The GeForce RTX 2080 Ti is Too Damn High! @ [H]

damicatz

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People compensating for a small penis by bragging about how they wasted $2000+ on video cards. Now I've seen everything.
 

heatlesssun

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lol...so many superlatives...lmao

And again nothing of use for people who already have 1080 Tis who want more 4k gaming performance. You're just spreading random nonsense and can't even answer simple very specific question.
 

Joust

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Chances are, for many here, the 2080 ti is just not the card for you. If you're on a 1080p monitor or 1440p and own a 1080 ti .... you're going to get really nice frame-rates. If you have a 1060 or 1070 on a 1080p .... your going to get really nice frame rates. There are many many guys still on 980 ti's and 1080p monitors that are more than happy.

I think what a lot of people are missing here is that if you're a 4K monitor owner and I really wish I knew those numbers right now ... I'm going to say, not many ... and have a 1080 ti .... there have been many experiences for me personally where I had to turn down settings to have the experience I personally wanted to have. Not all games, but ... a lot. So for us few this new video card becomes very enticing. I want to be careful not to sound like an asshole here, or condescending or devoid of empathy with you guys ... cause that's absolutely not the case but in my mind, 4K monitors and high-end cards such as the 2080 ti are premium PC parts. The people buying them might possible have greater spending power and or willing to spend the extra cash.

I never thought the 1080 ti at it's $800 price point was a video card most would own. Again, those numbers are in the single digits in regards to ownership. Come to think of it, I wish HardOCP would do a massive polling of it's users to see where HardOCP stands in that regard. I love HardOCP. In my mind, more people on HardOCP own the high-end stuff rather than say, a cheap bro-gamer with a 1050 ti running some low end AMD cpu in a black and plastic chrome case with blinding blue LEDs.

It also really comes down to how passionate you are about your craft. I love the PC ..... really really love the PC. The $1200 didn't even sting me. sure, I wish it was cheaper but as a 4K monitor owner and first hand knowledge of what the 1080 ti can and cannot do ... I'm more than happy to have this chance to buy this card. Man, I cannot wait. It's all I think about as I sit here waiting for my MSI Gaming Trio 2080 ti to show up at Microcenter. And apparently, some of what I just said resonates with all the other people that are buying this card. It's sold out everywhere.

So, I wouldn't be too upset at the price especially if you couldn't currently make good use of it. I would say try and temper your annoyance with your current real world needs. I also think we haven't seen the final price on this card yet. Remember, there is a $999 price posted all over for the RTX 2080 ti. Perhaps we will see that price sooner rather than later. Lastly, I want to point out that the RTX 2080 Ti will always be an expensive card. $999 is a lot of damn money for many of you. And when you get to $999 ... what's an extra $199. This card is never going to be affordable or cheap as long as it's the current hotness. Of course AMD can change this along with time. In a few years, who knows.

While not fair, the only way to combat this price ( if you really want this card ) is to ..... save up the money to buy it. And some advice. This is a pretty sweet card, the RTX 2080 Ti. With overclocking you're going to see a nice 35% to 40% gain on average coming from a 1080 ti. With your old card and it's value, maybe a handful of things you have laying around your home that you don't want, need or use, selling those items, saving a few hundred dollars here and there and maybe avoiding spending money you might typically spend, cutting back on those things for a short period of time ... then this card will become within reach of you. I'm a firm believer in not robbing yourself of an awesome fun experience especially if it's just a few hundred here and there that's in the way. Don't become so sour at the price that you get mad and miss out on this experience. It's just money.

I would love for all of you to own the RTX 2080 Ti.

Cyberpunk 2077 on a 4K monitor being pushed by a RTX 2080 Ti and an Intel 9900K @ 5Ghz .... yes please, I'll take two!

