The GeForce RTX 2080 Ti is Too Damn High! @ [H]

CoreStoffer

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You could argue that things are a bit different this time around as nVidia launches their top chip right away for gamers. Normally that top chip will only be used in Quadro and maybe Titan cards for some time, while they have time to accumulate a healthy stack of chips that just didn’t quite make it with all cores enabled. Only then would they launch the Ti version.

It is important to remember that the RTX Quadro cards haven’t even shipped yet while they were announced before RTX GeForce. I just think the chips for 2080 Ti will be in low supply and expensive to produce as well. NVidia wanted to get it out there, knowing it would be in short supply (compared the 1080 Ti) and priced it like a Titan.

Hate the price though. :mad::(
 

FrgMstr

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Ray tracing can be implemented with DSSL OR without.
DSSL without Ray tracing will increase performance at least 30% and Mabe more at 4k ,1440p, or 1080p and has as good or better Image quality.
We will see, apparently you have a lot more independent data on actual gameplay than I do at this point however.

For games to be setup for DLSS, those games must be submitted back to NVIDIA, then returned to the devs for implementation. Let's see how it all works out before we draw any perf conclusions. That said, I hope it kicks ass like no tomorrow.
 

M76

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Well, as it was said already. The TI has replaced the Titan, not the TI. From enthusiast high-end to a niche.

I think they went too far this time. With the GPP shenanigans and their general attitude I'd probably be on the fence even if it was priced fairly.

Fanboys can fanboy all they want they won't justify this. The performance won't justify this. RT and DSSL won't justify this (both are gimmicks that need support from specific games and not even launch features) I wouldn't buy a car either if the manufacturers says, "Oh we'll ship the cruise control later".
 

CipherZ

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The price will drop, just give it a few months.
The launch price is always a early adopters tax, designed for the suckers with money to burn that have no patience and must have the latest and greatest NOW.

It is a never ending circle, and that is why the savvy tech buyers stay one generation behind the current trend and save a load of cash.

The only real reason I can see to wanting to upgrade to a RTX2080ti now would be for comfortable 4k gaming on a single GFX card.

But dunno about you guys, but I'm in no hurry to upgrade from 2k to 4k gaming, not at this point in time.
 
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Fanboys can fanboy all they want they won't justify this. The performance won't justify this. RT and DSSL won't justify this (both are gimmicks that need support from specific games and not even launch features) I wouldn't buy a car either if the manufacturers says, "Oh we'll ship the cruise control later"

Nvidia has implemented these features on a hardware level, this is not gameworks.
I don't think Nvidia would invest a billion dollars and years of developement for a gimmick.
Thats common sense,not fanboyism.

Think if it as a fast Corvette that you pay top dollar for and a promise of a free turbo charger later.
 

M76

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Nvidia has implemented these features on a hardware level, this is not gameworks.
I don't think Nvidia would invest a billion dollars and years of developement for a gimmick.
Thats common sense,not fanboyism.

Think if it as a fast Corvette that you pay top dollar for and a promise of a free turbo charger later.

Where it is implemented is irrelevant to whether it is a gimmick or not.

It's rather a promise of a towing hitch for the corvette. It's great that you can tow but it won't go past 35 while doing so. Therefore: Gimmick. I won't go back to 1080p and 30fps.
 

T_A

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This launch just makes no sense, the price of 2080 is near or higher than 1080ti giving around the same performance
nvidia are competing against themselves , and when the stock of 1080ti will run out, what then? what kind of lower tier card can they introduce ?
2070 thats slower or same as 1080 but costs more?

this generation is a weird side-grade for 'features'.
 

Nolan7689

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DSSL without Ray tracing will increase performance at least 30% and Mabe more at 4k ,1440p, or 1080p and has as good or better Image quality. Its a much better solution it seems than PS4 checkerboard rendering.

Comparing Apples to Oranges there a bit. Neither of those really have anything to do with the other beyond being performance saving techniques.

One helps apply AA without blurring and high cost, the other helps underpowered hardware produce a 4K image.

