The GPU Sadness Index: aka the Shadenfreude Pricing Index

DukenukemX said:
Fun fact, did you know that 40% of American dollars was created in the last 12 months? Fun with funny money. And we criticize crypto for being fake money. Anyway, in many ways crypto gains its value from real currencies, much like a credit card. Credit cards aren't real money and we accept those as payment all the time, including the government. For most people you can't use Bitcoin unless you convert it back to your countries local currency.
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Yes I followed M0-M1-M2 level of many country since the days of the pandemy. About the same in Canada.

The ability for a national country to play with is money supply that would be loss with a crypto like bitcoin is one of the reason it get criticized a lot (or the Euro for some country in it), compare the 1929 crisis when fear made people turning their USD into gold back, removing 30% of the money from circulation and turned a stock market panic into an actual depression versus how robust modern money are in comparison. It is the big plus for a country to have is own currency, not a default. How smooth it went to print money to redistribute wealth to the people without income, instead of rising new taxes to do so.

Payment via a promise to pay it at some point versus instant payment seem to be a different subject, accepting a payment in credit card become "real money" in 24-48 hours usually.

DukenukemX said:
We know today that Amazon and Netflix are successful companies but nobody knew that back in 2002. Then you have companies like Enron that didn't produce anything other than hype about their company. There are a lot of companies that operate on zero profits.
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And ? Maybe Tesla will be one or the other, I am not sure I follow the point, in a growth phase company operate at a whole at a lost or you want them to.
 
ZeqOBpf6 said:
Floppy disks. There was no such thing as a good operating system. Something called irq. Two thousand dollars for a midrange PC. Viruses were a legitimate threat.
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Fuck IRQ conflicts.
Err Um so what you are saying is that nothing has really changed except maybe our knees were in better shape?
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Can't wait for the crypto-bubble to burst when people finally wisen up to the fact that they have no intrinsic value at all, may no one will ever use them as currency, and it's all just a stupid speculative bubble.

Unfortunately the douchebags responsible for cornering the GPU market will likely have sold off by then leaving non-savvy (and probably elderly) investors who get in out of FOMO to take the fall.

It's just sad all around.
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Crypto is not going away,the (Not at all) Federal Reserve has embraced it as have the WEF and Bilderburger, and Bill Gates who owns dozens of Patents in conjunction with DARPA(Crypto that is carried inside the human body and can be mined by the human body,I kid you not.. Check out a utuber called CryptoViewing if your really curious. Bill Gates had 32 Intl Patents as of Dec 2020 that DARPA helped develop,are creepy AF ,and very real. WEF wants everyone to be carrying their currency inside their bodies by 2030 at the latest. #Agenda2030

Its amazing how many know nothing about any of this,and the Great Reset.
 
J Macker said:
Spoken like a true stalwart who missed the boat!
I'm on track to retire 15 years early even if BTC/ETH just stagnate where they are.
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Ditto. I got in fairly early myself and got lucky. We as a society are not going back to the old world of 2019,travel will continue to be extremely limited and for the wealthy only,and physical cash is going to be dead very soon,the entire world has already been heavily conditioned for all that already ,and dont realize it (Lockdowns/Social Distancing/Vaccine Passports/Mandatory Vaccine/Social Credit Scores insanity, are not going away but will be expanded and be like rolling blackouts, but be worldwide) Most people will be on UBI within a few years. Watch the 2nd vid in my sig from ComputingForever and find out about Agenda2030 from the UN and WEF and W.H.O. these people are deadly serious about restructuring the entire world.
 
It turns out that NVIDIA’s board partners are avoiding and in some cases, even limiting the sales of the RTX 3060 Ti due to the low profit margins that come with the advanced PCB design of the Ampere lineup. This info was shared by @harukaze5719, a reputed Korean source on Twitter. AIB partners are instead focusing more on the RTX 3070 which is supposedly more profitable.


포시포시 @harukaze5719

[Proof, reliability and actual source is unclear]

1/2 AIB vendor doesn't produce 3060Ti well but 3070 for maximize profit in this chip shortage situation > NVIDIA did warn. Some says rumors from Feb that Nvidia will not supply GA102 GPUs are actually due to this reason

2/2 Chinese mining vendors are buying directly from factory at twice the supply price. BTC board(mining board) production is not possible. Currently, 6/7th Gen H/B chipsets are out of stock. Also, mining PSUs are almost out of stock.
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https://twitter.com/harukaze5719/status/1365871339924463616?s=20
 
Krenum said:
Some numbskull will probably buy it.
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There really isn't any choice but to buy it right now. We haven't been able to buy a new video card in almost 6 months now! It's gotten so bad that even the entry level cards are out of stock. If you need a video card right now you have no choice but to pay the ridiculous price they're asking.