Spending power may or may not inform some decisions here. Very, very few people - globally - are positioned to be entirely and genuinely price-agnostic. Your thoughts do seem meritorious. I mean, I was absolutely willing to pay for a 1080ti at MSRP, but I wasn't willing to pay MSRP + $300-$400, both on principle and as a matter of the value of the benefit to me. I suppose you are correct; the 2080ti is not marketed to me. It's not really the absolute dollars, though, nor exactly a resource limitation. The issue is that the perceived benefit over competing products simply is not price-worthy to me. Maybe I am just cheap.
 

heatlesssun

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So what would you suggest is the best 4k gaming solution out there? Not really sure why you go on with nonsense. If you don't know or care that's fine. But fuck, anyone can act like their 10 years old.
 

ChadD

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Ah - well I'm jelly they still got to preorder their very nice 2080Tis then, while I have to wait to preorder my 2070 FTW

Oh man I feel for you... how man tables did you have to wait on to get yours ordered up ? Oh man wait... don't tell me you been working a stage for singles instead. Dude that is like $1200 grabby thong stashes. Damn Nvidia really is evil. lol :)
 
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heatlesssun

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Ah - well I'm jelly they still got to preorder their very nice 2080Tis then, while I have to wait to still preorder my 2070 FTW

LOL! At this point I have no idea if I'm jelly or spam. I pre-ordered two 2080 Tis right at launch on August 20th and nVidia hasn't sent me an damned thing about anything. We'll see how the supply of the 2080 Ti goes but I think it's going to be pretty tight. Sure it's over priced and I'm guessing the part a bitch to make right now.
 
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heatlesssun

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Oh man I feel for you... how man tables did you have to wait on to get yours ordered up ? Oh man wait... don't tell me you been working a stage for singles instead. Dude that is like $1200 grabby thong stashes. Damn Nvidia really is evil. lol :)

WTF?
 

staknhalo

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Oh man I feel for you... how man tables did you have to wait on to get yours ordered up ? Oh man wait... don't tell me you been working a stage for singles instead. Dude that is like $1200 grabby thong stashes. Damn Nvidia really is evil. lol :)

wut

Are you having a stroke?
 

ChadD

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wut

Are you having a stroke?

No just not reading things.... conflating things as you would say. Its irok throwing his money around. All the talk of Jelly and I missed the part where you said you really are waiting to order a 2070.

Pay no attention... and enjoy the late night chuckle. lol My apologize, hopefully no one is having to work for singles to afford the 2070... I imagine NV will release 2070/60/50 ect when they run through the 1000 stock.

In all seriousness though. The outrage about the 2080 / and 2080 ti pricing has nothing to do with haves and have nots. There is always a faster card unless you really are running some 20 thousand dollar workstation. Personally I'm just annoyed that Nvidia is pushing RT without having mid range cards to push it at all. Its a recipe for more DOA tech. They already ruined Physx... I just hope they don't do the same now with RT stuff. As long as they support vulkan and developers choose that route things will likely be fine long term. Thing is AMDs cards will be able to do the Vulkan stuff as well.... so here is hoping Nvidia doesn't try to use their marketing funds to push developers into some stupid proprietary NV favoring or locked software calls.

Can't wait to see what Navi can actually do with a Vulkan Real time RT game. (AMD should have sprung for some Disney stormtrooper IP)
 

Smashing Young Man

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People with money tend to have the best financial sense. [F]rugal, if you will. Just because you have the money to spend on an overpriced item doesn't mean you should, and that it isn't overpriced.
 
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heatlesssun

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In all seriousness though. The outrage about the 2080 / and 2080 ti pricing has nothing to do with haves and have nots. There is always a faster card unless you really are running some 20 thousand dollar workstation. Personally I'm just annoyed that Nvidia is pushing RT without having mid range cards to push it at all. Its a recipe for more DOA tech. They already ruined Physx... I just hope they don't do the same now with RT stuff. As long as they support vulkan and developers choose that route things will likely be fine long term. Thing is AMDs cards will be able to do the Vulkan stuff as well.... so here is hoping Nvidia doesn't try to use their marketing funds to push developers into some stupid proprietary NV favoring or locked software calls.

