The Gamer’s Bill of Rights

pandora's box

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Stardock has released what they believe should be the rights of all gamers.

The Gamer’s Bill of Rights:

1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don’t work with their computers for a full refund.
2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.
3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game’s release.
4. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.
5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will play adequately on that computer.
6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won’t install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their consent.
7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.
8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.
9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.
10. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.

I agree with every single one of these :cool:

http://www.stardock.com/about/newsitem.asp?id=1095
 

sid2.0

n00b
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I saw this the other day... good idea Stardock!!!:D To bad that they all weren't that way...:(
 
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The Gamer’s Bill of Rights: DEBUNKED

1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don’t work with their computers for a full refund.

If you are unable to read system requirements listed on the back of every PC game, then you deserve to be stuck with a game that does not work. Simply put, if you match the system requirements, it will work. If it doesn't, it's an issue on your end.

2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

Games are like art. They are never finished, just simply are released where the artists and creative team was ready to share their labor of love.

3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game’s release.

Unless a bug is preventing you from playing a game, you should expect nothing other than a thank you after a game is released.

4. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.

To prevent piracy, sometimes automatic updaters and download managers are required. If a box says that an internet connection is required to play, then you accept this may be part of the package.

5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will play adequately on that computer.

You should glance at the recommended requirements if you want to adequately play a game on your computer. By the very nature of the word, minimum simply means the game will load and be playable with slowdowns to be expected.

6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won’t install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their consent.

When purchasing a game, it is reasonable to expect that a virus is not included with the software. Aside from harmful unintentional inclusion of such nastiness, you should expect some copyright measures may be taken in the form of a shadowed driver.

7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.

If you can't keep track of and preserve your installation media, it is no fault of the company that sold it to you. If you withdraw $50 at an ATM and accidentally lose it in an old pair of pants, the bank neither has to replace the $50 or even help you look for it.

8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.

Piracy has done immeasurable damage to the software industry, and anyone who disapproves of such behavior should be happy to help make sure others don't get for free what they paid for.

9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.

If the back of the box says it requires an internet connection, you should expect to be connected to the internet when you decide to play.

10. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.

CD/DVD's contain additional media like videos. Even if this content is entirely installed to the hard drive, the CD/DVD itself is used as measure to prevent people from using multiple copies at the same time.
 

devman

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6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won’t install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their consent.

When purchasing a game, it is reasonable to expect that a virus is not included with the software. Aside from harmful unintentional inclusion of such nastiness, you should expect some copyright measures may be taken in the form of a shadowed driver.
I wouldn't have a problem with your counter-point so long as we had full disclosure AND such measures were immediately removed when the product they were protecting is removed. That does not happen now and as such the original point is valid and the counter-point is weak as it is certainly not reasonable to expect installation of anything OTHER than what is said will be installed and the uninstaller for the product does not remove it.

8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.

Piracy has done immeasurable damage to the software industry, and anyone who disapproves of such behavior should be happy to help make sure others don't get for free what they paid for.
Immeasurable isn't the right word, indefinite is. In reality no one has good numbers.

You're other counter points are pretty decent, though we could get in to a nice debate over the the meaning of "minimum" and whether that entails "yeah, it will start" or "yeah you can play the game front to back on minimum settings".
 

Blakestr

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Some of your analogies are not exactly consistent with logic... Allowing me to redownload a game should be a right... Let's face it CDs get damaged. Easier for the gamers who find themselves formatting frequently to just download steam and login... I personally love the whole passive install process...

It's odd you debunked them when it came from a developer, I consider Stardock to be the Valve of 4xE strategy games. You seem to just hate people who come off to you as stupid...I shouldn't Have to pay $50 for a one dollar disc because my little nephew stepped on it playing hide and seek with me...

You would make a bad businessman...the customer is always right, remember? If you don't want to sell umbrellasto the dumbasses who didn't check the weather report in the morning, someone else will.

