, so it was still missing something. In contrast the new "Episodes" treat the established characters very badly. I almost wish they went for a clean slate approach and set the new trilogy far enough ahead that none of the original characters would have been alive to worry about. Its better than handling them so badly. The fandom certainly has its expectations for how these characters would behave or how their lives should have gone. Right or wrong, people who grew up with them have an investment in those characters. After 30+ years using them at all is a bit of a gamble and one that didn't pay off in the hands of the current production teams.

 

[Dan_D]

First, that is your opinion. Second, that doesn't even matter because they are not trying to add to the mythology, they are literally trying to replace it. They can create all of their own content and stories in way they choose when they do that. Which includes trying to make the mythology and stories more appealing to current generations, which is the smart thing to do in a business sense.

This is basically the same argument about the old Star Trek movies vs the new ones. The new ones are far more popular and appeal to a far wider range of people.

I never said it wasn't an opinion. Reading comprehension seems to have fallen on this forum in the last couple of years. What you also fail to understand is that certain properties are popular for a reason. When you mess with that formula that has brought decades of success, it will either go really well or backfire horribly. Alienating existing fans who are at an age with more disposable income and children or grandchildren isn't a smart business decision. Yes, making the films more inclusive is a good business strategy, but I don't think that's what they've done here. I cited Rebels and Clone Wars, more so Rebels as newer works that I think did do that successfully.

That's just my opinion because evidently I have to say that now as it isn't automatically understood.

 

[NoOther]

I never said it wasn't an opinion. Reading comprehension seems to have fallen on this forum in the last couple of years. What you also fail to understand is that certain properties are popular for a reason. When you mess with that formula that has brought decades of success, it will either go really well or backfire horribly. Alienating existing fans who are at an age with more disposable income and children or grandchildren isn't a smart business decision. Yes, making the films more inclusive is a good business strategy, but I don't think that's what they've done here. I cited Rebels and Clone Wars, more so Rebels as newer works that I think did do that successfully.

That's just my opinion because evidently I have to say that now as it isn't automatically understood.

I didn't fail to comprehend. I stated it exactly as is. I even refuted your thought that certain properties are popular for a reason. Star Trek diverted from its original storyline and hard science base and became more accessible and therefore more popular. It brought in more money and gained more fans. You are suggesting they are alienating existing fans and that is not true. I know many existing fans that are perfectly fine with a new direction, especially because many have thought some of the old mythos was pretty ridiculous.

Another example: Game of Thrones. The TV series departs from the original, yet it is wildly popular. The Lord of the Rings movies left out some pretty huge parts of the original story and yet were still wildly popular.

 

[Dan_D]

I didn't fail to comprehend. I stated it exactly as is. I even refuted your thought that certain properties are popular for a reason. Star Trek diverted from its original storyline and hard science base and became more accessible and therefore more popular. It brought in more money and gained more fans. You are suggesting they are alienating existing fans and that is not true. I know many existing fans that are perfectly fine with a new direction, especially because many have thought some of the old mythos was pretty ridiculous.

Another example: Game of Thrones. The TV series departs from the original, yet it is wildly popular. The Lord of the Rings movies left out some pretty huge parts of the original story and yet were still wildly popular.

It doesn't always work. I'd argue that drastic changes in direction for established properties fail more often than they succeed. Some examples: Stargate Universe, Airwolf Season 4, Knight Rider Season 4, War of the World's Season 2, Terminator 3, 4, and Genysis, Robocop 3, the new Robocop movie. The new Star Trek is popular with the wider general audience but it has alienated some fans. In a business sense that's fine. However, the third movie didn't do that well compared to the first two, so even that's starting to flounder. Even as action movies some of the crap in them is so retarded I can't understand why anyone likes them. Then again we also have people eating tide pods and doing other dumb shit, so I have little faith in humanity.

There are derivative works and remakes, reboots etc. that work very well. The key is to capture the essence of what was good about the original stories while taking them in a new direction that makes it available to a newer or even a wider audience. Alienating your fan base is a dangerous game. While it worked for the new Star Trek films, it's not working for Star Wars.

