The GeForce RTX 2080 Ti is Too Damn High! @ [H]

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Kyle_Bennett, Sep 21, 2018.

  1. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

    Messages:
    54,890
    Joined:
    May 18, 1997
    The GeForce RTX 2080 Ti is Too Damn High!


    Is the RTX 2080 Ti FE priced too damn high, or is it not? What about the RTX 2080 FE card? Certainly RTX pricing has been a hot topic lately, but what if we adjusted for inflation and actually compared launch prices of NVIDIA video cards over the last 18 years or so? That is exactly what we have done, and laid it all out, so you can make up your own mind.

    If you like our content, please support HardOCP on Patreon.
     
    Red Falcon, drklu and Krenum like this.
  2. damicatz

    damicatz 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,726
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    Absolutely. The 8800 Ultra could at least be someone justified by the fact that it was massively faster than the previous 7 series. The 2080 Ti is not. NVIDIA is starting to get complacent and act like Intel did with CPUs and that is a bad thing for PC gaming.
     
  3. spaceman

    spaceman [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    14,669
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2005
    Yuuuup. I mean. Damn. Way more than any previous new releases. Barely supported, first gen tech and hardly any real performance increase. Asshole move.


    Yeah yeah, new drivers, blah blah blah. Still a huge price increase.
     
  4. Araxie

    Araxie [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,303
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Cost per transistor has increased dramatically in the last year, DDR3/DDR4/GDDR5/5x/6 (RAM in general) have increased dramatically in the last couple of years, HUGE die size of Turing increase overall cost as less can be produced per wafer and other couple of miscellaneous odds..

    Price it's high?, yes. But not that crazy high.. it was expected that most electronic devices were going to have a considerable price increase in 2018, it's has been happening in general with all.
     
    Orddie likes this.
  5. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ Little Bitch

    Messages:
    8,472
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    but Kyle_Bennett msrp is only 1000 dollars.

    sure you'll never buy it at that price but in the future when we are talking about nvidia card prices again well see that in a graph it was never 1200 dollars just 1000 because that's msrp.
     
    DF-1, Darth Kyrie and GoldenTiger like this.
  6. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,845
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Yeah I don’t think wanting 1080ti MSRP makes sense. I wish it was more $999.

    To your point if you told me we were going to have a 754mm^2 GPU launching I would have guessed around $1500 (and skipped it).
     
    GoldenTiger likes this.
  7. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

    Messages:
    54,890
    Joined:
    May 18, 1997
    Yeah, we discussed going by MSRP, but the fact is that the card cost what it cost direct from NVIDIA....that is the fucking price to me. So we went with it.
     
    TripleAgent77, N4CR, DF-1 and 3 others like this.
  8. chenw

    chenw 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,969
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2014
    Plus, MSRP $999 cards has yet to be seen, no? I haven't seen any reviews where any AIB versions had anything lower than the FE price, so if anything, FE cost is actually the lowest that we can avail of right now.
     
  9. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

    Messages:
    54,890
    Joined:
    May 18, 1997
    Launch day prices are launch day prices. No matter what NVIDIA wants to tell us "MSRP" is...
     
    alxlwson, N4CR, harmattan and 2 others like this.
  10. FlawleZ

    FlawleZ Gawd

    Messages:
    676
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    And honestly I think its hardly fair to compare 8800 Ultra pricing compared to say 8800GTX where performance increase was marginal but the msrp of 8800GTX was what $650? MUCH more in line with typical pricing. Also if we look at average % performance gain from one generation to the next, again the 8800GTX stands in a m
    League of own.
     
  11. JStamsek

    JStamsek Douche Canoe

    Messages:
    8,966
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Great article and informative. Confirms what we were seeing. Price gouging by Nvidia.

    Crypto made them greedy. And now they’re worried about the onslaught on overstock thru have. My guess anyways.
     
    dvsman likes this.
  12. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Stay [H]ard

    Messages:
    49,420
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    This is your GPU:

    th?id=OIP.38FMusUFgInXFgLCQOPQ2wHaFj&w=215&h=165&c=7&o=5&dpr=2.8125&pid=1.jpg

    This is your GPU on drugs:

    upload_2018-9-21_23-51-11.jpeg
     
  13. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    14,440
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2005





    Ugh, seeing that graph is depressing, its only going to go up from here on out. I feel like one of my favorite hobbies is being taken away. Not that I couldn't afford it, but at some point you have to stop and ask yourself, is it worth it? Is the does the price you pay for these parts justify the enjoyment you will receive?

