Unless you know even an iota of universal truth, who are you to say? Amazing arrogance of some people, whether believers or anti-believers.
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The Internet Is A 'Gift From God'
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Unless you know even an iota of universal truth, who are you to say? Amazing arrogance of some people, whether believers or anti-believers.
D
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Science got us where we are now. Religion would have kept us thinking the Earth is the center of the universe and in the dark ages. Technology doesn't move forward because of Religion.
LMFAO
"Religion ruled the world and most empires for the last two millennia, and they had absolutely nothing do with with technological advancement, and all scientists were atheists who never worked with religious motivation."
Anti-religion fanatics are hilarious with the scope of their willful ignorance.
This is why context matters. The bible is far less contradictory than people make out if you read the entire passages instead of just single verses taken from places far removed from each other.
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I see we have trouble reading and make assumptions. I never said scientists were atheists. You would have to be shitting me if you thought Religion promoted science. People made advancements in science, but they weren't supported by the religious authorities, unless it benefited them. I mean the RCC was the institution that was persecuting scientists left and right if what they found didn't agree with the RCC's/Pope's teachings. If you learned about European History you would know that many of the early scientists before the Renaissance published their work right before they died so they couldn't be persecuted. Religious scientists existed, but they limited themselves as well. The only reason we moved ahead is because people stopped caring what the Church was going to do to them. Look at Galileo.
Maybe you should take a class on European History instead of pretending the Church somehow made the world advance technologically. Technological advancements suddenly became much quicker after the Church lost it's power.
Your snide comments are not philosophy.
No, I'm not shitting you. Clearly, however, you're uninterested to hear anything other than your hyperbolic and irrational opinion. So we'll just go with it.
Religion has permeated the world throughout civilized history and yet technological advancement and the progression of knowledge got through by lucky chance and the indomitability of the human spirit. Religion's only role has been to hold progress back, despite being responsible for much of the exploration of the Earth, the keeping of records throughout the Middle Ages, the expansion of philosophical studies, the basis for nearly all governments and societies, and the foundation for the moral paradigms that has led us to one of the most peaceful times in the planet's history(and considering how obliviously arrogant you've been acting, I'm sure you just shook your head at what I just said...but it is quite true). And puppies and kittens and unicorns will all shit rainbow sherbet and nap together in the sunshine.
Ironically enough, you speak of religion's willful ignorance while demonstrating that you are consumed by the same. Is religion perfect? Fuck no. And as soon as you come up with a similarly constructive and timeless organizing principle for human beings, we can all switch over to your utopia. Meanwhile, we are where we are because of the natural progress of society, which has been dominated by religion since the first human looked to the sky and wondered what was up there.
I don't belong to a single religion, nor hold a single religious belief. I am also sick and fucking tired of the enormous bunch of assholes who have nothing better to do with their days than deride and denigrate anyone who holds a different idea than they hold about creation, the purpose of existence, and all the other questions to which neither you nor anyone else has any objective, demonstrable answers.
You know one good thing about religion? Religion promotes humility. You and your ilk could use an enormous dose of that shit.
heatlesssun
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If he hasn't sent you a PM calling you the lowest form of life, he's not shitting on you.
D
Deleted whining member 223597
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Funny how you keep accusing me of belonging to some certain group, even though you know nothing about me.
You can keep telling yourself Religion promotes something good, but in the end all it proved throughout history is that greed and corruption exist everywhere. The RCC lashed out at anyone who went against them(hey look at a lot of governments today, which are so great!). Look at the Reformation. Protestants, specifically Lutherans, are the one group of Christianity that tried to get rid of the corruption and greed, and guess what. The RCC persecuted them like no tomorrow. All Religion has proven is that if you are with them you are good, but if you are against their beliefs you get prosecuted for heresy. I really hope we can go back to that so all freedoms are thrown out the window, the ones I thought you were so annoyed at being infringed by the US government.