 

[KamelRed]

I feel anyone who thinks TLJ is a good Star Wars movie has terrible taste.

 

[Kardonxt]

I just watched it recently and it was fine I guess.... Just like most of the Star Wars movies. I really don't get the fanfair outside of the people who saw it originally and had their minds blown by special effects.

The lore is decent, the games are fun, the movies are meh, and that's OK. I would opt to play KOTOR over watching one of the movies anyday.

 

[ravx25]

I have no issues with the general direction Rian Johnson took the Force. In the animated Clone Wars Anakin, Asohka and Obi Wan visit a planet where the Force lives, more or less, and there is a sister (Light Side) and Brother (Dark Side) and the father as the balance between them. I found this theory very enlightening and Rebels carried through it to a point. In the end episodes in Rebels, the find a mural on a wall with the characters.

I'm okay with the Force being a spiritual thing. This makes the Jedi and Sith merely religions interpreting their own view on it, but Rebels fleshed out the Force much better as a whole.

As a whole though, especially for character development, Rian Johnson took a big shit on the whole Star Wars property with this movie. Having an interesting big bad in Snoke and them tossing him away is bad directing to me. And I agree with others, the acting in general was bad. How do you have Luke show up in the end and not tell everyone, 'Hey I'm going to be a big distraction to give you guys time to get away'? Poe Dameron figured it out later on and then told everyone to run. Absolutely STUPID direction to me. I don't know. in general Rian Johnson is a horrible director I think. I very much want to see Disney pull Dave Filoni in from Rebels to direct these things, but I know he's said animation is his thing. Maybe at least consult with him on the story/plot at least?

 

[NoOther]

It doesn't always work. I'd argue that drastic changes in direction for established properties fail more often than they succeed. Some examples: Stargate Universe, Airwolf Season 4, Knight Rider Season 4, War of the World's Season 2, Terminator 3, 4, and Genysis, Robocop 3, the new Robocop movie. The new Star Trek is popular with the wider general audience but it has alienated some fans. In a business sense that's fine. However, the third movie didn't do that well compared to the first two, so even that's starting to flounder. Even as action movies some of the crap in them is so retarded I can't understand why anyone likes them. Then again we also have people eating tide pods and doing other dumb shit, so I have little faith in humanity.

There are derivative works and remakes, reboots etc. that work very well. The key is to capture the essence of what was good about the original stories while taking them in a new direction that makes it available to a newer or even a wider audience. Alienating your fan base is a dangerous game. While it worked for the new Star Trek films, it's not working for Star Wars.

It is true that sometimes it does not work, but doing nothing does nothing. You realize you are also basically arguing semantics at this point. Sequels and later seasons often don't do as well as the first movie or first few seasons of a show. Often those changes are made specifically because the show or franchise was already fading and they were attempting to catch new viewers. Had they not done anything, they would have still lost viewers.

 

[Armenius]

I'm quite enjoying the dichotomy setup between Ren and Rey. I would have been happy had either taken the other's hand at the end of 8, but the both of them ending up fighting each other for the lightsabre had me jumping out of my seat. It was also great to finally see the Imperial Guard in action.

 

[Neo_East]

Blatant SJW p.o.s. Disney took a crap on Star Wars legacy to push their corporate 'progressive' agenda for global enslavement. FU, Disney. Reactions to TLJ are a litmus test whether a person is awake or not.

 

[dvsman]

I don't have a problem whether Star Wars has a female lead or a minority lead or whatever. I enjoyed the Force Awakens. It had a story that it told and I was fine with it. Jump to The Last Jedi and Rian Johnson has things popping up with no or little explanation and we are supposed to just accept it?

1) The nobody junk yard chick suddenly becomes Bruce Lee of the force and a point as raised by others, beats down a guy raised / groomed since childhood in not only the force but light saber fighting. Knowing and using the force without training, okay I can kind of accept that. But suddenly becoming a light saber sensei out of the blue with no explanation and beating up on Kylo AND the Red Imperial Guards ... who are supposed to be top tier bad-asses ...

