The Fight over Star Citizen’s Production Delay Is Getting Dirty

chaos4u said:
I dont know where you have been over the last several years , but pc gaming had pretty much stagnated to the point where we was getting nothing more than rehashed battlefield call of duty and wow clones over and over gain .

then crowd funding entered the scene and let the players choose what they wanted published . while you sit there and state that space sims were not dead, they were. no major publisher was putting any money into space sims. and only 4 or 5 space rts games were being made. so yeah space sims were dead.

with crowd funding more and more players started putting money into games they wanted to play, one of these genres was the space sim.

along came chris roberts (who you despise obviously) selling a vision for a epic space sim and guess what its pc only . this was done all around the time when the pc is dead mantra was being sung from the gaming press and online media.

so chris came out swinging with a vision of a proper pc game doing what pc games should be doing pushing the envelope .... Guess what? he hit a home run, the pc gamers loved him for it, and fully backed his vision, because the ideology behind star citizen is what pc gamers want in a modern pc game.


Yeah, you can sit there and type away on how ol chris roberts Victimized poor ol Microsoft into buying digital anvil ... but its not going to play on any sympathetic ears. Microsoft has done their share of damage through out the pc gaming industry shutting down studios, destroying visions, and disenfranchising gaming communities with their mislead and baffling vision for the industry.

You can further try and back it up on how movie investors was also taken in by him but thats not gonna fly as these entities were not some doe eyed tenderfoots , dont try and make the entertainment industry investors out as some unknowing victim these people are well aware of the risks involved in backing projects, they do so willingly and knowingly.

While chris roberts may be a dreamer its people like him that we need to push the envelope, to dream big, and create new IPs because there is very few in this industry, hell economy even, who are allowed to dream. Fewer yet empowered to even attempt to create their dreams.

You can stand your hate box and preach all you want because, I DONT CARE if star citizen does or does not ever get made. I believe in the dreamers and the content creators, i want new and original stuff that pushes the envelope and brings new experiences to me. I will back those who present them , for as far as i am concerned star citizen has already accomplished more than most published games of this time.

You can willfully ignore that statement all you want, but star citizen is more than just a game to some it is an idea that proves the industry wrong. while some are ok with call of duty 15, battleshmuck 8, and i wanna be a wow 2. and others would rather crucify people with dreams and place upon alters tyrants with their spread sheets and draconian pragmatics.

Star citizen has demonstrated there is a desire for more, and that there is money to be made for those, up to meeting that challenge. THIS is why star citizen is a success, because it proved the haters and the industry wrong . and this is why we keep getting all the hate pieces and needless over analyzing of robert's past to support erroneous accusations and to try and support terrible

arguments that some how Microsoft was a victim in a game studio purchase. because these people have to keep reaching further and further for items that they can pervert into lies in hopes that they can crash and destroy more peoples dreams.

Thats what this all boils down to, is dreams.... because at its simplest form, this is nothing more than a kid playing in a sand box building his castle (star citizens backers) and the hate filled bully coming to kick over. (star citizen haters) . it always surprises me how much hate there is in this world.
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No Space SIMS..... Eve was around long before Roberts SC spiel. It gets constant updates... and it will be around long after Roberts goes away. (EVE is also a much better game then SC is shooting to be)

Elite Dangerous also says hello... it was in development before SC. They also got a small bit of crowd funding to help them get over the finish line. Again shipping and they will be releasing new content well after SC dies.

As for MS... sure I hate them as well. Not like I was crying when they got stung by Roberts at the time... they where trying to buy up and steer the industry back then. :) The point is simple Roberts took them for a ride and EVERYONE in the industry knows it.... so do you really think any large publisher run by MS contemporaries would be suckered again ? If you think Roberts hasn't been shopping Cloud Imp for a sale your a fool. He was never serious about shipping anything real that should be clear... his end game has always been to drag it out as long as possible and then sell it, or fold it. Selling it is the best face save option possible and he has done EXACTLY that before more then once, I really don't get how people can't see that. I mean if a guy runs multiple casinos with investors cash burning it on big huge signs with his name on them that can be seen from space until he is forced to claim bankruptcy multiple times.... its called a pattern.

