The Government Sells Your Personal Data

rpgman1 said:
Sounds like the US gov't does betray almost everyone and even lied to their own citizens about the NSA's illegal activities. Wouldn't surprise me if the US gov't really is broke and the debt ceiling was just a temporary distraction.
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U.S. is not broke (yet). That'll happen when hardly anyone can pay their taxes. But, because of the federal debt, the U.S. has negative net worth.
 
Quote:
the Twin Towers false flag terrorist attack debacle.
The WHAT?

Please explain what you mean by this?

Erm, is it not totally obvious when you look at the laws that have come from that "act"? I would be personally amazed if anyone with a brain can accept the things happening today are not happening because of that day. The western hemisphere is practically living under martial law now, or at the very, very least a government controlled microscope.
 
I guess if the American people can have their cake and eat it too, so does the American gov't.

Welcome to the real world -Morpheus
 
This does not surprise me at all, they are corrupt ...
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This isn't corruption like when they do shit for personal gain, it's different, it's when they do things they think are right but are in fact wrong. Look at the guy's statement.

“We are not looking to make money,” said Cole. “We charge to cover our costs.”
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It sounds reasonable enough if you forget that everything they spend money on is supposed to be budgeted and accounted for so people know that they aren't doing back door deals for corrupt personal reasons.

If they need to cover costs then they need to have those costs budgeted and a process exists to pay for this. The issue comes when they decide on their own without control or oversight to do this kind of stuff without people's knowledge. Some brainiac thinks he has a way to pay for these costs without having to raise taxes and they just do it but they don't tell anyone about the plan and what they want to do, they just do it.
 
The populace exists to serve the federal government, not the other way around. The phrase "public servant" is such a load of horseshit these days.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Can I sell the government's private data?
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You can't even give it to the actual government(the people) without becoming one of the most wanted men in the world, having to take refuge in foreign countries.

Because he's a traitor, or something, and the government is here to help.
 
Sounds like the US gov't does betray almost everyone and even lied to their own citizens about the NSA's illegal activities.
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It's not a lie, it's a secret.

Look guys, if I have Classified Information and someone asks about it and they do not have the required Security Clearance and the Need to Know then they will not get a truthful answer. If they had the clearance and the access then they wouldn't need to ask. If there is a reasonable belief they might disclose the information publicly they don't get the information.

Not every Senator, Representative, or whoever has an actual "Need to Know" and it doesn't matter who or how many think they do need to know.

It's Classified, It's classified because if it were common knowledge or if the wrong people learned the info it would jeopardize the source and could cause real damage to the country. So many of you think they don't want to talk about it because you think they are spying on you, as in "personally on you" and that is not the case.

Look, the "illegal collection" was not done by design or intent, it was inadvertent, a mistake made while conducting legal and authorized operations against real threats. They identified the errors on their own, they are trying to correct the process without losing the capability to leverage the strength of the programs. Oversight was in place and was functioning properly but the leaks are a real problem and have most likely destroyed a really expensive collection program that most likely was very effective.

The more pressure that is put on them to explain this stuff the more little bits they declassify and release. The problem is that the media(which is bought and payed for), and politicians themselves are all trying to figure out how to use it to get ahead themselves. Both sides frame the info in the worst light then try and hang it on the other guy's head like a stinky hat.

By not understanding this properly you make yourself exactly the kind ignorant stooge they want you to be. By consistently repeating things about the NSA or the Government "spying on us" you are doing exactly what they all want.

The game they are playing isn't the one you think it is. They already accept that they can't keep you quiet and happy, that you are always going to blame someone else for everything. For them, the game is "Stinky Potato", don't try to cool the thing off, just make sure the other guy get's left holding it.
 
Erm, is it not totally obvious when you look at the laws that have come from that "act"?.
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Name one, Name one LAW that was enacted where the authority for the law was granted by the Patriot Act.

I would be personally amazed if anyone with a brain can accept the things happening today are not happening because of that day.
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Well, destroying or damaging three very important symbols of American power and influence while killing a few thousand people can become a significant event. Ohhh, I'm sorry, that's what you meant wasn't it?