2) I liked the pudgy Asian kid but all of a sudden this janitor / mechanic is adopted into the rebellions' A Team? Then she rams the guy that is about to save the day because she likes him? Maybe it's the cynic in me but the whole Love Beats All thing was too on the nose.

3) We're running out of gas - but there's one ship that can track us. Me: How about you dumbasses split up?

4) The Flying Nun Leia ... <sigh>

 

[Aireoth]

Positives, It was beautiful, the best looking and shot Star Wars movie ever.

Lets see:
Light Saber fight against the red guard, amazing.
Lightspeed crash scene, amazing (even though it was, is and will be ridiculous, it looked and sounded amazing).
Prioritized real FX over CG, amazing (hate CG in almost all its forms, can always tell).
Cool iron and salt planet, nice homage to Hoth, good.

A personal like, taking that dump on JJ's work, I do not like his work or his vision, so for me that was a big positive.

Negatives, it was a bit plot breaking... ok quite plot breaking, but I'm willing to forgive that for how awesome the scene looked.

Cons:
Flying Leia... why.
The amazing leader (purple hair) was actually a shitty leader.
Hyperspace scene... so cool, but even if it was just this movie, why didn't they do it with one of the other ships and then just run with the rest???
The damn casino side quest.

End result, would watch again, I want to see better filmed scenes, quality cinematography, and real FX.

 

[Armenius]

Positives, It was beautiful, the best looking and shot Star Wars movie ever.

Lets see:
Light Saber fight against the red guard, amazing.
Lightspeed crash scene, amazing (even though it was, is and will be ridiculous, it looked and sounded amazing).
Prioritized real FX over CG, amazing (hate CG in almost all its forms, can always tell).
Cool iron and salt planet, nice homage to Hoth, good.

A personal like, taking that dump on JJ's work, I do not like his work or his vision, so for me that was a big positive.

Negatives, it was a bit plot breaking... ok quite plot breaking, but I'm willing to forgive that for how awesome the scene looked.

Cons:
Flying Leia... why.
The amazing leader (purple hair) was actually a shitty leader.
Hyperspace scene... so cool, but even if it was just this movie, why didn't they do it with one of the other ships and then just run with the rest???
The damn casino side quest.

End result, would watch again, I want to see better filmed scenes, quality cinematography, and real FX.

Pretty much echoes my opinions, exactly.

 

[NoOther]

Positives, It was beautiful, the best looking and shot Star Wars movie ever.

Lets see:
Light Saber fight against the red guard, amazing.
Lightspeed crash scene, amazing (even though it was, is and will be ridiculous, it looked and sounded amazing).
Prioritized real FX over CG, amazing (hate CG in almost all its forms, can always tell).
Cool iron and salt planet, nice homage to Hoth, good.

A personal like, taking that dump on JJ's work, I do not like his work or his vision, so for me that was a big positive.

Negatives, it was a bit plot breaking... ok quite plot breaking, but I'm willing to forgive that for how awesome the scene looked.

Cons:
Flying Leia... why.
The amazing leader (purple hair) was actually a shitty leader.
Hyperspace scene... so cool, but even if it was just this movie, why didn't they do it with one of the other ships and then just run with the rest???
The damn casino side quest.

End result, would watch again, I want to see better filmed scenes, quality cinematography, and real FX.

I would add a con the ridiculous ski speeder scene. I mean...no...just no. There is no way someone flying parallel to you reaches you before you can crash into the thing you are literally flying straight into...at maximum speed....and somehow they manage to also maneuver to hit you directly from the side....

 

[M76]

Positives, It was beautiful, the best looking and shot Star Wars movie ever.

Lets see:
Light Saber fight against the red guard, amazing.
Lightspeed crash scene, amazing (even though it was, is and will be ridiculous, it looked and sounded amazing).
Prioritized real FX over CG, amazing (hate CG in almost all its forms, can always tell).
Cool iron and salt planet, nice homage to Hoth, good.

