The highly rated HP Pavilion Slimline PC thread

Ok guys please bear with me ... I have read through this thread a number of times now and the most recommended video cards particularly the 8600gt galaxy is out of stock. I also understand that it's best to go with GDDR3 over GDDR2.

Persuing through Newegg, I came across this MSI NX8600GT GDDR3 PCI express card ...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127286

... any reason as to why this would not work well?

I've got an s3223w, 2 gb ram, and the 4400+ (2.3 ghz) cpu. Thanks for any advice.
 
That will NOT work. It is a full height card. The only other low profile 8600gt card available in the US is the Chaintech GSV86GT. This one is also out of stock at NewEgg, but you may have luck asking them to restock the item.
 
Hmmm ... any recommendations then on a decent card that is in stock? I also notice that the Chaintech is a DDR2. Is that really that bad compared to a DDR3?

I wouldn't mind having a card that can handle some level of gaming, but I am aiming more for just overall better video performance and freeing up the RAM for the CPU. Thanks again.

[edit]

For what it's worth, the cards that I gathered from this thread which are available now are ...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127301

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814122037

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814103047&Tpk=hd2400+low+profile

I am not too comfortable with the passive heating on MSI (first link) and Leadtek (second) although I think they are far more powerful than the Diamond (last) which has a fan.
 
the.ronin said:
Hmmm ... any recommendations then on a decent card that is in stock? I also notice that the Chaintech is a DDR2. Is that really that bad compared to a DDR3?

I wouldn't mind having a card that can handle some level of gaming, but I am aiming more for just overall better video performance and freeing up the RAM for the CPU. Thanks again.

[edit]

For what it's worth, the cards that I gathered from this thread which are available now are ...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127301

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814122037

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814103047&Tpk=hd2400+low+profile

I am not too comfortable with the passive heating on MSI (first link) and Leadtek (second) although I think they are far more powerful than the Diamond (last) which has a fan.
Click to expand...

DDR2-256MB-30W ---> you should be fine with one of these
DDR2-512MB-30W ---> nonono... for AMD(160W) slims. Maybe for Intel(180W) slims
DDR3-256MB-30W ---> you should be perfect with this
DDR3-*512MB*-30W ---> For AMD(160W) will work but if your game uses all of the 512MB there may be a shutdown because of extra power draw and heat in this tiny case. If you have an Intel than you should be fine with this with 180Watt power supply. This is *my* unprofessional opinion.

BAD news my shop called and said that ncixus was backorderd on the card so no I have to wait until any random day until comes... if only they had this card on newegg. Oh BTW i called and they said they definitely have more shipments on the way.
 
comp.u.newb said:
DDR2-256MB-30W ---> you should be fine with one of these
DDR2-512MB-30W ---> nonono... for AMD(160W) slims. Maybe for Intel(180W) slims
DDR3-256MB-30W ---> you should be perfect with this
DDR3-*512MB*-30W ---> For AMD(160W) will work but if your game uses all of the 512MB there may be a shutdown because of extra power draw and heat in this tiny case. If you have an Intel than you should be fine with this with 180Watt power supply. This is *my* unprofessional opinion.

BAD news my shop called and said that ncixus was backorderd on the card so no I have to wait until any random day until comes... if only they had this card on newegg. Oh BTW i called and they said they definitely have more shipments on the way.
Click to expand...

Compunewb?

What are you drawing on to say that a 512MB card is a no-go on the AMD system?

Your wattage figures? Where did you get those, and why worry about 256 and 512 if the wattage draw numbers are the same. The difference in an additional 256MB of RAM power draw should be minimal in and of itself --- does the memory controller use more? Are these just your opinions or do you have links from testing performed. I will remind folk that if you get the BE-2400 processor for the AMD based slimline you likely should be able to run any of the 8600GT cards mentioned above because you are saving 20 watts on the processor. (65 watt normal, 45 watt BE-2400)
 
Archaea said:
Compunewb?

What are you drawing on to say that a 512MB card is a no-go on the AMD system?