As for hate... na I love everyone, which is why it pains me to see so many of you taken by folks like Roberts. He can burn the negative Karma off in the next life. lmao
 
M76 said:
Do you really think it's a good idea to leave this kind of decisions to the clueless people who have zero knowledge about game development?
It's irrelevant what people voted on a stupid poll, this kind of poll never should've been made in the first place. But it serves as perfect self justification now.
Click to expand...
Well considering the poll was voted on by backers of the project it should be considered valid.

M76 said:
I'm beginning to suspect that they weren't incompetent at all, but made this their business model deliberately after the initial campaign has shown that people are willing to pay for concepts.
Drag out development for as long as possible, while reaping in the donations, and create as much fake content with the least possible effort as humanly possible. Concepts doesn't cost that much after all.
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That looks to be speculation on your part and I'm only attempting to answer with facts.

M76 said:
I just wanted a game, but here we are five years later, no game in sight, a ton of concept art, a weak pre-alpha demo, that is representative of a project in very early development only and nothing else to show for the truck loads of money thrown at them.
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Most AAA games take 6-7 years of closed development So far it's been just about 5 years and I'm including the time to build a company with developers in that time frame.
A playable alpha is available to all backers with FPS Star Marine, Arena Commander ship play and a test multiplayer environment the persistent Universe.
Yes it has bugs as would be expected in an alpha and for a project that is not feature complete.

nilepez said:
Shouldn't a feature that was promised for the release 3 years ago be done? Shouldn't new features come AFTER you've gotten the original stuff done?
Click to expand...
Regarding "The tablet companion goal was at $5,000,000 and indeed is still an item to come"
The stretch goals have no specific order of development or completion dates set in stone, other than a requirement that they eventually are done.
Many of the stretch goals have been met and added to the alpha.

nilepez said:
I loved WC. I had great hopes for this game (but I don't pre-order games, so I sure as hell won't fund the development of one), but I can all but guarantee you that it won't be out 3 years from now. Year after year I read how it's coming and every year it's wait till next year.
It's your money so if you're happy with a never ending Alpha, cool, but we see the same defenders every year and we see no sign of release. If I put money in this and I could get a refund, I'd get it now before it's too late.
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Not attempting to blindly defend the project as it does have issues with communication to backers and setting dates and deadlines that are not meet or achieved.
It's a personal choice weather to back an alpha game.
If people are not ok with the time from of development and progress it's something to consider.
 
nightrider said:
Most AAA games take 6-7 years of closed development So far it's been just about 5 years and I'm including the time to build a company with developers in that time frame.
A playable alpha is available to all backers with FPS Star Marine, Arena Commander ship play and a test multiplayer environment the persistent Universe.
Yes it has bugs as would be expected in an alpha and for a project that is not feature complete.
Click to expand...

I just want to drop by to KILL a HUGE fucking misrepresentation.

AAA titles take 18-36 months to develop >.<

There are exceptions... which are always due to one of three possible issues;
1) huge game with NEW ENGINE development involved
2) a publisher that is not in a rush... and are "stretching" funds. Some times it is cheaper (up to 2x cheaper) to fund a 10 man project for 5 years then a 50 man project for 2.
3) mismanagement

In Roberts case it is not a new engine issue... as they are using Cry for client side 3D and Amazon for Server side network code.

In Roberts case its not a matter of hiring a small team for longer to save cash.

In Roberts case there is only one possible answer left.
 
Not a recent graphic but representative of the time in development.

.
vdOpS8r.jpg
 
You should have shown that chart to Chris Roberts before he said the game was going to be completed by 2014, then '15, then '16, then '17.....