You can keep telling yourself Religion promotes something good, but in the end all it proved throughout history is that greed and corruption exist everywhere. The RCC lashed out at anyone who went against them(hey look at a lot of governments today, which are so great!). Look at the Reformation. Protestants, specifically Lutherans, are the one group of Christianity that tried to get rid of the corruption and greed, and guess what. The RCC persecuted them like no tomorrow. All Religion has proven is that if you are with them you are good, but if you are against their beliefs you get prosecuted for heresy. I really hope we can go back to that so all freedoms are thrown out the window, the ones I thought you were so annoyed at being infringed by the US government.
D
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Yep. That's all it did. Thanks for the clarification, oracle.
Read a few history books on European History, then come back. It's getting really uninteresting when you just resort to these attempts at getting me to attack you.
Yossarian22
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There used to be a time when religion, philosophy, and science flew under the same banner, so to speak... Until about Galileo.
I've found philosophy to be very spiritual though, all by itself and also a good vehicle for critical thinking.
In general though, religion requires leaps of faith and science requires the utmost scrutiny. They're both things that serve different purposes (spirituality vs. knowledge of the world), so comparing them is a bit silly. Along with taking anything religion has to say as fact about the empirical world around us.
In other words, both sides need to sit back and chill -- to think about the purposes of both things and get them in correct perspective.
I don't believe in gifts from the divine in the same sense i believe that God doesn't make miracles, man does.
But there are those who are religious and also scientists. I think having some sort of spirituality in your life isn't exactly a negative thing, the problem comes when people take their religion and try to apply what is supposed to be spiritual to what ought to be science and vice versa. Historically speaking, religion might be the leading cause of death but a lot of religious kept records of important scientific, philosophical, and other documents with monks, scribes, and other such things.
Also friendly PSA, read some philosophy texts, serious brain food.
Insula Gilliganis
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If the Internet is a gift from God, then [H] must be a miracle of epic proportions!! I already thought Kyle and Steve were a cardinal and bishop of church of the Internet so this kind of confirms it all.
About all the other stuff written in this thread.. will just quote an imaginary alien.. "live long and prosper"
About all the other stuff written in this thread.. will just quote an imaginary alien.. "live long and prosper"
Red Falcon
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Because science communities don't do this?
Because technology communities don't do this?
Because corporations and companies don't do this?
Because governments don't do this?
Because cults don't do this?
LOL
You just described every single group on the face of the planet!
If they were in fact catholic priests as you imply, can you point on the doll where they touched you? This area here is "bad touch".
If context were so important, then why did Christianity go to such great lengths to prevent the people from even being able to read the bible, until books became so cheap to manufacture and literacy reached such a high level that it could no longer be stopped?
Here's a quote from Pope Innocent for example:
"In truth the secret mysteries of faith are not to be exposed to all everywhere, since they cannot be understood by all everywhere, but only by those who can grasp them with the intellect of faith.
Therefore, to the more simple the Apostle says I gave you milk to drink as unto little ones in Christ, not meat [I Cor 3:2]. For solid food is for the elders, as he said: We speak wisdom...among the perfect [I Cor. 2:6]; for I judged not myself to know anything among you, but Jesus Christ and Him Crucified [I Cor. 2:2]. For so great is the depth of Divine Scripture that not only the simple and the unlettered, but even the learned and the prudent are not fully able to explore the understanding of it. Therefore, Scripture says that many searching have failed in their search [Ps. 63:7]. So it was rightly stated of old in the divine law, that even the beast which touched the mountain should be stoned [Heb. 12:20; Exod. 19:12], lest, indeed, any simple and ignorant person should presume to reach the sublimity of Sacred Scripture, or to preach it to others. For it is written: Seek not the things that are too high for thee [Ecclus. 3:22]. Therefore the Apostle warns not to be more wise than it behooveth to be wise, but to be wise unto sobriety [Rom. 12:3]. "
Better to recognize religion for what it historically has been, a tool to control the sheep, and since the bible is a bit of a swiss army knife being able to be quoted (at the very least out of context, and that context was only framed by religious leaders) in any way that they wanted, it allowed them to wield great power.