Unless of course I’ve greatly misunderstood each of those.
 

demondrops

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like jayz said, u get same bump in performance over last ti gen, but at a 70% increase in price = not worth he said i agree rly lol:p and, also, rey tracing is probably not matured until next gen. and like he said no game uses it yet, i know bf v will use it wich is coming quite soon tho, but it's better to see live, those few prt screens ive seen it looks kinda awesome but. cant really afford a swap now either, and not a single game i played to date need more then 1080ti at 1440p, worst was GR:wl. sometimes things are just all hyped up, so waiting to see. epexted jump in performance was quite around what i guess we should have expected.
 

kirbyrj

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I thought the MSRP of the 2080 FE was $800 not $700 like the chart says.
 

THRESHIN

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They're just trying to make sure their halo card costs more than a halo iPhone.

Yes, the price is high. But the chip is also ridiculously big, and the yield may be ridiculously low, so maybe it has to be.

But this is not life-saving medicine. It's not an EpiPen.
It's not even an apartment in San Fransisco.
Nobody dies, hell nobody even suffers because they can't afford an RTX 2080 Ti.

So it's priced just what it ought to be: whatever the hell price NVidia wants.

I agree. If nvidia wants to price themselves out of the market, I say let them. Who knows, maybe this price really is sustainable.

Personally, I never buy top end. I'd rather spend my money on the more important tthings in life, not have debts, save something for retirement, etc. I usually buy the best value card that suits my needs.

But I'm still happily running on a 970...I have no urge to upgrade until a good game comes out that I really want to play. That wait might be a while....

Also I have no urge to go 4k. I'm quite happy at 1920x1200 (yes its an old monitor). Extra horsepower just goes into AA. I also don't see AA as a necessity, so newer games I'll just turn it off.

Got this card 4 years ago shortly after release and I haven't even bothered to overclock it yet. No need so far. Lots of life left in it yet thanks.

So in short, I don't get it. Probably never will.
 

Denpepe

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With your chart and my old invoices I came to this, these are customs variants, not reference ones though but it gives an idea

GTX 470 359.99€
GTX 580 429.99€ (500$)
GTX 780 679.99€ (650$)
GTX 1080 849.99€ (700$)
RTX 2080 849€ (700$) Nvidia's price on their site (869€ for the cheapest aib card up to 1079€)
RTX 2080Ti 1259€ (1200$) Nvidia's price on their site (1249€ for the cheapest aib card up to 1479€)

Prices on the 2080Ti seem a lot less inflated compared to the 1080/2080, guess the market for those is smaller here

as a side note, on amazon Germany I have seen 3rd party sellers are asking up to 12k€ for RTX cards :p
 

Stimpy88

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nVidia, something's wrong when your RTX2080 is almost out performed by your own cheaper nearly 3 year old architecture, and your loyal user base starts to turn on you.

A nice OC'd GTX1080Ti, or a RTX2080Ti if 15-30% more performance for more than double the price, then on top of that, your gonna love it when nVidia releases the full TU100 chip in 6 months time. The early adopters and pre-orderers need their fucking head examined, cos you got Rickrolled by nVidia alright.

The other point is that the RTX series is offering low resolution partial ray-tracing... Turing is DOA, at least as far as "ray traced" AAA games at 4K is concerned. The next gen cards just may be able to pull off 4K30 though. This tech is no good for at least 3 generations, and even then, it will only get adopted when nVidia make this tech fast and affordable.
 

Stimpy88

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When I saw the article title "The GeForce RTX 2080 Ti is Too Damn High!" I thought first that the card was psychically difficult to put in a case :LOL:

They should have called it "The GeForce RTX2080 Ti - Is the nVidia Tax Too High, Or Just Their Marketing Department?"
 
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What we really need is a comparison of price vs. performance over time; similar, with what the [H] already does with heat sinks (price vs cooling efficiency vs unit/manufacturer). That would be telling whether we are getting more for our money or not and that would be a very worthwhile article. The whole premise of technology is more for less (or the same price) as time marches on. But I am stating the obvious here. Perhaps this post will get me beyond noob status, even though I have frequented this site daily for over 20 years.
 