Furthermore, I can't rent of games like consoles. And demos are unreliable. The fact that you show up two hours after buying the game to return it because it sucks but you can't get the money back. I'm sorry that's a scam.
 

Darth Bobo

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The Gamer’s Bill of Rights: DEBUNKED

1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don’t work with their computers for a full refund.

If you are unable to read system requirements listed on the back of every PC game, then you deserve to be stuck with a game that does not work. Simply put, if you match the system requirements, it will work. If it doesn't, it's an issue on your end.

2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

Games are like art. They are never finished, just simply are released where the artists and creative team was ready to share their labor of love.

3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game’s release.

Unless a bug is preventing you from playing a game, you should expect nothing other than a thank you after a game is released.

4. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.

To prevent piracy, sometimes automatic updaters and download managers are required. If a box says that an internet connection is required to play, then you accept this may be part of the package.

5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will play adequately on that computer.

You should glance at the recommended requirements if you want to adequately play a game on your computer. By the very nature of the word, minimum simply means the game will load and be playable with slowdowns to be expected.

6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won’t install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their consent.

When purchasing a game, it is reasonable to expect that a virus is not included with the software. Aside from harmful unintentional inclusion of such nastiness, you should expect some copyright measures may be taken in the form of a shadowed driver.

7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.

If you can't keep track of and preserve your installation media, it is no fault of the company that sold it to you. If you withdraw $50 at an ATM and accidentally lose it in an old pair of pants, the bank neither has to replace the $50 or even help you look for it.

8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.

Piracy has done immeasurable damage to the software industry, and anyone who disapproves of such behavior should be happy to help make sure others don't get for free what they paid for.

9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.

If the back of the box says it requires an internet connection, you should expect to be connected to the internet when you decide to play.

10. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.

CD/DVD's contain additional media like videos. Even if this content is entirely installed to the hard drive, the CD/DVD itself is used as measure to prevent people from using multiple copies at the same time.
QFT!

Also if "right" 2 is ever fulfilled then "right" 3 is definately void.
 

CantAimWhenDrunk

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 29, 2003
Messages
187
Some of your analogies are not exactly consistent with logic... Allowing me to redownload a game should be a right... Let's face it CDs get damaged. Easier for the gamers who find themselves formatting frequently to just download steam and login... I personally love the whole passive install process...

It's odd you debunked them when it came from a developer, I consider Stardock to be the Valve of 4xE strategy games. You seem to just hate people who come off to you as stupid...I shouldn't Have to pay $50 for a one dollar disc because my little nephew stepped on it playing hide and seek with me...

You would make a bad businessman...the customer is always right, remember? If you don't want to sell umbrellasto the dumbasses who didn't check the weather report in the morning, someone else will.

Furthermore, I can't rent of games like consoles. And demos are unreliable. The fact that you show up two hours after buying the game to return it because it sucks but you can't get the money back. I'm sorry that's a scam.
Yeah, some of those debunks are kind of a stretch.

A couple in particular:

1. An assumption is made that the sole reason that a game does not run correctly is due to insufficient system requirements.

2. 2 points here: 1st, there has been times where the 'artists' may have been pressured to release a title knowing they could have done more fine tuning pre-release. 2nd, maybe not finished, but it damn well be consistently playable at the time of it's release. To suggest gamers don't have a right to just this is silly.

4&6. To suggest that I don't have a right to be told explicitly what is being put on my hard drive when I insert an install DVD is a complete joke.

7. The ATM example is not entirely logical. When you buy a game, you are not buyng the DVD, you are buyng the right to use the software saved on it. Losing the media doesn't change that, especially if the games' developers are hell bent on preventing you from making a physical backup for safer keeping.

9. Who cares what the box says? If I have no internet connection and I have no interest in multiplayer, what's the problem with that?



The bottom line is it's all our fault. We're the ones that keep buying the shit.
 

todlerix

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
2,244
The Gamer’s Bill of Rights: DEBUNKED

1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don’t work with their computers for a full refund.