Your wattage figures? Where did you get those, and why worry about 256 and 512 if the wattage draw numbers are the same. The difference in an additional 256MB of RAM power draw should be minimal in and of itself --- does the memory controller use more? Are these just your opinions or do you have links from testing performed. I will remind folk that if you get the BE-2400 processor for the AMD based slimline you likely should be able to run any of the 8600GT cards mentioned above because you are saving 20 watts on the processor. (65 watt normal, 45 watt BE-2400)
Click to expand...
---
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=7&t=9354
^Shows minimal to maximum power draw (Max wattage ouput):
---
Having more memory can significantly increase wattage
HD 3650 _________#¦)##}|' 13W-39W & (256MB)
HD 3650 _________##¦)###}' 19W-53W § (512MB)
---
http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=7&t=9354
^As said here what increases/decreases MAX wattage consumption
---
It seems that the main factors behind power consumption are:
- Core/Mem clock speeds - Higher clocks equal higher power consumption. (eg look at the difference between the 7900 GTX & GT, both the same GPU and memory but the core and memory are clocked differently, producing a 36W difference. Similar story with the X1900XT/XTX)
- Die size/fabrication process (110nm/90nm etc) - Smaller process equals a smaller die, thus less power needed. For example look at the 7900 GTX, it's a 196 mm² die size while the X1900XTX is 352 mm², both are 90nm, and clocked almost exactly the same but the 7900 GTX draws 36W less.
- Amount and type of onboard RAM - Greater amounts of onboard RAM capacity mean greater power consumption. Also newer GDDR draws less power GDDR > GDDR2 > GDDR3 > GDDR4. (eg look at the difference between the X1900XT & X1900XT 256MB model, same in every way except capacity and GDDR3 vs GDDR4 respectively, which results in a 10W drop)
---
http://www.ocmodshop.com/ocmodshop.aspx?a=868
^(White paper)Confirms that newer memory draws less power.
---
DDR3 SDRAM or double-data-rate three synchronous dynamic random access memory is the name of the new DDR memory standard that has been developed as the successor to DDR2 SDRAM.

The memory comes with a promise of a power consumption reduction of 40%(~17%) compared to current commercial DDR2 modules, due to DDR3's 90 nm fabrication technology, allowing for lower operating currents and voltages (1.5 V, compared to DDR2's 1.8 V or DDR's 2.5 V). "Dual-gate" transistors will be used to reduce leakage of current.
---
http://forum.mwave.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=599
^White paper released by Nvidia 8600GT (could not find the exact white paper) NVIDIA rates the maximum board power consumption at 43-watts
---
GeForce 8600GT-based graphics cards only require a six-layer PCB instead of the eight-layer PCB of the 8600GTS. The physical board size is also smaller too measuring in at 6.9 x 4.376 inches. GeForce 8600GT-based cards do not require external PCIe power. NVIDIA rates the maximum board power consumption at 43-watts 28-watts less than the 8600GTS.
---
^NVIDIA rates the maximum board power consumption at 43-watts = The maximum configuration possible with GDDR3 type memory so I guess that the max memory size that will ever be released for the 8600GT will be 512MB so I think it's "8600GT GDDR3 512MB = ~43W".
Some of this information may or may not be fact. Thats how I made my own unprofessional opinion.
---
CPUID (Form CPU-Z)
http://www.cpuid.com/vvikoo-8600gt-hd2600pro.php
---
8600GT, GDDR2, 256MB of RAM rated at ~43W (or less)
---
^but you should get a significant drop if it is DDR3 then again clock speed can also raise the Watts as the galaxy card is rated at 1.4Ghz.
 
Yeah Archaea I agree with you that the AMD 45W should run any type of 8600GT at any configuration. I am assuming the 8500GT 512MB GDDR2 will take to much power because of the memory type and the amount. Again I don't know that much about PCs as I am studying meteorology and not pc hardware.
 
comp.u.newb said:
...
Click to expand...

Comp.u.newb!

That's good info! Thank you! The last two links with the Nvidia specific max draw of 43 watts for a 8600GT is good news!

Anybody bought that chaintech card from newegg? Curious if the fan is overbearingly loud???
 
comp.u.newb said:
The chaintech card is back in stock! if anyone wants to order it. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814145153&Tpk=low+profile+video+card
Click to expand...


