The GPU Sadness Index: aka the Shadenfreude Pricing Index

blade52x said:
That argument is forever dead. It never will be a currency, because it was never needed to be a currency. What it is, is a limited supply DEBT-FREE asset that is out of the control of centralized government, and extremely easy to transfer and hold.

I use crypto for the following:

1. To store assets on my hardware wallet not directly tied to my SSN, thus being safe from ID theft
2. Earn anywhere from 3-20% interest on lending USDC via DeFi platforms, again via my hardware wallet
3. Store of value (BTC, digital gold)
4. Asset diversification (BTC, ETH - these two are worth over $1T I'm sorry but speculation isn't worth over $1T: these are legitimatized assets)
5. Speculation (Gen 3.0 cryptos)

In other crypto news, from someone who follows it:

Tezos (XTZ, a lesser known Gen 3.0 crypto) just released a pseudo-stablecoin (kUSD) that allows you to interest on your collateral as well as what you borrow (for a small risk in the XTZ price fluctuations). And because the borrowing rate is lower than the XTZ staking rate, you end up actually making money assuming the price of XTZ at the very minimum - the same price of when you borrowed. So there's another asset I will be adding to my #5 portfolio within the next month as that DeFi market builds liquidity, because no where else in the world do I know of any such setup that actually pays for borrowing. Now sure XTZ could just crash to $0 and make this whole thing moot, but that's very highly unlikely, but also some of the risk you need to take for the big gains.

There's still plenty of opportunity in this space: the stuff that gets invented is mind-blowing. Disruptive is an understatement. Once you start to realize all of this is working without any middleman... there's no going back to your previous mindset on what you believe money is and/or should be.

So again if you're going to sit on the outside and expect Reddit or [H] or whoever to convince you, instead of just spending some time using and seeing what is possible in this space (even just take 0.1-1% of your net-worth and put it into USDC and start playing around with what's in the crypto world): you have no idea to blame but yourself for missing out on the greatest wealth transfer to occur, and that will probably ever occur in human history. Which is now being accelerated by all the printing, devaluation of the dollar, etc.

That's all I can suggest at this point: trade some USD for USDC and instead of focusing on moon, first seeing what you can do it with and where you can go with that USDC. After spending a good of amount of time doing that becoming somewhat familiar with the crypto ecosystem, then maybe focus on moon as your hands will be a lot stronger after you've got knowledge of what's actually going on.
Click to expand...

This dude knows what he is talking about. I am half way there. I have whatever BtC chump change and eth and LtC on Blockfi and I am starting to but USDC or GuSD there as well Earning 8.4% interest. Lot of people use them now and some people be scared lol but after watching videos of zac prince the dude is legit and talks about how they run business and how they don’t just give shit away and base it on their risk assement model. Basically lot of collateral requirement for the loans they give out and the LtV they require.

I should have had my shit there since last March would have made a few grand already back in crypto and usdc lol.
 
Just remember there's always the risk of a bug or a hack, so just don't go borrowing or lending out your entire life savings on DeFi given that it's still relatively new. DeFi is as secure as the code, and will still need years of testing and scaling before it's truly real-world ready. The same goes for any new crypto developments.
 
^ Could not agree more. I do not know why everyone is so black and white about crypto - it's not going to replace the dollar or any other currency today. Make crypto part of your diverse investment portfolio! It's like people that are pissed about wind farms, electric cars, solar...no one wants oil and other energy sources gone tomorrow. It's to diversify and improve with technology. That's crypto in the monetary space.
 
blade52x said:
That argument is forever dead. It never will be a currency,
Click to expand...
Aren't some crypto made with the possibility of being used as one in mind ? (unlike say bitcoin that outside some technological change absolutely cannot become a popular one, i think it would require twice the electricity currently made on earth dedicated to it for it to be)
 
lopoetve said:
Newegg overpricing is 3rd party sellers. If you sort by only newegg sold, you'll see MSRP (with the new tariffs attached).
Click to expand...