A personal like, taking that dump on JJ's work, I do not like his work or his vision, so for me that was a big positive.

Negatives, it was a bit plot breaking... ok quite plot breaking, but I'm willing to forgive that for how awesome the scene looked.

Cons:
Flying Leia... why.
The amazing leader (purple hair) was actually a shitty leader.
Hyperspace scene... so cool, but even if it was just this movie, why didn't they do it with one of the other ships and then just run with the rest???
The damn casino side quest.

End result, would watch again, I want to see better filmed scenes, quality cinematography, and real FX.

The purple haired leader was such a perfect representation of what's wrong with society nowadays: There are people who feel they know better than others, and that others can't have opinions, because they already decided that their opinion is best. So anyone questioning it must be silenced without explanation. That's exactly what happened in this movie. The banning and demotion of Poe couldn't be more symbolic of crazy sjws wanting to ban people from social media who don't agree with them.

In reality a great leader doesn't need to assert their leadership, and doesn't elicit a mutiny against themselves due to lack of transparency. A leader's job among others is to inspire their people. Here the leader failed completely in that regard because they subordinated everything to the "you should've trusted the purple haired space feminist" idea. No, trust is earned, not granted based on gender, or even hair color.

I wouldn't watch it again. I'd watch the force awakens before this. It wasn't even a great action movie. Everyone was raving about the throne room fight. So I was really looking forward to it, and the result is pretty meh. Perhaps if they didn't inflate my expectations, I'd have liked it better.

 

[Aireoth]

The purple haired leader was such a perfect representation of what's wrong with society nowadays: There are people who feel they know better than others, and that others can't have opinions, because they already decided that their opinion is best. So anyone questioning it must be silenced without explanation. That's exactly what happened in this movie. The banning and demotion of Poe couldn't be more symbolic of crazy sjws wanting to ban people from social media who don't agree with them.

In reality a great leader doesn't need to assert their leadership, and doesn't elicit a mutiny against themselves due to lack of transparency. A leader's job among others is to inspire their people. Here the leader failed completely in that regard because they subordinated everything to the "you should've trusted the purple haired space feminist" idea. No, trust is earned, not granted based on gender, or even hair color.

I wouldn't watch it again. I'd watch the force awakens before this. It wasn't even a great action movie. Everyone was raving about the throne room fight. So I was really looking forward to it, and the result is pretty meh. Perhaps if they didn't inflate my expectations, I'd have liked it better.

I wouldn't go so overboard on the purple hair (calling her PH for now), it was just poor writing of what a leader and leadership is. Leadership is not 'trust in me and all will be OK' that is at best populism, and again if that is what they intended they did a poor job of it as populism requires connecting with someones gut or emotion, like Trump did.

A leader does not have to divulge the grand plan, and in PH's case given the Empire was chasing them and they really didn't know how, it makes sense not to divulge the plan. That being said, you don't just tell people to rely on hope, especially in a situation that seems entirely hopeless, you need to give them a reason to hope, like letting them know there actually is a plan just that you can't divulge it because of the real threat of spies. There was just no middle ground, and PH's plan was a good one if she was only able to be a good leader.

I don't watch trailers, or reviews, and do my best to avoid them and conversations because I like watching movies with as little expectation as possible.

 

[SmokeRngs]

Sadly, there was so much wrong with this movie.

One of the biggest draws of Star Wars movies historically were the space action scenes. This movie screws up practically every one of them. It has been months since I've seen the movie so my memory isn't the best on them but other than the first one, the rest were absolute crap. Space "bombers" which require gravity to work? The fact that a WWII era bomber could probably outrun one of these "bombers". A "real space" chase scene which completely ignores the fact that a single hyperspace jump in front of the ships being chased would have ended it and even the freshest fleet recruit should be able to think of that. None of the Rebel ships could bother to fuel up at any point despite the fact that having a full tank is usually a good idea when you're likely to be on the run at any point. The fact that the rebel ships simply wouldn't split up.