If you are unable to read system requirements listed on the back of every PC game, then you deserve to be stuck with a game that does not work. Simply put, if you match the system requirements, it will work. If it doesn't, it's an issue on your end.
DE-DEBUNKED

GTA4/Gears of War/Mass Effect

I can't determine if you are the man or if you just like being sodomized by him.
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
Messages
760
The Gamer’s Bill of Rights: REVISED

1. A gamer has the right to purchase or not purchase any game of his choosing.

2. If a gamer disagrees with anything about the way a piece of software is offered to them, they can choose to not use it.

Money talks folks. If you don't like having to be online for a single player game, don't buy the game. Gaming is a luxury and not a right. If you feel like a videogame version of "THE MAN™" is putting you down, go find another hobby and some different products to consume.
 

markt435

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Messages
7,592
The Gamer’s Bill of Rights: REVISED

1. A gamer has the right to purchase or not purchase any game of his choosing.

2. If a gamer disagrees with anything about the way a piece of software is offered to them, they can choose to not use it.

Money talks folks. If you don't like having to be online for a single player game, don't buy the game. Gaming is a luxury and not a right. If you feel like a videogame version of "THE MAN™" is putting you down, go find another hobby and some different products to consume.
gotta agree there. its a privilege not a right. you accept whatever comes with that privilege whether you think its shitty or not. and if you don't like it, well....there is always basketweaving.
 

todlerix

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Messages
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The Gamer’s Bill of Rights: REVISED

1. A gamer has the right to purchase or not purchase any game of his choosing.

2. If a gamer disagrees with anything about the way a piece of software is offered to them, they can choose to not use it.

Money talks folks. If you don't like having to be online for a single player game, don't buy the game. Gaming is a luxury and not a right. If you feel like a videogame version of "THE MAN™" is putting you down, go find another hobby and some different products to consume.
Money talks but it can't change its tune after its changed hands.
 

devman

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The Gamer’s Bill of Rights: REVISED

1. A gamer has the right to purchase or not purchase any game of his choosing.

2. If a gamer disagrees with anything about the way a piece of software is offered to them, they can choose to not use it.

Money talks folks. If you don't like having to be online for a single player game, don't buy the game. Gaming is a luxury and not a right. If you feel like a videogame version of "THE MAN™" is putting you down, go find another hobby and some different products to consume.
I don't think anyone would argue with that so long as we had full disclosure. if I should decide that I do not agree with the EULA that they should take it back for a full refund or put the entire EULA on the box. Uninstall tools that worked would be nice.
 

IdiotCow

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Fact of the matter is that most of your counter-arguments for the bill of rights are broken. When you are defining rights and privileges you do not assume the market base is corrupt.

We have a bill of rights in the USA and they are there to offer essential freedoms to the public. There are criminals in our country who abuse those rights, but we all still have those rights nonetheless.

Any counter argument which states "it has to be this way because there is crime" is not a valid argument. Yes, people copy games illegally. Yes, people use games on more than one machine to a copy. However, when people do this, they are breaking the law and are subject to punishment as defined by the courts. If you punish your valid customers because you are afraid you might lose money to criminals, then you run the risk of losing that customer.

Remember, there is no evidence that shows any amount of cd-checking, activation-requiring, driver-installing, anti-copy-infringement methods have ANY IMPACT WHATSOEVER on piracy. Last time I checked, there isn't a PC game out there that cannot be pirated. Even steam games such as portal and half-life 2 have versions that can be played.

If companies are so paranoid that they are going to ruin or disfigure their own products to prevent copyright infringement, they should invest in methods to track people who make illegal copies. Find ways to target the actual violators, instead of saying we are all potential criminals.
 

spugnor

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Messages
11,220
The Gamer’s Bill of Rights: REVISED

1. A gamer has the right to purchase or not purchase any game of his choosing.

2. If a gamer disagrees with anything about the way a piece of software is offered to them, they can choose to not use it.