That's interesting. So it's okay for newegg to sell these at $400:

https://www.newegg.com/evga-geforce-rtx-3060-12g-p5-3657-kr/p/N82E16814487539?Item=N82E16814487539

or $500:

https://www.newegg.com/zotac-geforce-rtx-3060-zt-a30600h-10m/p/N82E16814500508?Item=N82E16814500508

https://www.newegg.com/asus-geforce...gaming/p/N82E16814126491?Item=N82E16814126491

because "tariffs"?
 
deruberhanyok said:
That's interesting. So it's okay for newegg to sell these at $400:

https://www.newegg.com/evga-geforce-rtx-3060-12g-p5-3657-kr/p/N82E16814487539?Item=N82E16814487539

or $500:

https://www.newegg.com/zotac-geforce-rtx-3060-zt-a30600h-10m/p/N82E16814500508?Item=N82E16814500508

https://www.newegg.com/asus-geforce...gaming/p/N82E16814126491?Item=N82E16814126491

because "tariffs"?
Click to expand...
MSRP on the first is $389, vs Newegg at $399.

The TUF goes for about $20-30 less, depending on site - ASUS doesn't list MSRP, but I suspect that's pretty close - microcenter has it a touch cheaper, other places online are about the same. Don't know why Newegg is adding some cash there, but could also be on the back end - hard to say, but the other two are close or identical, so...

Zotac matches from several places I've seen - $499 wherever you are.

I'm not seeing what you're complaining about? The FE costs $329. It is manufactured in Taiwan. Asus and Zotac and other cards are generally manufactured in China, and aside from potentially having an AIB markup from different cooling/oc/etc, are subject to a 25% tariff now. If we assume that an AIB would normally have an MSRP of $375 pre-tariff, that's about $470 after. Not far off. For some of those, they're the nicest version available - and carry extra cost.

Just because Nvidia listed the 3060 FE at $329 doesn't mean you can get any OTHER 3060 for the same price. Which, given the shortage of FE models, is annoying - but AIBs have often cost more in the past.

I don't disagree that cards are getting more expensive in general, but bitching about an AIB charging more for their product is different than bitching about distributors and resellers adding markups, because there isn't really any evidence of that in significant form yet. Just that things are more expensive and now we get to pay a tax on them for the hell of it too.
 
Regular currencies are backed by the need to pay taxes in them, and secured by dudes with guns.

Proof Of Work Blockchains are secured by continuous expenditure of energy equal to twice the value of the blockchain. If the market cap of the blockchain doubles, energy expenditure quadruples. This is the unavoidable 51% problem. The cost of hijacking the blockchain must remain higher than the value of the blockchain, or it will get hijacked.

The more crypto goes up, the more video cards have to be running at full tilt to keep it secure but exponentially.

However just because its stupid and unsustainable doesn't mean we won't burn half the planet trying to sustain it. We're fucking idiots as a collective.
 
lopoetve said:
I don't disagree that cards are getting more expensive in general, but bitching about an AIB charging more for their product is different than bitching about distributors and resellers adding markups, because there isn't really any evidence of that in significant form yet. Just that things are more expensive and now we get to pay a tax on them for the hell of it too.
Click to expand...

I’m really just trying to figure out where the new line is for what is considered an “okay” high price vs a “scalpers” high price.

everyone keeps changing their mind about what’s acceptable and what isn’t, seemingly just to make themselves feel better about spending, say, $500 on a midrange card.

Got it in the shuffle so it must be okay, but damn those scalpers, eh?
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Lol. I haven't carried cash since the 90's. Once I got my first credit card that's all I used for transactions, paying the bill off (usually in full at the end of the month) directly from my bank account electronically.

It's funny. I grew up in Sweden and traveled there in 2019. Cash almost wasn't a thing anymore. It existed, but only tourists and old people were using it. Lots of businesses (shops, bars, restaurants, etc.) have signs that say "sorry no cash accepted". I remember thinking it was hilarious when we were in a bar, and this girl walked in, and sheepishly asked th ebartender, as if she were embarrased about it, "uh, do you... do you take cash?". Apparently she was given cash by a grandparent.
Click to expand...
So stunning and brave.
 
lopoetve said:
MSRP on the first is $389, vs Newegg at $399.