I'm not sure if it's a big deal to people, but it should be noted that the chaintech card is not HDCP compliant. I wrote their tech support to find out. Got a reply in broken "engrish" that said the HDCP module would not fit on a low profile card and so it's not HDCP.

That's fine if that's their response, but it's not entirely accurate for low profile cards in general. My XFX 8400GS is HDCP and it's low profile. Lack of HDCP won't hurt you at all if you don't care about Blue-Ray or HD-DVD playback and you can bypass it with Blue-Ray and HD-DVD if you use "AnyDVD" software - but it's worth noting in case someone is buying this card for use in a home-theatre PC setup.
 
The Galaxy 8600GT with DDR3 is surely a lot faster than the chaintech one that uses DDR2.
 
Hello all been reading this forum for a while and copying and upgrading based on your advice. I have upgraded my S3020n with 2GB of Corsair DDR2 667 PC2 5300 ram last year, and 2 months ago the Leadtek 8400GS video card both from Newegg. The upgrades work great and I have had no issues until today. The monitor will not turn on. It has power, but it says no signal detected (I am using the DVI output) My external Western Digital back-up drive will power up, but then power down about 10 seconds later. This happens everytime I turn on the computer. I could understand maybe having a bad video card, but I can't understand what that has to do with the external drive. Could someone possibly point me in the right direction so I could get this fixed. Thanks
 
Quick suggestion is to make sure the power cable is firmly seated in the back of the computer.

Haasman
 
I got the Chaintech 8600GT and installed it .. it's very tight in there.

vidcard1eh1.jpg


vidcard2su5.jpg


I haven't really had the chance to test it gaming-wise or raw photo editing yet though. I can hear the fan but it's pretty quiet - so far. Will report back on how it handles World in Conflict. :D

[edit]

One thing I did find curious ... the Bios automatically reverted to PCI video from onboard. Also, isn't the card technically in the PCI-E slot? I just left it alone since everything seemed to be working ok.
 
I'm very interested in the Chaintech 8600GT for my slim Vostro 200. Does it come with those low profile brackets?
 
larken said:
I'm very interested in the Chaintech 8600GT for my slim Vostro 200. Does it come with those low profile brackets?
Click to expand...

No ... it just comes with an S video cable, manual, and install CD. I got some XFX low profile brackets which worked perfectly. Notice though that I had to remove the modem PCI to accomodate the VGA plug ... not losing sleep over it though.
 
Ok for whatever reason, I was always under the impression that my s3223w could only support 2 GB max of RAM. I was persuing throught the specs and evidently it can handle 4 GB of RAM.

Do you think I would run into issues with the 8600GT and 4 GB of RAM? I also recall reading that some people are installing RAM faster than the prescribed PC2-5300?
 
nope, no issues yet I got mine today and so far no speed bumps. But I am not going to upgrade my proc anymore unless it's a 45W. I am satisfied with the current speed I have.
 
Thanks for the response, compunewb ... I’m kicking myself for not getting the 4GB setup to begin with. I’m thinking PC26400 this time around as opposed to the prescribed 5300 I think it was. Which ones did you get?

After that, I think I’ll have gotten the most out of this thing that I am comfortable with.
 
the.ronin said:
Thanks for the response, compunewb ... I’m kicking myself for not getting the 4GB setup to begin with. I’m thinking PC26400 this time around as opposed to the prescribed 5300 I think it was. Which ones did you get?

After that, I think I’ll have gotten the most out of this thing that I am comfortable with.
Click to expand...

PC2-6400-800 @ 1.8V 240-pin DDR2. Any RAM of your flavor will be good. Just make sure if you get one with heatsinks that are small enough to fit in there. Also vista says it has 4.0GB but thats because of the SP1 update, technically you will have 3.0-3.5GB. And yeah 4GB will fit on this particular board. BTW I will be away for a while but I will return the 22nd.
 
jschatz said:
comp_u_newb,

Thanks for the heads up I wont try it. I was only going to try cause it was cheaper but if there is a chance it will draw to much or get to hot i am not going to risk it.
Click to expand...

Ooops... sorry dude I was confusing this card with the 8500GT... sorry :( but hey at first glance who would not get confused.