Money talks folks. If you don't like having to be online for a single player game, don't buy the game. Gaming is a luxury and not a right. If you feel like a videogame version of "THE MAN™" is putting you down, go find another hobby and some different products to consume.
The problem with these statements is that there is no disclosure. If there is some anti-piracy measure in effect that may effect the workability of the software, it should be disclosed. Otherwise you cannot, in fact, vote with your dollars.

For example, suppose i know that securom has issues with my machine. If the box said securom on the outside, i would be able to NOT buy it. As it is now, you pretty much buy the software and hope it works.

I could line by line counter your counter, but i lack the time. Perhaps later today i will be able to post something more in depth.
 

Master Blaster

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While I do agree with some of these ideas, others are down right idiotic. I won't write it out since others have already spoke on the issue.
 

BladeVenom

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The Gamer’s Bill of Rights: DEBUNKED

1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don’t work with their computers for a full refund.

If you are unable to read system requirements listed on the back of every PC game, then you deserve to be stuck with a game that does not work. Simply put, if you match the system requirements, it will work. If it doesn't, it's an issue on your end.
Nonsense!

Minimum system requirements listed on many games aren't what I'd call running it, at least not running it a playable framerate.

Lots of games come out broken and need a patch to work. That's all on their end.

How many times have people had problems with DRM keeping a game from working. Not only is that the publishers fault, many times they refuse to even fix the problem.
 

IdiotCow

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Nonsense!

Minimum system requirements listed on many games aren't what I'd call running it, at least not running it a playable framerate.

Lots of games come out broken and need a patch to work. That's all on their end.

How many times have people had problems with DRM keeping a game from working. Not only is that the publishers fault, many times they refuse to even fix the problem.
For an example see assassins creed. I actually own 3 copies of this game (bought it for 360, then for PC, and then it came with my new video card)

Both copies of the PC version have errors finding the dvd, which must be in the drive to play the game. The only way for me to play this game that I have two legitimate licenses for (PC version), is to use a 3rd party nocd fix.
 
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For an example see assassins creed. I actually own 3 copies of this game (bought it for 360, then for PC, and then it came with my new video card)

Both copies of the PC version have errors finding the dvd, which must be in the drive to play the game. The only way for me to play this game that I have two legitimate licenses for (PC version), is to use a 3rd party nocd fix.
Bad media or bad DVD-ROM drive. Problem is on your end.
 

IdiotCow

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actually its a known issue with AC and SATA DVD drives and the copyright protection on the game. As my drive is a sony blu-ray drive it is SATA only, and I have issues running the game. Note that the drive is brand new and has NO problems running ANYTHING else.

Not a problem on my end, but in fact the publishers fault. Even if it WAS bad media (2 brand new scratchless discs so if it were it would still be a production error), I should still be able to play the game as I am paying for a license to run the game and not for the physical collection of 1's and 0's.

EDIT: Also, the game installs and updates just fine, it just cant for some reason find the DVD after it's all finished. This is a clear sign that the CRC, MD5, or whatever the game uses to authenticate the disc - is broken.
 

GreenMonkey

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EDIT: Also, the game installs and updates just fine, it just cant for some reason find the DVD after it's all finished. This is a clear sign that the CRC, MD5, or whatever the game uses to authenticate the disc - is broken.
I had issues like this with Civ IV on release week. About 2 hours of googling led me to the solution that worked: I had to go to the safedisc website and update my safedisc copy protection software. :rolleyes: Worked perfectly after.

Stardock is the only company I will buy downloadable / digital games from. Because they do it the right way, without any nasty DRM. I don't like their no-reselling rule very much (no updates from their site for used copies) but that's better than copy protection that treats you like a criminal in exchange for paying for the game.
 

todlerix

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For an example see assassins creed. I actually own 3 copies of this game (bought it for 360, then for PC, and then it came with my new video card)

Both copies of the PC version have errors finding the dvd, which must be in the drive to play the game. The only way for me to play this game that I have two legitimate licenses for (PC version), is to use a 3rd party nocd fix.
Bad media or bad DVD-ROM drive. Problem is on your end.
actually its a known issue with AC and SATA DVD drives and the copyright protection on the game. As my drive is a sony blu-ray drive it is SATA only, and I have issues running the game. Note that the drive is brand new and has NO problems running ANYTHING else.

