“The Last Jedi” Is the Most Divisive Star Wars Movie Between Fans and Critics

Dan_D

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Wait a minute. I though being a jedi (or sith) was necessary to use the force at higher levels. Yes luke commented that the force was strong, which only meant at the time that they were good candidates for jedi training, not that they could use the force wily nily without any training. Then what the hell was luke's jedi training about on dagobah if not for learning how to use the force.

Not at all. In fact, the Force has nothing to do with the Sith and Jedi orders beyond both organizations membership is comprised entirely of people who have the ability to use it in some capacity. Someone could learn to use the Force at a high level if they had access to the knowledge. The issue is that both orders hoarded holocrons and other materials on the subject in an effort to try and control what information was out there.
 

Jagger100

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Not at all. In fact, the Force has nothing to do with the Sith and Jedi orders beyond both organizations membership is comprised entirely of people who have the ability to use it in some capacity. Someone could learn to use the Force at a high level if they had access to the knowledge. The issue is that both orders hoarded holocrons and other materials on the subject in an effort to try and control what information was out there.
No, a person might not even know they had force powers without training starting at an early age. training was definitely necessary at first for both Sides. After intially obtaining powers additional training on the light side was need to help keep from going Dark side.
 

Jagger100

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First, that is your opinion. Second, that doesn't even matter because they are not trying to add to the mythology, they are literally trying to replace it. They can create all of their own content and stories in way they choose when they do that. Which includes trying to make the mythology and stories more appealing to current generations, which is the smart thing to do in a business sense.

This is basically the same argument about the old Star Trek movies vs the new ones. The new ones are far more popular and appeal to a far wider range of people.
Adapting for a 'broader audience' hasn't worked too well since SW VIII is a disappointment especially globally.

The new ST's did better because they had much more build up in the form of 4 more TV series so you had the a broader age range of appeal. Also hollywood has learned to game audience attendance much better today than 30 years ago. That being said the JJA Star Trek movies are probably going to disappear down the memory hole. They SPFX flash and no real substance.
 

Dan_D

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No, a person might not even know they had force powers without training starting at an early age. training was definitely necessary at first for both Sides. After intially obtaining powers additional training on the light side was need to help keep from going Dark side.

I never said training wasn't necessary. I simply said the Sith and Jedi Orders were only one option for said training. There are other examples in Star Wars canon of people who had training in the force who weren't part of either order. There are again examples of people using the Force with little to no training. Luke had training, but he only had a fraction of the training that say his father had.
 

Susquehannock

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Any truth that Disney killed the Midi-chlorians?

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DeathFromBelow

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Any truth that Disney killed the Midi-chlorians?

They haven't been mentioned since Episode I.

Luke does tell Rey the Jedi Masters were a bunch of arrogant tards who just sat there and let Vader and the Empire rise right in front of their faces, probably the best way of integrating/rationalizing the prequels without talking about them too much or directly insulting George Lucas for his terrible writing.

One thing I do like in these newer films are all the direct ties to KOTOR. From the little visual things like the design of Kylo Ren's helmet or the Porgs being like Gizka, up to full plot elements like force connections. The pendant hanging in Luke's hut is a Jedi Crusader pendant from the Mandalorian Wars (they were the Jedi who followed Revan).

Pendant.png
 
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NoOther

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Adapting for a 'broader audience' hasn't worked too well since SW VIII is a disappointment especially globally.

The new ST's did better because they had much more build up in the form of 4 more TV series so you had the a broader age range of appeal. Also hollywood has learned to game audience attendance much better today than 30 years ago. That being said the JJA Star Trek movies are probably going to disappear down the memory hole. They SPFX flash and no real substance.

That is strange, since it brought in 620m domestically and 712m globally. That makes it the 7th all time domestic and 9th all time global. That still isn't close to its predecessor at 936m domestic and 1.1b global, but it is still significant. Compare that with ST/ST: Into Darkness which brought in 260/230m domestic and 130/240m globally. That isn't even in the same realm. So which one had the wider audience?

A lot of this seems to be people basing it upon personal opinion and some very vocal minorities. Only time will tell how it will end up doing.
 

Dan_D

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Any truth that Disney killed the Midi-chlorians?

View attachment 64895

As I've already stated, and as others have said: "Not expressly, but they haven't ever been mentioned again." As I said earlier, I think of them as the mechanism which allows people who have them to use the force rather than being the force itself. This is how the Jedi Order was able to test for force sensitivity during the Republic era. Had things been explained in this way I don't think there would have been quite as much outrage, if any at all. There were other things to hate about that movie, but a simple dialog change may have taken one thing off the list.
 

lilbabycat

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One thing I do like in these newer films are all the direct ties to KOTOR. From the little visual things like the design of Kylo Ren's helmet or the Porgs being like Gizka, up to full plot elements like force connections. The pendant hanging in Luke's hut is a Jedi Crusader pendant from the Mandalorian Wars (they were the Jedi who followed Revan).
View attachment 64900

While you "like" it, I am worried/excited. If the new trilogy is in the KOTOR timeframe, which references like this imply, I'm worried they're just gonna fuck it all up. What I want (and won't get):

1st movie - something paced like Blade Runner, not based around a jedi/sith, smuggler/renegade focused
2nd movie - main character from the first is killed early on, very unexpected, surprise sort of way, new main character is a sith and you follow his "world" (almost like one of storylines from the MMO, but not terrible); you end up seeing new main interacting with many characters from the old main, not just abandoning what you learned from first movie
3rd movie - the "villain" is a jedi, the climax ends up being the spark which starts a famous war. (take your pick: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_war_(Old_Republic), http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Era_of_the_Sith, http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hundred-Year_Darkness)
 

IdiotInCharge

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So, where's Thrawn, in the cinema?

Timonthy Zahn released an origins book, and apparently there's more to come!
 
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