The western hemisphere is practically living under martial law now, or at the very, very least a government controlled microscope.
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Yea, perhaps leaning toward the microscope as a little more realistic. And the more you think about it, maybe that was just going to happen anyway with technology the way it is I am not sure it could happen any other way.
 
lcpiper said:
Name one, Name one LAW that was enacted where the authority for the law was granted by the Patriot Act.
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The NDAA (esp. 2012-2013) and Patriot Act work in tandem to grant authority to pass such laws. Sections 1033 and 1021-1022.
 
CacaSapo said:
“We are not looking to make money,” said Cole. “We charge to cover our costs.”

That's funny, I thought taxes paid for your equipment, salaries, running costs, etc. Golly, I guess I was wrong.
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What a load of bullshit. "We charge to cover our costs." And what happens with the information, after you sold it to someone? They expect us to believe that it ends there?
 
You guys want to know how to fix this? It's really not that hard but it will take a few years.

All you have to do is get involved at the local level and help strengthen your own State's ability to take responsibility for themselves, promote and support the 10th Amendment, and expecting the Federal Government to deal with everything. The Federal Government is just a little too big and trying to do a little too much and it's time to get that pendulum swinging back the other way for awhile.

Every time the Federal Government says they are going to meet and do something, say like the last Universal Background check thing, ask yourself "Is this what the Feds Should be doing or is this something my State can do for themselves?" If your State can do it then let your State do it if it's what the people in your state want. Colorado did, other states did too. Thing's will change one way or the other in small ways and large and life will go on. Now I live in Arizona and I don't want what Colorado or New York State to happen here in Arizona, but it's up to those other people to take care of themselves and if I don't like what they do I don't have to live there.

Maybe if people start looking in a little more they will do a better job of taking care of their own yard and stop screwing with other people's stuff. You never know, the attitude might catch on.
 
lcpiper said:
You guys want to know how to fix this? It's really not that hard but it will take a few years.

All you have to do is get involved at the local level and help strengthen your own State's ability to take responsibility for themselves, promote and support the 10th Amendment, and expecting the Federal Government to deal with everything. The Federal Government is just a little too big and trying to do a little too much and it's time to get that pendulum swinging back the other way for awhile.

Every time the Federal Government says they are going to meet and do something, say like the last Universal Background check thing, ask yourself "Is this what the Feds Should be doing or is this something my State can do for themselves?" If your State can do it then let your State do it if it's what the people in your state want. Colorado did, other states did too. Thing's will change one way or the other in small ways and large and life will go on. Now I live in Arizona and I don't want what Colorado or New York State to happen here in Arizona, but it's up to those other people to take care of themselves and if I don't like what they do I don't have to live there.

Maybe if people start looking in a little more they will do a better job of taking care of their own yard and stop screwing with other people's stuff. You never know, the attitude might catch on.
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The only problem with that is politicians get in the way. They are all susceptible to federal government bribes...err...porkbarrel spending...etc...
 
LeninGhola, I didn't ask for a listing of what someone thinks are controversial sections of the Act, I ask for one example of a Law that was passed where the Authority to pass said law is the Patriot Act.

The NDAA (esp. 2012-2013) and Patriot Act work in tandem to grant authority to pass such laws. Sections 1033 and 1021-1022.
Reply With Quote
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You do realize that there is a new version of the NDAA every year, that it is the document which authorizes/approves the DoD's budget requests for each Fiscal Year. Anything unusual is usually listed in the Authorization like if the Air Force requests 10 Billion to put a Burger king on the Moon cause it will be a closer and cheaper trip for Space Shuttle pilots then to make them fly back to Vandenberg, then it will be listed in the NDAA expense authorization Bill for that year.

Name a new Bill that was written and passed into Law where the Authority is attributed to the Patriot Act.
 
The only problem with that is politicians get in the way. They are all susceptible to federal government bribes...err...porkbarrel spending...etc...
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Of course, they are human, they are working with business or whoever to make things happen or not.

But it's easy to spot a good one like Jan Brewer, Governor of AZ. How often do you see a State Governor go toe to toe with the President? You may like her politics or you may not, but she's a fighter and she fights for our State instead of selling it out.
 
lcpiper said:
LeninGhola, I didn't ask for a listing of what someone thinks are controversial sections of the Act, I ask for one example of a Law that was passed where the Authority to pass said law is the Patriot Act.


