“The Last Jedi” Is the Most Divisive Star Wars Movie Between Fans and Critics

thebufenator said:
From reading the EU books......many many mnay books, Luke was always the one who would do whatever was needed to save the day, do what needed to be done.

Here, we see him give up after one failure. Vastly different.
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So you didn't get the memo from Disney that the EU is not cannon?

This is the sum of all the arguments... that people didn't get the story they had built up in their head.
 
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DeathFromBelow said:
Just got back from seeing it again. It's fantastic

Funny that the same people who bitched about TFA being too similar to ANH are bitching about this one being too different from the other films. Everybody has to whine about something, I guess.



themoon.jpg


Pretty sure gravity works outside the atmosphere in our universe, too.
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So you are saying the "Star Destroyer" has it's own gravity like a moon... OK...

That's why they keep making shitty movies in Hollywood because people don't have any logical or scientific sense, so why bother making it semi-realistic.

Bombers in Star Wars were never like bombers on Earth. The TIE-Bombers or B-Wings and Y-Wings shot torpedoes or space bombs at ships not "drop" them on top of them cause this is space. There's not enough gravity to act on such small objects that fast.
 
naib said:
the hyperspace suicide comes to mind. The director did a good job in silencing everything. however epic it is, it does cause some continuity issues... this should not be possible and raises the question ... why wasn't this used until now? hyperspace missiles could have taken out the deathstars...
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This can't happen in Star Wars universe before Disney took it over. Capital ships have shields that protect them against things like that AND the transport probably would have prevented the ship from jumping because there was object blocking its way.
 
Gasaraki_ said:
So you are saying the "Star Destroyer" has it's own gravity like a moon... OK...
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No. I take it reading isn't one of your strengths?

I think I've added more people to my ignore list from this thread than I have in the last couple years.
 
Spidey329 said:
I'm guessing that was Disney pandering to the Chinese market. You see that in a lot of big budget films now.


Saw it, spoiler wrap.

TLDr;
- Some dialogue and choreography was cringe inducing.
- Physics are turned on or off depending the scene requirements, apparently.
- Big tease of a battle turns into a "JK, peace out" moment.
- Mutiny? All is forgiven!
- We have enough fuel to fly for 18hrs or do 1 lightspeed jump. JK, we can lightspeed jump on near empty! Fuck your math.

It wasn't bad, it wasn't good. It was OK.

The opening scene (very first dialogue) was absolutely cringeworthy acting wise. There were moments where the bad acting and poor dialogue seemed like it may have been intentional.

The bombing scene was cool, but StarWars seems to have an alternative dimension for physics, because how was there gravity for the bombs (and the person) to fall? They were clearly in space. How does Leia get sucked into the vacuum of space and survive? No-one else survived. Force bubble or something? There's no explanation of that. The First Order cannons appear to fire with an arc .. in space .. where there's no gravity or horizon.

The final battle was interesting until it turned into a big tease of "oh, we're just joking, this epic battle is actually with a hologram." And then he just vanished?

The lightspeed ramming was interesting. But again, led to a weird plot hole. One, in all of their advanced technology they don't have an autopilot, so the purple haired lady had to stay behind? That seems convenient. She then sits around for 10 f-ing minutes just watching the transports get destroyed before deciding to do something.

Also, they continued to update us on the fact power was critical and they could only do one lightspeed jump, so they decided to flee traditionally .. yet, when we're again reminded their power is critical and all but empty (given the constant updates they feed us), they suddenly have enough power to do a lightspeed jump (ram)? As cool as it looked .. that makes no sense, that would be the lightspeed jump isn't that power hungry. If you can only afford one jump or to fly for 18 hours at normal speed, that stands to reason that the lightspeed jump is greater than the 2 or less hours of energy you had left.

They stop a mutiny and yet all was forgiven?

Don't even get me started on the tactics deployed. Or the obvious choreography in some of the bigger fight scenes.


So yeah, too many plot holes.
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They can add any fucking person to the movie, don't care what race they are. The plot holes are the issue and unforgivable.
 
XvMMvX said:
So you didn't get the memo from Disney that the EU is not cannon?

This is the sum of all the arguments... that people didn't get the story they had built up in their head.
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Come on now. You can remove the stories, but changing the character that much? You have 30 years of a Star Wars universe built around these characters.

Luke was always fighting the hard fight. "Nope just kidding, he sucks now"
 
JohnnyGatt said:
SPOILERS!!!! Big ones!!
Some funny things people missed and did not get after reading the reviews:

Luke was never on Kryat He used the force to project himself this is why he looked younger and using his blue saber the one ray and Kyle had just broke in two and its why he was so badass: Kylo says to Ray the second time they see each other through the force "you cannot be projecting yourself it would kill you" so using the force like this is a known killer of Jedi.

