The future of gaming; digital, and beyond. What do we really own? Backwards compatibility?

[zamardii12]

So, as I have read elsewhere online that when you buy digital games whether for Xbox, Playstation, or Nintendo that you don't really "own" the game. I don't remember the technical term behind this, but I am sure it's written in the license agreement that we all agree to without reading with every game. My question more has to do with the future, and Quantum Break for Xbox is what got me thinking thinking about this since Quantum Break's live-action cut-scenes are not stored on the disc or on the console when installing, but rather they're streamed from Microsoft. Which Microsoft if it stopped existing, or if they just decided to stop spending money on having those resources available to stream that content, we would lose out on a significant portion of the game's narrative.

Maybe I am not formulating my thoughts correctly, but what I am trying to get it is that on my PC I can still play VERY old games. If I want to play VERY old games on consoles I HAVE to have the hardware to be able to play it (for most of the older titles). It's nice that Microsoft and Sony are making strides towards emulating the older titles, but at the rate they are going they will never emulate their entire library of games and I am sure that is not their goal either. Sony has a streaming service that allows you to stream an enormous amount of PS3 games, and Xbox One at least has compatibility for a decent amount of 360 and original Xbox games. But again, these are all for the most part digital-only and in Sony's case reliant on a streaming service that could be discontinued as soon as Sony stops making money from it.

So, what will happen with say PS4 and Xbox One games in the future? Since they are all x86-based consoles and moved away from the Power PC architecture, they are both essentially gaming-only computers. And with the advent of mid-console-life refreshes with the Xbox One X and the PS4 Pro, will we stop seeing numbered videogame consoles? I mean think of the iPads... they stopped numbering them iPad 2, iPad 3, and so-on after the 4 I think and now they are just identified as "iPad (2017)" or whatever year they came out. Is it possible we won't see a PS5? Instead it will just be listed as the "Playstation (2022)" or whatever. I guess I am just thinking out-loud with the Xbox One X, and PS4 Pro, the console game has changed forever. I find myself upgrading my console to play my existing games which I have never done before; I used to upgrade my PC to play the latest games at highest graphics but I have no moved from Xbox One, to Xbox One S, to Xbox One X. I never used to do this in the past, because consoles only used to be redesigned every few years so they are smaller and probably cheaper to make and not b/c there is a added advantage. I'd only buy the same console twice if my original one went bad. Digital games are more common than ever, and with more PC-like specifications in consoles it seems like perhaps we are past "generational" console gaming, but rather just a continuing race to increase performance at the best price.

What do you all think?

 

[Domingo]

Can't say I'm very concerned about losing access to older games. Sure it's possible, but it's just not something I really care about. Just about every game I've ever cared about has either been remade, re-released, re-bundled, or remastered multiple times. If not, I can't think of any that can't still be purchased or emulated. Many can even be played in a web browser...which sounds almost absurd thinking about how cutting edge they were upon release. If anything is worth salvaging, I have faith they will be in in 99.5% of cases.

I absolutely hate the console refreshes. I really, really hope that's a one off idea. No clue what sales are like, but I've heard almost nothing (from fans of either) that leads me to believe they're a big hit. Improvements are minor at best because developers are afraid to alienate their audience. It feels like Sony and MS probably are too since there are no exclusives. It feels like someone would truly take a chance on really pushing the limits with one or the other if it was really worthwhile.

In terms of the future of gaming, I'm a believer in streaming. It has gotten better and better and it isn't that far off from being a legit alternative to having a gaming PC. Internet connections speeds are basically the limiting factor, but I'm still amazed how quickly "broadband" became standard for most people in the US. Even rural areas. Everyone has a horror story or two about areas that don't have it, but I bet you also know 10x more people that do. As technologies like superfast wireless see the light of day, we could see a full-on sea change in that area sooner than later. Not soon enough to make an Xbox Two or PS5 unnecessary, but probably the gen after that (10-12 years). I'm sure they'll find ways to keep their brands alive and exclusive, but that type of setup could keep us from having to buy a full-on new console as often. Ditto with PC's. You could essentially play anything on anything as long as the service allowed it. They'll likely just monetize access to it instead.

 

[chenw]

Internet's greatest weakness is stability, congestion and data caps.

That's why I am adamant against streaming, because it places something that I enjoy doing outside of my control. I cannot control when my internet goes down because of a server crash, or if my data goes over the cap (though I don't have a cap, there are plenty on these forums that do), or if the time of day gets internet congestion.