The bible makes it very clear, all the way back from Genesis where gaining knowledge was man's first sin (btw, if God didn't want Adam to eat the apple, why the hell didn't he put the tree on a tall cliff surrounded by rose bushes to at least make it less tempting??? Ugh!), that the people are to remain stupid and content with their lot in life. Its generally a pacification tool, but that has violent verses in it that can be quoted whenever you want to mobilize for war profiteering.
Hagrid
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I agree about it being mostly corrupted(Maybe 99%). It is pretty sad.
Honestly I'm Christian, but I've got a few problems with religion in general.
1. People are lazy, and would rather take the word of a stranger telling them what the will of God is than opening their damn Bibles or whatever and read and understand for themselves. All it results in is hatred, manipulation and conflict where those claiming to be the voices of god guide people like sheep. People mistake faith for stupidity and laziness.
2. If God REALLY made us all, why the hell would he designate people to go to Heaven or Hell? Why would there be different religions? Different books "Inspired" by God instead of just one he gave us directly?
3. Total BS you can be a murderer, thief or rapist your entire life, then get into Heaven because you prayed on your deathbed while a person who lived a good humble life full of acts of love and charity goes to Hell because they were the wrong religion.
4. Everything that happens bad in your life is your fault or a test by God, but anything positive is by his grace, it has nothing to do with the amount of work, practice or studying you did.
1. People are lazy, and would rather take the word of a stranger telling them what the will of God is than opening their damn Bibles or whatever and read and understand for themselves. All it results in is hatred, manipulation and conflict where those claiming to be the voices of god guide people like sheep. People mistake faith for stupidity and laziness.
2. If God REALLY made us all, why the hell would he designate people to go to Heaven or Hell? Why would there be different religions? Different books "Inspired" by God instead of just one he gave us directly?
3. Total BS you can be a murderer, thief or rapist your entire life, then get into Heaven because you prayed on your deathbed while a person who lived a good humble life full of acts of love and charity goes to Hell because they were the wrong religion.
4. Everything that happens bad in your life is your fault or a test by God, but anything positive is by his grace, it has nothing to do with the amount of work, practice or studying you did.
I am confused as to how to define yourself as a christian when your beliefs run contrary to it. For that matter, why try and force a label on yourself that clearly doesn't fit. Quicker you accept yourself for who you are and walk a path that is true to your "Core" belief system, the happier you are going to be.
Its funny, with religion we all pray to God.
Some call him Jesus, God, Allah, the Great Spirit....
I just don't see what makes us all so different.
I was raided Christian, hence my core beliefs, but I can't say which type anymore.
Mom was Baptist, Dad was Lutheran and have family that are Catholic and Jewish and even Muslim.
We all believe in God, love each other, and feel we'll see each other in Heaven some day because our walk with god is more important than what we label that walk to be.
So if that makes me not a Christian, then feel free to label me whatever you'd like.
The point was, you don't need a label. Calling yourself christian when it the basic tenants of the religion go against your beliefs seems silly. Remember, you can have a Spiritual belief system and not be affiliated with a religion. Religion is just a construct by man to control man..nothing more. You don't need a bunch of "mans rules" to tell you how to interact with god. That should simply be between you and god. The second someone starts telling you how you should believe in god, is the second you need to just ignore them for being a moron.
Too many people in this world don't understand the difference between religion and Spiritual belief. They aren't the same thing and one of them is completely unnecessary. Major religions fear people learning that, hence why they spend so much effort "indoctrinating" people (fancy speak for brainwashing), instead of teaching them openly how to have a spiritual life. If people ever on the whole figured out that very distinct difference, you would see the worlds major religions collapse and disappear. You see, spiritual belief doesn't require eternal damnation or rules or pomp. It doesn't require shoving your beliefs down other peoples throats and attempting to force them to live like you. It doesn't require decrying any "competition" as a false religion..I could go on for quite a while but I hope you get it at this point. In short, it simply requires being what you personally and truly believe in your heart, Not what you were force fed all your life and told to believe.
heatlesssun
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If I were trying to create a religion to control people I don't think it would have been Christianity. Jesus was constantly at odds with authority and had zero respect for it.