For those of us with decent older cards like my 2070, we're still ok but for anyone who's GPU died or is looking to get into PC gaming by building a new rig is just out of luck.

I honestly don't know what this means in the future. Does this end PC gaming? I mean if you can't build a rig without paying some maggot scalper 4x the original price, why would you get into PC's?

And with retailers doing absolutely nothing to stop these maggot scalpers then when does it end? I mean all Best Buy and other B&M stores have to do is make GPU's available for in-store purchase only and a 1 per customer limit and that would fix a lot of this. They'd still sell out but not within second and at least it would be to legitimate customers buying them.
 
Marees said:
It turns out that NVIDIA’s board partners are avoiding and in some cases, even limiting the sales of the RTX 3060 Ti due to the low profit margins that come with the advanced PCB design of the Ampere lineup. This info was shared by @harukaze5719, a reputed Korean source on Twitter. AIB partners are instead focusing more on the RTX 3070 which is supposedly more profitable.


포시포시 @harukaze5719



https://twitter.com/harukaze5719/status/1365871339924463616?s=20
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Meanwhile the RTX 3060 is a joke. It costs $329, before scalpers and it performs the same as a RTX 2060 Super. The RTX 3060 Ti performs like a RTX 2080 Super. Why such a massive difference in performance? Right now any graphics card produced is swiftly bought up because lots of people have more free time due to either working from home or not working at all. So it would make sense to produce the RTX 3070 over the RTX 3060 Ti, but this is digging a hole for Nvidia. Right now Nvidia is seeing more money than ever, but at some point the plebs need graphic cards too. There is still nothing for the sub $300 market which is dominated but GTX graphic cards. Won't do Nvidia any good if developers won't make games beyond a GTX 1060. It's not like the GTX 1060 is the only top used card for gaming. The 1050 Ti is #2, followed by the 1650, 1050, RTX 2060, 1070, 1660Ti and etc.

If AIB partners don't want to make cards then Nvidia should step in and make those RTX 3060's. Screw the middle man AIB partners.
 
DukenukemX said:
Screw the middle man AIB partners.
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download (1).jpeg
 
Last year, a lot of semiconductor companies promised they’d be exiting the current supply crunch by the end of Q1 2021. In January, we started hearing companies say they thought the shortages could last until the end of Q2.

Now, analysts are predicting they could actually persist for the next year.

MarketWatch quotes Stifel analyst Matthew Sheerin, an analyst specializing in the technical supply chain, as saying,

“We don’t see any major correction on the horizon, given ongoing supply constraints as well as continued optimism about improving demand in 2nd Half of 2021…
We remain more concerned with continued supply disruptions, and increased materials costs, than we do an imminent multi-quarter inventory correction.”
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https://www.extremetech.com/computi...ply-by-30-percent-shortages-could-last-a-year
 
Furious Nerd said:
View attachment 334119
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I still have my 3DFX 3500 TV and love it. 3DFX had the right idea but was extremely behind in tech. Realistically selling to AIB is costing us consumers more money. Also fuck MicroCenter and their price gouging. You people who support them are getting what you deserve. I also have no faith in AMD doing a better job in pricing and supply. Enjoy your GTX 1060 overlords as they will be directing developers in how games are made.
 
MacLeod said:
And with retailers doing absolutely nothing to stop these maggot scalpers then when does it end?
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i have a question.

if the retailers themselves (thinking Newegg here, but there are others) are selling the cards for inflated prices, and people are still paying those inflated prices, does that make the retailers the scalpers?

what about forced bundles?

And for the retailers that haven’t started inflating their prices yet, what about the ever-increasing MSRP on parts? High end GPUs with suggested prices of over $1000? Does that seem reasonable?

I don’t think the problem is just “scalpers” here.
 
deruberhanyok said:
i have a question.

if the retailers themselves (thinking Newegg here, but there are others) are selling the cards for inflated prices, and people are still paying those inflated prices, does that make the retailers the scalpers?

what about forced bundles?