He just doesn't understand Game Development.
 
nightrider said:
Well considering the poll was voted on by backers of the project it should be considered valid.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying it's not valid. You can ask ten thousand carpenters how to perform hearth surgery, and they can all give the same answer with overwhelming majority, you still wouldn't want it to be done based on their instructions on you.
That looks to be speculation on your part and I'm only attempting to answer with facts.
Click to expand...
That's rich in a situation where the facts are only available to the people in the inner circles of CIG, who are under an arm and a leg NDAs.

Most AAA games take 6-7 years of closed development So far it's been just about 5 years and I'm including the time to build a company with developers in that time frame.
Click to expand...
As someone else pointed out already that's not true. 6-7 years is roughly twice than the average development cycle of an AAA game. If we don't want to take DNF as the metric. But I guess 2 years from now you'd say AAA games takes 8-10 years to develop, so far it was only 7.

A playable alpha is available to all backers with FPS Star Marine, Arena Commander ship play and a test multiplayer environment the persistent Universe.
Yes it has bugs as would be expected in an alpha and for a project that is not feature complete.
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If it wasn't clear until now you're talking to a backer, who has seen the so called alpha. Who also happens to have some insider knowledge on development as early in my career I worked in game dev, and some of my friends still do.
And I'm telling you that the state of the "alpha" is representative of what a smaller dev team could throw together in 4-6 months with an SDK. But let's be generous let's say it's 1 year. It's still shameful that this is all they can show after 5 years.
 
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Not many of those projects where spun up to 100% from the go. They started as small internal projects.... even titles on that list where only in real full bore development for 2-3 years.

No Blizzard didn't take 7 years to make star craft II. A project was started and a bit of art was created... when Bliz put a real team on it it shipped 2 years later. TOR started out as a different game and BIO did a pivot when Lucas wanted to hire them to fill the MMO spot when they closed galaxies. They had a hard date to hit and simply retooled a project already in the works.

My point being the games on that list are exceptions... there are always exceptions. They always have a story though... everyone of those projects listed are either projects where developers took time with a smaller initial team to save money. Developed new engines... or had management issues. Most AAA titles get turned out in 2-3 years.

Roberts has had 5 years of HARD spending. NO developer anywhere does 5 years of hard spending. As I pointed out games that tend to take more then 3 years have small teams for most of if not all of the development phase. Real game developers sometimes conclude that is the best way to make a game... its often true with the less cookie cutter type games. If it takes real talent to pull off a game with lots of new ideas / tech ect... a small talented team over a longer period is both a better and cheaper option.
 
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nightrider said:
Not a recent graphic but representative of the time in development.

.
vdOpS8r.jpg
Click to expand...

I guess in 5 years time you could still find games that took longer. The biggest bias in this graph is that it includes all the pre- production and prototyping time from the first idea of the game has been thrown in for all games, except for star citizen where it strictly takes the campaign as the starting point, when they already had most of their concepts nailed, and people were satisfied with it, that's why they signed up. But instead of implementing those concepts they started throwing in more and more shit, creating new concepts, like the useless star marine bullshit, that makes me angry as hell. Why do I need a generic shooter inside a space sim? There are dozens of that,
I've no doubt that the amount of garbage they promised 100 years wouldn't be enough to get it right. It's important to only make your game as big as can be reasonably implemented before you end up in a perpetual re-designing cycle because of the things you first did already start to look dated.
 
ChadD said:
I just want to drop by to KILL a HUGE fucking misrepresentation.

AAA titles take 18-36 months to develop >.<

There are exceptions... which are always due to one of three possible issues;
1) huge game with NEW ENGINE development involved
2) a publisher that is not in a rush... and are "stretching" funds. Some times it is cheaper (up to 2x cheaper) to fund a 10 man project for 5 years then a 50 man project for 2.
3) mismanagement

In Roberts case it is not a new engine issue... as they are using Cry for client side 3D and Amazon for Server side network code.