    Thanks for researching and posting that Kyle.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
    John721, Comixbooks and heatlesssun like this.
  14. Ranulfo

    Ranulfo [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,236
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Doesn't look like it is memory costs:

     
    Comixbooks likes this.
  15. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    14,440
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2005
    Its the Nvidia early adopter tax, soon followed by the if it ain't broken don't fix it tax.
     
    xorbe and Ranulfo like this.
  16. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

    Messages:
    3,271
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Yep; 3 major issues for Nvidia over the next 6 months.
    1 - Red Hot secondary market... due to almost 2 years of the same high end parts being sold to miners, who have been and will be dumping decently priced used stock for months.
    2 - apparent overstock of 1000 chips.... and potentially massive rebates owed to OEMS (which have been shipped 10s of thousands of chips that have yet to sell to end users) but have already been counted as sold as far as NV shareholders are concerned.
    3 - related too 2.... if the AMD Navi part does hit it doesn't have to dominate performance or sales to make NV life painful. a $600-700 AMD 7nm vega Should perform right between 2080 and 2080ti assuming AMD doesn't tweak the core and is just shrinking the die and nothing more. Which makes #2 a real PITA for NV if they are forced to drop 2080, and possibly much more on 1080 still in the channel.

    The more of the reviews I read... the more it seems to me anyway that NV rushed this out to get ahead of Navi. (no I'm not saying AMD is going to destroy them in performance... but in value no doubt)
    If the choice is 2080 for 800 bucks, or a slightly faster Vega 84 for 700, or slighly slower Vega 74 for 500. That is going to hit NV right in the junk if they are still trying to unload 1080 cards. It also makes it very hard to justify 2080ti at 1200 bucks if Vega 84 is performing within a few FPS for almost half the MSRP.
     
    dvsman and Darth Kyrie like this.
  17. drklu

    drklu 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,266
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
  18. readeh

    readeh Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    234
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Even Nvidia themselves priced their gpu at $1200 on their own site.. Obviously MSRP is not $999 and AIB partners won't price them at that.
     
    N4CR, DF-1, MrTryfe and 2 others like this.
  19. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,012
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    It is the same die size as the Quadro RTX 8000 over 700 mm2 . What did you expect ?

    If you don't perceive this as value for money don't buy it..
     
  20. Bawjaws

    Bawjaws Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    262
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Yeah, I agree with you. Whether or not I can afford £1,000+ for a GPU isn't the issue, it's whether I'm willing to spend that much money on a fucking graphics card that's the question. And the answer is: no, if I'm going to drop that amount of cash on a hobby, I have other things I'd rather spend the money on.
     
  21. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

    Messages:
    11,866
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    You can't even buy one even if you wanted one. It might be December before they have them in quantity.
     
  22. Darth Kyrie

    Darth Kyrie n00bie

    Messages:
    24
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Isn't the MSRP for the slower chips that AIB's get to sell without being able to factory OC them? We know nVidia is binning chips this go round.
     
  23. Araxie

    Araxie [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,303
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    same happened with 1000 series, nvndia FE was more expensive than other aftermarket models available.. even those cheap blower versions of Asus and MSI were a bit lower than 599$ MSRP, (not the 699$ with 100$ FE TAX)... then Nvidia removed the FE tax for the GTX 1080 and dropped the price, GTX 1080Ti was launched without the FE Tax, so it's a fair assumption that in couple of months the FE TAX of 2080 and 2080Ti may be removed.
     
  24. staknhalo

    staknhalo [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,214
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    [F]rugalOCP
     
    Montu likes this.
  25. MacLeod

    MacLeod [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    8,176
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Kinda makes me glad I've stayed at 1920x1080 and not made the jump to 4K. My 4+ year old GPU is still getting the job done and I could get a 100% performance increase with a $450 GPU.

    But then this is what happens when you don't have a competitive market place. Hopefully AMD can bring something to the market soon..... Not holding my breath but as long as Nvidia's only competition is the last Gen cards for their own line, they're going to continue to fuck us with these ridiculous prices. Judging by all the "out of stock" items on Newegg, there are plenty of sheep willing to pay a hefty premium for a card that's only benefit is that it's ready for a technology that's barely on the horizon.