And for the retailers that haven’t started inflating their prices yet, what about the ever-increasing MSRP on parts? High end GPUs with suggested prices of over $1000? Does that seem reasonable?

I don’t think the problem is just “scalpers” here.
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I don't think the retailers are selling above MSRP. There are some listings like on Newegg at gouge rates but those are 3rd party sellers. Everything listed as sold by Newegg is MSRP last time I looked but I could be wrong.

I think "scalpers" are not that hard to define. Anybody that uses bots to clear out stock in a matter of seconds then list those items on ebay at 200% or even 300% markup would be a POS scalper and should burn in hell.

Of course retailers that refuse to limit their GPU's to in-store purchases only are a big part of the problem as well.
 
Marees said:
It turns out that NVIDIA’s board partners are avoiding and in some cases, even limiting the sales of the RTX 3060 Ti due to the low profit margins that come with the advanced PCB design of the Ampere lineup. This info was shared by @harukaze5719, a reputed Korean source on Twitter. AIB partners are instead focusing more on the RTX 3070 which is supposedly more profitable.

포시포시 @harukaze5719



https://twitter.com/harukaze5719/status/1365871339924463616?s=20
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That's because it's basically the same card with a few less shader units costing $100 less. I'd think they'd want to use every single good GA104 die to make the extra $100 and then only use the bad ones for the 3060 Tis.
 
MacLeod said:
There really isn't any choice but to buy it right now. We haven't been able to buy a new video card in almost 6 months now! It's gotten so bad that even the entry level cards are out of stock. If you need a video card right now you have no choice but to pay the ridiculous price they're asking.

For those of us with decent older cards like my 2070, we're still ok but for anyone who's GPU died or is looking to get into PC gaming by building a new rig is just out of luck.

I honestly don't know what this means in the future. Does this end PC gaming? I mean if you can't build a rig without paying some maggot scalper 4x the original price, why would you get into PC's?

And with retailers doing absolutely nothing to stop these maggot scalpers then when does it end? I mean all Best Buy and other B&M stores have to do is make GPU's available for in-store purchase only and a 1 per customer limit and that would fix a lot of this. They'd still sell out but not within second and at least it would be to legitimate customers buying them.
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Huh wha? No choice? People have choice and currently prices reflect those choices. Will this end PC gaming? I've been thinking about that too. Its certainly going to put it back in the niche it was in the mid 90's. Where only "rich" can afford a nice system. A sad state of affairs for the platform.
 
Krenum said:
Huh wha? No choice? People have choice and currently prices reflect those choices. Will this end PC gaming? I've been thinking about that too. Its certainly going to put it back in the niche it was in the mid 90's. Where only "rich" can afford a nice system. A sad state of affairs for the platform.
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Maybe that's a good thing. IMO most games now aren't.... very good, and it's because devs go for mass appeal and all the negatives that come with it.

I don't think it's going to make an impact, everything will rebound in a couple years time. Might dissuade new studios from opening in the short term.

But it is weird to know that basically there is no entry for new PC gamers -- hasn't been for a while and will not be any entry for a while longer. It's almost like going back to being a "hardcore" hobby ;)
 
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Agreed. I've had a couple people at work ask me about building a gaming PC for them so thru can start playing COD and some others. Sucks to tell them that they'll need around $1500 just for a video card that should cost $300.
 
deruberhanyok said:
i have a question.

if the retailers themselves (thinking Newegg here, but there are others) are selling the cards for inflated prices, and people are still paying those inflated prices, does that make the retailers the scalpers?

what about forced bundles?

And for the retailers that haven’t started inflating their prices yet, what about the ever-increasing MSRP on parts? High end GPUs with suggested prices of over $1000? Does that seem reasonable?

I don’t think the problem is just “scalpers” here.
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Thank you, that's what I've been saying. Retailers have been price gouging before the scalpers.
Krenum said:
Huh wha? No choice? People have choice and currently prices reflect those choices. Will this end PC gaming? I've been thinking about that too. Its certainly going to put it back in the niche it was in the mid 90's. Where only "rich" can afford a nice system. A sad state of affairs for the platform.
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Nah, if anything PC gaming is stronger. Not like you can find a PS5 for $500. PS4's are now $500 on Amazon. If anything the entire industry may experience stagnation in games as people will continue to use hardware from 2016. If anything happens to my Vega 56 I'll probably switch to my RX 480 and it won't make that much of a difference. Anyone looking into PC gaming should focus on RX 480/580's or GTX 970/1060's. You really don't need anything more powerful unless you plan to run games at 1440p max settings with Ray-Tracing.
 