In Roberts case its not a matter of hiring a small team for longer to save cash.

In Roberts case there is only one possible answer left.
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need to clear up your misrepresentation also ...

star citizen is no longer built on what could be considered anything akin to cryengine . its been stated several time that the entire engine has been pretty much gutted . so pretty much new engine, new net code, new base infrastructure all created to meet the demands of the stretch goals that the backers donated for.

Grand Theft Auto 5 , 7 years for a pc release and a team of 1000 for a typical open world shooter...

36 months is usually your typical console to pc tripe that for far to long littered the pc gaming field with its detritus
 
chaos4u said:
star citizen is no longer built on what could be considered anything akin to cryengine .
Click to expand...

False.

"Lumberyard and StarEngine are both forks from exactly the SAME build of CryEngine.

We stopped taking new builds from Crytek towards the end of 2015. So did Amazon. Because of this the core of the engine that we use is the same one that Amazon use and the switch was painless (I think it took us a day or so of two engineers on the engine team). What runs Star Citizen and Squadron 42 is our heavily modified version of the engine which we have dubbed StarEngine, just now our foundation is Lumberyard not CryEngine. None of our work was thrown away or modified. We switched the like for like parts of the engine from CryEngine to Lumberyard. "

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/364217
 
Yes agreed Lumberyard and StarEngine are both forks of the same build of CryEngine.
Amazon has however had a large active development on it's Lumberyard that have added feature not in the actual fork going forward. Mostly features dealing with server instancing and Twitch integration to name a few.
Star Citizen is on Lumberyard now going forward using AWS and moved off of Google compute
 
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LightsOut41 said:
False.

"Lumberyard and StarEngine are both forks from exactly the SAME build of CryEngine.

We stopped taking new builds from Crytek towards the end of 2015. So did Amazon. Because of this the core of the engine that we use is the same one that Amazon use and the switch was painless (I think it took us a day or so of two engineers on the engine team). What runs Star Citizen and Squadron 42 is our heavily modified version of the engine which we have dubbed StarEngine, just now our foundation is Lumberyard not CryEngine. None of our work was thrown away or modified. We switched the like for like parts of the engine from CryEngine to Lumberyard. "

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/364217
Click to expand...


from that linked source " We switched the like for like parts of the engine from CryEngine to Lumberyard. All of our bespoke work from 64 bit precision, new rendering and planet tech, Item / Entity 2.0, Local Physics Grids, Zone System, Object Containers and so on were unaffected and remain unique to Star Citizen"

so no its not false .. it can no longer be truly considered cryengine .. while yes it was forked from cryengine its barely the same engine.
 
Lumberyard IS CryEngine with improvements. Star Citizen IS running on Lumberyard and no matter how many frankenchanges CIG makes to it, it is not a new engine. Even if CIG tries to call it a cute new name.

Tell CIG to license StarEngine to another company. THEY CAN'T due to the terms of Lumberyard.
 
the Amazon Lumberyard team add CIG are effectively in a tech partnership as the development teams work and share information regularly.
So while CIG is indeed using Lumberyard as it's base for the code now, CIG does have items like
64 bit precision, rendering and planet tech, Item Entity 2.0, Local Physics Grids, Zone System, Object Containers that are not included in Lumberyard.

This just means that the base engine updates from Lumberyard can be upgraded and introduced
into the hybrid additive build that CIG is using.
 
Which is all still running on CryEngine. Lumberyard = CryEngine with improvements

Backers should be pissed that CIG wasted so much time and money trying to modify an engine to fit CR's needs, when they could have written a brand new engine from scratch in a fraction of the time. A brand new engine that most likely would have worked.
 