    I've said it before, paying $1200 for a card that's only 25% faster than a card that costs $650 or paying $800 for a card that's the SAME as the $650 card doesn't make you [H]ard. I think what you're talking about is [E]peenOCP.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
    N4CR, alxlwson, Ranulfo and 6 others like this.
  26. staknhalo

    staknhalo [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,214
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    [Y]ouCanAlwaysGoBuyAConsoleLolOCP
     
  27. jtm55

    jtm55 Gawd

    Messages:
    519
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Hi All

    Yes, it's too damn high. This along with Nvidia's previous shenanigans has pretty much moved me away from them. I'll be waiting to see what AMD does.Until then I'm standing pat with what I have
     
  28. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

    Messages:
    3,271
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Go scroll down to the oldest CPU and GPU articles Kyle has on the site.

    Celeron 300a overclocking... Voodoo card overclocking.

    Original Voodoo Overclock
    By Kyle Bennett January 01, 1998
    More Bang without Bankruptcy?

    I mean its not like bang for your buck is a new concept. Yes [H] is over 20 years old and many of us that where around with the hobby 20 years ago where likely less able to drop the big coin on the "big" gear. However just because I'm now capable of burning more money on the hobby... its just not as fun buying the rich kid best of the best anything. You know what made the hobby fun for a lot of people 20 years ago... finding the inexpensive Gems you could squeeze and make almost as powerful as those rich kid parts. In some cases we even got lucky and found parts that could be pushed to out perform their makers intended #1s.

    I know we will not likely ever find a first generation celerton type part that outperforms the best of the best with some tweaking.... or a lowend voodoo card you can push and use as a space heater while impressing your friends with benchmark numbers = to 2 cards. Still I have to say... just opening my wallet and dropping more on a video card then I am generally willing to spend on a gaming machines CPU/MB and RAM combined just feels wrong somehow, like I'm cheating.... like I will perhaps have become the idiot young me would have laughed at for buying a P2 or worse a P4.
     
    Ranulfo, FlawleZ, Darth Kyrie and 3 others like this.
  29. staknhalo

    staknhalo [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,214
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    You seem to be conflating that because some things are/were bang for buck = every single thing needs to be bang for buck; no exceptions.

    Do you complain fervently about the Rolls Royce Sweptail simply existing too?
     
    heatlesssun likes this.
  30. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,809
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2005
    I want to see a bill of materials cost for these cards and what margins nvidia is getting. If their margins are the same as when they launched 1080 Ti then we could blame BoM as the culprit for the massive price increase.
     
  31. Montu

    Montu [H]ard DCOTM x4

    Messages:
    8,006
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    If you want the best, you pay for the best. People buying these cards want the best.

    I want the best and have been buying the best for several years now.

    With that said, NV is starting to test my limits.
     
  32. Montu

    Montu [H]ard DCOTM x4

    Messages:
    8,006
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Without a doubt the die size is causing some increase in cost. Also, it's a custom node for Nvidia so it's bound to be additional cost there as well. Does that mean they aren't padding margins? Nope.

    It does mean the BOM is higher without a doubt compared to 16nm. How much is the real question.
     
  33. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,593
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    So, you have your order in for 2 x 2080ti, right? o_O:rolleyes:
     
  34. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,593
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    Good thing there are companies like Honda that are willing to make something reliable without raping your wallet at the same time. Sorry but, the best does not justify the cost at all times, as the testing of your limits indicates.
     
    seanreisk and FlawleZ like this.
  35. staknhalo

    staknhalo [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,214
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    I'm waiting to preorder the RTX 2070 FTW to replace my 970 FTW.

    That doesn't mean I complain about the price of the 2080, 2080Ti or 2070. Or the difference I'll be paying in between the 970 FTW I bought and the 2070 FTW I'll be buying. I buy what I can afford - even if it ends up just being a 2030. Complaining about the prices of these cards shows entitlement on behalf of the complainers.

    Again, you always have consoles to buy if you're so upset lmao.
     
  36. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,593
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    Ah, so getting your bang for your buck is important to you after all. :D Obviously, you do not put your money where your mouth is but hey, that is ok, you keep telling others what to spend well you do not do the same yourself. :rolleyes:o_O
     
  37. staknhalo

    staknhalo [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,214
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
     
  38. MacLeod

    MacLeod [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    8,176
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Hahahaha!

    well-played-zs3xw4.jpg
     
    staknhalo likes this.
  39. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,593
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    LOL! Well played for someone who has no understanding of the economics of the situation, anyways. Oh well, 2020, NVidia 3080, $1600 MSRP and people will still attempt to justify it. :D
     
    Denjoy likes this.
  40. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

    Messages:
    11,866
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008

    Graphics card Junkie
     
    heatlesssun and ManofGod like this.