You do realize that there is a new version of the NDAA every year, that it is the document which authorizes/approves the DoD's budget requests for each Fiscal Year. Anything unusual is usually listed in the Authorization like if the Air Force requests 10 Billion to put a Burger king on the Moon cause it will be a closer and cheaper trip for Space Shuttle pilots then to make them fly back to Vandenberg, then it will be listed in the NDAA expense authorization Bill for that year.

Name a new Bill that was written and passed into Law where the Authority is attributed to the Patriot Act.
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The Patriot Act mainly amended old laws to allow for more government leverage.

Yes, I know what the NDAA is. It also allows for policies and legislation to be reviewed and approved/rejected. The reason for the controversy is that some of the provisions are for indefinite imprisonment without trial for combatants and citizens alike(public law 107-40), and use of deadly force at home or abroad against US citizens without trial.
 
Public Law 107-40 was signed into Law September 18th 2011 exactly one week following the attack on our Country by Al-Queda.

The USA PATRIOT Act of 2001 was signed into law by President George W. Bush on October 26, 2001 over a month later.

It also allows for policies and legislation to be reviewed and approved/rejected.
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No it doesn't, it is in effect Policy, just like all Law is. It's just another Bill that was signed into Law, it did not Authorize new Laws to be created in some other special procedures not subject to the same constraints as the Patriot Act itself was conceived under.

You are going from saying that we have been passing Laws by citing the Patriot Act as the Authorization for the Law to saying that because of the Patriot Act there are a whole new set of procedures in place for passing Laws.

Now you do recall an American named John Walker Lindh who was captured in Afghanistan and was convicted in a United States federal court in February 2002. Lindh accepted a plea bargain; he pleaded guilty to two charges and was sentenced to 20 years in prison without parole.
The Charges included;

Conspiracy to murder US citizens or US nationals
Two counts of providing material support and resources to terrorist organizations
One count of supplying services to the Taliban
Conspiracy to contribute services to Al Qaeda
Contributing services to Al Qaeda
Conspiracy to supply services to the Taliban
Using and carrying firearms and destructive devices during crimes of violence

The highlighted charges are the ones he plead guilty too.

It was because of this incident that the Military went to Congress and and asked for this legislation because habeas corpus prevents the military from taking any action against someone like Lindh and they could see at least a few more of them in the future.

How is a Soldier from Iowa supposed to handle a violent military confrontation with a USA Citizen in a foreign country if he knows the guy is a Citizen?
How do we intend to bring in the FBI to capture a guy like Lindh on the battlefield?

There are issues here, but no one wants to talk about why they exist, they only want to talk about a perceived threat that something could be taken advantage of.

OK, So keep looking for the Law, let us know when you find it.
 
I didn't say the Patriot Act legally authorized a new form of passing law. It does, however, set legal precedent which influences the creation of new laws. Even a dyed in the wool statist knows this.

The question is, what can justify (legally or morally) a bill that allows the suspension of habeas corpus?

The ACLU has declared several parts of the Patriot Act as well as recent NDAA provisions to be illegal under US law.

Of course we don't want the government to have such a loophole that can be exploited. The whole idea of the constitution and bill of rights was to limit the power and scope of the federal government, not to limit freedoms of the individual.

Honestly, I don't really care what your opnion on the subject is, and I'm sad that people like you would defend actions like these. I'd rather have people of stout moral standing defend our country and our rights than weasels.
 
Isn't the ACLU just around to troll the US government anyhow? They sort of invite themselves to the party and say whatever to make lawyers, who we all know are evil Mayan robot bodies controlled by cats, seem friendly and nice so no one notices them harvesting people to send to Alpha Centauri so a new planet can be colonized by a whole civilization that has Stockholm Syndrome.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Isn't the ACLU just around to troll the US government anyhow? They sort of invite themselves to the party and say whatever to make lawyers, who we all know are evil Mayan robot bodies controlled by cats, seem friendly and nice so no one notices them harvesting people to send to Alpha Centauri so a new planet can be colonized by a whole civilization that has Stockholm Syndrome.
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Trolling the government is patriotic. So is feeling a strong bond with your captors.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Trolling the government is patriotic. So is feeling a strong bond with your captors.
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That must be why cats love it so much when you finally understand that they're the ones in charge of the home and you begin to do things that please kitty instead of thinking of yourself. Patriotic support ov teh fuzzeh kitteh!!! :D
 
Well, you are not going to answer the question are you and that's because the neither the Patriot Act nor any NDAA ever has provided the authority to pass a following law because it just doen't work that way.