Not a problem on my end, but in fact the publishers fault. Even if it WAS bad media (2 brand new scratchless discs so if it were it would still be a production error), I should still be able to play the game as I am paying for a license to run the game and not for the physical collection of 1's and 0's.

EDIT: Also, the game installs and updates just fine, it just cant for some reason find the DVD after it's all finished. This is a clear sign that the CRC, MD5, or whatever the game uses to authenticate the disc - is broken.
I fail to see how manufacturing or coding errors are the consumers problem.
STALKER
Assasin's Creed
Gears of War

There's a general consensus that these games came to the market broken. :rolleyes:

It's not always the consumers fault.

The DigitalEmperor guy is a complete twat don't even bother.
 

prodigee

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i totally agree with the bill of rights i havent read all the posts in this thread just that and i totally agree
 

mellojoe

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stupid...I shouldn't Have to pay $50 for a one dollar disc because my little nephew stepped on it playing hide and seek with me...
That's the way of the world, my friend.

If your little brother knocks your PC off the table and it crashes to the floor, you won't get a free one. You'll have to pay the $$$ for a new one. If your little brother knocks your glass off the table and it crashes to the floor, you'll have to pay the $5 for a new glass. If your little brother knocks your sister's nail polish off and it crashes to the floor, she's going to have to pay $3 for a $0.35 new bottle.

If you buy something, it is your responsibility to keep it safe. If it gets damaged, that is your fault, not the fault of the manufacturer, and therefore is your responsibility to replace it.
 

Frostex

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That's the way of the world, my friend.

If your little brother knocks your PC off the table and it crashes to the floor, you won't get a free one. You'll have to pay the $$$ for a new one. If your little brother knocks your glass off the table and it crashes to the floor, you'll have to pay the $5 for a new glass. If your little brother knocks your sister's nail polish off and it crashes to the floor, she's going to have to pay $3 for a $0.35 new bottle.

If you buy something, it is your responsibility to keep it safe. If it gets damaged, that is your fault, not the fault of the manufacturer, and therefore is your responsibility to replace it.
This nicely highlights the issues most people have differentiating software licences from physical goods, it's the same reason why people falsely equate piracy (downloading software/media) to "stealing".

When you buy a game you're buying 1 or 2 things, traditionally you buy a physical copy of the media, typically not expensive to produce and distribute. And you're also paying for the licence to use a copy of that software. With digital distribution you don't even have the physical media.

If you smash your CD by accident then you don't lose the rights over your licence, that still exists, you just dont have the media to install from anymore.

I think the point being made is that replacement media should be available at cheaper costs sicne you're replacing the media and not the licence to use it. And in fact its not unheard of, some publishers will send you replacement discs for a small fee if you provide proof of purchase.

You could in fact legally download an image of game and burn that to disc again if you legally own a licence for the game, that would be equivelent to borrowing a friends disc and installing the game with your own key.
 

SixtyWattMan

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If you need another DVD for your game the best way to get it to get and ISO off torrents. If your broke the original then you need to be more careful. If the DVD was screwed when you got it like assassins creed and such then whoever fucked the DVD up needs to replace it free of charge no questions asked.
 
A

altcon

Guest
I actually like games as they are and prefer to buy via Steam and such, saves all the nasty CD/DVD wear and tear.
Aside from that I think anti-piracy measures are a bad joke on gamers who pay for games, is there any game that has copy protection that hasn't had it hacked?
Not to my knowledge, so that means only paying suckers like myself have to deal with "anti-piracy" measures. Grow up already and learn from Bethesda (although I do not like keeping the DVD in).
 