I don't think anyone is arguing against any of this. But it has to start somewhere. Something like ray tracing was never going to just launch with tons of hardware and software support and run great on $200 GPUs. For all of nVidia's evils they are taking a risk here. Totally new tech and as it's supported by both DX and Vulkan, so not locked to nVidia hardware. While nothing much else is going on in the GPU world right now, launching this stuff into the top end enthusiasts market makes sense. If it fails, it'll be with early adopter types that are willing to take risks on the latest and greatest.

Can't wait to see what Navi can actually do with a Vulkan Real time RT game. (AMD should have sprung for some Disney stormtrooper IP)

Just like everyone else. We wouldn't be in this position of AMD hadn't been out of the top end GPU market for over two years now.
 

staknhalo

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People with money tend to have the best financial sense. [F]rugal, if you will. Just because you have the money to spend on an overpriced item doesn't mean you should, and that it isn't overpriced.

And just because you can't afford something, or something has increased in price (especially if because of new included technology), doesn't mean it's necessarily overpriced either.
 

heatlesssun

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Just because you have the money to spend on an overpriced item doesn't mean you should, and that it isn't overpriced.

We're talking about an entertainment item here though. I guess I should have never bought a GPU or even a single PC game ever, there's better uses for the money right?
 

Hagrid

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And just because you can't afford something, or something has increased in price (especially if because of new included technology), doesn't mean it's necessarily overpriced either.
Usually no, but in this case, yes.
 

heatlesssun

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Usually no, but in this case, yes.

It's not a mutually exclusive situation here. Is the 2080 TI over priced? Sure. Does it have top line 4k performance? Yes. Some of you are making this way more complicated than it is. I have two 1080 Tis currently. There are situations where I'd like more performance at 4k. If you don't game at 4k using something at the level of a 1080 Ti then how the hell are you judging overpriced in terms of real world gaming?

Sure, wait for Navi of 7 nm or this of that or the other. Or buy something there's here that's faster. And given the current market for GPUs, it's easy to get decent money on for used 1080 Tis to offset the cost.
 

Derangel

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People care way too damn much about what other people spend THEIR OWN MONEY on. I don't think the 2080 ti is worth it over the 1080 ti, even at 4K, and I think the card is overpriced. If people disagree and want one (or two) anyway, cool. Good for them, I hope they enjoy it. The numbers are out there, people can make informed decisions on their own.
 

heatlesssun

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People care way too damn much about what other people spend THEIR OWN MONEY on. I don't think the 2080 ti is worth it over the 1080 ti, even at 4K, and I think the card is overpriced. If people disagree and want one (or two) anyway, cool. Good for them, I hope they enjoy it. The numbers are out there, people can make informed decisions on their own.

Yes the numbers are out there and the 2080 Ti overall from what I've read from the reviews does provide a significant lift over the 1080 Ti at 4k. And that could increase significantly over time with DLSS support. Maybe the 2080 Ti isn't worth it. Maybe in 6 months or less there's something better for less. For now it's easy enough to sell 1080 Tis and make up almost all the difference between the price of a 2080 Ti and 1080 Ti and get a performance boost.
 

ChadD

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I don't think anyone is arguing against any of this. But it has to start somewhere. Something like ray tracing was never going to just launch with tons of hardware and software support and run great on $200 GPUs. For all of nVidia's evils they are taking a risk here. Totally new tech and as it's supported by both DX and Vulkan, so not locked to nVidia hardware. While nothing much else is going on in the GPU world right now, launching this stuff into the top end enthusiasts market makes sense. If it fails, it'll be with early adopter types that are willing to take risks on the latest and greatest.

Just like everyone else. We wouldn't be in this position of AMD hadn't been out of the top end GPU market for over two years now.

You have a point on hardware... yes AMD needs to release their Navi cards sooner rather then later.

To be clear with Nvidias RTX though... they didn't come up with some new fantastic gaming tracing cores. They developed Tensor cores for use in deep learning stuff with no thought of gaming. They have found them a use.... as designing a brand new GPU chip without them at this point would cost more. They are integrated into their design. I'm not saying they won't be handy... but frankly for a long while they are going to sit there doing nothing. I look forward to all the Prosumer people wining when Nvidia at some point makes it impossible to use those 20xx tensor cores under CUDA. I doubt Nvidia wants to really eat into their AI sales.