Ray stole all the Jedi books this is why Yoda says ray has everything she needs from the temple and its why Yoda is laughing at Luke's shock as all Yoda did was blow up an empty tree! :) you see the books on the falcon when Finn looks for a blanket for Rose.
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I actually did not notice about the books. I'll rewatch it this weekend and pay more attention.
 
I still have my complaints about the movie, but it still is a good movie. I want to watch it again.

My complaints are more like disappointments for some things.

Snoke dying too easy after a nice setup for him. Phasma dying so easily (similar to Boba Fett).

It's Star Wars. Fans are rabid and seek perfection. Super critical and expect the absolute best, which varies from person to person.
 
Ur_Mom said:
I still have my complaints about the movie, but it still is a good movie. I want to watch it again.

My complaints are more like disappointments for some things.

Snoke dying too easy after a nice setup for him. Phasma dying so easily (similar to Boba Fett).

It's Star Wars. Fans are rabid and seek perfection. Super critical and expect the absolute best, which varies from person to person.
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Agreed, Phasma was super disappointing. I am holding out a small hope she survived somehow but, I think it's a slim chance. Snoke was pretty disappointing too.
 
All this arguing over trivial things is meaningless! There's a serious issue at hand that we need to tackle before anything else!

Porgs were native to Ahch-To... but we saw a nest of them on the Millennium Falcon at one point, and they were at the battle on Crait....

Porgs are now an interstellar species!!!! The time to panic is now.

Or maybe it's the time for Porg McNuggets to become a new trend.... ;)
 
As a huge Star Wars geek the user score is very strange, but I think it's one of if not the best Star Wars movie out of them all.
 
Did Yoda just zap the library? Missed what caused that.

Also, if hyper speed suicide is a thing then why haven't we seen the development of missiles that can just rip dreadnaughts apart. Still enjoyable scene despite introducing a new means of warfare that would have been used already.

As for the bombs part. Spaceships generate gravity. Not a problem.
 
The 18 hour fuel issue: I don't think the hyper drive needs the fuel to enter hyperspace as much as it is needed for the distance of the jump. I would think that the hyper drive gets "charged" and once it enters hyperspace it begins consuming fuel to travel a certain distance.
So for me a none issue.


Yoda seemed a bit giddy when he was talking to Luke at the tree and when he set it on fire. He knew that Rey had already taken the books and put them on the Falcon; there is a short scene later in the movie showing the books in a drawer.
 
One thing that I wished they would've done: replaced Laura Dern's character arc with Admiral Ackbar. Ol' Fishhead deserved a proper sendoff.
 
that whole casino adventure ended up being a waste of time...why didn't the commander just tell Poe and everyone else that the plan was to use transport ships to escape onto that red mineral planet?...seems like Rian Johnson and Disney created the casino planet first and built the story around that instead of vice versa
 
SecretStash said:
Did Yoda just zap the library? Missed what caused that.

Also, if hyper speed suicide is a thing then why haven't we seen the development of missiles that can just rip dreadnaughts apart. Still enjoyable scene despite introducing a new means of warfare that would have been used already.

As for the bombs part. Spaceships generate gravity. Not a problem.
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Yep Yoda lit that thing up. :)
The books were long gone before then however.....

Enough people are going hammer and tongs on enough forums besides this one about what RJ did, and why and how he did it. I think he could have done better by the fans and still accomplished what he wanted to "burn it all down". But that's just one opinion out of billions. ;)
 
polonyc2 said:
that whole casino adventure ended up being a waste of time...why didn't the commander just tell Poe and everyone else that the plan was to use transport ships to escape onto that red mineral planet?...seems like Rian Johnson and Disney created the casino planet first and built the story around that instead of vice versa
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You might find this interesting... even though it is a Gawker site.... :p

https://kotaku.com/one-of-star-wars-the-last-jedis-biggest-problems-comes-1821358920
 
Colin Trevorrow was supposed to direct Episode 9 before he got the boot...now I'm thinking he might have actually had a good story which went against people's expectations which is why Disney fired him...you're not allowed to think outside the box and get creative with these movies otherwise they will find someone else (like JJ Abrams) willing to create the Disney-fied versions of them
 
but the Yoda ghost can now affect the physical realm. Force lightning after becoming one with the force? He just zapped it! Can't stop a ghost. Maybe Luke's ghost will be busy trolling kylo now. We could have a situation like Aragorn and his ghost army. That and hyperspace missiles just opened up a can of worms of possibilities in this universe.
 
The whole movie seemed like an epic time filler to me, nothing really happened. Rogue One has been the best movie in a long time.
 