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That's what the RCC was there for.
Skripka
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And it did a pretty damn good job at it until Martin Luther came along with paper, pen, and hammer/nails.
heatlesssun
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Sure, it's definitely served that role. Again, it's just hard for me to see how Christianity itself would be an good tool to use to control people. One of the central themes of the Gospel is religious corruption, indeed Jesus as crucified because the religious establishment of the day saw him as a threat to their power and control and Jesus talked constantly about the corruption and hypocrisy of those leaders, he flat out hated all of that nonsense. And when he was bought before the secular political authorities he pretty much just told them to take a hike.
The actions of Jesus in the Gospel have been a timeless an inspiration to many radical leaders that rebelled against oppression, from Martin Luther to Martin Luther King.
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While I'm not a fan of any Religion, I can appreciate his attempts at going back to the basics. It's funny how the RCC deemed it wrong for the regular old people,peasants to read the Bible. They pretty much called the common people stupid.
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Deleted whining member 223597
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OK here you go, I'll give you how. The RCC used Christianity to scare the commoners. They basically just established themselves as the "enlightened" ones, since they were the only ones who could teach things from the Bible. They established a whole organization, and if you were against it you were considered a heretic and burned at the stake. They justified their actions by saying it was God's will, and bending that excuse to serve them whenever they needed it. That's how you use Religion to control people. It's actually pretty interesting and very effective. People weren't allowed individual thoughts, they were all basically brainwashed to believe everything the RCC said and never question it for fear of going to Hell.
Oddly enough, Hitler used the same type of tactic. He gave the Germans hope and pointed fingers at people to get others to support him. In the Middle Ages people were depressed and hated life, the RCC gave them hope with Heaven. Germany was devastated and in a shit situation after WW1, Hitler gave them options to get back.
The tactic of inciting fear, offering a positive future and blaming others works great for controlling others.
Can't say I agree with your logic on that point.
In the Christian doctrine, being forgiven is not the same as being innocent. Judgment by God is not the same as being forgiven by God and the bible spells out the judgment criteria pretty well, in multiple verses.
As for science being able to take on religion, most scientific people do not believe in or admit belief in the existence of the spirit or paranormal and seem all too content to 'just believe' there are aliens out there, with no evidence to support the belief. Heck, they even go as far as accepting aliens are visiting the Earth, of which there is absolutely no physical way for living beings to travel from one populated solar system to ours, much less intergalactic travel which would require another impossible feat of cheating time. If they see a demon or angel they immediately jump to 'it was an alien'. How funny is that. (Hint: If you hadn't guessed, spirituality does explain the science of every 'alien encounter' that has ever been, what I loosely term with the word, 'documented'.)
heatlesssun
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And all I am saying is that the Bible is replete with the concept that the "enlightened" ones are the often just the opposite.
I agree on that statement. Which is why I hold a dim view or organized religion, of which is controlled by, well, controlling types.
All the evil done by people in the name of God does not change the fact it was still evil and does not prove anything that can change a persons religious belief that God created everything in the universe, including the laws of physics and science.
One question: If you believe there is no God, where did the big bang come from and from where did that come from? And, how will it all end?
Yep. Even astronauts claim to have 'documented' aliens. If you have only a view to the 4 dimensions we exist by ('time' being the fourth) you would not understand spirituality. Being that I have witnessed both science and paranormal realms, your response is pretty ignorant.
heatlesssun
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Who is to say that God didn't cause the Big Bang? How will it all end? These questions are not that important in the Christian faith. This is what I think xIronCrossx is referring to when he talks about control. What's the point of someone preaching about the age of the universe or how it was created when there are more pressing matters like feeding the family, staying faithful in ones marriage, tithing, resisting addiction and helping others lead healthy and productive lives. I'm never going to have it figured out compared to an almighty God, at there's no requirement in Christianity to do so. That's a burden that man came up with.