Dayaks

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What we really need is a comparison of price vs. performance over time; similar, with what the [H] already does with heat sinks (price vs cooling efficiency vs unit/manufacturer). That would be telling whether we are getting more for our money or not and that would be a very worthwhile article. The whole premise of technology is more for less (or the same price) as time marches on. But I am stating the obvious here. Perhaps this post will get me beyond noob status, even though I have frequented this site daily for over 20 years.

“Noobie” is based on post count.

Just keep reposting the same thing in different threads like me, like I am about to do.

If RTX delivers and you value it these cards are fantastic value. If not they are pretty meh. If you need more performance the 2080ti will give you ~45% in newer games like the BF series and around 35% in older BF series. DLSS gives another 30-40% (?) ontop of that.

Many are waiting for 7nm which may help although transistor cost keeps going up. So you have to hope for an imbedded bonus (like more Ghz) with that arch to outweigh the increased per transistor cost.
 

kirbyrj

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“Noobie” is based on post count.

Just keep reposting the same thing in different threads like me, like I am about to do.

If RTX delivers and you value it these cards are fantastic value. If not they are pretty meh. If you need more performance the 2080ti will give you ~45% in newer games like the BF series and around 35% in older BF series. DLSS gives another 30-40% (?) ontop of that.

Many are waiting for 7nm which may help although transistor cost keeps going up. So you have to hope for an imbedded bonus (like more Ghz) with that arch to outweigh the increased per transistor cost.

Correction though. Every time you post the same thing in different threads your performance numbers keep creeping up :p. Pretty soon it will be 75-80% more performance...
 

Dayaks

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Correction though. Every time you post the same thing in different threads your performance numbers keep creeping up :p. Pretty soon it will be 75-80% more performance...

After seeing the AdoredTV video lol. Maybe I should just go with 60% off of one game!? haha

43F48215-591C-44DA-A78F-71B90A4F53D8.png


IMO I would be interested in reviewers rigs vs gains. Some games have wild swings between reviewers and I think a lot of it was CPU bottlenecks.

I think reviewers besides [H] do a shit job of realizing what is actually going on. I saw a review that used a 60Hz capped game and factored it into the average gain %.
 

kirbyrj

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After seeing the AdoredTV video lol. Maybe I should just go with 60% off of one game!? He noted it seems like Turing likes not DX11.

View attachment 105577

IMO I would be interested in reviewers rigs vs gains. Some games have wild swings between reviewers and I think a lot of it was CPU bottlenecks.

I think reviewers besides [H] do a shit job of realizing what is actually going on. I saw a review that used a 60Hz capped game and factored it into the average gain %.

A graph with multiple duplicate titles with different performance numbers and no setting information other than "4k" ? That's not enticing me to drop $1200 yet...
 
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Dayaks

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A graph with multiple duplicate titles with different performance numbers and no setting information other than "4k" ? That's not enticing me to drop $1200 yet...

I am not trying to convince you and I said it was from AdoredTV. If you really want a link I can get it for the context. All he does is compile reviewers results and gives his two cents.

Actually here:



At about six minutes.

Witcher 3, Battlefield, and Shadow of War are literally 3/4 games I play that are not VR lol. So in my case this card presents a large gain.
 

RealBeast

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NVIDIA HQ in Santa Clara, "crazy high" prices on the new cards, and California marijuana legalization for recreation just began this year.

All just coincidence, I think not. ;)
 

kirbyrj

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I am not trying to convince you and I said it was from AdoredTV. If you really want a link I can get it for the context. All he does is compile reviewers results and gives his two cents.

Actually here:



At about six minutes.

Witcher 3, Battlefield, and Shadow of War are literally 3/4 games I play that are not VR lol. So in my case this card presents a large gain.