8500GT, 450/900/400, 16 Stream Processors, 128-bit, 512MB, GDDR2

VS the

8600GT, 540/1190/800, 32 Stream Processors, 128-bit, 512MB, GDDR2

If it works for the.ronin then go ahead and *try it*.

The Galaxy card even do it has less memory should run 15-20% faster but I only recommend if you have 4GB because future games require 512MB. But with 4GB you should pick up for the loss of memory on the galaxy 8600GT 256MB. If your limit is 2GB then go for the newegg 8600GT 512MB because it has more dedicated RAM and you will be able to play future games with it.

I want everyone to have the most powerful slimlines possible. Again sorry.
 
Well passing a verdict might be premature ... I''ve only had the Chaintech 8600GT installed for a day. More importantly, I haven't done much of anything to really tax it. I will be sure to report back when I do or if any issues come up. Otherwise, yes, smooth sailing.
 
Ok in real life I don't talk to myself like this.

But I just upgraded to 4GB of RAM so I thought I'd report back. I was intending to pickup a pair of Crucial PC6400 2x2s but, aside from being out of stock, I spotted a pair of AData PC6400 (1.8v) for just less than $80 before $15 MIR. Couldn't resist ...

rammed1ky3.jpg


Pretty tight overhead though ... not sure if those "heat spreaders" are a gimmick but maybe they'll help ...

rammed2pe9.jpg


Speaking of cooling, I wonder if there's a chance of joey modding the otherwise useless pocket media bay as a place for forced air induction??

breath1iy5.jpg


Also interesting thing I noticed. When I ran the 2GB Kingston PC5300s, computer ran about low 90s F under low load (casual web browsing, etc). When I replaced those in preparation for returning them with the stock 1GB sticks, temps ran in the high 90s sometimes breaking 100. Now I've got the 4GB ADatas in there and I'm barely breaking 80 ... whats up with that?
 
comp.u.newb said:
heat spreaders maybe?
Click to expand...

Heat Spreaders can't actually lower temperatures being created in the case overall, they can reduce individual "hotspot" temperatures by spreading the hotspot out over the lenth of the RAM, but if 15 watts of power is being used to power the RAM, 15 watts of heat is going to be produced, with or without heatspreaders....I'm not sure where the temperature sensor is on these slimlines...if it's right next to the RAM it could be picking up on a "hotspot" of a memory module or something if the RAM has no heat spreader. Or perhaps the four GB of RAM generate a bit more heat and that small amount of additional heat just nudges over some sort of temperature threshhold that in turn makes the CPU fan ramp up a tiny bit more to deal with the extra heat (CPU fan exhausts out the back of the case) which makes the overall case temp a bit cooler.

Not sure there's a solid answer for your question. I'm still awaiting my new one to come in - I'm hoping it arrives today so I can play with it over the weekend.
 
the.ronin said:
Now I've got the 4GB ADatas in there and I'm barely breaking 80 ... whats up with that?
Click to expand...

Just as CPUs and GPUs are made on different processes (90nm, 65nm, 55nm, etc.) so is memory. The smaller the process, generally the less electrical energy used and the less heat is dissipated. It's possible that the 2GB sticks of RAM are very recently produced chips on a much smaller process than the other sticks of memory.
 
"...SUNNYVALE, Calif. -- March 27, 2008 --AMD (NYSE: AMD) today announced the availability of the world’s first energy-efficient desktop quad-core processor, providing customers with a cool and quiet digital media workhorse. With AMD Phenom™ X4 9100e quad-core processors, digital media enthusiasts and performance-hungry users can experience the powerful computing capabilities of a true multi-core architecture with a processor operating at a maximum of 65–watts."[1]

[1] AMD.com

Imagine if the HP bios supported this 65w chip! I hope there will be a number of ways to "enhance" the HP bios to make it accept the quad. First 65W quad core...
 