As already pointed out, the purple haired chick who took over control didn't really seem to be known by anyone or even trusted. I wouldn't have wanted to follow her either. There's absolutely no reason to listen to a damn thing she says. There's no reason to trust her. In fact, she was acting as if she was an agent for the New Order and trying to get them all killed. I absolutely hated her and she added absolutely nothing to the movie. For Leia to come back and back her up immediately made no sense whatsoever and was completely out of character. Leia was never one to leave everyone in the dark about plans from everyone.

As someone else put it so well, the casino side quest was horrible. It was a total waste of movie time and I simply couldn't wait until it ended. At the theater I left for a bathroom break since it was obvious I wasn't going to miss anything.

I also wasn't a fan of how they treated the Luke/Rey stuff. I still believe that Luke running off to hide is way out of character. Along with that his refusal to help anyone is also out of character. His super-zealot light side focus with regards to fearing Rey didn't feel right either. Instead of using Luke as a way to explore what was going on with Rey, they left it as him ranting and raving. He doesn't even make any attempt to temper what was happening with Rey and basically runs away in fear instead. It's almost completely out of character and makes no sense.

The original trilogy was by no means perfect with plenty of bad dialogue and hokey but at least it followed a fun formula and through the three movies stayed consistent with regards to characters and staying in character. There was plenty of room for change for the characters such as Han and Luke but their changes were a slow evolution.

There were even huge mistakes made between episodes 7 and 8. We had this whole massive buildup of finding Luke and his old lightsaber. The very beginning of episode 8 destroys this. It was a gigantic letdown and effectively a slap in the face to all the people who watched the movies. Hell, the whole first movie is about finding Luke because he's needed (I wasn't a big fan of that) and throughout the second movie it's shown he's useless. He's absolutely and completely useless. He didn't need to be some sort of savior in that everything is all well once he's found but there should have been some actual usefulness.

I could probably go on even more, especially if I'd have seen the movie recently, but I think I will stop here.

 

[Uvaman2]

Shit , was I the only one that found the movie funny.. I suppose with expectations so low after the first 2...
I mean Luke just tossing the saber over his shoulder was just funny to me... Then its like where you from to Rey.?. and that whole bit... Then is like 3 lessons and screw it ( was there even 3?)..
.. new order chasing the rebels are like .. why do we have all this things if we can't get some puny ships.. that was funny..
Then luke just cleaning his shoulder after being bombed.. just funny.. shit they basically made fun of Darth vader mask via kylo ren...
Then rey is like rocks its always rocks...
The force is whatever, and everything so whatever..
Shit the more i think about they just mocking star wars altogether. It didn't really affected me, I don't have deep fandom for SW.
The 'SJW' shit many complain about, I don't see it, again, i just found it funny, i agree the purple hair lady was just crap, but whatever. I do agree 101 % bubbling idiot men characters shit is getting old, but in this movie it felt light hearted and funny, so i didn't care.
But yeah, absolutely terrible movie if you are one that wants to see a bit serious aspects of SW there.. they just crapped all over it in my view.. it was funny to me, a bit subtle or light at times, but yeah I think crapped they did if wanted serious--er.

 

[ZodaEX]

I think crapped they did if wanted serious--er.

Star Wars isn't supposed to be super serious. Remember Chewy yelling the classic Tarzan cry while swinging across the vine? Remember the camel farting in Jar Jar's face and his pewewwey remark? The Clone Wars show has countless farts to undercut it's tone all the time.