And then at 6:44 or so it shows the "WORST" results one of them being Witcher 3 at 18.2%. Average performance increase is ~30% which you see at 8:14. I think you're stretching the truth a little citing best case scenarios as normative.
 

Slade

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The 8800gtx was a card i avoided due to pricing at the time vs. performance gain. 2080ti elicited the same gut feeling at announcement as well.

I think of note for these pricing outliers the uniqueness of the timing lines up with new tech, large die to produce with lower yields, lack of competition. just like the 8800gtx timing.

I think a die shrink better yields or competition would have changed pricing strategy
 

Dayaks

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And then at 6:44 or so it shows the "WORST" results one of them being Witcher 3 at 18.2%. Average performance increase is ~30% which you see at 8:14. I think you're stretching the truth a little citing best case scenarios as normative.

That’s why I wrote about different reviewers rigs... and he mentions cpu bottleneck too.
 

jgonz

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The price will drop, just give it a few months.
The launch price is always a early adopters tax, designed for the suckers with money to burn that have no patience and must have the latest and greatest NOW.

It is a never ending circle, and that is why the savvy tech buyers stay one generation behind the current trend and save a load of cash.

The only real reason I can see to wanting to upgrade to a RTX2080ti now would be for comfortable 4k gaming on a single GFX card.

But dunno about you guys, but I'm in no hurry to upgrade from 2k to 4k gaming, not at this point in time.



I remember reading these types of comments back when I bought my 1080FE for $699 at launch. I then laughed for nearly 2 years when most paid 2x that during the mining craze. And I was playing hearthstone on my killer rig. LOL

Point is if you want it and can afford it. Fucking buy it and never look back.
 

bugleyman

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would be super cool to throw in AMD cards....but yea that chart tells a good story . (Nvidia raking in nice margins this go round)

So...pardon the nitpicking, but that chart tells us literally nothing about their margins.

(And for the record, I agree prices this time out are INSANE.)
 
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Minor correction, but the first few Titans were most definitely branded GeForce GTX. I realize that'd screw up the conclusion of "OMG, expensive" if Titans were included, but still. If you include Titans you also would have the example of super-expensive halo parts emerging some time before the more affordable consumer part, which is also what we might get here - once Nvidia gets 7nm working I'd hope for cheaper options for the gaming plebeians like me.
 
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CAD4466HK

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That’s why I wrote about different reviewers rigs... and he mentions cpu bottleneck too.

I mentioned this in another thread.
GN, HU and HC are all seeing bottlenecks @ 1440p in DX11 were there were none before.
And that's w/ 8700k and 8086k @ 5GHz. And that's without RTX and DLSS in the mix.
 

tikiman2012

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Nvidia has always priced their stuff too damn high! As a gamer, it's never been worth it to buy their products. Never have & it appears that I never will.
 

Jumpy-B-L

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i recommend an additional column reflecting multiplier of monthly 'disposable income'
everything seems to get more exp these days, and wage seems stagnant.
i think it would be an interesting graph.

Credit is cheap and easy to come by. I doubt many of these buyers are paying cash for these items. It's the new economy.
 

madcap magician

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It’s free market people. And those people can buy whatever they want at whatever price. If I could get x amount of dollars for a widget I would too. That’s what makes America great. It’s almost like there is wealth envy on the forums. Not this forum. I mean alll those other forums out there talking about it. Not this one.

And btw does anyone on this forum know what the TOTAL manufacturing cost is for one of these cards.
 

Dayaks

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It’s free market people. And those people can buy whatever they want at whatever price. If I could get x amount of dollars for a widget I would too. That’s what makes America great. It’s almost like there is wealth envy on the forums. Not this forum. I mean alll those other forums out there talking about it. Not this one.

And btw does anyone on this forum know what the TOTAL manufacturing cost is for one of these cards.

I would LOVE to see a cost breakdown.

As a whole nVidia makes shit margin compared to other industries I’ve seen so I chuckle at some of these posts. I’d love for them to do it for at cost too but... I also like how much they invest into R&D.

At the end of the day it costs the avg American 0.05% of their income to keep a top of the line rig. If this is your hobby that’s cheap.
 