March 31, 2008 "...HP has added a new slim home desktop PC to its Pavilion lineup, and the machine happens to be powered by one of AMD's new B3-revision Phenom processors. Interestingly, HP didn't opt for the chipmaker's cheapest quad-core offering. The PC vendor instead chose the Phenom X4 9100e, which runs at only 1.8GHz with a 65W thermal envelope and seems to be pegged as a power-efficient model. The chip launched at around $200 last week, making it a little pricier than the 2.2GHz Phenom 9550." [1]

[1] techreport.com

Confirmed it with HP that this chip is compatible with my board!(Asus M2N61-AR or Acacia-GL6E) the only problem is I cant find it... it runs cooler than my current proc!

more info

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01374066&lc=en&cc=us&lang=en&product=3688745&dlc=en

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01321559&lc=en&cc=us&lang=en&product=3688745&dlc=en

Also the 4850e will probably be available to us before the Quad(s). Suggested release date April 15th.

"...AMD has planned to launch several low-power variants of its quad-core Phenom and dual-core Athlon CPUs to launch late this quarter or early in the second quarter of 2008. On the Quad-core side, there will be Phenom 9100e with a core frequency of 1.8GHz, DDR2 1066 memory controller and TDP of 65W, and followed by Phenom 9150e. Three dual-core low-power processors will be launched: Athlon 4850e (2.5GHz, 1MB L2 cache and DDR2 800), Athlon 4450e (2.3GHz, 1MB L2 cache and DDR2 800) and Athlon 4050e (2.1GHz, 1MB L2 cache and DDR 800)." [1]

[1] www.onesgadget.com
 
Ok so the temps are back up ... around 38-40 C on the CPU under normal load. I know this isn't something to really worry about - I understand sustained 60 C or greater is considered dangerous. What sort of temps are you guys seeing?

I really wish there was some sort of cooling solution that took advantage of that media bay. I was looking at the Thermaltake external USB fan but can't find a spot on the case that would make sense, much less accommodate it.
 
comp.u.newb,

I was going to use it to stream hd content but its not hdcp compliant
 
the.ronin said:
No ... it just comes with an S video cable, manual, and install CD. I got some XFX low profile brackets which worked perfectly. Notice though that I had to remove the modem PCI to accomodate the VGA plug ... not losing sleep over it though.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I went with the Chaintech since the price was right. The Galaxy was very tempting but it has a big fan which is notorious for being loud on some systems(the HP slims in particular, but quieter on the Dell hmm). On your HP the chaintech is quiet so it should be near silent on the Dell but I'm crossing my fingers. I hope it's good enough to play C&C3 and HL2: Insurgency.
 
Ok guys, I think I made some progress on my anti-heat slimline jihad.

Again, I realize that the ~40C I was seeing under normal load was not really a cause for concern, but it just seemed to me that the airflow in these slimlines are very inefficient. So I went looking for a laptop cooling pad I had seen online which seemed to be a good size to slip under the slimline to force air into the box. Instead, I came across a different laptop cooling pad that appeared to be a good size for pulling air out of the rear of the slimline. Being a technical dolt, the USB power source made it that much more convincing (i.e., no wire splicing or case modifications needed).

Here's what the jury rigged fans look like (I can still use those ports, by the way) ...

breathe1ea0.jpg


The fans are only secured by 2 screws each (circled in red) but that would appear to be enough ...

breathe2qi2.jpg


The long notch along the cover fits the fans practically perfectly ...

breathe3iy9.jpg


Not sure if I'm entirely feelin the funky neon glow action though ...

breathe4is5.jpg


But it's not too distracting the way my desktop is laid out ...

breathe5wc5.jpg


Lastly, I took out the pocket bay and held back the door flap with a paperclip (can't notice it at all) ... I'm hoping that will provide a good air intake.

So I've been noodling around for about half an hour now using Fireworks to edit images and temps have been hovering around 25 C :D

[edit - couple hours later]

Just finished blowing ships and planets up on Sins of a Solar Empire every possible setting set to max and temp was at 30 C when I closed the game. :D
 
the.ronin said:
Ok so the temps are back up ... around 38-40 C on the CPU under normal load. I know this isn't something to really worry about - I understand sustained 60 C or greater is considered dangerous. What sort of temps are you guys seeing?

I really wish there was some sort of cooling solution that took advantage of that media bay. I was looking at the Thermaltake external USB fan but can't find a spot on the case that would make sense, much less accommodate it.
Click to expand...


Lucky, mines are 47-51.
 
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