As for games with RT... they where coming no matter what NV would be doing. So coding support for those cores sitting on their dies is logical, smart and a good move. (not knocking Nvidia here really) AMD has been pushing this tech for almost a year now behind the scenes... Nvidias tensor cores are hardly the only cores capable of calculating rays. AMDs solution has the advantage of being .... both Manufacturer agnostic (it runs on AMD NVidia... and even Intel) completely open, as well as being capable of using CPU cores. Traced games in the future are more likely to be chewing up 3-4 spare CPU cores as they are to be talking to Nvidias Deep learning tensor cores designed to push matrix operations.

I know this video is long and parts are boring still... AMD has been working with engine developers for a year now integrating radeon rays and pro render for real time rays.


Nvidia using their pretty much useless otherwise for gaming tensor cores to hook into Vulkan and DX12 (DXR) is logical. Having said that DXR doesn't at all in anyway require speicfic hardware... its just general compute work. Its even possible to offload a lot of the ray calculation to the CPU. Microsofts DXR tracking extensions are not an Nvidia invention... the standard was developed with MS Nvidia AMD and Intel. AMD announced back in march that they would be adding DXR to their drivers at some point in the future... and hinted they also have future hardware designed with it in mind. We'll see the end of 2018 might be interesting, AMD seems like they are ready to get Navi out before the end of the year. Mark Papermaster AMDs CTO has announced Navi and zen2 are both tapping out right now. It will be interesting getting actual spec and architecture details of Navi... Lisa Su has been steering Navi into a design tailored for PS5 / xbone2, I can't imagine chips for those are not going to include RTR support.
 

Pieter3dnow

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It is so expensive because they can, not because they have too. Oh well, enjoy those $1600 3080's, I will have a whole computer for that much and nearly the same performance, as well.

Did you see the Quadro have nearly the same specs? That is the product for the professional market. You are basically getting the "same" thing...
Find other GPU that has a size of 700 mm2 without HBM you won't find any (consumer space).

If Nvidia continues with RTX and they increase the amount of tray tracing cores to twice the amount they have now and use a lower nano meter process (this is more expensive then people think(yields matter more)) you prolly looking at double the price rather then just $1600 . If Nvidia can not reduce the real estate (die size) taken by RTX or find a clever way to reduce shaders without reducing performance the price is going to go up by a lot.
 

Comixbooks

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This card doesn't improve anything except leaves a big hole in your pocket. I changed my mind today about purchasing one today maybe a few months down the road when they are cheaper.
 

ManofGod

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Did you see the Quadro have nearly the same specs? That is the product for the professional market. You are basically getting the "same" thing...
Find other GPU that has a size of 700 mm2 without HBM you won't find any (consumer space).

If Nvidia continues with RTX and they increase the amount of tray tracing cores to twice the amount they have now and use a lower nano meter process (this is more expensive then people think(yields matter more)) you prolly looking at double the price rather then just $1600 . If Nvidia can not reduce the real estate (die size) taken by RTX or find a clever way to reduce shaders without reducing performance the price is going to go up by a lot.

So, they can justify the price then, good for them. Ah well, there is nothing that would justify the price in my world, although I do like new technology, guess I will just keep enjoying keeping up with the knowledge like I always have and leave it at that. Suddenly, if possible, AMD comes out with something that competes is less than half the price and just like that, Nvidia cuts their prices drastically well still making a profit. :D (Of course, that is just conjecture but you get the idea.) See AMD vs. Intel.
 