Sometimes it gets so bad that I can't even watch youtube video properly. Even though lag is getting better and better, unless someone 'fixes' the internet in that everyone in the pipeline have 100% guarentee that they will get all the bandwidth they are paying for at all times, I will not use streaming, I don't want to fight against the frustration of not enjoying my downtime because everyone else is so no one gets it.

Also, I live in a remote enough country that unless we have a dedicated local server farm, I do not expect my ping to be better than 150ms, which, for a single player game, it's unacceptable.

For the general masses, sure, but I will use local dedicated machines for as long as possible. Streaming has far too many kinks to fixed, assuming they are fixable.

With regards to console refreshes, they are a cluster fuck because they are designed, from the get go, to be open to cluster fucks, IE it requires developer's active effort in order for games to take advantage of that extra hardware, which the PC do not suffer because the customisable detail options, we can take advantage of any hardware upgrades, unless they were already maxed out. This is why I didn't buy PS4 or PS4 Pro, because I wouldn't buy a PS4 knowing PS4 Pro exists, but PS4 Pro scene is one giant cluster fuck, so I haven't been able to convince myself to buy one either.

With regards to backwards compatibility, old undiscovered games is exactly why I prefer PC over any other console platform because those platforms live and die by the hardware, literally. If the last console for a previous gen dies, then all games die with it without emulation, while PC games have plenty of tools to give those games a fighting chance to be played again (See DosBox as example), consoles are usually shit outta luck, though Nintendo generally have been better than anyone else in this regard. But ultimately it may not affect me much because I don't play old games, but it's still a consideration of mine. This is actually why I splurged on 3DS even though I got Switch as I can play 2~3 generations of games on native hardware, but this could be end of line for the DS line.

 

[M76]

As a PC gamer this doesn't affect me much at present. But it is still a concern. I don't like buying games that require always online access, or even online access for activation. And that will probably not change even if that practice becomes commonplace by publishers.

I've already got burnt by this and one lesson was enough for me, thanks. One of my favorite driving games has this problem: Test Drive Unlimited. Servers were shut down ages ago, and the only way to start the game now is by using nocd cracks that remove activation from it, regardless of the fact that I purchased the game day one from a retail store. And what's even worse there is absolutely no way to activate the car expansion pack for it, which I also purchased digitally from ATARI legitimately.

As for streaming games, that is completely out of the question for me. I might be the odd one out but I refuse to stream video as well. I feel the only thing really worth paying for is the content that I can access even if the electric company cuts my internet cable (happened twice already).
That doesn't mean I don't subscribe to streaming sites, but I only subscribe to sites I'm able to rip the stream from and save it for offline viewing. Obviously that won't work with games. So if that's the future of gaming that's a future I don't want to take part in.

Can't say I'm very concerned about losing access to older games. Sure it's possible, but it's just not something I really care about. Just about every game I've ever cared about has either been remade, re-released, re-bundled, or remastered multiple times. If not, I can't think of any that can't still be purchased or emulated. Many can even be played in a web browser...which sounds almost absurd thinking about how cutting edge they were upon release. If anything is worth salvaging, I have faith they will be in in 99.5% of cases.

You either play very new games, or are very lucky with the games you play. Many of my old favorite games are completely unplayable by now, even re-releases. Most of these re-releases are just money grabs they don't really update the games to current specs. And I don't mean updating graphics just getting it to work on modern computers.

I absolutely hate the console refreshes. I really, really hope that's a one off idea. No clue what sales are like, but I've heard almost nothing (from fans of either) that leads me to believe they're a big hit. Improvements are minor at best because developers are afraid to alienate their audience. It feels like Sony and MS probably are too since there are no exclusives. It feels like someone would truly take a chance on really pushing the limits with one or the other if it was really worthwhile.

I think they are a good thing, a very good thing in fact. This way there is room for improvement within the same generation of consoles. They can move forward instead of being limited by the hardware. Which thanks to cross platform development also took it's toll on PC versions. They don't have to alienate their audience just add optional improvements, larger textures and higher res rendering are great. The PS4 PRO almost feels like a PC experience, except for that darned controller. And honestly I don't think consoles are worth buying at release. The only reason I keep them around are exclusives, and at least by the refresh comes out there are enough exclusives to make the investment worthwhile. I just purchased a PS4 PRO and I'd be hard pressed to name even 10 games that I'd be marginally interested in.