Agreed Lumberyard = CryEngine with improvements
CIG is using Lumberyard with many additional code additions specific to Star Citizen
CryEngine is an FPS engine and does not have the code items to handle 64 bit precision, planetary tech, Item port, entity 2.0, local and embedded physics grids, object containers, persistence and subsumption.
 
chaos4u said:
need to clear up your misrepresentation also ...

star citizen is no longer built on what could be considered anything akin to cryengine . its been stated several time that the entire engine has been pretty much gutted . so pretty much new engine, new net code, new base infrastructure all created to meet the demands of the stretch goals that the backers donated for.

Grand Theft Auto 5 , 7 years for a pc release and a team of 1000 for a typical open world shooter...

36 months is usually your typical console to pc tripe that for far to long littered the pc gaming field with its detritus
Click to expand...

I don't even know where to start.... my friend do some critical research with an open mind. Then reconsider your position.

No most games don't have 1,000 people working on them. Unless your counting every marketing person, kid answering the phone and intern running network cable around the office.

Seriously though do some in depth research into the development of just your personal favs... you will realise that the crazy 5 6 7 8 year development games where not full bore 500 man on deck projects. Just use a small bit of logic for a min and think about it... if you are suggesting a 1,000 man 5 year project consider how much that would cost if the average salary was just 50k (which is going to be low) 50k a year x 1000 = 50,000,000 x 5 years = 250,000,000 IN NOTHING BUT wages. Now add up the 10s of millions you will have to spend on office space for 1,000 for 5 years.... heating/cooling/electricity. + asset costs including 10s of millions worth of workstations and servers. If you aren't taking my point I'm saying simply LOGIC makes it clear no one is hiring 1,000 people for 5+ years to work on ONE game. Developers that really do have 500-800 people in an office like Bioware Ubisoft ect have them working on more then one project.... and have shipping games generating revenue. (think about it a company like Bioware has 4000+ employees sure but all 4k are not working on X or Y new game, they have 5-6 shipping games 2-3 in full launch in 2-3 year development and 2-3 in early small team dev status such as SC II which was in small team mod for 2-3 years at least)
 
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nightrider said:
Yes agreed Lumberyard and StarEngine are both forks of the same build of CryEngine.
Amazon has however had a large active development on it's Lumberyard that have added feature not in the actual fork going forward. Mostly features dealing with server instancing and Twitch integration to name a few.
Star Citizen is on Lumberyard now going forward using AWS and moved off of Google compute
Click to expand...

So your agreeing then that the work on the engine wasn't done by Cloud Imp.
 
nightrider said:
Agreed Lumberyard = CryEngine with improvements
CIG is using Lumberyard with many additional code additions specific to Star Citizen
CryEngine is an FPS engine and does not have the code items to handle 64 bit precision, planetary tech, Item port, entity 2.0, local and embedded physics grids, object containers, persistence and subsumption.
Click to expand...

So what are you saying... that the moron of a project head picked a stupid engine to build his game on ? :)

I'm sorry but your rambling CI marketing speak. The engine doesn't handle planetary tech ? Give me a freaking break what is that supposed to mean really. If the engine can't handle object containers they have issues. lol Seriously perhaps they should have just switched to Unreal or Unity and shipped the stupid game in a couple years.
 
I do not agree with your above statement.
The engine even being on Lumberyard is indeed a hybrid with lots of code that does not exist in Lumberyard.

Well your just getting into an argument that I'm not going to engage with you on.
What I'm saying is that Lumberyard as a code base is indeed the same,
however CIG is not just using the pure code from Lumberyard and indeed has a large amount of the code that is specific to the use that CIG has for Star Citizen.

Planetary tech is indeed not part of Lumberyard
Explanation is beyond the scope of this discussion

Unreal 4 engine was not ready at the time the project started and Unity ... oh please
 
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nightrider said:
I am not agree to your above statement.
The engine even being on Lumberyard is indeed a hybrid with lots of code that does not exist in Lumberyard.
Click to expand...