HeadRusch said:
If you are paying your bills monthly via bill-pay services, you're leaving money on the table. Pay all your bills online directly via a credit card and then pay off the credit card via your bank/credit union/magic money machine. Watch the cash-back flow........
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This can definitely be worth it. Been wanting to move into a card that has good rates for just this sort of thing. Not in love with opening a new tab if credit though. I paid all that shit off just before Covid hit.
 
MacLeod said:
Does this end PC gaming? I mean if you can't build a rig without paying some maggot scalper 4x the original price, why would you get into PC's?
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I guess it is an important proportion now, but does most people getting into their PC do it via a custom build, or simply going to the Dells and Hp of the world:
https://deals.dell.com/en-us/category/gamingpcs

Adn get for example a 10700F, 3060TI mid level machine:
https://deals.dell.com/en-us/productdetail/7mkh


Krenum said:
Its certainly going to put it back in the niche it was in the mid 90's. Where only "rich" can afford a nice system. A sad state of affairs for the platform.
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Has for getting back to mids 90s:
https://gamespot1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/1583/15839082/3768959-5164173097-gamin.jpg

it was bigger revenues wise than console around 1995, it got so big that it would need quite the turn around to get to be niche (and the second it would stop to be popular access and price would become right away back to the normal I would imagine)
 
DukenukemX said:
I still have my 3DFX 3500 TV and love it. 3DFX had the right idea but was extremely behind in tech. Realistically selling to AIB is costing us consumers more money. Also fuck MicroCenter and their price gouging. You people who support them are getting what you deserve. I also have no faith in AMD doing a better job in pricing and supply. Enjoy your GTX 1060 overlords as they will be directing developers in how games are made.
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Something something dark cyberpunk future. :borg:
The irony in this is that in Cyberpunk Red, set around 2045, has nothing but infinite supply chain issues.

From what Mike Pondsmith was saying, megacorps aren't exactly producing products for consumers at this point in time, only for other megacorps, governments, special entities and projects, etc., and consumers get the leftovers at most.
In that time period, since the average person is completely unable get their hands on virtually anything new, products either need to be innovated by themselves, stolen, or discovered and resold or traded.

In his example, a new smartphone wouldn't be being released, and instead, a smartphone shipment of model XYZ produced from years earlier might just be discovered en masse within an old crate discovered by scrapers.
At that point, they can then be given/sold/dispersed to friends, allies, or the highest bidder.

The current situation with GPUs has turned into damn near the same thing, only instead of being 2045 it is only 2021.
Heck, there was an article from December 29, 2020 about a half-million RTX 30 GPUs being discovered from a lost shipment - you can't make this stuff up.


I know I post a lot of "dark cyberpunk future" jokes and memes on here, but the similarities to that Cyberpunk Red setting, and our own, are becoming eerily similar... :whistle:
 
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LukeTbk said:
Has for getting back to mids 90s:
https://gamespot1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/1583/15839082/3768959-5164173097-gamin.jpg

it was bigger revenues wise than console around 1995, it got so big that it would need quite the turn around to get to be niche (and the second it would stop to be popular access and price would become right away back to the normal I would imagine)
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How many people did you know with "Gaming" computers (Played Tie Fighter, Wolfenstien & Doom) vs people you knew with a game console or just went to the arcade at that time?
 
Krenum said:
How many people did you know with "Gaming" computers (Played Tie Fighter, Wolfenstien & Doom) vs people you knew with a game console?
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If I did know people that had computers capable of 'modern' gaming in the 90s with those level of games, their parents were probably much more well off, or they or had to scrimp and save every penny for such a setup with most having 80386 desktops or 80486 desktops in the Pentium 1 era.
$2000+ desktop vs $200 console - for the average kid or teenager only looking to play games, the console was probably the better choise.

For those of us who were like Urkel or Screech, no amount of work would stop us from having our desktops/workstations/servers/minis/mainframes! :D
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Can't wait for the crypto-bubble to burst when people finally wisen up to the fact that they have no intrinsic value at all, may no one will ever use them as currency, and it's all just a stupid speculative bubble.

Unfortunately the douchebags responsible for cornering the GPU market will likely have sold off by then leaving non-savvy (and probably elderly) investors who get in out of FOMO to take the fall.