The TUF goes for about $20-30 less, depending on site - ASUS doesn't list MSRP, but I suspect that's pretty close - microcenter has it a touch cheaper, other places online are about the same. Don't know why Newegg is adding some cash there, but could also be on the back end - hard to say, but the other two are close or identical, so...

Zotac matches from several places I've seen - $499 wherever you are.

I'm not seeing what you're complaining about? The FE costs $329. It is manufactured in Taiwan. Asus and Zotac and other cards are generally manufactured in China, and aside from potentially having an AIB markup from different cooling/oc/etc, are subject to a 25% tariff now. If we assume that an AIB would normally have an MSRP of $375 pre-tariff, that's about $470 after. Not far off. For some of those, they're the nicest version available - and carry extra cost.

Just because Nvidia listed the 3060 FE at $329 doesn't mean you can get any OTHER 3060 for the same price. Which, given the shortage of FE models, is annoying - but AIBs have often cost more in the past.

I don't disagree that cards are getting more expensive in general, but bitching about an AIB charging more for their product is different than bitching about distributors and resellers adding markups, because there isn't really any evidence of that in significant form yet. Just that things are more expensive and now we get to pay a tax on them for the hell of it too.
Click to expand...

There is no FE 3060 AFAIK. At least I haven't seen it. That's just the stated "MSRP" of the "base model" card. Good luck finding one at that price though.

My personal favorite: Zotac 3060 Twin Gaming - $329...Zotac Twin Gaming OC - $499. I'm pretty confident Zotac is going to produce a lot more OC cards than non-OC cards and profit.
 
kirbyrj said:
There is no FE 3060 AFAIK. At least I haven't seen it. That's just the stated "MSRP" of the "base model" card. Good luck finding one at that price though.

My personal favorite: Zotac 3060 Twin Gaming - $329...Zotac Twin Gaming OC - $499. I'm pretty confident Zotac is going to produce a lot more OC cards than non-OC cards and profit.
Click to expand...
You're right, there isn't - I'm not in that market so I didn't notice. And huh. So a totally made up MSRP :p
 
So a factory overclock is worth a 50% price increase? That seems excessive. And going from just over $300 to over $500, not sure that is mid-range anymore.
 
cybereality said:
So a factory overclock is worth a 50% price increase? That seems excessive. And going from just over $300 to over $500, not sure that is mid-range anymore.
Click to expand...
That value is for you to decide; for some of them, yep. For others? Not a chance. Depends on the vendor and the card, at least to me.
 
You can find GTX 970 cards in ebay for just under $200. That's not a great deal by any stretch, but it does represent the best FPS/$ right now. And if you get lucky, you might even snag one for closer to $125. How long will a five or six-year-old graphics card last? That's certainly a big part of the risk, but in absolute performance even aging Maxwell still performs okay — it's actually slightly faster than Nvidia's GTX 1650, for example (not the 1650 Super or 1650 GDDR6, though).

AMD's RX 570 4GB ranks as the second-best GPU using the same metrics, with a median price of $225. And those cards are likely much newer — but possibly used for 24/7 mining, so don't count on getting a pristine GPU either way.


https://www.tomshardware.com/amp/news/geforce-gtx-970-back-from-the-dead?__twitter_impression=true
 
Verado said:
The problem is you are checking price in an ancient inflated currency.
Its only 0,01 BTC
Click to expand...
And how do you obtain that BTC? With an "ancient inflated currency",either you buy it outright, trade for it or buy the materials to acquire it, you're still having to lean on that damn "ancient inflated currency".

Or you can just buy something that has withstood the sands of time for all of civilization, like gold or silver, but you can't eat it so be careful.
 