DUDE I don't care how freaking Modified it is.... the CORE CODE was created elsewhere. The type of talent needed to create a modern game engine is both rare and stupid expensive. Which is why AAA projects that use a complete ground up engine tend to sure take 5-6 years of work. (before the engine works regular game developers can't do shit... so games that take 5-6 years with a new engine have 2 different development cycles and half way through they FIRE or move to other projects all but the leads on the first group of engine coders and bring in lower cost game builders) Frankly Roberts has NO ONE working for him with that level of talent. Why do you think Amazon paid 50+ million to licence the Cry engine. There is a very small handful of coders in the world that can actually code a working modern engine. The Carmacks, Churchs, Sweeneys of the world are rare and expensive.

Game development these days is mostly handled by low-mid level talent people that understand how to deal with a game engine. Using and engine and creating one are two completely different skill sets. The fact that Roberts is even claiming to be adding major features to the Cry engine is a huge red flag... that he is either full of shit a complete idiot or just really really wasting money.
 
ChadD said:
I don't even know where to start.... my friend do some critical research with an open mind. Then reconsider your position.

No most games don't have 1,000 people working on them. Unless your counting every marketing person, kid answering the phone and intern running network cable around the office.

Seriously though do some in depth research into the development of just your personal favs... you will realise that the crazy 5 6 7 8 year development games where not full bore 500 man on deck projects. Just use a small bit of logic for a min and think about it... if you are suggesting a 1,000 man 5 year project consider how much that would cost if the average salary was just 50k (which is going to be low) 50k a year x 1000 = 50,000,000 x 5 years = 250,000,000 IN NOTHING BUT wages. Now add up the 10s of millions you will have to spend on office space for 1,000 for 5 years.... heating/cooling/electricity. + asset costs including 10s of millions worth of workstations and servers. If you aren't taking my point I'm saying simply LOGIC makes it clear no one is hiring 1,000 people for 5+ years to work on ONE game. Developers that really do have 500-800 people in an office like Bioware Ubisoft ect have them working on more then one project.... and have shipping games generating revenue. (think about it a company like Bioware has 4000+ employees sure but all 4k are not working on X or Y new game, they have 5-6 shipping games 2-3 in full launch in 2-3 year development and 2-3 in early small team dev status such as SC II which was in small team mod for 2-3 years at least)
Click to expand...


I still dont understand star citizen haters need to try and discredit this project .

it is real .

it is being worked on by a team over several studios across the world.

it has talent behind it . ( to claim other wise is pure ignorance or just out right attempts at deception)

if it is a scam it is the worst scam in all of history, because they should of cut and run a long time ago before paying all those people making the game ...
Or oh yeah im sorry, all those people are in on it also .. their all trying to scam me outas my monies ohhh noes !!!!!

so no star citizen is not a scam, and while it was derived from cryengine it no longer shares the same code base and can longer be seriously considered one and the same (you can rail against this all you want but fact is fact just like windows 10 cant be considered windows 2.0. star citizen no longer shares a similar codebase to cryengine.

will start citizen succeed i hope so .

should it be shot down before it has time to succeed or fail ? no i dont think that is fair especially to pc gaming as whole . how are we supposed to have nice things if we dont give them a chance to be built ?

whats closed minded about that ??
 
ChadD said:
The fact that Roberts is even claiming to be adding major features to the Cry engine is a huge red flag... that he is either full of shit a complete idiot or just really really wasting money.
Click to expand...

Actually a lot did have to be added to the engine, such as the ability for handling large persistent servers. That alone must have required a lot of work to the engine. But the rest of what you said is fairly spot on.

What I found amazing is that Prey used Cryengine, yet it looked and felt so similar to Dishonored 2 (ID tech engine). Prey didn't look superb but it felt fairly different. So far Star Citizen looks and feels like Cryengine, much like how you can tell a game is using UE3 from a smaller studio as it has the same shortcomings such as the texture pop ins.
 