It's just sad all around.
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Actually, I would argue that BTC/ETH have much more value than things like the dollar. BTC will be a limited supply currency/commodity and the dollar will continue to be devalued by unlimited printing. ETH will be used in smart contracts and guarantee data and the transfer of information. As much as it makes people throw a fit, cryptocurrency is the future, whether you like it or not. The GPU craze will end at some point and supply will even out, it's how markets work.
 
Krenum said:
How many people did you know with "Gaming" computers (Played Tie Fighter, Wolfenstien & Doom) vs people you knew with a game console or just went to the arcade at that time?
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It will be unrepresentative because I was young living in a very rural place, so I imagine it was overrepresented around my entourage, but I knew much more people with a gaming computer (1995 you were getting closer to Duke Nukem 3D and Quake than Wolf) than people going to the arcade and about similar for game console (about everyone with a computer had a nintendo as well, so that would be pushing it has more of them, but if we say super nes or recent console, about the same), it was ultra common among people I knew by 1995, scale of difference with something niche like Equitation.

And gaming in quote is a bit something that will appear post 1995, it took a while for a 3d card to be a must to play game, every pc where gaming PC in 1995 and every house with a PC if it had someone interested in gaming in it, where used has gaming pc, a strong distinction come a bit later when laptop become more popular and GPU became almost a necessity to play games.

I would simply use data instead of trying to rely on personal experience for something like that (or anything).
 
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Red Falcon said:
If I did know people that had computers capable of 'modern' gaming in the 90s with those level of games, their parents were probably much more well off, or they or had to scrimp and save every penny for such a setup with most having 80386 desktops or 80486 desktops in the Pentium 1 era.
$2000+ desktop vs $200 console - for the average kid or teenager only looking to play games, the console was probably the better choise.

For those of us who were like Urkel or Screech, no amount of work would stop us from having our desktops/workstations/servers/minis/mainframes! :D
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You really can't compare gaming in the 90's to today when it comes to PC. Also PC gaming was in a league of it's own until the Xbox 360 and PS3 were released. Firstly the average person couldn't afford a gaming PC until near the late 90's. You did need $2000 for a PC as in office PC, as gaming wasn't a focus until the early 2000's. If you had a PC in that era then you were building AMD K5's or K6's. You can still buy a sub $1000 PC today and enjoy every game, just not with max settings, 1440p, and with Ray-Tracing. Secondly, PC gaming in that time period enjoyed a lot of games that you couldn't play on console like Half Life, Thief, Solder of Fortune, and American McGee's Alice. Unlike today where PC gaming has very little if any exclusives. If you had a PC in the late 90's that could play games then you had access to games that console users had to wait for the 360 and PS3.

Finally there's the rate of how quickly technology evolved in the 90's vs today. If you had a Intel Pentium 100Mhz with a 3DFX Voodoo graphics card then you needed to upgrade. You needed to upgrade to play Half Life 2 and Doom 3 in 2004. In the period of 10 years you would have gone from DX5, DX6, DX7, DX8, and finally DX9. Today if you have a PC from 10 years ago there's a good chance you can still play modern games on it, assuming it's a game that doesn't require DX12. We've had DX11 since 2009, and the only new addition to API's is DX12 which doesn't add any new features in games, just better performance.

The PS5 isn't all that powerful, as it regularly performs like a GTX 1070 Ti at best. So if you have a graphics card that performs like a GTX 1070 Ti then you don't need to sell a kidney to play games. The Xbox Series S is far weaker and developers have to support it. Which means developers will have to have games that can go as low as a RX 580 or GTX 1060 to support the Xbox Series S. If you have... ahem... a GTX 780 Ti, GTX 970, GTX 980, GTX 1060, GTX 1050 Ti, R9 290, R9 390, RX 480/470, RX 580/570, GTX 1660/1650, RX 5550 then you can still play games at 1080p at medium settings just fine. Let idiots overpay for graphic cards while you wait for prices to be sane. You couldn't do that in the 90's.
 
next-Jin said:
So this means I should sell my 2080 Ti I don’t use?
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Probably. A RTX 2080 Ti are selling for around $1k on Ebay. If you aren't sentimentally attached to it then I'd sell it and then buy a RX 480 until this whole thing blows over. Sell the RX 480 and then buy the RTX 3070 or 3080. If you wait longer then maybe a 4070 or 4080, because it's not like Nvidia is standing still.
 