And Laws do not form precedent, Court Decisions do.

The question is, what can justify (legally or morally) a bill that allows the suspension of habeas corpus?
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When US citizens travel to foreign lands, illegally enter war zones, and intentionally take up arms against US Soldiers, that's when habeas corpus goes right out the window and if you had ever once in your life been a serviceman you would understand why. What, our soldiers are supposed to stand up and take one for the team from a traitor?

I don't give fuck all what the ACLU has to say, they are certainly a bigger collection of hypocrites then the gang in the White House. You can see that just by looking at who they won't represent.

Honestly, I don't really care what your opnion on the subject is, and I'm sad that people like you would defend actions like these.
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This is fine, but when you say "defend actions like these", I wish you would be more specific as I do not defend the actions of what happened in this article. I think it's wrong even if it's just because it violates the process of taxation and appropriations. There is a right way for government at all levels to acquire revenue and a wrong way, this is certainly a wrong way.

As for what the government is doing, well as always it's doing alot, but those politicians require and deserve much more scrutiny then the members of our Intelligence Community who are for the most part just average people doing boring work that they just happen to not be able to talk much about.

You see me as representative of the problem, but I see you as ignorant of it. You think you know things cause someone leaks information that even he doesn't fully understand, then more people that don't know what they are reading get involved making claims that are blatantly false but impossible to refute because talking about it pretty much destroys it's effectiveness.

Ahh well, I guess I just have to try and ignore it. Not take it personal when people trash what I am proud of. Hell, it's a free country right.
 
It doesn't matter if the citizen is a combatant or not according to these laws. This allows the US government to excecute citizens who aren't even holding a firearm. That is out of control. Holding someone indefinitely without ever even bringing charges against them is out of control. Selling personal data to third parties without your consent is out of control.

The NDAA and Patriot Act don't need to grant authority to pass OTHER laws, as these laws are being passed regardless.

Yes, laws can and do form precedent. Why do you think we got prohibition?

Shameful, man.
 
lcpiper said:
Well, you are not going to answer the question are you and that's because the neither the Patriot Act nor any NDAA ever has provided the authority to pass a following law because it just doen't work that way.

And Laws do not form precedent, Court Decisions do.
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When US citizens travel to foreign lands, illegally enter war zones, and intentionally take up arms against US Soldiers, that's when habeas corpus goes right out the window and
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The US military *IS* the aggressor. Try to get that through your head. You invade foreign countries for no justifiable reason, attack and murder civilians, and then complain when the peoples of the country that you are invading take up arms against you? The amount of arrogance and hubris is astonishing, even for a statist. The crimes of Al Qaeda pale in comparison to that of the US.

if you had ever once in your life been a serviceman you would understand why.
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Being a mass murdering coward is not really my style and I fail to see why I should have to be one to "understand why" it is justifiable to murder someone without trial.

What, our soldiers are supposed to stand up and take one for the team from a traitor?
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The soldiers have no business being there. Stop trying to extend the US policy of manifest destiny to the entire world and stop invading other countries and perhaps you won't get shot at by people who are simply defending their own countries. I realize that the US military considers the natives to be little more than untermensch but they have the right to live in peace without having to worry about some drone-flying coward bombing them and killing their friends and family whose only crime is being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
Thanks Damicatz. This lcpiper fella seems very ignorant as to reality IMO. He only see what he is told to (those are the bad guys....all of them...lol). I just only have my phone right now and refuse to start a debate on said device. Just the fact he infers the US is always the good guy is laughable. We are the biggest aggressor of unecceary violence on the planet. Wake the fuck up you brainwashed dimwits. The rich us your ass to fight over resources. It's simple when you think about it.
 
Hell, it's a free country right
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No, not IMO.

"No one is more of a slave than he who thinks himself free without being so" ~ Johann von Goethe


Look into 'Wage slavery' or how much the average middle-class citizen actually pays in all forms of taxation when its all said and done. Kind of hard to be free when the government takes up to half of your earnings in some kind of tax and the rest you need just to survive. Kind of leaves little for you to you know, not be a slave to the wage. It's why the current US fiat currency is debt based from the get go. It wasnt by accident like a design flaw..lol. It's the intended purpose...lol. To enslave by perpetual debt with an ever inflating baseline. So no sir, I'm not free (okay, I'm not chained to a pole...but...there are more types of enslavement too), but you can see pink sky's and purple unicorns if you want.