Guys, you really need to realize you got fucked and move on, learn your lesson. You got fucked by Chris Roberts on the promise of the most amazing game ever, I got fucked by a stripper who stole most of my money for pills.

It happens. Learn your lesson and move on. He doesn't really love you.
 
This scam will never make it to market simply because of the fact that they can milk so many suckers a month on empty promises.
 
rgMekanic said:
Guys, you really need to realize you got fucked and move on, learn your lesson. You got fucked by Chris Roberts on the promise of the most amazing game ever, I got fucked by a stripper who stole most of my money for pills.
Click to expand...
I think the proper term is you got rolled.
As for learning your lesson, the people who spent the normal cost of a video game ~$60 are out nothing.
Others on the other hand might get an expensive education.
 
Flogger23m said:
Actually a lot did have to be added to the engine, such as the ability for handling large persistent servers. That alone must have required a lot of work to the engine. But the rest of what you said is fairly spot on.

What I found amazing is that Prey used Cryengine, yet it looked and felt so similar to Dishonored 2 (ID tech engine). Prey didn't look superb but it felt fairly different. So far Star Citizen looks and feels like Cryengine, much like how you can tell a game is using UE3 from a smaller studio as it has the same shortcomings such as the texture pop ins.
Click to expand...

The SC boosters don't want to hear it but the bottom line is Roberts picked a terrible engine to build a MMO space sim on. There is a good reason you don't see a ton of Cry engine MMOs. :) His priorities for an engine where either skewed in the completely wrong direction. Or he simply choose an engine that would get more people excited about throwing him free cash. I know people hear something like Unity or Hero engine and think crap... but starting with an engine that has the net code end of things nailed makes a hell of a lot more sense if your planning to build an online game. It would have been easier to spiffy up the looks then try and reinvent a pretty engine with shit / non existent net code.
 
There aren't a "ton" of MMOs being released currently period, but there are a few CryEngine MMOs so not sure what point you thought you were making with that comment.
 
People always bitch about cig, yet people are still giving them money, so ... Anyway. It's done when it is done. Let go of expectations and just let them make the game. Who cares if it takes 5-10 years. This is one of the problems of crowdfunding, backseat drivers, much like executive meddling, except with consumers
 
LightsOut41 said:
Yes it does and we've detailed how.

Now you are just trolling. How much are in in for, commando? Thousands? Tens of thousands?
Click to expand...


not trolling just trying to keep it factual yet you all want to misconstrue, out right lie, and fabricate details.

and yes i have already stated i have backed this game and even if i didnt i would still be in here pointing out the fallacies that continue to be purported as fact ..
 
hexamon said:
It's October of 2014, hey guys why don't you buy this - https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14199-Interstellar-Splendor-The-890-JUMP It's a $600 USD luxury space yacht.

It's almost 2018. I wonder what the status on that is? Let's see!

Haven't started yet. People defend this game. LOL.
Click to expand...


For your reference that ship is now $890 directly from CIG :D

I'm not a large whale in Star Citizen by any means, but I've spend my share and I've gotten my value of enjoyment out of the game and the community (minus the last year with patch 2.6.x which have been horrible).f
 
mope54 said:
There aren't a "ton" of MMOs being released currently period, but there are a few CryEngine MMOs so not sure what point you thought you were making with that comment.
Click to expand...

That if your trying to attract the type of talent required to create proper net code from scratch... to a company funded by donations. Perhaps you would be one hell of a lot wiser to start with an engine that provides proper net code first. Games like Archage and mech warrior both had large STABLE bank rolls and no issues attracting the 150k+ type coders required to make that happen. If you are such a person who can work pretty much anywhere you want, why would you choose to go to the crowd funded company over a developer being published by a big name producing licenced IP type stuff.

If roberts was a game developer that ever concerned himself with the business end of things for even a second he would have realised he would be better off going the other way around and prioritising the basics over graphical flash when he was selecting an engine.
 
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