Pieter3dnow

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So, they can justify the price then, good for them. Ah well, there is nothing that would justify the price in my world, although I do like new technology, guess I will just keep enjoying keeping up with the knowledge like I always have and leave it at that. Suddenly, if possible, AMD comes out with something that competes is less than half the price and just like that, Nvidia cuts their prices drastically well still making a profit. :D (Of course, that is just conjecture but you get the idea.) See AMD vs. Intel.
Nvidia can justify it. However you want to spend your money is of your own choosing.
You are buying a 1st generation piece of hardware without any software support. Unless Nvidia provides support to every games developer it is not going to take off either.
 

Hagrid

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And many of the people buying them currently disagree with your subjective assessment. Items are worth what people are willing to pay for them.



¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Generally speaking. Im sure you can figure that out. The price per dollar is bad. Did you not read any of the info?
 

staknhalo

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Generally speaking. Im sure you can figure that out. The price per dollar is bad. Did you not read any of the info?

Yup, read the info. Still see people buying them who think it is worth it (that's why they're buying it). Do you not see that?
 

Dayaks

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You have a point on hardware... yes AMD needs to release their Navi cards sooner rather then later.

To be clear with Nvidias RTX though... they didn't come up with some new fantastic gaming tracing cores. They developed Tensor cores for use in deep learning stuff with no thought of gaming. They have found them a use.... as designing a brand new GPU chip without them at this point would cost more. They are integrated into their design. I'm not saying they won't be handy... but frankly for a long while they are going to sit there doing nothing. I look forward to all the Prosumer people wining when Nvidia at some point makes it impossible to use those 20xx tensor cores under CUDA. I doubt Nvidia wants to really eat into their AI sales.

As for games with RT... they where coming no matter what NV would be doing. So coding support for those cores sitting on their dies is logical, smart and a good move. (not knocking Nvidia here really) AMD has been pushing this tech for almost a year now behind the scenes... Nvidias tensor cores are hardly the only cores capable of calculating rays. AMDs solution has the advantage of being .... both Manufacturer agnostic (it runs on AMD NVidia... and even Intel) completely open, as well as being capable of using CPU cores. Traced games in the future are more likely to be chewing up 3-4 spare CPU cores as they are to be talking to Nvidias Deep learning tensor cores designed to push matrix operations.

I know this video is long and parts are boring still... AMD has been working with engine developers for a year now integrating radeon rays and pro render for real time rays.


Nvidia using their pretty much useless otherwise for gaming tensor cores to hook into Vulkan and DX12 (DXR) is logical. Having said that DXR doesn't at all in anyway require speicfic hardware... its just general compute work. Its even possible to offload a lot of the ray calculation to the CPU. Microsofts DXR tracking extensions are not an Nvidia invention... the standard was developed with MS Nvidia AMD and Intel. AMD announced back in march that they would be adding DXR to their drivers at some point in the future... and hinted they also have future hardware designed with it in mind. We'll see the end of 2018 might be interesting, AMD seems like they are ready to get Navi out before the end of the year. Mark Papermaster AMDs CTO has announced Navi and zen2 are both tapping out right now. It will be interesting getting actual spec and architecture details of Navi... Lisa Su has been steering Navi into a design tailored for PS5 / xbone2, I can't imagine chips for those are not going to include RTR support.

How do you write all that and not know tensor cores aren’t used for ray tracing? Ray tracing cores are completely seperate and developed just for RT.

Gaming is also brings in more revenue than all other areas combined. It’s not some after thought.
 

Hagrid

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Yup, read the info. Still see people buying them who think it is worth it (that's why they're buying it). Do you not see that?
Yes, a small percentage. Which means that they are too expensive for people who actually want value for their dollar otherwise most everybody would be getting one. ;)
 

staknhalo

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Yes, a small percentage. Which means that they are too expensive for people who actually want value for their dollar otherwise most everybody would be getting one. ;)

Even the 1080 Ti that's being used as the reason to not buy RTX 20x0 is far from something the average consumer would ever buy.

So no, not most everybody would be getting one. ;)
 

alxlwson

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No need. My 980ti does a decent job of running my display. The 1080ti I have on the way will give me a fantastic experience. Only thing better would be if nVidia had freesync enabled in their modern desktop drivers. Once upon a tine, they supported it in their mobile drivers
 
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