IdiotCow

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Messages
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I actually like games as they are and prefer to buy via Steam and such, saves all the nasty CD/DVD wear and tear.
Aside from that I think anti-piracy measures are a bad joke on gamers who pay for games, is there any game that has copy protection that hasn't had it hacked?
Not to my knowledge, so that means only paying suckers like myself have to deal with "anti-piracy" measures. Grow up already and learn from Bethesda (although I do not like keeping the DVD in).
This is exactly the point, the honest gamers are the only ones who really get screwed right now.

I agree steam is awesome, especially when I get hit with a bout of insomnia and really need a new game and can't get to a store at 1am to pick up something. But steam is up front about how it operates and that you need to have a connection to use the system.

The big problem is with the systems that hide drivers, or are overzealous in their attempts to control their media. The whole limited activations, and then having to CALL to get your game to run? Are they going to refund my cell minutes? I don't have a land line, so they are costing me MORE money, and the hackers don't have to worry. (or again, the issue I have with assassins creed)

And as for the broken DVD, the guys are right about the license - but wrong about the ISO. It is still illegal to share an unauthorized copy of the media... if you can borrow a disk, you can make your own archival copy - but you can't legally grab someone else's. You can contact the distributor and they might work something out with you, but sharing the media is still considered a no-no.
 

Chombo

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The Gamer’s Bill of Rights: DEBUNKED.
8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.

Piracy has done immeasurable damage to the software industry, and anyone who disapproves of such behavior should be happy to help make sure others don't get for free what they paid for.
The inherent problem with all of your "debunking" is that since you do not grant us that right (that we are not criminals) which most of the others hang off of you can just assume that we deserve no rights. Once you reach that decision you don't have to grant us anything.

2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

Games are like art. They are never finished, just simply are released where the artists and creative team was ready to share their labor of love.
Games and developers are neither art nor artists. Games are created to generate profit for the developing/production company. Once the purpose of games is about generating profit instead of sharing your artistic vision, you don't get to call it art.

If we were talking about games created by Joe in his basement because he has an idea that he wants to share with the world, whether he makes money or not. That would be art.


4. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.

To prevent piracy, sometimes automatic updaters and download managers are required. If a box says that an internet connection is required to play, then you accept this may be part of the package.

9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.

If the back of the box says it requires an internet connection, you should expect to be connected to the internet when you decide to play.
The only people it really screws are the people with little to no internet access, and thus no real way to pirate.
 

mellojoe

Gawd
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
703
Games and developers are neither art nor artists. Games are created to generate profit for the developing/production company. Once the purpose of games is about generating profit instead of sharing your artistic vision, you don't get to call it art.

If we were talking about games created by Joe in his basement because he has an idea that he wants to share with the world, whether he makes money or not. That would be art.
Why was the Mona Lisa created? because DaVinci was commissioned (paid) for a painting by a wealthy family for their new home
Why was the Sistine Chapel so revered? because the Pope paid Michelangelo to paint it.
Why was the statue of David creatied? because Michelangelo was comissioned (paid) to create it
Why did Ravel compose Bolero? because a dancer commissioned (paid) him to
Why did Tchaikovsky compose 1812 Overature? because he was paid to commerate the French defeat
Why do artists create art? So they don't have to get real jobs.

I'm sorry. Just because art is made for profit does NOT make it non-art. These game creators ARE artists, they just found ways to support their families through their art.
 

IdiotCow

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
307
Why was the Mona Lisa created? because DaVinci was commissioned (paid) for a painting by a wealthy family for their new home
Why was the Sistine Chapel so revered? because the Pope paid Michelangelo to paint it.
Why was the statue of David creatied? because Michelangelo was comissioned (paid) to create it
Why did Ravel compose Bolero? because a dancer commissioned (paid) him to
Why did Tchaikovsky compose 1812 Overature? because he was paid to commerate the French defeat
Why do artists create art? So they don't have to get real jobs.