Is anyone actually using crypto as a currency or are most people trading it in the hopes that it goes up so they can cash it in for USD?
 
Manny Calavera said:
Ditto. I got in fairly early myself and got lucky. We as a society are not going back to the old world of 2019,travel will continue to be extremely limited and for the wealthy only,and physical cash is going to be dead very soon,the entire world has already been heavily conditioned for all that already ,and dont realize it (Lockdowns/Social Distancing/Vaccine Passports/Mandatory Vaccine/Social Credit Scores insanity, are not going away but will be expanded and be like rolling blackouts, but be worldwide) Most people will be on UBI within a few years. Watch the 2nd vid in my sig from ComputingForever and find out about Agenda2030 from the UN and WEF and W.H.O. these people are deadly serious about restructuring the entire world.
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/savedBYbitcoin
 
deruberhanyok said:
i have a question.

if the retailers themselves (thinking Newegg here, but there are others) are selling the cards for inflated prices, and people are still paying those inflated prices, does that make the retailers the scalpers?

what about forced bundles?

And for the retailers that haven’t started inflating their prices yet, what about the ever-increasing MSRP on parts? High end GPUs with suggested prices of over $1000? Does that seem reasonable?

I don’t think the problem is just “scalpers” here.
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Newegg overpricing is 3rd party sellers. If you sort by only newegg sold, you'll see MSRP (with the new tariffs attached).
 
TheToE! said:
Is anyone actually using crypto as a currency or are most people trading it in the hopes that it goes up so they can cash it in for USD?
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That argument is forever dead. It never will be a currency, because it was never needed to be a currency. What it is, is a limited supply DEBT-FREE asset that is out of the control of centralized government, and extremely easy to transfer and hold.

I use crypto for the following:

1. To store assets on my hardware wallet not directly tied to my SSN, thus being safe from ID theft
2. Earn anywhere from 3-20% interest on lending USDC via DeFi platforms, again via my hardware wallet
3. Store of value (BTC, digital gold)
4. Asset diversification (BTC, ETH - these two are worth over $1T I'm sorry but speculation isn't worth over $1T: these are legitimatized assets)
5. Speculation (Gen 3.0 cryptos)

In other crypto news, from someone who follows it:

Tezos (XTZ, a lesser known Gen 3.0 crypto) just released a pseudo-stablecoin (kUSD) that allows you to interest on your collateral as well as what you borrow (for a small risk in the XTZ price fluctuations). And because the borrowing rate is lower than the XTZ staking rate, you end up actually making money assuming the price of XTZ at the very minimum - the same price of when you borrowed. So there's another asset I will be adding to my #5 portfolio within the next month as that DeFi market builds liquidity, because no where else in the world do I know of any such setup that actually pays for borrowing. Now sure XTZ could just crash to $0 and make this whole thing moot, but that's very highly unlikely, but also some of the risk you need to take for the big gains.

There's still plenty of opportunity in this space: the stuff that gets invented is mind-blowing. Disruptive is an understatement. Once you start to realize all of this is working without any middleman... there's no going back to your previous mindset on what you believe money is and/or should be.

So again if you're going to sit on the outside and expect Reddit or [H] or whoever to convince you, instead of just spending some time using and seeing what is possible in this space (even just take 0.1-1% of your net-worth and put it into USDC and start playing around with what's in the crypto world): you have no idea to blame but yourself for missing out on the greatest wealth transfer to occur, and that will probably ever occur in human history. Which is now being accelerated by all the printing, devaluation of the dollar, etc.

That's all I can suggest at this point: trade some USD for USDC and instead of focusing on moon, first seeing what you can do it with and where you can go with that USDC. After spending a good of amount of time doing that becoming somewhat familiar with the crypto ecosystem, then maybe focus on moon as your hands will be a lot stronger after you've got knowledge of what's actually going on.
 
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DukenukemX said:
Uh, no currency has any intrinsic value. That's why they're a fiat currency that's backed by nothing. Bitcoin has the same legitimacy as buying stock, and works the same.
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Stocks are an investment into a company's ability to make a product or provide a service. What service is crypto providing? It only uses resources but does not actually produce anything. Crypto is the biggest insanity humanity has forayed into to date. And I hope the day doesn't come when I can tell you "I told you so". For everyone's sake.
 
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