Criticalhitkoala

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Seriously , some of you need to stop defending this price point. Greed is the best description and how about the unsold last gen 300,000 units or whatever that # maybe. Due to you guess it more greed. This card is ok for 4K. Ray tracing not this gen not next gen.
DLSS is a gimmick and as for no competition. I don't remember paying $1200 for the first 3DFX Voodoo card I bought. It is the fastest GPU, but it is not $1200 fast.


Uhm it's a luxury item that no one requires. It makes just as little sense to argue about it also.
 

noko

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I would not rule out some great RT Indie games, get rid of the texture baking, simpler clean scenes, performance maybe good with some great eye candy. I would look there first for real design from the get go for RT.

As for multiple cards, no one really does much testing anymore but comments spring forth without data, if one is a Pascal owner, may be a better viable option is a second used card for you, maybe not. Both AMD and Nvidia scales nice in FarCry 5, Nvidia in Shadow of the Tomb Raider as a start. Now doubling up Turing new pricing scheme does seem daunting.
 

Criticalhitkoala

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I personally dont think the price is to damned high cause you see buying into research. I just applaud the idea that Nvidia has saturated the market enough that you can buy at your preferred price. From $50 to $3000 if you wanna pay it There's a product for it. I truly want amd to compete and sometimes they do, but their product line seems so meh and the cost of the Vega line to performance didn't win me over.

I did get a 980ti when it was new. Thought it was worth it. The 2080ti is too rich for me right now but I'm not gonna bitch that it's to high cause I personally can't afford it right now, cause it's a luxury and has a luxury price.
 

coconutboy

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Kyle, any chance y’all could post a graph of the mainstream card pricing over the same span? It’d be interesting to see how it compares vs the halo products.

I agree with many of the prior comments. I also believe that:
  • Over the next 12-18 months the RTX series is intended to remain slotted above the 1080/1080ti. This means that the RTX series will see very little price reduction. Maybe $50-100 drop after the cards have been out a year.
  • Nvidia will continue using the 1070/80/TIs to combat whatever AMD releases, and adjust prices of those older cards accordingly.
  • Nvidia is smart for making this play now. They are offering developers enticing (proprietary) tools like ray-tracing & dlss. This is important since-
  1. AMD has switched production to TSMC. This will greatly narrow the silicon advantage Nvidia has enjoyed and is a huge threat to Team Green as we near the limits of current lithography tech.
  2. AMD is expected to provide the silicon in the Playstation 5 (and probably Xbox Next, too). A 5nm AMD SoC possibly fabbed by TSMC in MS/Sony consoles? Also a threat to Nvidia’s profits.
  3. Intel has been trying to bring a discrete ray tracing GPU to market for about a decade now. Supposedly they’re getting closer to doing so. Even Intel shareholders will be in disbelief should it actually happen before 2077 (the year, not the game. These are the timeframes Intel works with now. They’re the new IBM).
By making this move now while they have little competition, Nvidia probably has 18-24 months till AMD can respond and they’re well distanced from any impending Playstation5/nextXbox announcement. Nvidia already owns the market at all levels, so why not take a moonshot and release an over-the-top halo product that comes with all sorts of obscene NDA’s and proprietary tech?

It’s also a product lineup I wouldn’t touch unless I was already deeply invested in 4K or VR. Both of those are still too immature and pricey imo. I enjoyed my 65” 4K hdr ks8000, but sold it when I moved. Don’t plan on replacing my ancient 1080p gaming rig till 2019, or maybe even 2020, depending on what new games tickle the upgrade itch. I’m honestly more interested in a Nintendo Switch this Xmas.

Hopefully by fall 2019, there will be a kickass ~$300 card that runs the latest games at a rock solid 4K 60fps with all the shiny, but if not, fuck it. If PC gaming is moving towards an even steeper curve than the historical trend in the graph, I’ll just play older games on old hardware and use the consoles for multiplayer. Fewer cheaters there anyhow.
 
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