I'm sorry. Just because art is made for profit does NOT make it non-art. These game creators ARE artists, they just found ways to support their families through their art.
While it is true that art is almost always bought/paid for... games being broken because they are released EARLY (aka, hurried along to get cash faster, or to cut losses)

Consider KOTOR II - a game that could have been amazing, but was rushed along and tons of content/plot was left out. Because of this, a lot of gamers were irritated because they paid for a full game, and got something that was slapped together at the last minute to get it out the door. It was a cash grab. Maybe games are art, but any art that is pushed out the door before it's polished is CRAP ART.
 

RadXge

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
2,779
6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won’t install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their consent.
Without their consent?
Who would agree to install harmful software?
 

veterator

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 26, 2005
Messages
1,909
Why was the Mona Lisa created? because DaVinci was commissioned (paid) for a painting by a wealthy family for their new home
Why was the Sistine Chapel so revered? because the Pope paid Michelangelo to paint it.
Why was the statue of David creatied? because Michelangelo was comissioned (paid) to create it
Why did Ravel compose Bolero? because a dancer commissioned (paid) him to
Why did Tchaikovsky compose 1812 Overature? because he was paid to commerate the French defeat
Why do artists create art? So they don't have to get real jobs.

I'm sorry. Just because art is made for profit does NOT make it non-art. These game creators ARE artists, they just found ways to support their families through their art.
Dunno I'd equate games more to something that can be easily mass produced and reproduced. So........Magazine covers, posters, newspapers, comic books, music. Of course most of those listed items have long since turned their "art" into real jobs via art departments, where the art monkeys do what they are told.

The thing games need above all else is a lemon law similar to vehicles, because while most vehicles work flawlessly for years, shit happens during assembly/creation that makes certain vehicles non-functional. If I have a DVD movie that won't play in my DVD player, it'll get replaced. If it still doesn't work, it'll get refunded.
 

tdisen

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 8, 2004
Messages
150
Indeed. Acts like a ringer. Would not be the first time an industry insider posted in here stirring things up.
He doesn't sound like a ringer to me, and I can't imagine any reason for an industry insider to defend the kind of behavior that this bill of rights addresses. However, I think the essential problem that this Bill of Rights attempts to target is the disconnect between business and gamers. I think Stardock recognizes the core issues many PC gamers have with the platform and actually work to correct them. This isn't simply Brad Wardell talking out of his ass about some PC gaming utopia. Stardock actually practices every single item on this list, and holy shit, they are proving to be a massively successful company.

So, I don't really know what this DigitalEmperor guy's issue is. This is a good thing for just about everyone involved. Sounds like a bit of battered spouse syndrome if you ask me.
 

exe163

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
1,366
These rules are addressing legit vs pirating games. Most if not all can be avoid by pirating, why should we pay for something inferior when the "free" version offers more? These are problems in the industry right now.
 

spugnor

[H]F Junkie
Joined
May 2, 2001
Messages
11,220
So, I don't really know what this DigitalEmperor guy's issue is. This is a good thing for just about everyone involved. Sounds like a bit of battered spouse syndrome if you ask me.
Hehe. Note that i never actually said he was, just that he was acting like one.

That being said, as long as people keep it civil, they can say whatever they want. This is a discussion board, after all. And if he thinks things are all sweetness and light, good for him. Personally, i am tired of getting bent over all the time by game publishers.

I have not pirated a game since i was in college, and that was a loooong looong time ago (think apple II time frame). So it's very frustrating when i have to deal with broken DRM that does not effect people pirating the game.
 

bonsai

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
1,282
4. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.
Isn't this exactly what Steam does? One of the best and most successful game and content distribution systems ever...
 

devman

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 3, 2005
Messages
2,400
Isn't this exactly what Steam does? One of the best and most successful game and content distribution systems ever...
I actually don't mind if Steam does it because they execute it well and it is a many to one relationship of games to steam. I will have a problem if I every single game has there own flavor of Steam that is forced upon me though, (I'm looking at you EA Link)
 
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