 

[SmokeRngs]

Shit , was I the only one that found the movie funny.. I suppose with expectations so low after the first 2...
I mean Luke just tossing the saber over his shoulder was just funny to me... Then its like where you from to Rey.?. and that whole bit... Then is like 3 lessons and screw it ( was there even 3?)..
.. new order chasing the rebels are like .. why do we have all this things if we can't get some puny ships.. that was funny..
Then luke just cleaning his shoulder after being bombed.. just funny.. shit they basically made fun of Darth vader mask via kylo ren...
Then rey is like rocks its always rocks...
The force is whatever, and everything so whatever..
Shit the more i think about they just mocking star wars altogether. It didn't really affected me, I don't have deep fandom for SW.
The 'SJW' shit many complain about, I don't see it, again, i just found it funny, i agree the purple hair lady was just crap, but whatever. I do agree 101 % bubbling idiot men characters shit is getting old, but in this movie it felt light hearted and funny, so i didn't care.
But yeah, absolutely terrible movie if you are one that wants to see a bit serious aspects of SW there.. they just crapped all over it in my view.. it was funny to me, a bit subtle or light at times, but yeah I think crapped they did if wanted serious--er.

If this was supposed to be a Star Wars parody movie instead of a Star Wars movie your list would be fine. However, this was supposed to be a Star Wars movie. I have no problem with humor. There was plenty of humor in the original trilogy but very little of it was in your face stupid humor. It wasn't forced. The humor was part of the situation and/or the dialogue. It wasn't a pathetic, forced fart joke. I don't have a problem with fart jokes but I do have a problem with fart jokes forced into a situation which doesn't need it.

It's the very same reason why Ghostbusters 2 sucked compared to the first or Conan the Destroyer sucked compared to Conan the Barbarian, why Indiana Jones 4 sucked compared to the previous three. It was the issue of forcing jokes, humor and stupid situations into the movie which simply don't fit instead of using dialogue and natural situations.

 

[M76]

I wouldn't go so overboard on the purple hair (calling her PH for now), it was just poor writing of what a leader and leadership is. Leadership is not 'trust in me and all will be OK' that is at best populism, and again if that is what they intended they did a poor job of it as populism requires connecting with someones gut or emotion, like Trump did.

A leader does not have to divulge the grand plan, and in PH's case given the Empire was chasing them and they really didn't know how, it makes sense not to divulge the plan. That being said, you don't just tell people to rely on hope, especially in a situation that seems entirely hopeless, you need to give them a reason to hope, like letting them know there actually is a plan just that you can't divulge it because of the real threat of spies. There was just no middle ground, and PH's plan was a good one if she was only able to be a good leader.

I don't watch trailers, or reviews, and do my best to avoid them and conversations because I like watching movies with as little expectation as possible.

Intentional or not it's a perfect mirror for what's going on in the real world.
I don't read reviews before a movie either, but you just couldn't avoid all the fuss about the red room.

 

[toddw]

It was very entertaining, but it wasn't star wars.

Agree with most of this:

 

[DeathFromBelow]

I don't see how you can take 'reviews' like that seriously. Is that a goddamn furry?

The Phantom Menace was literally a tech demo for Lucasfilm. You may not have enjoyed 8's plot for whatever reason, but at least it had a plot.

I wouldn't go so overboard on the purple hair (calling her PH for now), it was just poor writing of what a leader and leadership is. Leadership is not 'trust in me and all will be OK' that is at best populism...

I thought vice admiral Holdo's character was designed to put people off like that... Finn tried to abandon ship immediately after her speech. Rose and Finn end up failing to get the right code breaker because of a parking ticket while Holdo fails because she can't rally her crew.

I think it would have helped audiences if they had a direct line between her and Leia after they were tracked through hyperspace, 'assume we have a mole' or something to explain why Holdo doesn't brief the rest of her staff on the backup plan.

 

[Dan_D]

Wait a minute. I though being a jedi (or sith) was necessary to use the force at higher levels. Yes luke commented that the force was strong, which only meant at the time that they were good candidates for jedi training, not that they could use the force wily nily without any training. Then what the hell was luke's jedi training about on dagobah if not for learning how to use the force.

Not at all. In fact, the Force has nothing to do with the Sith and Jedi orders beyond both organizations membership is comprised entirely of people who have the ability to use it in some capacity. Someone could learn to use the Force at a high level if they had access to the knowledge. The issue is that both orders hoarded holocrons and other materials on the subject in an effort to try and control what information was out there.