Ugh, almost got a 3080 from the Zotac store -- got as far as having it in my cart, but the site would crash every time I was in the process of checking out, until it went out of stock. :C RIP
 
Marees said:
You can find GTX 970 cards in ebay for just under $200. That's not a great deal by any stretch, but it does represent the best FPS/$ right now.
Click to expand...

heh. I took a break from PC gaming in 2012 or so, and got back into it in early 2015. I ended up building a box with a GTX 970 in it because it was the best bang for the buck. (Of course, it was also a sub-$200 i5 and other inexpensive parts back then).


and here we are, 6 years later, legitimately saying that the same card is one of the best deals you can find. I find this both hilarious and sad.
 
Marees said:
You can find GTX 970 cards in ebay for just under $200. That's not a great deal by any stretch, but it does represent the best FPS/$ right now. And if you get lucky, you might even snag one for closer to $125. How long will a five or six-year-old graphics card last?
Click to expand...
Personally I haven't had many graphic cards fail on me. I've had a Geforce 6800 blow up on me because the power supply blew up. I've had a Radeon HD 6750 die on me but it could have been a bad motherboard that took it out. Otherwise everything I have works including the ATI Radeon 9500 that I bios flashed into a 9700 Pro. I also have a Radeon HD 7850 that I bought on Ebay knowing it was used for mining. One of the first things I do when buying a graphics card is replace the thermal paste. Don't care how new it is, I'm replacing the thermal paste. When I bought my RX 480 about 5 years ago the fans on that would spin to win and make a lot of noise. One day my water cooling loop was leaking onto the GPU and I took it apart to clean off the coolant and replaced the thermal paste. Now the RX 480 barely spins up the fans as the GPU runs much cooler.
That's certainly a big part of the risk, but in absolute performance even aging Maxwell still performs okay — it's actually slightly faster than Nvidia's GTX 1650, for example (not the 1650 Super or 1650 GDDR6, though).
Click to expand...
Nvidia is probably wondering why nobody buys their new GTX cards when they're comparable with stuff they made 7 years ago.
AMD's RX 570 4GB ranks as the second-best GPU using the same metrics, with a median price of $225. And those cards are likely much newer — but possibly used for 24/7 mining, so don't count on getting a pristine GPU either way.
Click to expand...
I also bought a RX 470 for my nephew a couple of years ago and that was also used for mining. He's not a normal kid either as he's destruction with his things. I replaced the SSD on his machine for an upgrade recently and the door to the case was falling off and the case was dented all over. The old mining RX 470 still works fine though.

You can get a cheap GPU that plays all games today without breaking the unemployment check. An R9 290 is hardly considered but is about the same performance if not better than the GTX 970 and I've found them for $150 on Ebay. Most of the cheaper cards are triple fan cards which don't normally fit average size cases, so keep that in mind. Which is odd considering that triple fan cards were once the most expensive cards to get. The R9 Fury would have been a hidden gem of a GPU, but apparently a lot of people remembered this GPU and there's nothing on Ebay. The few R9 Fury's that exist are for bid and the price of these cards can go past $300, which is not worth it. I have a triple fan Sapphire R9 Fury in my HTPC that runs 24/7 and that card I bought for $150 on Ebay before the pandemic started. Goes to show you how valuable GPU's are today and that PC gaming is having a resurgence. Consoles too but who's having a bigger resurgence, the PC or the console? Even an old PS4 is now worth $400.
 
As has been mentioned in another thread the best way to deal with this from a gaming point of view is to play your back catalog of older unfinished games. I'm sure most of us have one. I've got about a years worth of games that can easily run on my current hardware and I'm starting to play them enjoy them. I couldn't really care about gpu shortages now.
 
peppergomez said:
As has been mentioned in another thread the best way to deal with this from a gaming point of view is to play your back catalog of older unfinished games. I'm sure most of us have one. I've got about a years worth of games that can easily run on my current hardware and I'm starting to play them enjoy them. I couldn't really care about gpu shortages now.
Click to expand...
Yeah, there are so many games worth playing from a few years back. Great time to catch up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top