Gasaraki_ said:
They can add any fucking person to the movie, don't care what race they are. The plot holes are the issue and unforgivable.
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Alright, I just watched it last night. I enjoyed the show and don't really have any problem with it at all. It was a good show .... what's a plot hole?
 
thebufenator said:
Come on now. You can remove the stories, but changing the character that much? You have 30 years of a Star Wars universe built around these characters.

Luke was always fighting the hard fight. "Nope just kidding, he sucks now"
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Luke never tried training a group of teenagers and had one go off and kill some and lead the others in revolt ....................................... Never heard of a life altering event?
 
Guarana [BAWLS] said:
https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a...-the-olde-1821396631?utm_medium=sharefromsite

I hands-down agree with just about every point in this list.
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good list. I disagree with the snoke+Kilo+helmet as a knock at the original.
In the original the helmet was needed and at that point Anakin had already proven himself to be a sith lord. Emoboy was being emo by wearing the helmet as he couldn't be intimidating without it, perceived the helmet was what he needed and craved to be like Vader.

The smackdown by snoke was perfect. In fact everything with snoke was good until the wiped him out like that and prematurely
 
It was entertaining but had some really cruddy parts to it.

- The Marvel-esque humor was lame such as Rey getting hit in the head by the lightsabre
- The Leia floating in space scene was extremely dumb and out of place
- Luke was not done well. It would have been cool to see him actually fight in the end and I thought the force projection was pretty stupid
- No consequences for the mutiny?

It would have been pretty cool if they did the unexpected and had Rey join the dark side when Kylo made the offer. Now it will continue as expected and be another generic story.
 
Since a definition of the word " force " is "to make someone do something against their will " how can the Force really be the force since it's clear that the Force never forced Luke to do anything Luke didn't want to do? :cool:
 
TheCommander said:
It was entertaining but had some really cruddy parts to it.

- The Marvel-esque humor was lame such as Rey getting hit in the head by the lightsabre
- The Leia floating in space scene was extremely dumb and out of place
- Luke was not done well. It would have been cool to see him actually fight in the end and I thought the force projection was pretty stupid
- No consequences for the mutiny?

It would have been pretty cool if they did the unexpected and had Rey join the dark side when Kylo made the offer. Now it will continue as expected and be another generic story.
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Weird, several of those are why I liked the movie. Divisive indeed.

As for your last point, that would be boring as the First Order already has overwhelming force against the Resistance. The war would be over in a matter of hours.
 
_l_ said:
Since a definition of the word " force " is "to make someone do something against their will " how can the Force really be the force since it's clear that the Force never forced Luke to do anything Luke didn't want to do?
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I'm take it you've never taken a physics class before?
 
Gasaraki_ said:
This can't happen in Star Wars universe before Disney took it over. Capital ships have shields that protect them against things like that AND the transport probably would have prevented the ship from jumping because there was object blocking its way.
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I completely agree (and this is why I am disappointed Disney are wiping stuff away ...)

That doesn't change the fact it was a well executed scene
 
TheCommander said:
- The Leia floating in space scene was extremely dumb and out of place
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And again, I disagree.

It would have been pretty cool if they did the unexpected and had Rey join the dark side when Kylo made the offer. Now it will continue as expected and be another generic story.
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Who knows what they might do. Anakin wanted to become a supreme leader before he was disfigured and we never got to see how that might play out.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
And again, I disagree.



Who knows what they might do. Anakin wanted to become a supreme leader before he was disfigured and we never got to see how that might play out.
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For me, it was the way she went back to the ship. It just did not look right at all. I think it would have looked a lot better if she had pulled the ship toward her rather than looking like she was flying in space.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
And again, I disagree.



Who knows what they might do. Anakin wanted to become a supreme leader before he was disfigured and we never got to see how that might play out.
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The animated clone wars proved Jedi could be in space for a short time using the force in episode 2, when Plo Kloon did it. My only gripe is that Leia was knocked out so she shouldn't have been able to use the force to do that. Watch from 2:05 - 2:30 to see.
 
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HardOCP being HardOCP and all perhaps one of the staff members would like to look into Metacritic(.com)'s falsification of user review stats for this film?

The total number of user reviews when one adds the good , neutral , and bad number stated number line bars adds up to way more than the number of ' all user reviews ' listed lower on the page.

In fact when one actually counts the visible user reviews the ratio skews the rating massively downward from the stated 4.9...putting it much closer to battlefront2's user rating which is currently .9 % , in fact based on the posted info on meta critic the user review number for TLJ should be closer to about 2.5.

To make sure I am being clear; metacritic seems to be fabricating 'good' user review numbers in direct relation to the number of 'bad' user reviews actually posted ...
 
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