 

[Domingo]

You either play very new games, or are very lucky with the games you play. Many of my old favorite games are completely unplayable by now, even re-releases. Most of these re-releases are just money grabs they don't really update the games to current specs. And I don't mean updating graphics just getting it to work on modern computers.

What kinds of games are you playing? I can emulate every console that isn't still on the shelf, so that's most of it. Ditto with arcade games going all the way back to the golden age of coin ops. In most instances, the emulators themselves improve the look of those games. With classic PC games I've never had an issue with DOSbox, even though I admittedly don't really play much from the DOS era. The type of games I liked from that era (Gabriel Knight and old D&D games) don't exactly hold up particularly well. The stuff I loved from the 90's seems to still work as long as it's from Win95 forward. Faves like Grim Fandango and Baldur's Gate got full-on modern re-releases. Some older Windows based games will work but have major resolution issues that certainly hamper them. Not sure what can be done about that. Using community tools to make text bigger and trick your monitor into showing certain borderline unsupported resolutions seems to be an option for the ones I've tried. Old low-res FMV can't really be "fixed" without a remaster of some sort. They were ugly back then, we were just happy with 300x200.

As far as the console refreshes go, the problem with them is that they aren't making any real improvements in most cases. The list of games that are improved by them are tiny and they're almost all just upscaled to 4K. I went from a normal PS4 to a PS4 pro and I'd call the difference pretty minimal in most instances. With the majority of my library there's no difference at all. The Xbox One X's horsepower feels more significant, but it's still limited to certain games. Developers are scared to death to add improvements to most multi-platform games or they'll face the backlash of the owners of the launch consoles, which are the vast majority of owners. It would be one thing if they had a trade-in program or some kind of 32X'ish way to add functionality, but as of now it's $400-500 for a minor incremental improvement for a small number of games. I'd rather they skip that and call these PS5/X2 "with backward compatibility" so devs can actually uncork some of their horsepower.

 

[M76]

What kinds of games are you playing? I can emulate every console that isn't still on the shelf, so that's most of it. Ditto with arcade games going all the way back to the golden age of coin ops. In most instances, the emulators themselves improve the look of those games. With classic PC games I've never had an issue with DOSbox, even though I admittedly don't really play much from the DOS era. The type of games I liked from that era (Gabriel Knight and old D&D games) don't exactly hold up particularly well. The stuff I loved from the 90's seems to still work as long as it's from Win95 forward. Faves like Grim Fandango and Baldur's Gate got full-on modern re-releases. Some older Windows based games will work but have major resolution issues that certainly hamper them. Not sure what can be done about that. Using community tools to make text bigger and trick your monitor into showing certain borderline unsupported resolutions seems to be an option for the ones I've tried. Old low-res FMV can't really be "fixed" without a remaster of some sort. They were ugly back then, we were just happy with 300x200.

Emulation is another thing, that usually works. I played a lot of games using scummvm even on my symbian smartphone before smartphones became cool. My problem lies with older PC titles, that are not old enough for dosbox, Like Command and Conquer / Red Alert, I own both re-releases the first decade version and the ultimate edition on origin, and they are exactly the same and crash on modern computers. Generals also doesn't work correctly on anything newer than XP. Also there is the aforementioned TDU, X-Wing Alliance, X-Wing Collectors series, to name a few games I have trouble running.

As far as the console refreshes go, the problem with them is that they aren't making any real improvements in most cases. The list of games that are improved by them are tiny and they're almost all just upscaled to 4K. I went from a normal PS4 to a PS4 pro and I'd call the difference pretty minimal in most instances. With the majority of my library there's no difference at all. The Xbox One X's horsepower feels more significant, but it's still limited to certain games. Developers are scared to death to add improvements to most multi-platform games or they'll face the backlash of the owners of the launch consoles, which are the vast majority of owners. It would be one thing if they had a trade-in program or some kind of 32X'ish way to add functionality, but as of now it's $400-500 for a minor incremental improvement for a small number of games. I'd rather they skip that and call these PS5/X2 "with backward compatibility" so devs can actually uncork some of their horsepower.

I'm not talking about old games, I'm talking about games that are released now with the PS4 Pro in mind, of course the old ones don't get more than an upscale at best.