I typed this out on a G-Nex which means I love you. :) Solider...I'm in love with you. Want to get gay married? Circle yes or no...lol
 
Why the fuck do any of you blame Obama for any of this? Are you 6 years old still? Do you really think a sitting President caused this fucking epic disaster we call America?
 
MCRAYGSX said:
This is absolutely true.

I called EQUIFAX last month. There was random account opened under my ss. Customer service in USA connected my call to India. This person from India who could barely speak English had access to my entire financial history and in depth detail in front of him. How can you trust foreigners with your personnel information.
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Clearly you are a racist and your personal information should be sold to the highest bidder as punishment for your evil bigotry :rolleyes:
 
requiem99 said:
Why the fuck do any of you blame Obama for any of this? Are you 6 years old still? Do you really think a sitting President caused this fucking epic disaster we call America?
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Obama is a narcissist liar. He may not have caused all the ills of today, but he sure is lending more of a helping hand to our nation's decline than even Bush could ever do in his dream
 
CacaSapo said:
“We are not looking to make money,” said Cole. “We charge to cover our costs.”

That's funny, I thought taxes paid for your equipment, salaries, running costs, etc. Golly, I guess I was wrong.
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Yeah, I liked that line as well. Basically he's saying "We have to sell your information so we can get money to pay for the costs of selling your information."
 
This allows the US government to excecute citizens who aren't even holding a firearm.
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No, it guerantees a soldier won't be prosecuted when some "freedom fighter" get's his head blown off and when his body is found he was not overtly armed.

If he were in the US and not in a war zone and an Appache blew his house up killing him on purpose, with the intent of killing him, that would be punished.

If he were in a house sleeping between skirmishes with US troops and an Appache takes the house out, now he is just a casualty of war like all the other soldiers killed in war.

If you want to believe that that law actually authorizes what you say it does then you have no grip on reality. Think it through and stop beliving the bull shit artists.
 
lcpiper said:
No, it guerantees a soldier won't be prosecuted when some "freedom fighter" get's his head blown off and when his body is found he was not overtly armed.

If he were in the US and not in a war zone and an Appache blew his house up killing him on purpose, with the intent of killing him, that would be punished.

If he were in a house sleeping between skirmishes with US troops and an Appache takes the house out, now he is just a casualty of war like all the other soldiers killed in war.

If you want to believe that that law actually authorizes what you say it does then you have no grip on reality. Think it through and stop beliving the bull shit artists.
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While I don't agree with everything he says, if you are going to try and use this defense then your going to have to define what exactly the war zone is.

While I support tracking down and eliminating terrorists I'm also very torn when it comes to using drones to eliminate targets outside the combat zone of Afghanistan often without the approval of the country they fly over and/or strike.

We have and/or are using drones to strike targets in Pakistan, Yemen , Somalia, and Libya. I addition we've used them for surveillance not only in those countries but also Algeria and Iran, and those are just countries we know about, who knows how many others there are.

How would we, as the US, react if Cuba start staging drone strikes on anti-Castro "terrorists" in South Florida, or Iran staged strikes against US bases responsible for the drones overflying their country?

It seems to me that the US has decided that any target is valid as long as it's in a county that isn't big enough to threaten us.
 
Well along with your concern over our getting permission you also have to take into account that in some cases the country gives us permission if we promise not to tell anyone. They may even strike a deal saying that we have to accept being accused of the action publicly so the other country's leadership can deny they approved it. We just don't know, we won't know, and if they "leak it" or it's compromised we still don't know.

As for defining a war zone, go to one, you'll recognize it for what it is quick enough.

if you are going to try and use this defense
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And Darkstar, this is not a defense, this is the actual intent of the legislation and the only reason people don't know this is because they listen to someone else as they extract excerpts and warp the truth of it all. I mean really, does anyone here really believe that we signed a bill into Law that says a soldier and do these things to just any US Citizen? But when presented with the real reason some still find it hard to accept that the alternative, which makes far more sense, is the truth.

It's easier to believe the unbelievable :D
 
Yes, exactly. The US has never participated in extrajudicial killing of non-combatants in non-combat zones. That's crazy talk.
 
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